Do you think we'll make a major trade before the deadline?

[dalger]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

The Charlotte situation is a little interesting, they've got the obvious strength in their wings but they lack consistent punch in the front line. It's basically to the point where its just going to keep them in the same spot they've been in: bottom tier playoff team and getting knocked out quickly. They also lost Diop to injury too, he's done for the year. For some reason (Probably the Jordan factor), it seems like that's a team you can make an absurd deal and get away with it...look at what they did this summer?

I guess it wouldn't shock anyone if they decided to go into a different direction and make some changes to the team whose best-case scenario of a season would be to barely make the playoffs only to get swept by the Celtics or Heat.

Perhaps a trade including a young center like Mahinmi (Mohammed and Brown are both in the final year of their respective contracts while Diop is out for the year) and an additional 1st round pick would be interesting to them to start a rebuilding process. Not to mention that they have a history of making questionable deals. And if they wanted a veteran, they could probably re-sign Butler for next season at a much cheaper price than Jackson under his current contract.

[41mvp]

I think Iggy is target number one for the Dallas Mavericks(Marc Cuban)right now.
Couple days ago I read about Iguodala trade and I think this is very interesting deal.Look at

http://www.libertyballers.com/2011/1...about-iguodala

[deamon]

If we can make trade like this, Stevenson and Roddy will stay - just make it!
In PO defense is more important, so I prefer Iggy who is better defender, than Martin who is better scorer. Stevenson and Roddy will score.
8 man rotation in PO:
Kidd, Stevenson, Iguodala, Dirk, Chandler - Roddy, Marion, Haywood.

[j0Shi]

Hold on ... you honestly rate Stevenson over Terry in terms of scoring? I understand that D-Steve has given us consistency, but Terry is by far the more versatile type of player. Stevenson is a nice role player because of his defense and 3pt-shot, but I'd expect Roddy to cut into his and JJs minutes significantly once healthy.

I would wish that either Terry or Roddy could handle the point somehow. Otherwise a rotation with a crowded 2 will be complex.

[deamon]

Do you talk about Terry from PO or RS ?
In PO he doesn't exist.

[j0Shi]

Still I don't think Terry will be traded. Chemistry is such a big issue this season and you surely won't take away Dirks buddy.

Additionally I see Kidd playing 48min in your rotation. Who is the backup PG?

[deamon]

Did you see even 41mvp link, I don't see Terry in this trade. I didn't write anything about: trade Terry.
I don't see him in in PO rotation, maybe 5min in 4qtr, but in RS he can play 30min per game.
Roddy will be backup for Kidd in PO. He isn't worse than Barea in creating offense. When Stevenson sit, Roddy goes in as SG, when Kidd sit, Roddy plays PG and Stevenson plays SG. Rotation PG/SG:
Kidd (36), Roddy (12)
Stevenson (25), Roddy (23) or Stevenson (20), Roddy (23), Terry (5).

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by deamon

Did you see even 41mvp link, I don't see Terry in this trade. I didn't write anything about: trade Terry.
I don't see him in in PO rotation, maybe 5min in 4qtr, but in RS he can play 30min per game.
Roddy will be backup for Kidd in PO. He isn't worse than Barea in creating offense. When Stevenson sit, Roddy goes in as SG, when Kidd sit, Roddy plays PG and Stevenson plays SG. Rotation PG/SG:
Kidd (36), Roddy (12)
Stevenson (25), Roddy (23) or Stevenson (20), Roddy (23), Terry (5).

Oh yeah, no doubt. JET will only get 5 MINS!!!!!

[j0Shi]

Carlisle was done with Roddy at PG after last season. And with the injury and the lack of playing time ... no way he will ever back up Kidd this season. There could be a lineup of Terry and Roddy in the backcourt where Terry plays PG, but I wouldn't expect anybody else to run the offense in long stretches besides Kidd and JJB.

[41mvp]

Originally Posted by deamon

Did you see even 41mvp link, I don't see Terry in this trade. I didn't write anything about: trade Terry.
I don't see him in in PO rotation, maybe 5min in 4qtr, but in RS he can play 30min per game.
Roddy will be backup for Kidd in PO. He isn't worse than Barea in creating offense. When Stevenson sit, Roddy goes in as SG, when Kidd sit, Roddy plays PG and Stevenson plays SG. Rotation PG/SG:
Kidd (36), Roddy (12)
Stevenson (25), Roddy (23) or Stevenson (20), Roddy (23), Terry (5).

Nice rotation.But I think this is impossible.Terry is big part for our team.He will be play 20-25mpg.And you forgot about his score he scores 15 ppg.He is one of the best 4Q player.
Terry(20)
Roddy(15)
Stev(11)

[deamon]

In RS, but not in PO !
How many times I have to write it?

41mvp one day you write ,,Terry sucks, I hate him, he's nothing in PO, trade him",
other ,,he's big part of our team"

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by deamon

In RS, but not in PO !
How many times I have to write it?

41mvp one day you write ,,Terry sucks, I hate him, he's nothing in PO, trade him",
other ,,he's big part of our team"

None.

We give a sh!t about the regular season around here - if you don't, then go away until the playoffs start. Your posts are a beating to read...



deamon vs. 41mvp:

[Rhylan]

The way to trade for any player that you want is to acquire his crappy younger brother, and then trade the brother for said player, plus late first-rounders.

Worked for the Lakers.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Rhylan

The way to trade for any player that you want is to acquire his crappy younger brother, and then trade the brother for said player, plus late first-rounders.

Worked for the Lakers.

I think Marc Gasol had less to do with that trade than ex-Laker/Grizzlies GM, Jerry West...

Seems like you need to plant yourself a Kevin McHale in another city if you want to get a KG for the price of some magic beans...

We need to get Rolando Blackman a job as the Clippers GM so we can trade Brendan Haywood for Blake Griffin!

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Exactly, I understand there are good players that you grow to love that have to go to make a deal happen and Stevenson fits THAT idea. The problem is, he's too valuable. If you can keep him AND add him with a Jackson or offensive weapon, you're essentially where you were with Butler...and that was right in the mix, as long as chemistry and the intangibles worked.

The Charlotte situation is a little interesting, they've got the obvious strength in their wings but they lack consistent punch in the front line. It's basically to the point where its just going to keep them in the same spot they've been in: bottom tier playoff team and getting knocked out quickly. They also lost Diop to injury too, he's done for the year. For some reason (Probably the Jordan factor), it seems like that's a team you can make an absurd deal and get away with it...look at what they did this summer?

I'm curious to hear what players interest you in terms of an exception-led deal, basically a role-player?

Charlotte is in a horrible spot. Middle of the road with no true superstar. Even Memphis has it better because they stripped it down earlier and have a bunch of youngsters..

Charlotte has few players, a new coach and worse probably an apathetic fan base at the moment. They should have stripped it down two years ago, but just like a budget, you have to make hard choices sometime.

They need to strip it completely down and stockpile as many picks/dollars as they can. It will have to be picks however as no one really wants to go play there either.

The NBA has screwed the pooch imo by allowing the Miami collusion to go unchallenged. They've setup a league that will be primarily a coastal league with an occasional texas/chicago team thrown in for good measure. The rest are toast and if I were an investor, I'd be shorting those franchises..

Only a revenue sharing system will save them.

[Rhylan]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I think Marc Gasol had less to do with that trade than ex-Laker/Grizzlies GM, Jerry West...

Seems like you need to plant yourself a Kevin McHale in another city if you want to get a KG for the price of some magic beans...

We need to get Rolando Blackman a job as the Clippers GM so we can trade Brendan Haywood for Blake Griffin!

West was already gone by the time the deal was made, and he did come out publicly afterward and say that Memphis didn't get enough for Pau, but it smells funny for obvious reasons. Particulary when you see that the two firsts LA gave to Memphis were used to draft mvp41 and Horse.

[Rhylan]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Charlotte is in a horrible spot. Middle of the road with no true superstar. Even Memphis has it better because they stripped it down earlier and have a bunch of youngsters..

Charlotte has few players, a new coach and worse probably an apathetic fan base at the moment. They should have stripped it down two years ago, but just like a budget, you have to make hard choices sometime.

They need to strip it completely down and stockpile as many picks/dollars as they can. It will have to be picks however as no one really wants to go play there either.

The NBA has screwed the pooch imo by allowing the Miami collusion to go unchallenged. They've setup a league that will be primarily a coastal league with an occasional texas/chicago team thrown in for good measure. The rest are toast and if I were an investor, I'd be shorting those franchises..

Only a revenue sharing system will save them.

Charlotte should've never been awarded a new franchise to begin with. NBA had no business expanding.

I think I have begrudgingly decided that Stephen Jackson would be a good guy to get in here. In terms of the big deal.

Small deal using TEs.. still no idea.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by Rhylan

West was already gone by the time the deal was made, and he did come out publicly afterward and say that Memphis didn't get enough for Pau, but it smells funny for obvious reasons. Particulary when you see that the two firsts LA gave to Memphis were used to draft mvp41 and Horse.

True, but he left on good terms, I'm sure, someone came to him to get the 2 sides going.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Rhylan

Charlotte should've never been awarded a new franchise to begin with. NBA had no business expanding.

I think I have begrudgingly decided that Stephen Jackson would be a good guy to get in here. In terms of the big deal.

Small deal using TEs.. still no idea.

Agreed...especially didn't they expand there twice?? Ridiculous...

I also see Stephen Jackson as a good pickup for us. He's a gamer and he's tough. He may be a nut, but I have a lot of faith in the ability of a stable situation to calm down nuts.

And as long as it's not for a ton of prospects, you cut him loose if you need to.

[41mvp]

Originally Posted by deamon

In RS, but not in PO !
How many times I have to write it?

41mvp one day you write ,,Terry sucks, I hate him, he's nothing in PO, trade him",
other ,,he's big part of our team"

True I don't like him.But did you see last game againts Portland.He played very well.He's clutch player we need him.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Rhylan

West was already gone by the time the deal was made, and he did come out publicly afterward and say that Memphis didn't get enough for Pau, but it smells funny for obvious reasons.

West was only 3 months removed from being GM, so he easily could've laid the groundwork...

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by Underdog

West was only 3 months removed from being GM, so he easily could've laid the groundwork...

Yep, when you change jobs, there will be times, when the old place gives you a call for advice, or a where is it? I'm sure in the least, West was called by Memphis ownership to advise on the deal, he probably said Gasol was going to be good......

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by Rhylan

think I have begrudgingly decided that Stephen Jackson would be a good guy to get in here. In terms of the big deal.

I don't trust Jax, I think he's overrated by many Mavs fans (I gather you're not one of them), and if the price were comparable I'd prefer the Mavs went after Prince, yet though it pains me to admit it, I do think the Mavs would be better off swapping out Caron for Stephen than they would be standing pat.

As for TE speculation, I find it to be almost impossible to engage in. I just have no idea what low salary players are likely to be available in give-away deals, and have a hard time imagining that any of those who are available would be worth acquiring.

[mavs777]

I think the reason most of us prefer Jax, is because he should be very cheap to have

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by mavs777

I think the reason most of us prefer Jax, is because he should be very cheap to have

if 27.78Million+27.78 million in tax is considered cheap, I'd like to know what you consider expensive.

Any guy that costs Cuban 18.5mill/year cant be considered cheap

Would it take many assets? Probably salary relief would be enough, but it'd be a 56 million dollar gamble for Cubes, particularly if Jackson doesnt fit in and Butler comes back healthy next year

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

if 27.78Million+27.78 million in tax is considered cheap

Any guy that costs Cuban 18.5mill/year cant be considered cheap

Nah I think he's getting at the cost to get him here, maybe just Caron and 3 millions and the right to swap 2nd rounders. Though Cuban is probably hammering that cost/benefit as well, does Jax get you to June, is the question.

[Kidd Karma]

Been looking at Jax's career numbers. There was a note that he missed last night's game with a hyperextended left knee. Nevertheless, in getting him, you have a starter at the 3, you can more or less go back to the same rotation pre-Caron injury. It adds to our depth, gives us another playmaker on the floor. But his stats, 2.7 TO's career. Albeit his shots should go down here to maybe his first year with GSW, at 13.5 a night. The guy averaged over 6 assists one year in GSW. If the thought is all in, then it's a deal you have to make, especially if the only player you're giving up is Butler.

[rabbitproof]

That's a little bit of funny math, EL. You'd have to subtract Caron's 10M and corresponding tax so that it's a 36M gamble. Still a gamble but a decent price to bring him in given what little non-cash assets you're surrendering (a low pick?).

The Howard-Butler trade exchanged a 10M expiring for a guy with 20M left (that's 20M in tax math) and Howard wasn't yet done for the season yet at the time.

[mavs777]

If Jackson comes her you would expect his assists, shots per game, and turnovers to all go down. He will be asked occasionally to be a play maker but I think where this would help him most is he will get easier catch and shoot shots off of ball rotation when doubles come to Dirk

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by mavs777

If Jackson comes her you would expect his assists, shots per game, and turnovers to all go down. He will be asked occasionally to be a play maker but I think where this would help him most is he will get easier catch and shoot shots off of ball rotation when doubles come to Dirk

FG% and 3PT% will probably go up with the open shots. Case in point 06-07 season when he was shipped to GSW midway through the year, his FG% jumped 2.5 percentage points and the 3ptfg% jumped nearly 5 percentage points. That GSW FG% are the highest of his career. And you know those GSW teams under Nellie was jack it if you're open.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by mavs777

I think the reason most of us prefer Jax, is because he should be very cheap to have

He seems to also really fit imo. Even Kevin Martin who would be a stellar offensive guy sort of reverts us back to being more offense than defense.

Iguodala also fits but the mavs need 3pt shooting on this team (all teams do nowadays). Iggy isn't going to be a diva wade type so some of his driving capabilities will not show fruition.

Now I like iggy but I actually see Jackson as a better fit.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

That's a little bit of funny math, EL. You'd have to subtract Caron's 10M and corresponding tax so that it's a 36M gamble. Still a gamble but a decent price to bring him in given what little non-cash assets you're surrendering (a low pick?).

The Howard-Butler trade exchanged a 10M expiring for a guy with 20M left (that's 20M in tax math) and Howard wasn't yet done for the season yet at the time.

And if you potentially count Butlers future salary the next two years against the 36M its even way less....

Iggy and Jax are even a "better" fit because they are able to play SF. Getting Martin and we are stuck with a guard overload and still just Marion and Stevenson for SF...

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by dude1394

He seems to also really fit imo. Even Kevin Martin who would be a stellar offensive guy sort of reverts us back to being more offense than defense.

Iguodala also fits but the mavs need 3pt shooting on this team (all teams do nowadays). Iggy isn't going to be a diva wade type so some of his driving capabilities will not show fruition.

Now I like iggy but I actually see Jackson as a better fit.

Knocking on wood really hard, if say Dirk goes down, your have Jackson who can start flinging, or even a Jet, same thing. If Kidd goes down, Jax can playmake from the 3 while Boobs and Jet can man the backcourt. Jax has a boatload of skills to make up in any game, any time. Definitely harder to defend if he plays here.

[mavs777]

I totally would prefer Martin, to be honest, but the cost of Jax will be significantly lower I think

[mac222b]

Iggy/Brand
for
Butler/Haywood/DeShawn/Ajinca/DoJo or a 1st maybe

we then trade 1mil. TE for Tony Battie so we have some veteran C depth
DeShawn is waived and back here in 30 days(key to deal)

Brand backup to Dirk and Chandler(against certain teams)plays about 20-30 per game. Brand is scoring pretty efficiently again and is back in the top 10 in rebounding rate per 40. he's no longer an all-star but he's quietly having a really good season.

[BGMaverick9]

I can say right now that the players don't believe it's necessary to do a deal...they want to see Dirk and Roddy back and they feel that could make them good to go.

[dalger]

Originally Posted by mac222b

Iggy/Brand
for
Butler/Haywood/DeShawn/Ajinca/DoJo or a 1st maybe

we then trade 1mil. TE for Tony Battie so we have some veteran C depth
DeShawn is waived and back here in 30 days(key to deal)

Brand backup to Dirk and Chandler(against certain teams)plays about 20-30 per game. Brand is scoring pretty efficiently again and is back in the top 10 in rebounding rate per 40. he's no longer an all-star but he's quietly having a really good season.

The worrying thing about that kind of a massive trade would be the impact it would have on our chemistry on and off the court. Implementing two new players and making it work in a short amount of time would be fairly difficult. Perhaps it's no coincidence that it took Caron and Stevenson until this season to show their true value.

I'd rather try to just go for a one-on-one trade with Caron's contract and some filler material.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I can say right now that the players don't believe it's necessary to do a deal...they want to see Dirk and Roddy back and they feel that could make them good to go.

Sounds about right. Although I appreciate their one-for-all approach, players usually make pretty bad gms..

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by dalger

The worrying thing about that kind of a massive trade would be the impact it would have on our chemistry on and off the court. Implementing two new players and making it work in a short amount of time would be fairly difficult. Perhaps it's no coincidence that it took Caron and Stevenson until this season to show their true value.

I'd rather try to just go for a one-on-one trade with Caron's contract and some filler material.

that is the chief concern. integrating 2 key guys(and Roddy)into the offense in time for the playoffs. i just feel like Brand is playing well and his contract is not quite so horrible. in a year and a half he's another huge expiring deal(contingent upon the new CBA, of course). if i'm the Mavs brass i almost want an overpaid baller like Brand over a half-assed Haywood who could go AWOL any moment(he's been a little better lately i know). and you can bet any team in the playoffs, as soon as they're in the bonus, goes to Hack-A-Wood.

Iggy just a couple of years ago was playing lights out in the playoffs carrying Philly. maybe he's slipped some, maybe he just needs a change of scenery and to be with winners again. I'm not a scout, i don't see enough of the guy to know for sure.

Stevenson was obviously hurt last year and IMHO Carlisle is a little slow on the uptake/stubborn at times(not playing Roddy last year, Stevenson earlier this season, etc.). some of Caron not being fully integrated is squarely on Caron. Iggy is by nature a better playmaker and passer and defender than Caron ever was and doesn't NEED shots to be effective. Caron's lost a step and his game at this point is almost entirely predicated on getting the ball in ISOs. and part of the reason he looked better this season is he was actually hitting 3's at a nice clip. Brand's shooting at 50% and pulling down 9 boards in 34 minutes per game. he immediately becomes our best offensive rebounder and would benefit from playing next to Chandler some(as opposed to Spencer Hawes or Speights two of the softest big guys in the league). Marion has slipped a little as a rebounder and spends more time and energy on the wing guarding swingmen.

the deal isnt perfect and it'd be taking a big swing. and it could be a smaller deal that doesn't involve DeShawn&Haywood is better for chemistry, defense and 3pt. shooting. if Philly was down i think it's at least worth taking a long look at.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Sounds about right. Although I appreciate their one-for-all approach, players usually make pretty bad gms..

do you have Isiah Thomas, Joe Dumars or Kevin McHale or Larry Bird in mind when you say that ?

Elgin Baylor?!