2-5: Mavs lose to Lakers - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Silk Smoov · 11-12-2008, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

I just saw the 4th quarter tonight, and I saw Dirk live up to his national reputation of non-clutchness. He should be automatic 1on 1 against Pau. And I don't care about who's got what hot-hand, Dirk should not be passing to Stack for the clutch shots after failing to get his own. And what a stupid foul on Pau. A push in the back like you are going to maybe get away with it? That's why people see him as weak. Wrap him up, crash down on him. Commit to the foul, man, like you actually want to obtain the end result that is favorable to you. Dirk was a weenie and we lost because of it.

I also saw a LA team that is very hungry to win, even though it's 6 games into the season. And an LA team thats been obtaining those wins in the 4th quarters. And they did it to Dallas tonight.

I also saw Carlisle out of timeouts, didn't I? Wasn't he so much better than Avery the other night because he saved a timeout?

The perfect post above.....Once again, why do people give Dirk excuses after excuses. Dirk called out his team, then did NOT show up. How dare he call out his players and be the one who does not put forth an effort to win this game. Dirk was content to let Stack and Green try to win this game. Dirk did NOTHING to try to match Kobe on his run. Dirk did not even want the ball, and put Stack in a bad position to get his shot rejected into the 6th row. To top it off, he shots an airball to try to tie the game. No, here wait, he topped that off with a silly ass foul on Gasol to foul out of the game. Looked to me that he wanted out.

Carlisle is also killing the Mavs with his last 4 minutes of 3rd quarter substitutions. He cant afford to sit his main players the last of the 3rd quarter against teams like that. He has to put his best players on the floor to close EVERY quarter. This game was lost the last 4 minutes of the 3rd quarter. After that, it was Kobe time, and it was over.

Lakers did a very good job of guarding Jet the last three minutes of the game. They refused to let Jet get off his shots, knowing that Dirk would nut up as usual.

nowhereman · 11-12-2008, 12:38 AM

4 points from terry (2 were when the game was basically out of reach) in the 2nd half. Gerald green didn't do anything. Dirk airballed a 3, fumbled the ball on a set play and threw it to stack in the corner who didn't have a prayer to get a shot off, missed a long J, commited a stupid foul on D, didn't contest a layup. Dirk played poorly again in the 4th quarter. And even though he's had a couple of games with big numbers, teams are going on big runs and we aren't able to get the ball to Dirk to stop those runs in the 4th Q.

it's disturbing. the team is clearly not where it should be psychologically. And you don't get better by blowing 4th quarter leads, and losing close games, as the mavs have now consecutively done against denver, the clippers, and the lakers. there is no positive spin. if one thing goes well (stack plays great, terry and green have a hot start), any number of other things goes wrong (turnovers, missed free throws).

I am sick of this team finding a way to lose. I would like them to find a way to win.

thurst0509 · 11-12-2008, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

The Lakers are hellspawn; their fans devil worshippers...

Truth.

Seriously though, where the hell do they come from? I bet 10% of the arena was wearing yellow and purple and every single one of them was acting like an obnoxious d-bag. I expect it with nearby division rivals like the Rockets and Spurs but I can never understand where all the Lakers fans come from...

nowhereman · 11-12-2008, 12:42 AM

also, how many times are the mavs going to blow pick and roll coverage?

that absolutely killed us this game. Play after play, a guy got a clean shot. The guys seem like they are hedging too much and are too slow getting back. This gave the lakers a ton of 2 on 1s in the paint. I do not think it should be this hard to get down your P&R coverage, new coach or not.

chumdawg · 11-12-2008, 12:44 AM

This is starting to get embarrassing.

LonghornDub · 11-12-2008, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

This is starting to get embarrassing.

The Mavs' inability to close out games, or the behavior of some of the D-M.com posters?

chumdawg · 11-12-2008, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

The Mavs' inability to close out games, or the behavior of some of the D-M.com posters?

Chacun a son gout.

LonghornDub · 11-12-2008, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Chacun a son gout.

Fair enough.

fluid.forty.one · 11-12-2008, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

This is starting to get embarrassing.

I'm so gloomy this year.

chumdawg · 11-12-2008, 01:08 AM

This team is in desperate need of some good news.

Windmill360 · 11-12-2008, 01:20 AM

The entire Dallas sports world is in need of some good news.

LonghornDub · 11-12-2008, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

This team is in desperate need of some good news.

If they keep losing games, they're going to get some sort of news before February. Who knows if it will be considered "good" or not.

dirno2000 · 11-12-2008, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windmill360°

The entire Dallas sports world is in need of some good news.

How about a healthy Tony Romo...is that something that would interest you?

dirno2000 · 11-12-2008, 01:56 AM

Stack's defense on Kobe in the last five minutes was as good as it gets. Just an unbelievable show of heart.

Really nothing to say about Dirk that hasn't been said. This was the kind of win that could have instantly installed confidence and possible started a run. To get that kind of effort of of him was more than disappointing. I hate to even say effort because I'm sure he tried. He's just so f'in timid at times that it's infuriating. What can you do, he is what he is.

bernardos70 · 11-12-2008, 02:03 AM

What did Stack do exactly so great? His jumpshot was falling?

LonghornDub · 11-12-2008, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bernardos70

What did Stack do exactly so great? His jumpshot was falling?

Yeah, he hit some shots, but more importantly he D'ed up Kobe like a man. It really was an impressive sight.

blessednegr0 · 11-12-2008, 02:06 AM

Ok.... Well here it is... I really laid back and let my mind cool off... and here is what I gathered from teh game.

1.Stack definitely gets his name put here. Played with phenomenal heart and really worked his ass off. This game was one of his better games we have seen in a while. However, I am still under the impression that he is washed up. We will not get that type of performance from him night in and night out. He is best at the end of the bench, situational line ups, or a trade piece.

2. GG has HEART. He played his ass off and was a real spark for the team. When josh gets back him and JET should be our 6 and 7th men.

3. Although Antoine Wright has been a liability on offense thus far. He is definitely what we need out there on defense with the 1st string. As he gets more PT he will get more comfortable. Did anyone else not see him contesting every Kobe shot and staying on his feet? Really smart kid. I hope Carslie really lets him get more PT.

4. We need more from our bench. However, I did like how we didnt really see Bass at the 5 tonight. Our centers played very well.

5. Kidd makes this team. He is not old, he is not washed up. He is probably our most complete player. We have the talent to contend.

6. When Josh gets back I am hoping to see something along the lines of Kidd/Wright/Josh/Howard/Damp.

And in order off the bench it should be JET, GG, Diop, Bass, Shawne William or Stack, JJB.

7. I really dont like Jason Terry at the two spot. Atleast starting with Kidd. He does not compliment him well. Off the bench he would be great and reduce some of these runs we give up at the end of quarters and halves.

dirno2000 · 11-12-2008, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bernardos70

What did Stack do exactly so great? His jumpshot was falling?

His late game defense on Kobe gave us a chance to come away with a win. Under a minute left and up by two they were trying to get the ball to Kobe to ice the game, only Stack did such a good job denying the ball that Fisher took and off balance jump shot. Of course Dirk let Gasol get inside position then gave up a 3-pt play and that was the ballgame.

rabbitproof · 11-12-2008, 02:24 AM

Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory!!

The inability to close quarters out is huge because it sets the tone for the 4th quarter. Shows discipline and desire. We don't have it. We don't draw fouls. We shoot jump shots. We don't clear the glass.

Stack, Damp and Kidd all played inspired. Funny how they're our oldest guys. The other group of vets seem to be in a funk (Dirk, JET, Diop) and the last group is still relatively unknown (Gerald, Wright, Bass). Bass could go either in group 2 or 3, I suppose.

Dirk can still be a leading man but damn if he just doesn't fall apart in some games. This game and the Cleveland one. But offense aside, his defense is killing me this year. Nene's gone off on him, Gasol showed him up, Al Thorton went off in the 4th on Sunday.. not sure if the Olympics have him gassed or if the defensive schemes are exposing him more than in Avery's but he's been sloppy and poor. More infuriating than the Gasol foul IMO was how he let Ariza grab the board off the missed FT, slip out the corner and punk us for the two-hand dunk, four-point play and two-point lead.

I want to say it will get better (I think the offense will come) but it is said the weakness you see in others is the weakness you see in yourself. I'm not sure if Dirk's comment about effort and leaving it on the court reflect something going on in his headspace.

Mavs Rule · 11-12-2008, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blessednegr0

6. When Josh gets back I am hoping to see something along the lines of Kidd/Wright/Josh/Howard/Damp.

And in order off the bench it should be JET, GG, Diop, Bass, Shawne William or Stack, JJB.

I guess Dirk got moved down to the D league?

ghazi · 11-12-2008, 02:32 AM

This team is such a teaser though, *sigh*. That we were able to hang with the Lakers (and have a lead for the most part) for lets say... 40 minutes? (and I dunno if it was due to hot shooting either, our FG% ended up being pretty low) gives me an idea that we are right there w/ the elite... but this happened last year, kept losing close games, and look how the playoffs turned out.

The last 4 games v the Lakers... we had 4th quarter leads in 3 of them... you almost get a feeling that we're good enough to play to a standstill with the lakers for 40-44 minutes, but not good enough to beat them over the course of a 48 minute game.

Dubious.

Regarding tonight's heart/effort, I doubt we'll see us get up like this any time soon. and I don't think it's healthy to play at a high intensity level for all 82 games anyway. @ CHicago on Thursday will be difficult, especially considering recent TNT trends... Kidd v rose!

blessednegr0 · 11-12-2008, 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavs Rule

I guess Dirk got moved down to the D league?

hahahah good catch man.

my fault

Kidd/Wright/Howard/Dirk/Damp

ghazi · 11-12-2008, 02:46 AM

If I hadn't seen a game of basketball before the Mavs 08-09 season, I'd say Dirk is an average player.

Dude needs to step it up, I guess he got off to a slow start last year as well... actually for the first 50 games until his game elevated with the Kidd trade.

This team needs a lot of players clicking at the same time to be good... and we've been given no indication that that sort of consistency will come anytime soon.

Thespiralgoeson · 11-12-2008, 02:47 AM

Dirk looks significantly slower this season. That's why it always pisses me off that he insists on playing overseas every offseason. His body needs rest, especially now than he's in the latter half of his career.

blessednegr0 · 11-12-2008, 02:57 AM

Seriously though...

Why is no one talking about Antoine Wrights defense on Kobe?

I thought it was amazing.. He barely needed help from the big men. He was contesting him very well

rabbitproof · 11-12-2008, 03:07 AM

Dirk's FTAs through the years:

2004-2005 9.076923077
2005-2006 7.382716049
2006-2007 7.064102564
2007-2008 7.064935065
2008-2009 6.5

Wrong way, my man.

Same trend with boarding.

From 9.7 to 9.0 to 8.9 to 8.6 to 7.2 this year! There's some quantitative data to back up this forum's qualitative observations. New PG. New coach. Not sure what's to do. Doctor Holger?

DevinHarriswillstart · 11-12-2008, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

This team is in desperate need of some good news.

Gerald Green is definitely good news. His stat lines are getting into Josh Howard territory. Maybe we can trade Howard if he keeps it up.

Kidd is also great news. He is the best player on our team right now, hands down.

A trade of some kind still needs to be made. I'm gonna say it, and say it and say it again until it happens. A trade is necessary. Keep Kidd, Green and Dirk and trade everyone else as far as I'm concerned.

ghazi · 11-12-2008, 03:19 AM

Keep the core, trade some spares (Stack/bass/George) for Vince Carter.

basketballgirl25 · 11-12-2008, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghazi

Keep the core, trade some spares (Stack/bass/George) for Vince Carter.

now why would NJ want to trade Vince Carterfor Stack, Bass, and George? I like the trade I read about that could happen with the Bobcats better

basketballgirl25 · 11-12-2008, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghazi

Keep the core, trade some spares (Stack/bass/George) for Vince Carter.

now why would NJ want to trade Vince Carterfor Stack, Bass, and George? I like the trade I read about that could happen with the Bobcats better

jthig32 · 11-12-2008, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

Dirk's FTAs through the years:

2004-2005 9.076923077
2005-2006 7.382716049
2006-2007 7.064102564
2007-2008 7.064935065
2008-2009 6.5

Wrong way, my man.

Same trend with boarding.

From 9.7 to 9.0 to 8.9 to 8.6 to 7.2 this year! There's some quantitative data to back up this forum's qualitative observations. New PG. New coach. Not sure what's to do. Doctor Holger?

This year is disturbing, but those prior years a lot of that can be chalked up to the slowing down of the Mavs' pace. Fewer possessions means fewer opportunities for free throws and rebounds.

Usually Lurkin · 11-12-2008, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

The perfect post above.....Once again, why do people give Dirk excuses after excuses. Dirk called out his team, then did NOT show up. How dare he call out his players and be the one who does not put forth an effort to win this game. Dirk was content to let Stack and Green try to win this game. Dirk did NOTHING to try to match Kobe on his run. Dirk did not even want the ball, and put Stack in a bad position to get his shot rejected into the 6th row. To top it off, he shots an airball to try to tie the game. No, here wait, he topped that off with a silly ass foul on Gasol to foul out of the game. Looked to me that he wanted out.

This is quite a bit further than I'd go. Dirk was trying, he just wasn't getting it done. He didn't pass off to Stack as soon as he got the ball, he passed off after trying and failing to get around Pau Gasol. Whatever you want to say about Dirk's natural tendency on defense, Pau's nature is 10X worse. He couldn't score on Pau freaking Gasol last night during crunchtime. What's up with that? And the airball? I don't think that was lack of effort. He took the shot in the first place, which also shows that he wanted to take the shot. I thought he got fouled - somebody who has it can watch the replay. In any case, he couldn't get the successful shot off past Pau (again). But (if there was no foul) how often does Dirk shoot an airball at that point in the game? That's out of the ordinary. But he did get back down the court faster than the outlet pass and broke up the easy layup. That was effort and that was heart and that was desire, and that was a great play by the big man. And the goofy foul on Pau at the other end - that looked like a frustration decision.

Dirk does look slower and a little out of it. Is Carlisle treating him like one of the younger guys in practice, rather than as one of the older guys? Is Dirk just trying to coast through the first half of the season? Is Dirk losing some of his edge? WHo knows, but to me it looked like he wanted it last night, and he tried for it, but he just couldn't get it.

jthig32 · 11-12-2008, 09:01 AM

In regards to Dirk, let me first say that yes, the effort on defense seems to be lacking. He just looks like he's lost the ability to jump, and he looks tired all the time. It's a little disturbing.

However, on offense, let's take it easy on questioning his effort. He took more shots than anyone else. He took shots he normally makes (for the most part). He also hit some ridiculous shots and had some serious contact go uncalled in the first half.

Beyond that, let's remember that the Laker's bit this year is to harass the opponent's best player. TMac had a whopping three points the other night in their game. They're holding the other team's best player well under their normal performances. And it's all well and good to say that Dirk should take Pau. Historically he has. But the Lakers were sending an extra defender at him every time he floored the ball. And the end of the day if he hits, say 4 more of his shots, we win and he has a pretty good game.

And regarding my outlook on "moral victories":

Here's my thing. I don't see what's wrong with looking objectively at how the team played. Yes the win is the ultimately the most important. But if we beat Charlotte 70-69 with terrible shooting and a bunch of turnovers, I'm going to be happy we won but very unhappy with how we played. So I don't understand what's wrong with having the opposite view of last night. Obviously troubling trends continued last night, but at the end of the day we competed with the concensus best team in the West without one or our three best players.

Dirkadirkastan · 11-12-2008, 09:40 AM

I'm now fully convinced that Dirk definitely has some Samson in him. He really needs to grow the hair back.

Flacolaco · 11-12-2008, 09:46 AM

After a short amount of sleep, I've decided that I am disturbed by Dirks play, but over all proud of the Mavericks last night. I really thought they were going to get completely blown out of the gym by midway through the second quarter.

Usually Lurkin · 11-12-2008, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

And it's all well and good to say that Dirk should take Pau. Historically he has. But the Lakers were sending an extra defender at him every time he floored the ball. .

I don't know about the whole game, but they didn't for at least a couple very key sequences late in the 4th. It was Dirk trying to take Pau 1 on 1, and Dirk losing. I think Pau did better in those situations than he has in the past, and Dirk did worse in those situations than he has in the past. I chalk it up to higher confidence and stronger will on the part of Pau - a result of playing on a team that has a lot of confidence and will, and a lowered confidence and will on the part of Dirk - a result of playing on a team that has lowered confidence and will.

Dirkenstien · 11-12-2008, 09:53 AM

Overall we played a really good game last night and showed the potential to be contenders. It's obvious we're still not there yet and it may take a trade to get there but we're really not far from being a feared team in this league.

My hat goes off to Stack and Green. Great showings, fellas.

Silk Smoov · 11-12-2008, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

This is quite a bit further than I'd go. Dirk was trying, he just wasn't getting it done. He didn't pass off to Stack as soon as he got the ball, he passed off after trying and failing to get around Pau Gasol. Whatever you want to say about Dirk's natural tendency on defense, Pau's nature is 10X worse. He couldn't score on Pau freaking Gasol last night during crunchtime. What's up with that? And the airball? I don't think that was lack of effort. He took the shot in the first place, which also shows that he wanted to take the shot. I thought he got fouled - somebody who has it can watch the replay. In any case, he couldn't get the successful shot off past Pau (again). But (if there was no foul) how often does Dirk shoot an airball at that point in the game? That's out of the ordinary. But he did get back down the court faster than the outlet pass and broke up the easy layup. That was effort and that was heart and that was desire, and that was a great play by the big man. And the goofy foul on Pau at the other end - that looked like a frustration decision.

Dirk does look slower and a little out of it. Is Carlisle treating him like one of the younger guys in practice, rather than as one of the older guys? Is Dirk just trying to coast through the first half of the season? Is Dirk losing some of his edge? WHo knows, but to me it looked like he wanted it last night, and he tried for it, but he just couldn't get it.

I understand, but I would rather say he did not put forth the effort, than to say he put forth the effort and played down right horrible. IMO

I saw the airball in a different way. I saw the airball coming from a player who does not want to be the difference maker that night and was forced to shot due to the wide open shot. I saw the same thing when he gave up his shot to throw it to Stack with about 3sec left on the shot clock to put Stack in a horrible position to score. I also saw a guy that does not want to put forth an effort on defense to try to block out and defend Gasol in the wanning moments.

To me, that means Dirk should not have been out there, but it is catch 22, because there was really no way to not have your star out there during this time. The thing that bothers me is the fact he just called out his entire team to the media for lack of effort.

You know what, if we all say that he put forth an effort and just came up entirely empty, then what we are really saying is that Dirk is on the way down and his time has passed. Are we all ready to say that? I would rather say that Dirk just refuses to put forth an effort in the crunch against contender type teams for the most part. He looked very good against a depleted Spurs team. He looked horrible against a Rocket's team that looks like a contender. Dirk looked horrible against a Cavs team that looks like a contender in the East. Dirk looked bad against a Denver team that looks to be ready to contend with the new additions, and lastly he looked down right bad against a Laker team that looks like they are ready to win a title right now. Coincidence? No! A trend? Maybe..IMO

Underdog · 11-12-2008, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurst0509

Truth.

Seriously though, where the hell do they come from? I bet 10% of the arena was wearing yellow and purple and every single one of them was acting like an obnoxious d-bag. I expect it with nearby division rivals like the Rockets and Spurs but I can never understand where all the Lakers fans come from...

Some people are always looking for the next bandwagon to hop onto... I bet the folks who were chanting "MVP" for Kobe were calling him a rapist and saying he couldn't win without Shaq a year ago...

Underdog · 11-12-2008, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

After a short amount of sleep, I've decided that I am disturbed by Dirks play, but over all proud of the Mavericks last night. I really thought they were going to get completely blown out of the gym by midway through the second quarter.

I'm starting to wonder if he can't keep up with faster-paced basketball (Kidd) any longer...