05-18-2009, 08:29 AM
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#1
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Guru
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
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So how much does this guy have to borrow before any non-conservative speaks up?
It is quite astonishing to me how in-love folks still are with barry.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...ebt_96539.html
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May 18, 2009Obama's Dangerous Debt
By Robert Samuelson
WASHINGTON -- Just how much government debt does a president have to endorse before he's labeled "irresponsible"? Well, apparently much more than the massive amounts envisioned by President Obama. The final version of his 2010 budget, released last week, is a case study in political expediency and economic gambling.
Let's see. From 2010 to 2019, Obama projects annual deficits totaling $7.1 trillion; that's atop the $1.8 trillion deficit for 2009. By 2019, the ratio of publicly held federal debt to gross domestic product (GDP, or the economy) would reach 70 percent, up from 41 percent in 2008. That would be the highest since 1950 (80 percent). The Congressional Budget Office, using less optimistic economic forecasts, raises these estimates. The 2010-19 deficits would total $9.3 trillion; the debt-to-GDP ratio in 2019 would be 82 percent.
But wait: Even these totals may be understated. By various estimates, Obama's health plan might cost $1.2 trillion over a decade; Obama has budgeted only $635 billion. Next, the huge deficits occur despite a pronounced squeeze of defense spending. From 2008 to 2019, total federal spending would rise 75 percent, but defense spending would increase only 17 percent. Unless foreign threats recede, military spending and deficits might both grow.
Except from crabby Republicans, these astonishing numbers have received little attention -- a tribute to Obama's Zen-like capacity to discourage serious criticism. Everyone's fixated on the present economic crisis, which explains and justifies big deficits (lost revenues, anti-recession spending) for a few years.
Hardly anyone notes that huge deficits continue indefinitely.
One reason Obama is so popular is that he has promised almost everyone lower taxes and higher spending. Beyond the undeserving who make more than $250,000, 95 percent of "working families" receive a tax cut. Obama would double federal spending for basic research in "key agencies." He wants to build high-speed rail networks that would require continuous subsidy. Obama can do all this and more by borrowing.
Consider the extra debt as a proxy for political evasion. The president doesn't want to confront Americans with choices between lower spending and higher taxes -- or, given the existing deficits, perhaps less spending and more taxes. Except for talk, Obama hasn't done anything to reduce the expense of retiring baby boomers. He claims to be containing overall health costs, but he's actually proposing more government spending (see above).
Closing future deficits with either tax increases or spending cuts would require gigantic changes. Discounting the recession's effect on the deficit, Marc Goldwein of the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget puts the underlying "structural deficit" -- the basic gap between the government's spending commitments and its tax base -- at 3 percent to 4 percent of GDP. In today's dollars, that's roughly $400 billion to $600 billion.
It's true that since 1961 the federal budget has run deficits in all but five years. But the resulting government debt has consistently remained below 50 percent of GDP; that's the equivalent of a household with $100,000 of income having a $50,000 debt. (Note: Deficits are the annual gap between government's spending and its tax revenues. The debt is the total borrowing caused by past deficits.) Adverse economic effects, if any, were modest. But Obama's massive, future deficits would break this pattern and become more threatening.
At best, the rising cost of the debt would intensify pressures to increase taxes, cut spending -- or create bigger, unsustainable deficits. By CBO's estimates, interest on the debt as a share of federal spending will double between 2008 and 2019, from 8 percent of the total to 16 percent. Huge budget deficits could also weaken economic growth by "crowding out" private investment.
At worst, the burgeoning debt could trigger a future financial crisis. The danger is that "we won't be able to sell it (Treasury debt) at reasonable interest rates," says economist Rudy Penner, head of the CBO from 1983 to 1987. In today's anxious climate, this hasn't happened. American and foreign investors have favored "safe" U.S. Treasuries. But a glut of bonds, fears of inflation -- or something else -- might one day shatter confidence. Bond prices might fall sharply; interest rates would rise. The consequences could be worldwide because foreigners own half of U.S. Treasury debt.
The Obama budgets flirt with deferred distress, though we can't know what form it might take or when it might occur. Present gain comes with the risk of future pain. As the present economic crisis shows, imprudent policies ultimately backfire, even if the reversal's timing and nature are unpredictable.
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The wonder is that these issues have been so ignored. Imagine hypothetically that a President McCain had submitted a budget plan identical to Obama's. There would almost certainly have been a loud outcry: "McCain's Mortgaging Our Future." Obama should be held to no less exacting a standard.
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No kidding.
__________________
"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’
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05-18-2009, 10:52 AM
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#2
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: TX
Posts: 2,505
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Saddly what we have here is a clear case of "My guy won so he's not wrong"
We who supported and continue to support Bush and Republicans refuse to acknowledge any wrongdoing, while those who support Democrats and Obama are simply bracing themselves in denial.
What amazes me is the propoganda machine of the left. It's a media driven lovefest and a very powerful one as they continue to influence those who pay merely passing interest in the government.
Meanwhile, strictly in my opinion, you have a strong core group of people who remain on the Republican side of the aisle and are doing their best grass roots efforts to raise awareness...having to fight the "Man", the machine of the Democratic party and it's left wing propoganda machines.
It's amazing to watch how the left is demonizing any and all opposition to Obama, yet they are unwilling to take an internal examination at what are policies that are dooming America. The Democrats would rather STAY in power, in a failing America than to admit that their ideology is wrong...or even quietly change their policies to create a better America.
My question: How much of a price are American willing to pay, before they decide to call the President, whom works for the people, and the Democrats, who also work for the people...to the carpet? Republicans, should also be called to the carpet...but perhaps for some other reasons.
It's time for a peaceful revolution...vote the Democrats OUT in 2010!!!
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05-19-2009, 11:05 AM
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#3
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Guru
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
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92...I completley disagree with republicans not acknowledging wrongdoings...We do it all of the time.
The media is in the tank for obama....they still feel that "tingle" up the leg.
__________________
"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’
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05-19-2009, 11:17 AM
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#4
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Guru
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
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I sure wish I had listened closer to Barry when he was running. If I had I probably would have voted for him...he's such a frugal fella.
Uh...nevermind.
Quote:
Economist Kevin Hassett, May 19, 2009, Bloomberg News columnist:Extrapolating out the 2007 CBO forecast, our government plans to spend about $5.6 trillion more between 2009 and 2018 than was projected to be spent when the Democrats took over control of Congress.
To put that number in perspective, at the start of the 2007 budget year, Democrats inherited $4.8 trillion in outstanding government debt. That means that all of the deficits that have been run through all of history, funds that were used to finance the Vietnam War and the Iraq War and everything else in between, would be smaller than the spending increases of Democrats over the next 10 years if they are permitted to stay in power and keep up this pace.
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__________________
"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’
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05-22-2009, 08:13 AM
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#5
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Guru
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
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Wow...this bunch is priceless.. With one side of the mouth running up a tremendous deficit and the other talking frugality. It's some amazing political kabuki theater going on and being accepted around here.
Quote:
May 22 (Bloomberg) -- Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner committed to cutting the budget deficit as concern about deteriorating U.S. creditworthiness deepened, and ascribed a sell-off in Treasuries to prospects for an economic recovery.
“It’s very important that this Congress and this president put in place policies that will bring those deficits down to a sustainable level over the medium term,” Geithner said in an interview with Bloomberg Television yesterday. He added that the target is reducing the gap to about 3 percent of gross domestic product, from a projected 12.9 percent this year.
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__________________
"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’
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05-22-2009, 10:55 AM
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#6
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,014
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Quote:
One reason Obama is so popular is that he has promised almost everyone lower taxes
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but don't tax cuts increase tax revenues? that's the mantra of reaganomics isn't it?
seems the obama budget mirrors those of the 80's, when the folks on the right were giddy with praise.
the irony is pretty funny.
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05-22-2009, 05:23 PM
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#7
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavdog
seems the obama budget mirrors those of the 80's, when the folks on the right were giddy with praise.
the irony is pretty funny.
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Don't you mean tax rates of the 80's? Cause the budget (and specifically the budget deficit) doesn't compare at all.
(in billions of $)
1980: -73.8
1981:-79.0
1982:-128.0
1983:-207.8
1984:-185.4
1985:-212.3
1986:-221.2
1987:-149.8
1988:-155.2
1989:-152.5
2009 White House projected:-1,200.0
If we're gonna spend record amounts of money, we should tax record amounts to pay for it. If your child spent your money like the US government, you'd spank them into next week.
__________________
Is this ghost ball??
Last edited by DirkFTW; 05-22-2009 at 05:31 PM.
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05-22-2009, 06:42 PM
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#8
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirkFTW
If we're gonna spend record amounts of money, we should tax record amounts to pay for it.
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you're one of the few people who advocate higher taxes.
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05-22-2009, 06:54 PM
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#9
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavdog
you're one of the few people who advocate higher taxes.
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Well, first and foremost I do not advocate higher spending. But if we're going to do one, we have to do the other to keep from screwing ourselves over.
__________________
Is this ghost ball??
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05-22-2009, 07:15 PM
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#10
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Basketball fan nirvana
Posts: 5,625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirkFTW
....if we're going to do one, we have to do the other to keep from screwing ourselves over.
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yeah...
__________________
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