Free Brandan Wright

[sefant77]

Skillset + Health + Confidence + Veteran team =

I like Cardinal, but please less Cardinal and more Wright. Would like to see the guy as primary Dirk backup. At least give it a try. He is wasted as 3rd center.

[DMOC]

I'm agreeing with any plan that implies fewer minutes for Cardinal.

[grndmstr_c]

Odom coming around is the thing that'll get Cardinal out of the rotation. Brandan's play is pretty encouraging, though. If he keeps that up we'll probably see him get more second quarter looks subbing in for Ian against teams that lack a legit big for Wood to battle.

[CadBane]

I've been saying it all year...you've got to try and find Wright 5-10 mpg.

[Underdog]

Haywood
Mahinmi
Wright
Williams
Yi (!)
(Dirk)
(Odom)

That's a lot of damn centers, but I think Wright is definitely making a case for more minutes... The problem is, Haywood and Mahinmi are playing too well to bench right now. Maybe he could get some burn at the 4, but you have Dirk, Odom, Marion and Cardinal (Rick trusts him) ahead in the pecking order, with Yi also battling for scraps.

It might take a trade to bust up this logjam and get Wright some more minutes...

[mavspwnage]

Too bad there aren't five quarters so we could spread those minutes around.

[sike]

Wright has been nothing if not encouraging.

Admittedly I'm not sure he has played many important minutes, but the minutes he HAS played have been full of energy and enthusiasm!

[mavs777]

All the center minutes should go to Mahinmi/Haywood... I understand why Carlisle doesn't want a front court with Wright or Williams with Mahinmi or Haywood, the spacing would be pretty bad but with the way Cardinal has played so far this year i would try it for a small stretch i guess, though at the end of the day lamar needs to get going.

[rabbitproof]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Odom coming around is the thing that'll get Cardinal out of the rotation. Brandan's play is pretty encouraging, though. If he keeps that up we'll probably see him get more second quarter looks subbing in for Ian against teams that lack a legit big for Wood to battle.

I think LO eating Cardinal's minutes is partially true but looking here, it appears a majority of Cardinal's minutes are paired with Odom:

http://www.82games.com/1112/11DAL7.HTM

Not sure how they determine Cardinal is the 3 and Odom is the 4. Either way, I see room for Odom playing Cardinal's 3 minutes and Wright being the 4 guy while Odom is at 3 and Dirk is resting.

Also crazy, Wright has the highest +/- on the team.

[rabbitproof]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Haywood
Mahinmi
Wright
Williams
Yi (!)
(Dirk)
(Odom)

That's a lot of damn centers, but I think Wright is definitely making a case for more minutes... The problem is, Haywood and Mahinmi are playing too well to bench right now. Maybe he could get some burn at the 4, but you have Dirk, Odom, Marion and Cardinal (Rick trusts him) ahead in the pecking order, with Yi also battling for scraps.

It might take a trade to bust up this logjam and get Wright some more minutes...

If Ian can work on his foul trouble and up his stay on court ability to 30+ minutes per game, Haywood is prime trade bait as noted by gmc before (with 3D in mind). Wright/Sean/Yi can mop up the rest of the center minutes.

You'd think the Mavs forward rotation is stout and Odom is a nice asset but if they moved Odom, their forward rotation would be reduced to Dirk/Marion/Cardinal. Maybe they'd reconsider Yi as a 4 then.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

I think LO eating Cardinal's minutes is partially true but looking here, it appears a majority of Cardinal's minutes are paired with Odom:

http://www.82games.com/1112/11DAL7.HTM

Not sure how they determine Cardinal is the 3 and Odom is the 4. Either way, I see room for Odom playing Cardinal's 3 minutes and Wright being the 4 guy while Odom is at 3 and Dirk is resting.

Also crazy, Wright has the highest +/- on the team.

I guess the thing I sort of left unsaid is that I'm really skeptical that Brandan's going to get minutes at PF. Barring trades or injuries, and aside from the occasional night off for Wood or Ian, being a trusted third-string center is probably the ceiling for him this year. IMO Yi's more likely to take (low-importance) forward minutes from Cardinal.

[FINtastic]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

I guess the thing I sort of left unsaid is that I'm really skeptical that Brandan's going to get minutes at PF. Barring trades or injuries, and aside from the occasional night off for Wood or Ian, being a trusted third-string center is probably the ceiling for him this year. IMO Yi's more likely to take (low-importance) forward minutes from Cardinal.

Hopefully by low importance we're talking about garbage minutes in which Wright's already on the floor? I sure hope Rick isn't considering playing Yi over Wright in any situation. I realize that there is some consideration to how certain skillsets fit within the offense, but there has to be a way to get Wright on the floor at PF over the likes of Cardinal and Yi. He's been a PF in every other stop before he arrived at Dallas so I can't imagine it would take a complete overhaul of the offense to find a way to fit Wright in at PF on this particular team.

[grndmstr_c]

Brandon doesn't have a jumper, and to my knowledge isn't a threat attacking off the dribble. He really doesn't fit the mold of a Maverick forward at all.

And I'm puzzled as to why Yi getting minutes over Brandan at forward should be so unpalatable. Yi's clearly the more skilled player, and has the same (arguably a better) pedigree as a high draft pick who's yet to deliver on his promise.

[FINtastic]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Brandon doesn't have a jumper, and to my knowledge isn't a threat attacking off the dribble. He really doesn't fit the mold of a Maverick forward at all.

And I'm puzzled as to why Yi getting minutes over Brandan at forward should be so unpalatable. Yi's clearly the more skilled player, and has the same (arguably a better) pedigree as a high draft pick who's yet to deliver on his promise.

Clearly the more skilled player? He's a guy who has averaged 12.8 points per 36 minutes on 47.6% True Shooting Percentage - he hasn't broken the 50% mark in any of his first four seasons which is pretty appalling. This is from a guy whose offense is supposed to be his calling card. I'm also confused about the arguably better pedigree point. What is this based on, just the fact that both are lotto picks that failed to deliver? I think that would be oversimplifying the matter because Wright has actually been pretty productive in the minutes he's received throughout his career, he's mainly just been stuck in some bad situations and dealing with injuries. Yi has just been dealing with ineffectiveness.

I also believe it's important to clarify how we are defining skilled because I think we are working from different definitions. From what I gather, you seem to be defining it based on having a face-up game (i.e. being better at jump shooting, dribbling, etc). Okay, Yi would have Wright beat in those areas, although I would consider that something of a hollow victory because I don't think Yi does most of those things well enough where I really want him doing them on a regular basis. On the other hand, I consider Brandan Wright to be more skilled because I just think he's more skilled at the game of basketball. I'm quite confident that his low post game is better (that baby hook is beautiful), he seems to cut well to the basket, and I think he generally positions himself well on both ends. I don't know why the definition of being a skilled player in basketball culture these days seems to exclude these things, but I think they are every bit important skills as being a mediocre jump shooter.

As for not fitting the mold of a Maverick forward, well sometimes you just have to play the better player. It's like the Bob Knight told the Portland Trailblazers before the 1984 draft when informed they needed a center, "Then draft Jordan and play him at center!" Okay, Brandan Wright isn't quite in the same league as that Jordan kid was, but you're also not asking him to do something all that out of character. And when it comes to choosing between Yi and Wright, I think we are at the point where we just need to go with the better player.

[Rick41]

Originally Posted by DMOC

I'm agreeing with any plan that implies fewer minutes for Cardinal.

This would be great.

The guy has done very well in the limited number of minutes he's been given in garbage time. How he would perform when it actually counts, we dont know. But I'm sure it wouldn't be worse than what Brian Cardinal is giving us right now.

[Romus]

He must play too much, He's too great !!!
Go Mavs Go !

[OneLove22]

Free Wright to Orlando!

Lets go get D-Wight!!! Keep uppin your trade value bench crew!

[DubOverdose]

I gotta say- figuring out who to give garbage minutes to is great when the discussion is Brandan Wright and Yi. We need to play like we did last night and get a jump on our opponent so our starters/core guys can rest. Wright, Yi, and others should be able to battle to keep a lead better than most bench players in the league.

[jleefilled]

Based on what Del Harris had been saying, I see Yi perhaps developing into a change-of-pace center in the mold of a Vlade Divac for the Mavs. He probably has a long way to go to develop that kind of court savvy and nastiness on the defensive end, but if anyone can do it, I feel like Carlisle might be able to bring that out of him.

Brandon Wright just looks like a beast thus far. I don't even know how to project him, but he certainly shows that he has a nose for the ball on the boards and for block shots. I just wish he had a little more mass to him. He looks like he could get hurt anytime now with the way he plays.

[FINtastic]

One more thing I forgot to say about Wright due to my initial post getting long-winded is that he hardly ever turns the ball over. For his career, he's averaging 1.2 turnovers every 36 minutes, and he's only turned the ball over once in his 44 minutes as a Maverick. That goes back to something I always liked about him in college - he seems to play within himself. You just don't really see him take a lot of horrific shots or commit turnovers trying to be the hero.

[jthig32]

Once Kidd comes back this discussion will pretty much be moot, I would think. With way West is playing, he'll certainly get minutes at SG and play more overall than he was when Kidd was healthy. Carter will then go back to getting minutes at SF, and that will slide Odom back to getting all of the backup PF minutes, assuming he's playing well enough to deserve them.

If you want Wright to get minutes, you better hope he can get them at C, because I don't think there will be any to be had at PF most of the time.

[nowhereman]

I agree with the general sentiment here. His minutes would have to come at Center. But Ian and Brendan have both been pretty good there.

Cardinal at SF can do some important things that we don't know for sure Wright can do yet - space the floor, swing the ball, hit the open jumper. I also feel that his understanding of Mavs defensive principles is on a whole other level.

Wrights done a really good job dominating other teams' scrubs. Hopefully we can see him get some important minutes at some point this season to see what we have. I think Coach will give him the shot at some point, unless he clearly doesn't like what he sees in practice.

[nowhereman]

^In full disclosure though, I had to miss most of the game yesterday. I'm embarrassed to say.

[FINtastic]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Once Kidd comes back this discussion will pretty much be moot, I would think. With way West is playing, he'll certainly get minutes at SG and play more overall than he was when Kidd was healthy. Carter will then go back to getting minutes at SF, and that will slide Odom back to getting all of the backup PF minutes, assuming he's playing well enough to deserve them.

If you want Wright to get minutes, you better hope he can get them at C, because I don't think there will be any to be had at PF most of the time.

I think you're generally right here - Odom should eat up all of the backup PF minutes moving forward. However, given that this board was just having the discussion the other night about whether Odom was ever going to get his act together, there's perhaps some merit to trying to get Brandan as many scrap minutes as he can before Kidd gets back.

I'd like to think Wright provides you a hedge in case Odom continues to flounder here. Now, I'm personally of the belief that Odom is going to return to his former self by the second half of the season, but it's nice to know you have options if he doesn't. I guess the question becomes at what point would Rick consider letting Wright pass Odom on the depth chart?

The secret reason I'm hoping Wright gets as many minutes as possible is that I'd like to see him get a chance to prove he's worth exercising his one year team option on. I don't want him to slip right through the Mavs because he never got a chance to show his ability due to a loaded frontcourt. He's the perfect bargain in my eyes for next year when you take into consideration what the Mavs are trying to do with cap flexibility. I'm hoping they can make as informed a decision about him as possible.

[dude1394]

Kid looks really, really calm out there. Controlled fury it appears. He really looks like a keeper,is he on a one year minimum?

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by jleefilled

Based on what Del Harris had been saying, I see Yi perhaps developing into a change-of-pace center in the mold of a Vlade Divac for the Mavs. He probably has a long way to go to develop that kind of court savvy and nastiness on the defensive end, but if anyone can do it, I feel like Carlisle might be able to bring that out of him.

You're surely joking. In the mold of Vlade Divac? Vlade was a true center, at 7'1, with a mammoth wingspan, a great, smart defender, and on offense, one of the best passer of all-time at his position, with an advanced post game. How was he a change of pace center? Because of the outlet pass? I don't get it. Also, i can't imagine what reminds you of him in Yi. He's a face up PF. Don't get your post, at all.

[FINtastic]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Kid looks really, really calm out there. Controlled fury it appears. He really looks like a keeper,is he on a one year minimum?

The Mav's have a team option on him for next year for $947,907 according to hoopshype.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by FINtastic

Clearly the more skilled player? He's a guy who has averaged 12.8 points per 36 minutes on 47.6% True Shooting Percentage - he hasn't broken the 50% mark in any of his first four seasons which is pretty appalling. This is from a guy whose offense is supposed to be his calling card. I'm also confused about the arguably better pedigree point. What is this based on, just the fact that both are lotto picks that failed to deliver? I think that would be oversimplifying the matter because Wright has actually been pretty productive in the minutes he's received throughout his career, he's mainly just been stuck in some bad situations and dealing with injuries. Yi has just been dealing with ineffectiveness.

I also believe it's important to clarify how we are defining skilled because I think we are working from different definitions. From what I gather, you seem to be defining it based on having a face-up game (i.e. being better at jump shooting, dribbling, etc). Okay, Yi would have Wright beat in those areas, although I would consider that something of a hollow victory because I don't think Yi does most of those things well enough where I really want him doing them on a regular basis. On the other hand, I consider Brandan Wright to be more skilled because I just think he's more skilled at the game of basketball. I'm quite confident that his low post game is better (that baby hook is beautiful), he seems to cut well to the basket, and I think he generally positions himself well on both ends. I don't know why the definition of being a skilled player in basketball culture these days seems to exclude these things, but I think they are every bit important skills as being a mediocre jump shooter.

As for not fitting the mold of a Maverick forward, well sometimes you just have to play the better player. It's like the Bob Knight told the Portland Trailblazers before the 1984 draft when informed they needed a center, "Then draft Jordan and play him at center!" Okay, Brandan Wright isn't quite in the same league as that Jordan kid was, but you're also not asking him to do something all that out of character. And when it comes to choosing between Yi and Wright, I think we are at the point where we just need to go with the better player.

I'm assuming most people, when they think of skill in basketball, think of things that guards can do, including dribbling, shooting, and passing. Neither guy is a standout passer, but I think it's pretty obvious Yi's more comfortable making something happen off the dribble, and it's really no contest shooting-wise when you consider that Yi has range out to the three-point line and Brandan's range is something like 10 feet. Yes there are big-man skills like post footwork and a soft touch around the rim, and Brandan's definitely shown the latter, but even taking account of Brandan's very nice hook shot (which I'm perfectly willing to do), I just don't see how you can argue that Brandan's even equally skilled. Doesn't mean Yi's the better player, just that he's got more in his toolbox. When you're talking about playing forward for the Mavs, I think that counts for something. And frankly, in the kinds of situations where either guy is likely to get consideration for playing time at forward, being the better player won't count for much.

As for pedigree, I bring it up only because neither guy has proven himself a quality rotation NBA player to this point, and so it seems strange to me, given that Yi was a high lotto pick, his status as an international (with the adjustment challenges that brings), and the fact that he's hardly been in ideal situations himself, that you'd be so quick to discount him as an option at PF when the outcome of the game isn't in much doubt. Brandan's definitely had more success in the minutes he's gotten, but the sample size is also ridiculously small for a guy entering his fourth year who's never played on a good team, and a much greater percentage of his minutes have come against opposing benches than is the case for Yi.

At any rate, the essence of my argument is this: 1) the book hasn't been written on either one of these guys, 2) neither is likely to get important minutes at PF, and 3) Yi's better shooting and ball-handling make him the more obvious choice at the position in situations where your outside-the-regular-rotation guys get a chance to play.

Like I said, though, I like what Wright's showing, and I think he's making a good case for some matchup-dependent first-half center minutes. With a power forward rotation that includes an MVP and a 6th-man award winner, and a two-man center rotation that's exceeded almost everyone's expectations, I don't think you can ask for more than that.

[jleefilled]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

You're surely joking. In the mold of Vlade Divac? Vlade was a true center, at 7'1, with a mammoth wingspan, a great, smart defender, and on offense, one of the best passer of all-time at his position, with an advanced post game. How was he a change of pace center? Because of the outlet pass? I don't get it. Also, i can't imagine what reminds you of him in Yi. He's a face up PF. Don't get your post, at all.

I thought I might get some ridicule for this comparison, and honestly, after I posted, I was thinking Brad Miller may have been the better comparison for what I thought Yi could bring to the the Mavs.

Regarding the change-of-pace comment, I was talking about Yi within the Mavs' system rather than Vlade throughout his career.

But man, by the sound of your post, you would think I'm comparing JJ Barea to Vlade. Yi isn't a small man, my friend. Del Harris projects him as a center in the Mavericks rotation. He doesn't have arms of T-rex like Yao. He's young, and I still feel like he may have room to grow into a decent post player.

[tgfan]

I say, with all the centers we already have, develop B. Wright as a backup PF. That's because of his insane athleticism, speed, sure hands. Surely he can develop a mid range jumper, which could be deadly to opponents.

[CadBane]

1. Yi is no way, shape, or form similar to Vlade Divac, other than both were not born in America. Yi is historically a very poor passer. Comparing him to selfless, great passers like Divac and Miller is...weird.

2. Fin is 100% right. Wright is a more talented player than Yi, rather easily. Yi's one strength is his face-up game/range, and he's repeatedly not proven that skill in the big league.

[jleefilled]

Originally Posted by CadBane

1. Yi is no way, shape, or form similar to Vlade Divac, other than both were not born in America. Yi is historically a very poor passer. Comparing him to selfless, great passers like Divac and Miller is...weird.

Really, no shape or form, eh? From what I remember, Vlade was a highly skilled big in his time. He had a great post game, and he could hit the open jump shot. Yi is also a highly skilled big man. I feel like he can develop a post game, and I know for damn sure he can hit the open jump shot.

He may not be able to pass as well as the "selfless" Brad Miller, but I don't think it's that weird to imagine he can get minutes on the Mavericks trying to emulate some of the things a Brad Miller brought to the game -- set good screens, grab rebounds, shoot open set shots, and play gritty defense.

And please keep in mind, I'm trying to talk about what Yi can do to contribute to the Mavericks. I'm not talking about what he's been. Obviously, what he's been doing hasn't been working out for him that well so far in his career.

[BGMaverick9]

Was it New Orleans or Detroit when he got actual minutes in the first half?

[Kante]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Was it New Orleans or Detroit when he got actual minutes in the first half?

New Orleans with about 5:30 to go in the 2nd quarter...

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Kante

New Orleans with about 5:30 to go in the 2nd quarter...

Thanks

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by jleefilled

Really, no shape or form, eh? From what I remember, Vlade was a highly skilled big in his time. He had a great post game, and he could hit the open jump shot. Yi is also a highly skilled big man. I feel like he can develop a post game, and I know for damn sure he can hit the open jump shot.

He may not be able to pass as well as the "selfless" Brad Miller, but I don't think it's that weird to imagine he can get minutes on the Mavericks trying to emulate some of the things a Brad Miller brought to the game -- set good screens, grab rebounds, shoot open set shots, and play gritty defense.

And please keep in mind, I'm trying to talk about what Yi can do to contribute to the Mavericks. I'm not talking about what he's been. Obviously, what he's been doing hasn't been working out for him that well so far in his career.

Not sure why you seem to be scoffing at Brad Miller be "selfless".

Miller has put up assist years of:

4.3
3.9
4.7
3.6
3.7
3.3

That's elite for a big (close to Vlade, Webber, KG territory).

Yi is NOT known for being a passer. AT ALL. His Per 36 min. career high is 1.5 assists per game.

There is simply no comparison to be had between Yi and Divac/Miller. None. Yi has the ability to hit the jump shot...but he's a career 41% shooter. His post game (aside from facing up) is essentially non-existent. Why do you arbitrarily think that he can emulate one of the craftiest post players of our time, in Divac?

I'm not saying Yi can't be a solid player...but he's not in the mold of Divac/Miller. I could see him more as a Maurice Taylor type player (look him up if you don't know him.)

[jleefilled]

Originally Posted by CadBane

Why do you arbitrarily think that he can emulate one of the craftiest post players of our time, in Divac?

I'm not saying Yi can't be a solid player...but he's not in the mold of Divac/Miller. I could see him more as a Maurice Taylor type player (look him up if you don't know him.)

Again, the initial Divac comparison for what Yi could develop into was probably a poor one because of the excellent post game that Vlade had. Maybe the Miller comparison is a poor one as well, but I do think Miller benefited from being in the Kings' system to put up some of those gaudy assist numbers. Other than passing -- which if you reread my post, I did not mention -- I still feel like Yi could emulate some of the things that Brad Miller brought to the table. Agree to disagree? I certainly think Yi can do a lot more than Miller as far as putting the ball in the basket.

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by jleefilled

Again, the initial Divac comparison for what Yi could develop into was probably a poor one because of the excellent post game that Vlade had. Maybe the Miller comparison is a poor one as well, but I do think Miller benefited from being in the Kings' system to put up some of those gaudy assist numbers. Other than passing -- which if you reread my post, I did not mention -- I still feel like Yi could emulate some of the things that Brad Miller brought to the table. Agree to disagree? I certainly think Yi can do a lot more than Miller as far as putting the ball in the basket.

Well, I just don't think they're similar players. Also, a few of those Brad Miller high assist years were with Chicago. Miller was just a heady, crafty player who was a good passer, solid rebounder, and had a nice jumper.

Yi is way more athletic than Miller. Quicker, better leaper, better off the dribble.

The only similarity I see is the ability to shoot the jumper. Like I said, I think a better comparison for Yi is Maurice Taylor. Solid mid-range game, can face-up, take you off the dribble a little, decent rebounder. That's what I think Yi is. Maybe a poor man's Keith Van Horn as well.

[jleefilled]

Originally Posted by CadBane

Well, I just don't think they're similar players. Also, a few of those Brad Miller high assist years were with Chicago. Miller was just a heady, crafty player who was a good passer, solid rebounder, and had a nice jumper.

Yi is way more athletic than Miller. Quicker, better leaper, better off the dribble.

The only similarity I see is the ability to shoot the jumper. Like I said, I think a better comparison for Yi is Maurice Taylor. Solid mid-range game, can face-up, take you off the dribble a little, decent rebounder. That's what I think Yi is. Maybe a poor man's Keith Van Horn as well.

I definitely agree that Yi probably is and has been much more in the mold of KVH rather than Miller thus far in his career. But when Del Harris projected Yi to maybe crack the center rotation for the Mavericks, I doubt -- with all due respect to Keith -- he said that because Yi would bring a KVH-like game at center. I think Carlisle mentioned that he considers Yi a prospect, and I imagine he would envision Yi growing into a more traditional center-type like a Miller.

[rabbitproof]

Yi isn't a real 5. He's a 5 in the same way Aldridge is a 5. I think he's a poor man's LA.