What should we do this summer: a poll

[tcat075]

Originally Posted by jthig32

And I'm more interested in having a player that can create offense himself. Johnson CAN spot up for the jump shot, making him a better fit to play off a player like Dirk, but he can also create his own offense, which would take more pressure off Dirk.

If they were the same level of player, I could maybe see the argument in getting the player better at attacking the rim, but they're not, so give me the better player who still fits pretty well.

Just out of curiosity...what is an Igoudala drive? Is that not creating his own offense? Sometimes the lane will open up because of a drive and kick, or passing around the horn, but most of the time a drive would be considered creating his own offense.

I mean, Butler could create his own offense. Butler in isolation was a solid offensive option for us on some nights. But he's under the bus now. So is someone who can create his own offense what we really need? Or do we need someone who adds the most to our team by giving us strengths in the team's areas of weakness?

[KINGBEEF]

Kirk Hinrich for the Jet???

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by tcat075

Just out of curiosity...what is an Igoudala drive? Is that not creating his own offense? Sometimes the lane will open up because of a drive and kick, or passing around the horn, but most of the time a drive would be considered creating his own offense.

I mean, Butler could create his own offense. Butler in isolation was a solid offensive option for us on some nights. But he's under the bus now. So is someone who can create his own offense what we really need? Or do we need someone who adds the most to our team by giving us strengths in the team's areas of weakness?

But Johnson's offense is not just for himself. To be fair, neither is Iguodala's, he's a pretty darn good passer. But so is Johnson, and he creates MORE offense because he's a much better offensive player. Andre Iguodala is barely an offensive upgrade over Butler, if one at all. And he's an especially terrible fit to play alongside Marion. Why would you make it a priority to acquire a player that would fit terribly with one of your primary rotation members?

I have to say, I'm pretty confounded by the continued notion that Johnson adds to this team's reliance on jump shooting and Iggy doesn't. I've just shown the stats, they're both equally reliant on long jump shots. So when they are throwing up the long jump shots that they take in relatively equal numbers (percentage wise), Johnson shoots a higher percentage. And when they're not shooting long jumpers, Johnson is posting up and Iggy is driving to the rim. And on the whole Johnson is a more prolific and more well rounded scorer.

I'll say this again...if they're equal overall players then I'm willing to discuss how they fit. But when one is a significantly better player than the other, which is the case here, I'm not really considering fit unless the much better one is a terrible fit (see Bosh vs Johnson).

It would be somewhat like saying you want Wade over Lebron because Wade's a much better fit. Not to quite that magnitude, but I think it's a decent example.

[tcat075]

Originally Posted by jthig32

But Johnson's offense is not just for himself. To be fair, neither is Iguodala's, he's a pretty darn good passer. But so is Johnson, and he creates MORE offense because he's a much better offensive player. Andre Iguodala is barely an offensive upgrade over Butler, if one at all. And he's an especially terrible fit to play alongside Marion. Why would you make it a priority to acquire a player that would fit terribly with one of your primary rotation members?

I have to say, I'm pretty confounded by the continued notion that Johnson adds to this team's reliance on jump shooting and Iggy doesn't. I've just shown the stats, they're both equally reliant on long jump shots. So when they are throwing up the long jump shots that they take in relatively equal numbers (percentage wise), Johnson shoots a higher percentage. And when they're not shooting long jumpers, Johnson is posting up and Iggy is driving to the rim. And on the whole Johnson is a more prolific and more well rounded scorer.

I'll say this again...if they're equal overall players then I'm willing to discuss how they fit. But when one is a significantly better player than the other, which is the case here, I'm not really considering fit unless the much better one is a terrible fit (see Bosh vs Johnson).

It would be somewhat like saying you want Wade over Lebron because Wade's a much better fit. Not to quite that magnitude, but I think it's a decent example.

Well, my main thinking is that Iguodala has more of a driving, slashing mentality. If he came to a place with a passing point guard, a big needing to be doubled...all the stuff we'd talk about...he'd be able to drive more and shot less jumpers. He does shot a lot of jumpers this year, but he's on a bad team without other people to create. No, I can't prove a player's mentality, but I do find it interesting that in the 08-09 season, Iggy's splits were much more drive heavy: 64%/36%. And remember, Iggy had some injury problems this year

Johnson, in my opinion, has a shooter's mentality. And he can shoot. And he can hit tough, contested shots. All of that. Bit in 08-09, Johnson shot even more jumpers: 80%/20% split. That's why I think he's going to shoot jumpers no matter the situation. He doesn't have the driving ability that Iguodala has...maybe Iguodala doesn't do it enough, but there is no doubt Iguodala is better at it.

And I think Iggy and JJ aren't as far apart as you think. Yes, JJ is a better scorer overall (1.5 more PPG over his career, 4 more PPG last year). But Iggy is a better rebounder, better passer, better defender, is younger, and actually shoots a higher percentage from the floor over his career.

So I'll be honest. Straight up, JJ or Iggy? But trades are never straight up and considering the players that would have to be given up for one or the other, and considering all the other factors that go into the decision making, I'd rather the Mavericks pursue Iguodala.

[KINGBEEF]

Originally Posted by tcat075

Well, my main thinking is that Iguodala has more of a driving, slashing mentality. If he came to a place with a passing point guard, a big needing to be doubled...all the stuff we'd talk about...he'd be able to drive more and shot less jumpers. He does shot a lot of jumpers this year, but he's on a bad team without other people to create. No, I can't prove a player's mentality, but I do find it interesting that in the 08-09 season, Iggy's splits were much more drive heavy: 64%/36%. And remember, Iggy had some injury problems this year

Johnson, in my opinion, has a shooter's mentality. And he can shoot. And he can hit tough, contested shots. All of that. Bit in 08-09, Johnson shot even more jumpers: 80%/20% split. That's why I think he's going to shoot jumpers no matter the situation. He doesn't have the driving ability that Iguodala has...maybe Iguodala doesn't do it enough, but there is no doubt Iguodala is better at it.

And I think Iggy and JJ aren't as far apart as you think. Yes, JJ is a better scorer overall (1.5 more PPG over his career, 4 more PPG last year). But Iggy is a better rebounder, better passer, better defender, is younger, and actually shoots a higher percentage from the floor over his career.

So I'll be honest. Straight up, JJ or Iggy? But trades are never straight up and considering the players that would have to be given up for one or the other, and considering all the other factors that go into the decision making, I'd rather the Mavericks pursue Iguodala.

so, what do you think about Hinrich for the JET straight up?

[tcat075]

Originally Posted by KINGBEEF

so, what do you think about Hinrich for the JET straight up?

Does that trade work, first of all? I don't think I'd hate that move, though. I've seen some people say keep JET and move him to a lesser role. I don't think JET could accept that, but this trade would, in effect, do so. Hinrich is a shooter, percentages similar to JET, isn't as good of a shooter but in a lesser role, it would balance out. And he plays defense.

I'm not a Kirk Hinrich expert, though. And like I said...does the money work out? I think Chicago might do it...JET does score more and I think they're low on Hinrich. But let's not overrate JET's value...its pretty low after a poor season and a poorer playoff series.

[KINGBEEF]

Originally Posted by tcat075

Does that trade work, first of all? I don't think I'd hate that move, though. I've seen some people say keep JET and move him to a lesser role. I don't think JET could accept that, but this trade would, in effect, do so. Hinrich is a shooter, percentages similar to JET, isn't as good of a shooter but in a lesser role, it would balance out. And he plays defense.

I'm not a Kirk Hinrich expert, though. And like I said...does the money work out? I think Chicago might do it...JET does score more and I think they're low on Hinrich. But let's not overrate JET's value...its pretty low after a poor season and a poorer playoff series.

I believe money wise it's almost a push. Age wise, Hinrich has the advantage. I've seen Hinrich play and he's NOT better than the JET, but like you said if JET's gonna take a lesser role on our team, well Chicago might not sound as bad for him. Plus Hinrich could play the lesser role on our team and still have the shot accuracy as the JET. I think Chicago might go for it because they need another scorer to help out Rose. That's if they don't get Wade!!!

[tcat075]

Originally Posted by KINGBEEF

I believe money wise it's almost a push. Age wise, Hinrich has the advantage. I've seen Hinrich play and he's NOT better than the JET, but like you said if JET's gonna take a lesser role on our team, well Chicago might not sound as bad for him. Plus Hinrich could play the lesser role on our team and still have the shot accuracy as the JET. I think Chicago might go for it because they need another scorer to help out Rose. That's if they don't get Wade!!!

Yeah, if they got Wade they wouldn't have room for JET. Wade's undersized as it is, they don't need another undersized combo guard.