Dirk for MVP - Page 12 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

EastDallasCowboy · 04-11-2006, 04:53 PM

If those are his particular criteria, then I guess he makes sense.

Dirk isn't a particularly good passer or defender, although I would argue he most certainly does open up shots for team-mates.

I just disagree with his criteria.

Five-ofan · 04-11-2006, 05:01 PM

The thing is, dirk IS a good passer and he is at least as good defensively as lebron and kobe have been this year while being light years better than nash.

sixeightmkw · 04-11-2006, 05:05 PM

I just want them to win, and win, and get the championship and then let Dirk get the Finals MVP. But they will probably give that to Jho or Terry or something.

sixeightmkw · 04-11-2006, 05:07 PM

This is how Dirk gets the MVP.

Mavs go undefeated next year
Dirk shoots 100% for the year in FG% and tp%
Dirk averages 20 assistsper game
Dirk averages 40 rebounds per game
Dirk averages 10 steals a game
The Mavs seep every team on the road to the championship
Dirk sucks the d*ck of all media members that vote for MVP>

EastDallasCowboy · 04-11-2006, 05:08 PM

I'm not going to support the guys position, I'm just saying that based upon those criteria I can somewhat understand where he's coming from.

Five-ofan · 04-11-2006, 05:10 PM

Thats wrong though. There is no possible definition by which elton brand or even steve nash for that matter should be ahead of dirk nowitzki for mvp.

aexchange · 04-11-2006, 05:40 PM

Bucher's been involved in one too many love making sessions with Kobe.

He is the world's biggest tool at BSPN, now surpassing Chad Ford.

Locked_Up_Tonight · 04-11-2006, 06:08 PM

What does BSPN stand for again?

NXperience · 04-11-2006, 06:59 PM

NBA.com is asking for our MVP'(also all the other awards) where you should also wrote a case why. I just sent one in but I don't think it will be shown ^^

"I think Nowitzki is the MVP of the league because of a few reasons. First of all he is leading the same Mavericks as last year minus Michael Finlay plus a few Rookies and Diop to a better record. Even so most of the predictions made by so called experts had them in the 3rd spot in their Division alone. Second he has done that as the clear leader of the team that also had a lot of injuries to battle. I think only the Rockets have been hit harder. He does this in one of the stronger Divisions in the much harder Western Conference. Also Nowitzki's defense has gotten a lot better and his passing gets overseen all the time. Also Dirk does put the team before everything else playing team ball in the process which is a reason why his stats aren't as eye worthy as maybe Kobe's still he is one of the if not THE matchup nightmare in the NBA.

I think his image which is still often known as a soft european is hurting him (which by no means apply anymore) also that he is no spectacular dunker as a lot of other people is a reason why some people will not vote for him. But in my opinion and I think a lot of people think like me Dirk is the MVP of this season. He put the Team on the back and is battling for the first place in West. Even if he doesn't win it which I think will happen (ESPN and much of the other media is pushing all buttons for LeBron who will win it) I know that he is the unsung hero of this season."

I think I forgot so many other points I wanted to point out but I'm tired now =D

dude1394 · 04-11-2006, 07:25 PM

Bucher may have shown himself to be one of the most idiotic "analysts" I have ever seen. When you are more stupid than Randy Galloway you are really PRETTY stupid. Leaving dirk off initially was stupid, calling Josh the mavs MVP is close to criminal.

So Josh went down Nov26. His last game was against the grizzlies, the next game he played was against Dec 12th against the lakers. Both losses by the way.

Okay so he missed 8 games. The mavs went 6-2. Losses to Milwaukee and the Spurs.

Then he goes out again Mar 12 against Kings, comes back March 31 against Magic (both losses). Only this time he takes 3 extra of the top 8 players. Mavs go 5-4. Even with half of his lineup out Dirk gets the team over .500.

Now what do we think those records would have been without dirk for the 6-2 and with Dirk, Griffin, Devin, KVH out.

Boucher is a complete stinking idiot. Galloway and the other fella aren't much better as they lumped the 6-2 and the 5-4 together as if the only thing going was josh being out so the mavs went 11-6. Which is still better than the rapist can do. Sheesh...

mary · 04-11-2006, 07:36 PM

Kobe would vote for himself.

What a guy.

Quote:

Asked for whom he'd vote with an MVP ballot, Bryant said: "I'd vote for myself."

http://ocregister.com/ocregister/spo...le_1095415.php

V2M · 04-11-2006, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mary

Kobe would vote for himself.

What a guy.

http://ocregister.com/ocregister/spo...le_1095415.php

I would've been surprised if that weren't the case!

orangedays · 04-11-2006, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mary

Kobe would vote for himself.

What a guy.

What a guy indeed.

Someone should send him a consolatory fruit basket when the Lakers are knocked out of the first round...for the next 5 years.

Captain Disaster · 04-11-2006, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Bucher may have shown himself to be one of the most idiotic "analysts" I have ever seen. When you are more stupid than Randy Galloway you are really PRETTY stupid. Leaving dirk off initially was stupid, calling Josh the mavs MVP is close to criminal.

So Josh went down Nov26. His last game was against the grizzlies, the next game he played was against Dec 12th against the lakers. Both losses by the way.

Okay so he missed 8 games. The mavs went 6-2. Losses to Milwaukee and the Spurs.

Then he goes out again Mar 12 against Kings, comes back March 31 against Magic (both losses). Only this time he takes 3 extra of the top 8 players. Mavs go 5-4. Even with half of his lineup out Dirk gets the team over .500.

Now what do we think those records would have been without dirk for the 6-2 and with Dirk, Griffin, Devin, KVH out.

Boucher is a complete stinking idiot. Galloway and the other fella aren't much better as they lumped the 6-2 and the 5-4 together as if the only thing going was josh being out so the mavs went 11-6. Which is still better than the rapist can do. Sheesh...

Amen!

V2M · 04-11-2006, 09:18 PM

Head-2-head records of all MVP candidates thus far:

1. Billups (10-4) vs Nash (2-0), Dirk (1-1), Kobe (1-1), Brand (2-0), Wade (2-1), Bron (2-1)

2. Dirk (10-5) vs Nash (2-1), Kobe (1-2), Brand (3-0), Wade (2-0), Bron (1-1), Billups (1-1)

3. Nash (9-7) vs Dirk (1-2), Kobe (3-0), Brand (2-2), Wade (2-0), Bron (1-1), Billups (0-2)

4. Kobe (7-9) vs Nash (0-3), Dirk (2-1), Brand (2-2), Wade (1-1), Bron (1-1), Billups (1-1)

4. Bron (7-9) vs Nash (1-1), Dirk (1-1), Kobe (1-1), Brand (1-1), Wade (2-2), Billups (1-2)

6. Wade (6-9) vs Nash (1-1), Dirk (0-2), Kobe (1-1), Brand (1-1), Bron (2-2), Billups (1-2)

7. Brand (6-11) vs Nash (2-2), Dirk (0-3), Kobe (2-2), Wade (1-1), Bron (1-1), Billups (0-2)

sike · 04-11-2006, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V2M

Head-2-head records of all MVP candidates thus far:

1. Billups (10-4) vs Nash (2-0), Dirk (1-1), Kobe (1-1), Brand (2-0), Wade (2-1), Bron (2-1)

2. Dirk (10-5) vs Nash (2-1), Kobe (1-2), Brand (3-0), Wade (2-0), Bron (1-1), Billups (1-1)

3. Nash (9-7) vs Dirk (1-2), Kobe (3-0), Brand (2-2), Wade (2-0), Bron (1-1), Billups (0-2)

4. Kobe (7-9) vs Nash (0-3), Dirk (2-1), Brand (2-2), Wade (1-1), Bron (1-1), Billups (1-1)

4. Bron (7-9) vs Nash (1-1), Dirk (1-1), Kobe (1-1), Brand (1-1), Wade (2-2), Billups (1-2)

6. Wade (6-9) vs Nash (1-1), Dirk (0-2), Kobe (1-1), Brand (1-1), Bron (2-2), Billups (1-2)

7. Brand (6-11) vs Nash (2-2), Dirk (0-3), Kobe (2-2), Wade (1-1), Bron (1-1), Billups (0-2)

I wonder how it would look if we could see which team has lost the most games from starters due to injury this season?

V2M · 04-11-2006, 09:26 PM

Team Records of all 7 MVP candidates thus far:

1. Billups (62-15)
2. Dirk (59-19)
3. Nash (50-26)
4. Wade (50-27)
5. Bron (47-30)
6. Brand (44-33)
7. Kobe (41-37)

V2M · 04-11-2006, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

I wonder how it would look if we could see which team has lost the most games from starters due to injury this season?

Good point, Sike. I'll see if I can find that info somewhere. If someone knows of a site I could research, I'd appreciate it. I normally check out only sports.yahoo.com & nba.com.

V2M · 04-11-2006, 09:34 PM

Efficiency rankings of all 7 MVP candidates thus far:

1. Lebron (29.82)
2. Brand (28.61)
3. Kobe (27.46)
4. Wade (27.3)
5. Dirk (27.26)
6. Nash (24.24)
7. Billups (21.58)

Murphy3 · 04-11-2006, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastDallasCowboy

If those are his particular criteria, then I guess he makes sense.

Dirk isn't a particularly good passer or defender, although I would argue he most certainly does open up shots for team-mates.

I just disagree with his criteria.

I don't think anyone on the coaching staff or the team would have a problem with Dirk's passing abilities.

EastDallasCowboy, you're like the natinal media... It takes you several years before you catch up with reality. You base your opinions on the old reality when things have clearly changed.

V2M · 04-11-2006, 09:46 PM

All-Star team-mates for the MVP candidates:

1. Dirk (0)
1. Kobe (0)
1. Lebron (0)
1. Brand (0)
5. Wade (1 - Shaq)
5. Nash (1 - Marion)
7. Billups (3 - Rip, Sheed, Ben)

MavsX · 04-11-2006, 09:53 PM

it should NOT be nash again, that is BS, they cant give it two years in a row.

Murphy3 · 04-11-2006, 09:55 PM

The Clippers and Lakers record should knock them out. That leaves Dirk, James, Wade, Nash, and Billups. Billups, Wade, and Nash.. Well, an argument can be made that none of them are the clear cut best player on their team. That rules them out. Dirk vs Lebron...

V2M · 04-11-2006, 10:00 PM

Nestle Crunch Time Stat (measure of clutch time performances!) for the MVP candidates thus far:

1. Dirk (310)
2. Lebron (297)
3. Billups (283)
4. Nash (282)
5. Kobe (251)
6. Wade (N/A)
6. Brand (N/A)

Wade & Brand were outside of the top 15 in the league and hence I couldn't find their rating points.

NXperience · 04-11-2006, 10:04 PM

I don't know if these stats are worth anything but here are the winning % of Divisions from the players with and without their team:

Dirk: 0,5994 (w/o Mavs 0,5603)
Billups: 0,5675 (w/o Detroit 0,5081)
Lebron: 0,5675 (w/o Cavs 0,557)
Nash: 0,5352 (w/o Suns 0,5045)
Brand: 0,5352 (w/o Clippers 0,5263)
Kobe: 0,5352 (w/o Lakers 0,5375)
Wade: 0,4375 (w/o Heat 0,3833)

These Stats are from before todays games (so they are not including SA and Memphis wins)

For reference:
Atlantic: 0,4242
Northwest: 0,4362

V2M · 04-11-2006, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

The Clippers and Lakers record should knock them out. That leaves Dirk, James, Wade, Nash, and Billups. Billups, Wade, and Nash.. Well, an argument can be made that none of them are the clear cut best player on their team. That rules them out. Dirk vs Lebron...

I agree... for anyone with an iota of brain (i.e. anyone not working for ESPN!) could see this as a 2 horse race between Dirk & Lebron.

For those who care for Stats more than the Wins, it otta' be Lebron. And for those who care for Wins, especially those obtained in the tougher conference, the toughest division and amidst a myriad injuries to team-mates, the clear favorite otta' be Dirk.

dirno2000 · 04-11-2006, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V2M

Efficiency rankings of all 7 MVP candidates thus far:

1. Lebron (29.82)
2. Brand (28.61)
3. Kobe (27.46)
4. Wade (27.3)
5. Dirk (27.26)
6. Nash (24.24)
7. Billups (21.58)

Where are you getting these? Hollingers page on ESPN lists them as follows:
1. Labron (28.42, 1st)
2. Dirk (28.02, 2nd)
3. Wade (27.96, 3rd)
4. Kobe (27.97, 4th)
5. Brand (26.49, 6th)
6. Billups (23.65, 11th)
7. Nash (23.26, 14th)

orangedays · 04-11-2006, 10:12 PM

Player PERs 'in the clutch' through Mar. 15 (per 82games.com):

Rank, Name, Rating

1. Nash - 55.1
4. Nowitzki - 44.7
7. James - 38.9
24. Wade - 29.2
35. Bryant - 25.3
36. Billups - 25.3
x. Brand (not in top-50)

Overall Clutch Player Rating (taking into consideration Player defense 'in the clutch'):

3. Nash - 35.4
4. Wade - 33.7
5. Nowitzki - 32.3
8. James - 27.8
21. Bryant - 19.0
26. Billups - 17.0

V2M · 04-11-2006, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NXperience

I don't know if these stats are worth anything but here are the winning % of Divisions from the players with and without their team:

Dirk: 0,5994 (w/o Mavs 0,5603)
Billups: 0,5675 (w/o Detroit 0,5081)
Lebron: 0,5675 (w/o Cavs 0,557)
Nash: 0,5352 (w/o Suns 0,5045)
Brand: 0,5352 (w/o Clippers 0,5263)
Kobe: 0,5352 (w/o Lakers 0,5375)
Wade: 0,4375 (w/o Heat 0,3833)

These Stats are from before todays games (so they are not including SA and Memphis wins)

For reference:
Atlantic: 0,4242
Northwest: 0,4362

This clearly validates that Dirk played in the toughest of all Divisions... I wonder if that counts for anything for the stupid ESPN analysts!

dude1394 · 04-11-2006, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V2M

This clearly validates that Dirk played in the toughest of all Divisions... I wonder if that counts for anything for the stupid ESPN analysts!

Bucher doesn't have the brain cells to look up stats. Let alone understand any of them.

V2M · 04-11-2006, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

Where are you getting these? Hollingers page on ESPN lists them as follows:
1. Labron (28.42, 1st)
2. Dirk (28.02, 2nd)
3. Wade (27.96, 3rd)
4. Kobe (27.97, 4th)
5. Brand (26.49, 6th)
6. Billups (23.65, 11th)
7. Nash (23.26, 14th)

I took 'em from nba.com. But I'd rather go with your findings now. They make more sense.

NXperience · 04-11-2006, 10:19 PM

YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG

05-06 CLE 77 77 42.9 .480 .338 .739 1.0 6.1 7.1 6.7 1.58 .84 3.31 2.30 31.7

05-06 DAL 78 78 38.2 .481 .412 .898 1.4 7.6 9.0 2.8 .69 1.05 1.92 2.00 26.5

I know the formatting is a bit bad but LeBron has not clearly the better numbers. He loses in every catogery beside PPG,Assists and Steals BUT he plays 4,7 mins more then Dirk and is taking 4 more shots

orangedays · 04-11-2006, 10:26 PM

It should also be noted that while Dirk's game is further from the basket than LeBron's - Dirk is equally efficient (if not more so) offensively.

While 83% of Dirk's attempts are classified as "jumpers" (compared to LeBron's 64%) - Dirk's FG% is .481 compared to LeBron's .480 and Dirk's eFG% is equal to that of LeBron's at .516. Give Dirk 4 more shots a game (LeBron gets 23.2 FGA v. Dirk's 19.3) and he will be scoring just as much, if not more, than LeBron.

V2M · 04-11-2006, 10:28 PM

Does anyone know all the MVP voters and their email addresses? I could consolidate this and mail it out to all of 'em ?!

If we can influence 1 vote, I think it's well worth the effort!

orangedays · 04-11-2006, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

Where are you getting these? Hollingers page on ESPN lists them as follows:

1. Labron (28.42, 1st)
2. Dirk (28.02, 2nd)
3. Wade (27.96, 3rd)
4. Kobe (27.97, 4th)
5. Brand (26.49, 6th)
6. Billups (23.65, 11th)
7. Nash (23.26, 14th)

The latest PER calculations have the following:

1. James - 28.6
2. Wade - 28.3
3. Nowitzki - 28.2
4. Bryant - 27.7
6. Brand - 26.7
11. Billups - 23.8
13. Nash - 23.6

KnickerBlogger.net updates the numbers after every game.

orangedays · 04-11-2006, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orangedays

It should also be noted that while Dirk's game is further from the basket than LeBron's - Dirk is equally efficient (if not more so) offensively.

While 83% of Dirk's attempts are classified as "jumpers" (compared to LeBron's 64%) - Dirk's FG% is .481 compared to LeBron's .480 and Dirk's eFG% is equal to that of LeBron's at .516. Give Dirk 4 more shots a game (LeBron gets 23.2 FGA v. Dirk's 19.3) and he will be scoring just as much, if not more, than LeBron.

Latest numbers support my point even better:

Nowitzki

eFG%: 51.7%
TS%: 58.8%

James

eFG%: 51.6%
TS%: 56.9%

dirno2000 · 04-11-2006, 10:44 PM

I've always felt that, all things being equal, the media will go with the most compelling story. It's in their nature and, IMO, it explains why Nash beat out Shaq last year. The problem for Dirk (and the Mavs for that matter) is that we're the pre 97' Utah Jazz. The heir apparent winning the MVP in his third season is a much sexier story than Dirk winning it. After all, he’s just a low key hard worker who has done nothing but get better every season.

I think Labron is a worthy candidate but I hate the way it’s going to be decided.

rakesh.s · 04-11-2006, 10:45 PM

Dan Patrick is another retard that doesn't even bring up Dirk's name in the MVP discussion.

dirno2000 · 04-11-2006, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orangedays

The latest PER calculations have the following:

1. James - 28.6
2. Wade - 28.3
3. Nowitzki - 28.2
4. Bryant - 27.7
6. Brand - 26.7
11. Billups - 23.8
13. Nash - 23.6

KnickerBlogger.net updates the numbers after every game.

Slight difference but I'm going to go with the guy who invented the metric

NXperience · 04-11-2006, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V2M

Does anyone know all the MVP voters

I second that question ... not to send them e-mails but I'm interested who is all egliable to vote. It can't be just the ESPN morons (how many of them can vote?)
I just hope that all the other voters know something about the game and appreciate what Dirk has done.