07-20-2009, 05:07 PM
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#1
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Golden Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,589
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How to use the Buckshot--In Honor of D. Lord
Since our own D. Lord of the Salary Cap has been doing the most creative thinking about how to put deals together under the NBA salary cap these days, I'd like to start a thread in his honor that explores just what the Mavs may be able to do with the Buckshot.
(BTW: If the Mavs actually worked all this out beforehand in anticipation of the current financial situation, then all I've got to say is Donnie and Mark already deserve the Executives of the Year award).
In any event, I've been thinking about how you can use the Buckshot to get a serious player and I think you can do it before September 9, when you can trade Greg Buckner with another player by doing a three-way deal. Like this:
Dallas:
Gives: Buckner to Utah
Receives: Tyrus Thomas from Chicago
Utah:
Gives: Boozer to Chicago
Receives: Buckner from Dallas
Salmons from Chicago
Linton Johnson from Chicago
Chicago:
Gives: Tyrus Thomas to Dallas
Salmons to Utah
Linton Johnson to Utah
Receives: Boozer from Utah
This works under the salary cap, although I'm not sure it works for all the teams--Chicago may be a little short on value, although a draft choice might fix it.
The point, however, is that you don't have to wait until September to do a big deal if it's a three team deal and Dallas takes back a player equal in salary to Buckner and only facilitates a deal with a team looking to dump salary.
It's the same thing as being under the salary cap--as Memphis was in facilitating the Marion deal.
Boozer is the big prize, since Utah wants to dump salary and he has value as a player, but there are probably other trade possibilities for this type of deal as well.
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07-20-2009, 05:18 PM
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#2
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,002
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Chicago won't do that deal, Boozer is not worth Salmons plus Tyrus Thomas
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07-20-2009, 05:34 PM
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#3
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Golden Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavs777
Chicago won't do that deal, Boozer is not worth Salmons plus Tyrus Thomas
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A little bit beyond the point. Utah could also send out Koufos or Fesenko with the deal, or add draft picks, whatever all the parties feel get the deal to fair. I'm not knowledgable enough about the the cap to know if Dallas could add in a draft choice or money as well--I know the Mavs couldn't include another player until after September 9.
I used Tyrus Thomas in the deal because his salary is close enough to Buckner's to make the trade work. Other players, combinations of players or teams could work as well--although I know Chicago is interested in Boozer (so is Miami, but I couldn't find a trade that looked reasonable and worked under the salary cap with Miami).
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07-20-2009, 06:06 PM
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#4
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Golden Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,650
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I think we find a better fit with the Buck shot... we have no need for Tyrus Thomas. Maybe not better talent.. but a better fit.
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07-20-2009, 08:14 PM
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#5
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Golden Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robillion
I think we find a better fit with the Buck shot... we have no need for Tyrus Thomas. Maybe not better talent.. but a better fit.
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Probably could find a better fit, but Thomas is a pretty big talent. A line up of Dirk, Tyrus Thomas, Marion, Howard, Kidd would be a beast to match up against.
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07-20-2009, 09:39 PM
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#6
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 147
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word is they are using the buck shot on a SG..the good thing is he has to be traded by september, or were stuck with him..
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07-20-2009, 09:45 PM
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#7
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,002
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No to Thomas
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07-20-2009, 09:45 PM
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#8
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavsfan4lyfe201
word is they are using the buck shot on a SG..the good thing is he has to be traded by september, or were stuck with him..
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I have asked you before and will ask you again till you answer, how do you know this? do you have a link or something? are you Don Nelson?
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07-20-2009, 09:58 PM
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#9
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavs777
I have asked you before and will ask you again till you answer, how do you know this? do you have a link or something? are you Don Nelson?
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__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
Last edited by Underdog; 07-20-2009 at 10:02 PM.
Reason: horse has been replaced
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07-20-2009, 10:05 PM
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#10
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,806
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The only thing that sucks about the Buck Shot is it can't be used for a while...waiting is definitely not one of our stronger traits as a message board.
The chip we had could pretty much be used whenever this summer and it had a deadline, we knew he was gonna get dealt...it was just a matter of when and what was coming back. It was the real test for the FO, could they take advantage of the economical climate and bring in talent...it worked.
Buck is either going to get cut or he's going to bring in something that is potentially very beneficial to this roster, plain and simple. It's hard not to get excited though at the potential of what the Buck shot could bring...the waiting definitely isn't an issue for me.
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07-20-2009, 10:09 PM
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#11
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Golden Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,650
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God forbid the Mavs FO waits 3 days after Sept. 9th to finalize anything. We will call for their heads.. heh
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07-20-2009, 10:25 PM
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#12
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,082
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The waiting is a non-issue. They can agree to a trade with another team tonight and announce it. It's just not OFFICIAL until 9/9/09. The season doesn't start until November anyway so it's not like the team is having to play without whoever they get until then.
There is a chance though that they make a trade with another team now and don't announce it until Sept, or wait until Sept is actually here and make the trade. Only in those cases is waiting any sort of issue. It seems unlikely they'll wait to make an agreement until Sept with somebody because rosters are usually set by August.
Last edited by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs; 07-20-2009 at 10:27 PM.
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07-20-2009, 10:26 PM
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#13
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,082
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Accidently double posted.
Last edited by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs; 07-20-2009 at 10:26 PM.
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07-20-2009, 10:30 PM
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#14
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Golden Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,650
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With the way the FO has been criticized for "showing all of their cards" so soon in the Gortat deal, I suspect that even if they do have an agreement they are going to try to keep it under wraps at all costs until it goes down.
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07-20-2009, 10:53 PM
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#15
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,082
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Yeah so there may be alot of frustrated posters around here for waiting til September when there's already a deal in place that we just don't know about.
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07-20-2009, 10:54 PM
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#16
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Golden Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,650
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs
Yeah so there may be alot of frustrated posters around here for waiting til September when there's already a deal in place that we just don't know about.
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It could already be agreed upon today...
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07-21-2009, 12:02 AM
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#17
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robillion
It could already be agreed upon today...
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or a week ago
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07-21-2009, 12:29 AM
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#18
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs
Yeah so there may be alot of frustrated posters around here for waiting til September when there's already a deal in place that we just don't know about.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robillion
It could already be agreed upon today...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavs777
or a week ago
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__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
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07-21-2009, 12:36 AM
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#19
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,806
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Roads? Where We’re Going We Don’t Need Roads…
Last edited by BGMaverick9; 07-21-2009 at 12:45 AM.
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07-21-2009, 12:46 AM
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#20
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Golden Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mesquite, Texas
Posts: 1,403
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What we need is that sports almanac of Marty's to find out when the Mavs win the title.
__________________
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07-21-2009, 10:33 AM
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#21
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,249
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^Go jump in a pile of poo, Biff Tannen!
__________________
Is this ghost ball??
Last edited by DirkFTW; 07-21-2009 at 10:34 AM.
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07-21-2009, 11:27 PM
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#22
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavs777
I have asked you before and will ask you again till you answer, how do you know this? do you have a link or something? are you Don Nelson?
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sorry dude i dont get on here much..i talk to an insider at hoopsworld often..he talks with the mavs FO, cuban, donnie, etc....
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07-22-2009, 12:11 AM
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#23
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavsfan4lyfe201
sorry dude i dont get on here much..i talk to an insider at hoopsworld often..he talks with the mavs FO, cuban, donnie, etc....
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Weak...
I'm Mark Cuban's "shoe" shiner - I get ALL the pillow talk!
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
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07-22-2009, 12:40 AM
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#24
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,806
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insider @ poopsworld?
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07-22-2009, 01:45 AM
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#25
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 365
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How about Buck for Al Horford?
Could be done immediately and it would give us another big..
aaahhhhh dreaammmsss..
I was just looking through salaries trying to figure out how we could use Boozer to our advantage, but I really don't see it. We could trade Humphries/Buckner/Barea/Williams for Boozer, but then who would be the third team in the trade? Sixers for Dalembert doesn't make any sense at all for them considering they have Elton Brand, although since his injury he's been on a sharp decline. Hornets for Chandler wouldn't make any sense (West).. Wizards for Haywood would make me slam my head through a TV screen (two Damp's?)...
Boozer to NY for Curry? :\
I've been very pro-Boozer just because of the possibilities, but now looking at it it seems as if I should've pulled my head out of the sand and actually taken the time to realize why it doesn't seem to make much sense. If we wanted someone like Chandler we could easily just trade those people straight to NO for Chandler and be done with it (something they'd be more interested in anyways).
Gah, need to read more..
Last edited by Justin Credible; 07-22-2009 at 01:45 AM.
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07-22-2009, 03:45 PM
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#26
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,863
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavsfan4lyfe201
word is they are using the buck shot on a SG..the good thing is he has to be traded by september, or were stuck with him..
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Actually his contract is guaranteed on 11/30, so we have until then to work out a trade, but court wise, it'd be smart to have it done long before training camp gets going.
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07-22-2009, 03:48 PM
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#27
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,863
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robillion
It could already be agreed upon today...
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true, but keeping these guys in 100% health between now and then would be a huge undertaking. I'm sure you don't want to get someone and have him take a Monta Ellis like spill on a moped. I'm sure things will start leaking soon after the Marion presser. I'm guessing specific names won't pop up until August 15 or later.
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07-22-2009, 03:54 PM
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#28
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Lazy Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lazytown
Posts: 18,721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavsfan4lyfe201
sorry dude i dont get on here much..i talk to an insider at hoopsworld often..he talks with the mavs FO, cuban, donnie, etc....
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07-22-2009, 04:11 PM
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#29
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 147
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yep. im a die hard fan and i go out of my way to find out whatever i can. dont buy anything im saying 100%, its just what im told as the latest ideas brewing in the mavs FO.
also im predicting kevin martin to the mavs by the trade deadline..half of this is me dreaming..but very possible for an expiring contract and some picks, etc.
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07-22-2009, 05:53 PM
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#30
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavsfan4lyfe201
word is they are using the buck shot on a SG..the good thing is he has to be traded by september, or were stuck with him..
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+
Quote:
Originally Posted by mavsfan4lyfe201
yep. im a die hard fan and i go out of my way to find out whatever i can. dont buy anything im saying 100%, its just what im told as the latest ideas brewing in the mavs FO.
also im predicting kevin martin to the mavs by the trade deadline..half of this is me dreaming..but very possible for an expiring contract and some picks, etc.
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=
Quote:
Originally Posted by jthig32
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Seriously, why would we pay $10m next season (and use all our chips) to pick up a SG to come off the bench behind Jet? It's not like McCants and Von Wafer aren't already available.. Or, idk, that we need a 5 or anything.
Plus, haven't there already been reports that the FO is shopping Humphries for a SG?
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07-22-2009, 07:05 PM
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#31
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,082
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavsfan4lyfe201
yep. im a die hard fan and i go out of my way to find out whatever i can. dont buy anything im saying 100%, its just what im told as the latest ideas brewing in the mavs FO.
also im predicting kevin martin to the mavs by the trade deadline..half of this is me dreaming..but very possible for an expiring contract and some picks, etc.
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So another words, your admittedly full of crap?
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07-22-2009, 08:56 PM
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#32
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 147
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to back up jet? jet comes off the bench last time i checked.
this is what i was told last week. the FO doesnt believe howard can gaurd the 2. so they want to dish buck for a 2.
do i agree with it? no, i think a center is more important
i dont agree with 75% of the moves or trades they make, nelson should of been fired a long time ago
they are tryin to glue this team together ever since devin harris was shipped out in my opinion.
the kevin martin idea, is simply me being optimistic and hopeful. but we do need an SG of his caliber to contend for a title
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07-22-2009, 09:25 PM
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#33
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavsfan4lyfe201
to back up jet? jet comes off the bench last time i checked.
this is what i was told last week. the FO doesnt believe howard can gaurd the 2. so they want to dish buck for a 2.
do i agree with it? no, i think a center is more important
i dont agree with 75% of the moves or trades they make, nelson should of been fired a long time ago
they are tryin to glue this team together ever since devin harris was shipped out in my opinion.
the kevin martin idea, is simply me being optimistic and hopeful. but we do need an SG of his caliber to contend for a title
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They don't believe Howard can guard the 2? He played the 2 and guarded the 2 last season with a PER of +18.5 at that position, and a +5.8 when compared to his opponents production.
This means that not only do they have faith in him being able to guard the 2, they've seen it first hand quite a few times.
And Jet does come off the bench.. He's the 6th man. Which means that he'd be coming off the bench after Josh at the 2. That means that if we got another SG then they'd be backing up Josh/Jet, unless Jet is going to replace Barea in the 1 rotation.
Screw it.. Dirk's the new 5, Jet will play 4, we'll put J Ho at 1, Marion at 2, and Damp at 3.
Barea will be Dirk's backup 5.
I predict we'll acquire Muggsy Bogues to fill in minutes at 4 behind Jet.
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07-22-2009, 09:57 PM
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#34
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 147
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their looking to add depth with the idea of picking up a 2. therefore howard or marion would come off the bench, along with jet.
you guys are all pretty anal about these forums huh?
this is why i dont even bother, you elitist clowns think you know it all and have the best ideas.
id rather have an inside source than wonder what the team im a fan of is going to do everyday.
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07-22-2009, 10:36 PM
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#35
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavsfan4lyfe201
their looking to add depth with the idea of picking up a 2. therefore howard or marion would come off the bench, along with jet.
you guys are all pretty anal about these forums huh?
this is why i dont even bother, you elitist clowns think you know it all and have the best ideas.
id rather have an inside source than wonder what the team im a fan of is going to do everyday.
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Nah man, if I came off as elitist I do apologize.. I just don't see how any of that makes sense. Our current rotation at 2/3
J Ho/Jet/Ross
Marion/J Ho/Singleton (as Carlisle has said that they wat to re-sign him)
Our current rotation at 5?
Damp/Dirk/Singleton (if re-signed)
I don't see how anyone at the Mavs' FO would be discussing a SG when the bench is pretty deep for the 2/3/4 with Singleton and the 5 is a black hole that they've already acknowledged (Gortat).
Could we use another scoring SG? Of course we could.. But why pay $10m/yr for one when you can pick up someone like Von Wafer, a solid 3 shooter to come off the bench, for the BAE? McCants is also a good 3 shooter and he's also free right now..
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07-22-2009, 10:45 PM
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#36
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 147
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when i mentioned the potential to upgrade at the 2 in getting martin..i meant it would be a trade deadline deal..we would have to dish howard, or dampier..either way wed be getting a better player back..this was all just me being optimistic
but i too believe the biggest hole is at the 5..it doesnt look like an upgrade will be made there for a while, unless its through trade
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07-23-2009, 12:18 AM
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#37
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Golden Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,650
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im all for getting Martin here... but no one is going to take your "source" at poopsworld seriously so it is no use throwing that out there continuously. Most of us here dont consider Hoopsworld itself a source. If there is real speculation and possibility of something happening with whoever, then Mr. Stein is going to comment on it, or the great folks over at dallasbasketball.com will get the scoop. Or at least they will find out if it is legit or not.
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07-23-2009, 12:27 AM
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#38
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 147
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well its the only source ive got. Bill Ingram. he talks with the mavs and rockets often. other than db.com..i dont have anything else to go by.
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07-23-2009, 12:58 AM
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#39
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavsfan4lyfe201
when i mentioned the potential to upgrade at the 2 in getting martin..i meant it would be a trade deadline deal..we would have to dish howard, or dampier..either way wed be getting a better player back..this was all just me being optimistic
but i too believe the biggest hole is at the 5..it doesnt look like an upgrade will be made there for a while, unless its through trade
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Still though, unless Howard was traded it wouldn't make much sense.. and even then, why a significant roster change like that in the middle of the season? Seems like it would hurt chances for a 60 win season.
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07-23-2009, 06:38 AM
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#40
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavsfan4lyfe201
well its the only source ive got. Bill Ingram. he talks with the mavs and rockets often. other than db.com..i dont have anything else to go by.
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Bill Ingram is easily the WORST source of basketball news out there - 100% of his "scoops" are pulled straight out of his ass...
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
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