07-06-2009, 10:27 PM
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#81
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,531
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This is ridiculous...If Marion can even say a complete sentence during his press conference I will say this has a shot of working...
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07-06-2009, 10:27 PM
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#82
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Golden Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,209
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IF we get Marion then the Mavs should offer Josh+Damp+Filler to the Hawks for Joe Johnson.
Kidd
Johnson
Marion
Nowitzki
Gortat
Last edited by Thomas86; 07-06-2009 at 10:28 PM.
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07-06-2009, 10:28 PM
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#83
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Rooting for the laundry
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 21,342
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Between this and the rumor that Dany Heatley might be getting dealt to the Blue Jackets, this has been quite a night for rumors.
What? You guys didn't hear about that one?
Hello...?
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07-06-2009, 10:29 PM
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#84
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LonghornDub
My hand started fading away, but then I jammed with Chuck Berry's cousin and everything was ok.
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You should have grabbed Wilt Chamberlain on your way back!
(I'd add Magic & Jordan too, but they're still alive so any meeting between them could create a time paradox, the results of which could cause a chain reaction that would unravel the very fabric of the space time continuum, and destroy the entire universe!)
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
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07-06-2009, 10:29 PM
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#85
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flacolaco
Between this and the rumor that Dany Heatley might be getting dealt to the Blue Jackets, this has been quite a night for rumors.
What? You guys didn't hear about that one?
Hello...?
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That was hilarious!
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07-06-2009, 10:30 PM
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#86
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Dallas,Tx
Posts: 270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas86
IF we get Marion then the Mavs should offer Josh+Damp+Filler to the Hawks for Joe Johnson.
Kidd
Johnson
Marion
Nowitzki
Gortat
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I don't think the Hawks will give up Joe Johnson. Why would they give up the face of their franchise for Howard and Damp?
__________________
SET RODDY FREE!
Last edited by RoddyB#3; 07-06-2009 at 10:34 PM.
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07-06-2009, 10:30 PM
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#87
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,082
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What about Josh to the bench, JET starts at 2, Marion 3?
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07-06-2009, 10:32 PM
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#88
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs
What about Josh to the bench, JET starts at 2, Marion 3?
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Josh's ego just told you to go f**k yourself!
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
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07-06-2009, 10:32 PM
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#89
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Golden Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs
What about Josh to the bench, JET starts at 2, Marion 3?
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Josh ego would ask for a trade before he come off the bench.
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07-06-2009, 10:33 PM
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#90
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Platinum Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoddyB#3
I don't think the Hawks will give up Joe Johnson. Why would they give up the face of their franchise for Howard and Damp.
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Yeah, I don't know why everyone's acting like the Hawks are having a firesale. They're a young team with a future as bright as anyone's - no chance they're messing with that.
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07-06-2009, 10:33 PM
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#91
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North Laredo
Posts: 7,995
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__________________
"Dirk Nowitzki is now a household name in every locker room in this world.
You say it in Brazil, you say Dirk, they know Nowitzki. You say it in China,
they know Nowitzki. Kobe, Michael, DIRK." - Jeff Van Gundy
Last edited by Rick41; 07-06-2009 at 10:34 PM.
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07-06-2009, 10:34 PM
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#92
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog
Josh's ego just told you to go f**k yourself!
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This does bring up an eventual situation we'll run into: Jet's role is slowly being reduced...especially if we parlay Josh or Damp into something legit.
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07-06-2009, 10:34 PM
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#93
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,082
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Josh can kiss my a$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
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07-06-2009, 10:34 PM
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#94
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Diamond Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: DC
Posts: 4,712
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josh is the 2nd best player on our team and is clearly temperamental.
2 very good reasons we should never EVER even think about bringing him off the bench.
__________________
Quote:
RT @TyLawson3 Good game between Dallas and Portland. Good thing we didn't end up getting Dallas. Coach Karl lost his mind.
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07-06-2009, 10:35 PM
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#95
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Golden Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 1,648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs
What about Josh to the bench, JET starts at 2, Marion 3?
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I think he's on to something here. Josh clearly thinks the game only lasts three quarters--if we wait until the start of the second to bring him in, and he plays solidly for three quarters after that...the problem of the disappearing Josh Howard in the 4th is solved.
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07-06-2009, 10:35 PM
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#96
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nowhereman
josh is the 2nd best player on our team and is clearly temperamental.
2 very good reasons we should never EVER even think about bringing him off the bench.
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It would be like a worst-case Ron Artest: All Crazy, Zero Basketball
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07-06-2009, 10:35 PM
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#97
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,082
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Ok fine bad idea, it'll be interesting to see how that works with Josh, Jet and Marion. Good luck RC.
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07-06-2009, 10:39 PM
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#98
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs
Ok fine bad idea, it'll be interesting to see how that works with Josh, Jet and Marion. Good luck RC.
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It's gonna depend on if we send parts out with Stack too. Not like it'll be Jet or something, but it could be Wright or maybe even two pieces who don't fit into our future (George and/or Williams).
Jet can be set as just a SG off the bench. As mentioned before, Marion could double as help for Dirk. There is a chance though that we could also get that in this deal with Humphries.
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07-06-2009, 10:41 PM
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#99
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,938
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I didn't watch a ton of Marion last year, but here's a couple statistical facts:
1) the year of the Shaq trade, his statistical production in Phoenix was every bit as good as it had been in previous seasons, and then it dropped off rather precipitously post-trade
2) while his statistical production this last year was poor at SF, it was outstanding at PF
The first point is noteworthy because it supports the argument that the drop in his stats of late reflects the fact that the systems he was playing in, and players he was playing with, simply weren't nearly as good a fit for him as they were in Phoenix.
The second is arguably concerning because he performed poorly as a SF, but at the same time reassuring because if his athleticism were failing him I'd expect his ability to play the PF slot to fall off first (owing to his relative lack of height). If you're looking for one stat that's particularly hopeful, his rebound rate at PF in Miami last year was 15.2 per 48 minutes, and in Toronto it was 16.5 per 48 minutes. Those are not the kind of numbers that I'd expect from an undersized guy who's lost his athleticism.
__________________
"He's coming off the bench aggressive right away, looking for his shot. If he has any daylight, we need him to shoot the ball. We know it's going in."
-Dirk Nowitzki on Jason Terry, after JET's 16 point 4th quarter against the Pacers.
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07-06-2009, 10:42 PM
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#100
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 8,668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LonghornDub
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*coughs*
__________________
"Ok, Go Mavericks!"
-Avery Johnson
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07-06-2009, 10:45 PM
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#101
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: uranus
Posts: 13,643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog
Josh's ego just told you to go f**k yourself!
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With respects.... mine does too.
__________________
you just proofed how stupid you are - CRAZYBOY
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07-06-2009, 10:46 PM
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#102
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Lazy Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lazytown
Posts: 18,721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grndmstr_c
I didn't watch a ton of Marion last year, but here's a couple statistical facts:
1) the year of the Shaq trade, his statistical production in Phoenix was every bit as good as it had been in previous seasons, and then it dropped off rather precipitously post-trade
2) while his statistical production this last year was poor at SF, it was outstanding at PF
The first point is noteworthy because it supports the argument that the drop in his stats of late reflects the fact that the systems he was playing in, and players he was playing with, simply weren't nearly as good a fit for him as they were in Phoenix.
The second is arguably concerning because he performed poorly as a SF, but at the same time reassuring because if his athleticism were failing him I'd expect his ability to play the PF slot to fall off first (owing to his relative lack of height). If you're looking for one stat that's particularly hopeful, his rebound rate at PF in Miami last year was 15.2 per 48 minutes, and in Toronto it was 16.5 per 48 minutes. Those are not the kind of numbers that I'd expect from an undersized guy who's lost his athleticism.
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This is one of the many reasons I'm glad gmc is back.
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07-06-2009, 10:46 PM
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#103
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grndmstr_c
I didn't watch a ton of Marion last year, but here's a couple statistical facts:
1) the year of the Shaq trade, his statistical production in Phoenix was every bit as good as it had been in previous seasons, and then it dropped off rather precipitously post-trade
2) while his statistical production this last year was poor at SF, it was outstanding at PF
The first point is noteworthy because it supports the argument that the drop in his stats of late reflects the fact that the systems he was playing in, and players he was playing with, simply weren't nearly as good a fit for him as they were in Phoenix.
The second is arguably concerning because he performed poorly as a SF, but at the same time reassuring because if his athleticism were failing him I'd expect his ability to play the PF slot to fall off first (owing to his relative lack of height). If you're looking for one stat that's particularly hopeful, his rebound rate at PF in Miami last year was 15.2 per 48 minutes, and in Toronto it was 16.5 per 48 minutes. Those are not the kind of numbers that I'd expect from an undersized guy who's lost his athleticism.
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That's hardcore stuff, thanks!
These were some opinions of Raps fans:
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He needs a creative PG to be effective. And he is really at his best in a fast paced system. He rebounds very well for a SF and is good defensively also, he'll keep guys in check but he isn't going to shut them down them down, but that depends on team defense. He can not make a layup at all, he just chucks up something to the backboard and goes for the rebound. He can get to the rim with very good cuts without the ball, just needs a good PG to get him the ball.
His rebounding and defense are his biggest calling cards, but with a creative PG such as Kidd, he should be good enough on offense. He is made for the fast break.
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Quote:
He will benefit from having Kidd as his playmaker. No doubt the guy can play but he is only really effective around the basket and no more than 8 feet out. He will certainly provide a bit more inside scoring and rebounding to offset Dirk's perimeter game for Dallas.
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07-06-2009, 10:49 PM
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#104
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Lazy Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lazytown
Posts: 18,721
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One nice thing about this..we will know tomorrow or Wednesday at the very latest if it's going to happen or not. Whereas we have to wait another 9 gays for the Gortat thing to be official.
So let's assume this goes through, Gortat is here, Kidd signs, and the plan is to roll with Marion/Josh as your 2/3. Assume some sort of filler is sent in the trade, but not Wright.
What do you want from the LLE?
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07-06-2009, 10:49 PM
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#105
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Golden Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mesquite, Texas
Posts: 1,403
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I have my fingers crossed for this deal. I rather see how Marion does along side Kidd before I talk about decline plus he brings some much need defense to the Mavs.
__________________
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07-06-2009, 10:50 PM
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#106
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Lazy Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lazytown
Posts: 18,721
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Oh, and if this happens...goodbye Bass.
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07-06-2009, 10:51 PM
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#107
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Golden Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 1,648
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So if this deal goes down, and this is the last major move the Mavs make this offseason, I will be satisfied that the FO has done a solid job.
1. Kept J-Kidd. The guy is still a player, and we had NOTHING to replace him with; if we let him walk, we'd have had to use one of our other chips to fill the hole at PG, and would have been dealing from a position of weakness, even desperation--meaning we'd have badly overpaid.
2. Upgraded the C position. As espoused in the Gortat thread (the 2nd most popular thread I ever started, after the Harry Potter joke I made which turned into a serious one), I'm a fan of the Gortat signing--not because I think he's the second coming, but because whether he's our starter next year or splits the game in half with Damp, our overall 48 minutes at the C position has been improved over what it was last season.
3. Acquired an athletic wing (Marion) who can play on both ends of the court. I'm not a huge Marion fan--though I'm hoping that is mostly sour grapes over him having been on one of our chief rivals for a few seasons. He is athletic, which we needed. He possesses an outside shot--not a deadly one, but defenses can't leave him alone out there. He's a finisher, a guy that Kidd is going to connect with for a couple alley-oops a game. Oh, and he actually plays defense. Marion can also slide over to the 4 for the 8-10 minutes a game that Dirk rests, which effectively fills the void created by Bass's eventual departure.
What I really like here is, we've added two players to our top 8, which makes our top 8 better, but also improves our depth. Assume Damp goes to the bench--well, that's arguably the best backup C in the league. Assume Josh & Marion start at the wings--well, that pushes Antoine Wright down to our #8 guy (Kidd, Josh, Marion, Dirk, Gortat, Terry, Damp), where he's actually pretty solid. Having guys like Barea and Singleton as the 9th & 10th guys, instead of 7th & 8th, is indicative of a stronger team overall.
The other thing I like about this deal--again, assuming it's the Stack chip (and maybe some filler garbage like Williams or George) for Marion--is that we now have two large expiring contracts on the roster who are potentially expendable. If Gortat is really strong, and Hollins returns & shows some development, Damp can be moved; if Marion contributes a lot and Josh persists in being a knuckehead, there's expiring #2. One of those two, or the pair combined, can be parlayed into a significant contributor at the deadline should we find ourselves on the cusp of contention but just one piece away. It also puts us in the position of strength, having something other teams will want, rather than being desperate buyers. For instance, trading Damp & Josh for Michael Redd would be a gamble right now, with us not knowing for sure that Gortat is a 40 minute center, and Redd coming off an injury; but come February, we'll know more about our guys, and more about Redd (or someone like him), which will allow for a more informed decision, should we have to make one.
Oh yeah--and the other alternative is, both Josh and Damp are playing well, the team meshes as a unit...and we find ourselves contending for the West with a lineup of Kidd, Josh, Marion, Dirk & Gortat, backed by Terry, Damp, Wright, Singleton, Barea, etc. Awesome. Then we don't need to make a move, and can decide in the offseason if we want to let those guys expire, pick up the option on Josh, involve one or both in a S&T for Bosh, etc.
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07-06-2009, 10:51 PM
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#108
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jthig32
What do you want from the LLE?
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Daaaaaaaaaaaamn good question.
If you move Josh to the 2, and have Jet there as well...unless you plan a deal to get rid of one or both to lock up the SG spot, you don't need to necessarily use the MLE for a SG.
Matt Barnes comes to mind now. Use him to backup Marion if Wright is gone. If he's not, then we need to answer the next concern...
What happens with our backup PF spot.
Last edited by BGMaverick9; 07-06-2009 at 10:52 PM.
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07-06-2009, 10:52 PM
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#109
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas86
IF we get Marion then the Mavs should offer Josh+Damp+Filler to the Hawks for Joe Johnson.
Kidd
Johnson
Marion
Nowitzki
Gortat
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oh my god that team looks stacked
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07-06-2009, 10:52 PM
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#110
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Golden Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Dallas
Posts: 1,118
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I am sold! Anything to bring some length in here! Have you seen his wing span in person? I've seen him in person but I didn't ask him "Oh hey Shawn open up your arms and flap em' like a bird please"
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07-06-2009, 10:54 PM
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#111
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Golden Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 1,648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RareMilk
I am sold! Anything to bring some length in here! Have you seen his wing span in person? I've seen him in person but I didn't ask him "Oh hey Shawn open up your arms and flap em' like a bird please"
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Taken out of context, one might think this is a post about Bradley.
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07-06-2009, 10:55 PM
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#112
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 17,873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FINtastic
*coughs*
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I did say "at the least." It wasn't all-inclusive. Sorry to overlook you, though.
__________________
John Madden on Former NFL Running Back Leroy Hoard: "You want one yard, he'll get you three. You want five yards, he'll get you three."
"Your'e a low-mentality drama gay queen!!" -- She_Growls
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07-06-2009, 10:55 PM
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#113
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jthig32
One nice thing about this..we will know tomorrow or Wednesday at the very latest if it's going to happen or not. Whereas we have to wait another 9 gays for the Gortat thing to be official.
So let's assume this goes through, Gortat is here, Kidd signs, and the plan is to roll with Marion/Josh as your 2/3. Assume some sort of filler is sent in the trade, but not Wright.
What do you want from the LLE?
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07-06-2009, 10:55 PM
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#114
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,938
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jthig32
One nice thing about this..we will know tomorrow or Wednesday at the very latest if it's going to happen or not. Whereas we have to wait another 9 gays for the Gortat thing to be official.
So let's assume this goes through, Gortat is here, Kidd signs, and the plan is to roll with Marion/Josh as your 2/3. Assume some sort of filler is sent in the trade, but not Wright.
What do you want from the LLE?
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If Marion comes I really don't see a place for Bass, but I want to keep Singleton. Hopefully that doesn't require the LLE.
I'm fine with Josh/Marion as the starting 2/3, and a defensive option like Ross is a nice guy to have on the bench. It'd sure be nice if there was a way to get Parker and Marion in the prospective S&T. I think I'd want to save the LLE for next year in that case.
Assuming no Parker and Singleton doesn't cost the LLE, I still think a SG with good size and an offensive game would be nice to have. That brings me back to Wafer.
__________________
"He's coming off the bench aggressive right away, looking for his shot. If he has any daylight, we need him to shoot the ball. We know it's going in."
-Dirk Nowitzki on Jason Terry, after JET's 16 point 4th quarter against the Pacers.
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07-06-2009, 10:56 PM
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#115
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavs777
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That's unfortunate...
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07-06-2009, 10:56 PM
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#116
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Lazy Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lazytown
Posts: 18,721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BGMaverick9
Daaaaaaaaaaaamn good question.
If you move Josh to the 2, and have Jet there as well...unless you plan a deal to get rid of one or both to lock up the SG spot, you don't need to necessarily use the MLE for a SG.
Matt Barnes comes to mind now. Use him to backup Marion if Wright is gone. If he's not, then we need to answer the next concern...
What happens with our backup PF spot.
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I'm perfectly fine with Marion/Singleton playing backup PF (assuming we bring Singleton back).
I want a few things to become concrete so I can start going through roster guesses.
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07-06-2009, 10:57 PM
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#117
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BGMaverick9
Daaaaaaaaaaaamn good question.
If you move Josh to the 2, and have Jet there as well...unless you plan a deal to get rid of one or both to lock up the SG spot, you don't need to necessarily use the MLE for a SG.
Matt Barnes comes to mind now. Use him to backup Marion if Wright is gone. If he's not, then we need to answer the next concern...
What happens with our backup PF spot.
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nvm that sounded stupid, Barnes would be interesting
Last edited by mavs777; 07-06-2009 at 11:00 PM.
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07-06-2009, 10:57 PM
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#118
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jthig32
What do you want from the LLE?
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Which PG's are available for that price?
(otherwise, give me Matt Barnes...)
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
Last edited by Underdog; 07-06-2009 at 10:58 PM.
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07-06-2009, 10:58 PM
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#119
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Platinum Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grndmstr_c
If Marion comes I really don't see a place for Bass, but I want to keep Singleton. Hopefully that doesn't require the LLE.
I'm fine with Josh/Marion as the starting 2/3, and a defensive option like Ross is a nice guy to have on the bench. It'd sure be nice if there was a way to get Parker and Marion in the prospective S&T. I think I'd want to save the LLE for next year in that case.
Assuming no Parker and Singleton doesn't cost the LLE, I still think a SG with good size and an offensive game would be nice to have. That brings me back to Wafer.
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I'm no CBA expert, but if I'm not mistaken, we have Early Bird Rights for Singleton and wouldn't have to use the LLE. There's a decent chance I have no idea what I'm saying.
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07-06-2009, 10:58 PM
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#120
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grndmstr_c
If Marion comes I really don't see a place for Bass, but I want to keep Singleton. Hopefully that doesn't require the LLE.
I'm fine with Josh/Marion as the starting 2/3, and a defensive option like Ross is a nice guy to have on the bench. It'd sure be nice if there was a way to get Parker and Marion in the prospective S&T. I think I'd want to save the LLE for next year in that case.
Assuming no Parker and Singleton doesn't cost the LLE, I still think a SG with good size and an offensive game would be nice to have. That brings me back to Wafer.
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I don't think Singleton will be an issue to retain, I think Hollins should be ok too.
Any interest in Barnes? SF backup, has some range and can still D up a bit.
I think minutes might be hard to come by because you have shift Josh to SG and most of those minutes will be up with Josh and Jet. Ross is good insurance for defense and etc. I think there will be available minutes because I have a feeling Wright is getting dealt.
LLE is not available year to year, correct? So if we didn't use it, then we'd still have it next year, but if we use it, it's gone til 2011...that's what you're saying?
Last edited by BGMaverick9; 07-06-2009 at 11:00 PM.
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