Im sorry guys, I dont see Kidd leading this team anywhere

[Mavericks Rockets Fan]

Bathouse Bear, do you have a trade or free agent in mind that you would think solves the problem?

[druid4rest]

Lets just face it, the spurs are to better team and they always have and will be. As dirty and as arrogant as we are u would have thought we would have won a championship before. Enjoy watching the spurs the rest of the playoffs and try not to choke on your pint of river water.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Bathouse Bear

Im the one that doesnt know what Im talking about?

Did you not see George Hill repeatedly pump fake, go uncontested to the middle of the floor and hit a 17 foot jumper.

Okay......

Jason Kidd has been murdered by the opposing point guard in every series he has played in a Mavs uniform.

Having to hide him on defense means we have to have JJB or JET guard the Tony Parkers of the world....which only weakens their legs come the 4th quarter.

How the hell has Jason Kidd made this Mavs team better?

We are at such a disadvantage every time we have to face the Chauncey Billups, Tony Parkers, Deron Williams, Chris Pauls and Steve Nashs.

Having him means that Jason Terry has been able to play SG exclusively without having to guard big guards. And it will happen the same way with Roddy.

If you can't see how Jason Kidd helps this team then you just don't know much about basketball. Or you're just too jaded in your view to look at the positives and how they balance out the negatives of a player.

[tcat075]

Originally Posted by Bathouse Bear

Im the one that doesnt know what Im talking about?

Did you not see George Hill repeatedly pump fake, go uncontested to the middle of the floor and hit a 17 foot jumper.

Okay......

Jason Kidd has been murdered by the opposing point guard in every series he has played in a Mavs uniform.

Having to hide him on defense means we have to have JJB or JET guard the Tony Parkers of the world....which only weakens their legs come the 4th quarter.

How the hell has Jason Kidd made this Mavs team better?

We are at such a disadvantage every time we have to face the Chauncey Billups, Tony Parkers, Deron Williams, Chris Pauls and Steve Nashs.

Kidd didn't defend a lot of Hill. It was JJB and Roddy. Of course Hill scored some. But 75% of his shots this series were jumpers due to crisp ball movement exploiting the Mavericks zone (being played because of Barea) and Hill making the shot over the contest of a Maverick player. Sometimes, instead of shooting a three (especially when he had hit 4/4 to that point or some such) he would pump fake past Kidd who had come sprinting in to try to contest and drill an open jumper. That's not really Kidd's fault. That's the zone's fault.

And Manu scored on Marion. Duncan scored on Dampier/Haywood. Hill scoring on Kidd doesn't make him a bad defender.

Did you realize he also had 14 steals in 6 games? Yeah. Pretty crazy.

[Mavericks Rockets Fan]

Originally Posted by druid4rest

Lets just face it, the spurs are to better team and they always have and will be. As dirty and as arrogant as we are u would have thought we would have won a championship before. Enjoy watching the spurs the rest of the playoffs and try not to choke on your pint of river water.

They were better than us when we beat them in 7?

[Mavericks Rockets Fan]

Originally Posted by tcat075

Kidd didn't defend a lot of Hill. It was JJB and Roddy. Of course Hill scored some. But 75% of his shots this series were jumpers due to crisp ball movement exploiting the Mavericks zone (being played because of Barea) and Hill making the shot over the contest of a Maverick player. Sometimes, instead of shooting a three (especially when he had hit 4/4 to that point or some such) he would pump fake past Kidd who had come sprinting in to try to contest and drill an open jumper. That's not really Kidd's fault. That's the zone's fault.

And Manu scored on Marion. Duncan scored on Dampier/Haywood. Hill scoring on Kidd doesn't make him a bad defender.

Did you realize he also had 14 steals in 6 games? Yeah. Pretty crazy.

There is no point in arguing with the likes of Bathouse Bear. Because there is only one comparison he cares about: How many points did our PG score vs How many points did their PG score....

[kchan]

Originally Posted by Mavericks Rockets Fan

There is no point in arguing with the likes of Bathouse Bear. Because there is only one comparison he cares about: How many points did our PG score vs How many points did their PG score....

Its not just him, its almost everybody. Its a scoring PG's era now, and most everybody sees that if this kid scores 25 a night, then he must be an awesome PG! Forgetting that PGs arent really meant to score (its just a plus). A great PG can be seen not by how many points he scores or by how many assists he makes, its by controlling the tempo.

I agree though that Kidd ran out of gas in the series, and it was obvious as the season was ending, but that's all the way because of Carlisle's stupid rotations.

[Dirkadirkastan]

Originally Posted by Bathouse Bear

Thats the problem right there.

Every series Jason Kidd has played in a Mavs uniform this is what we have gotten from him.

Look at his results against New Orleans, San Antonio, Denver and San Antonio and they are beyond pathetic.

You Jason Kidd fans are acting like the San Antonio series was an anomaly when I knew 9 points 6 assists on 30% shooting was all we were gonna get from this guy.......because thats all he has done in the past.




Jason Kidd is the major problem on this team. We dont need a top 5 point guard, but we do need a point guard that can play good perimeter defense, and can score by creating his own shot.

The fact that so many people just ignore every single stat and still think Kidd is good for this team is mind blowing.

I knew this team wasnt going anywhere with Jason Kidd as our point guard and to keep it simple its because he cant score and he cant play defense.

You can survive if your PG is not a huge scorer, but he has to be a non-scorer while driving to the basket which exposes the defense for your other scorers. Granted, you have to finish enough that the defense respects your drive, but you can definitely dish more then score (i.e. see Kidd's games from 10 years ago). The fundamental problem was Kidd NEVER showed any drive to the basket in this series.

Nothing against Barea or Roddy B , but the reason they looked like they were playing at such a high level was that they were the only guards consistently driving and forcing the defenses' hand which allowed them to score or open it up for others.

You cant win in the Western Conference with Jason Kidd.

Two words: Derek Fisher

There, I just disproved everything you have said, can say, and will say about being unable to win with Kidd as your point guard.

[Bathouse Bear]

If you can't see how Jason Kidd helps this team then you just don't know much about basketball. Or you're just too jaded in your view to look at the positives and how they balance out the negatives of a player.

How has Jason Kidd made this mavs team better in the playoffs?

Please explain it to me since I dont know that much about basketball.

[tcat075]

Originally Posted by Bathouse Bear

How has Jason Kidd made this mavs team better in the playoffs?

Please explain it to me since I dont know that much about basketball.

He's made them much better. Because, you know, they wouldn't even be IN the playoffs without his consistent threes and establishing of the offense and overall leadership.

[Bathouse Bear]

they wouldn't even be IN the playoffs without his consistent threes and establishing of the offense and overall leadership.

What the f*** does that mean...and if this is a plus....where was it the last two weeks against the Spurs?

Where was it the last two years?

[Mavericks Rockets Fan]

Bathouse Bear, this thread is still a fail because you haven't purposed a trade/free agency move that you'd think will solve the problem. This is like saying, "We should have Michael Jordan instead of Caron Butler only then will we get anywhere"...

[Nowitzki4President]

Just curious... If it was offered today, if it worked contractually:

Kaman/BDavis for Kidd

You do it?

[Mavericks Rockets Fan]

Originally Posted by Nowitzki4President

Just curious... If it was offered today, if it worked contractually:

Kaman/BDavis for Kidd

You do it?

Clippers would never offer

[tcat075]

Originally Posted by Bathouse Bear

What the f*** does that mean...and if this is a plus....where was it the last two weeks against the Spurs?

Where was it the last two years?

See, I knew I could draw you offsides with that.

It doesn't matter what I say. I could say it caused us to integrate so quickly and go on a 13 game winning streak. You could say I'm wrong. There would be no way to prove it. Another moral victory for the troll. Oh, yeah. What's the point? Clearly, you're going to be right because you are the master of all things Jason Kidd, live in the locker room, and know exactly how it effects everyone.

Of course, its not like I know either. But from quotes from Dirk, and from Butler, and from Terry, and from Carlisle...Kidd is a fantastic leader and makes an impact that may not be present to the fan's eye, but still exists. Have you seen people go out of their way to say JJ Barea is a leader? No. Because he's not. If Kidd wasn't a leader, people wouldn't keep saying he was. Done and done.

[Bathouse Bear]

See, I knew I could draw you offsides with that.

It doesn't matter what I say. I could say it caused us to integrate so quickly and go on a 13 game winning streak. You could say I'm wrong. There would be no way to prove it. Another moral victory for the troll. Oh, yeah. What's the point? Clearly, you're going to be right because you are the master of all things Jason Kidd, live in the locker room, and know exactly how it effects everyone.

Of course, its not like I know either. But from quotes from Dirk, and from Butler, and from Terry, and from Carlisle...Kidd is a fantastic leader and makes an impact that may not be present to the fan's eye, but still exists. Have you seen people go out of their way to say JJ Barea is a leader? No. Because he's not. If Kidd wasn't a leader, people wouldn't keep saying he was. Done and done.

TCat, who cares about the regular season?

I dont give a rats ass about a 13 game winning streak two months ago.

You Jason Kidd apologist are like people that argue the world is flat.

It is so obvious that Jason Kidd skill set does not work with this team and this Mavs team is worse under him that it was before him.

In our last four playoff series Jason Kidd has averaged 9 points 6 assists on 30% shooting and contributed nothing to our perimeter defensive efforts......yet this guy gets a pass from you all.


Tcat, I keep reading all your posts on this thread and all your little insults and you are just a jackass.

Im looking at this thread, and everything ive said turned out true....and everything you and Jthig32 have said has been absolutely wrong.

Which leads me to believe that you guys dont know anything about basketball.

The Mavs biggest problem is that we have a point guard that continually disappears in the playoffs and does little to contribute to us winning.