02-05-2012, 03:00 PM
|
#1
|
Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hudson, WI
Posts: 3,938
|
All-in on Dwight now?
Now I'm in the camp that believes that we WILL land Dwight during the offseason, likely in some kind of sign-and-trade deal, but in the event that we want to go all-in on the rest of this season, what do you guys think about these deals (assuming they're done simultaneously)?
Dallas Trades
Lamar Odom
Orlando Trades
Hedo Turkoglu
Dallas Trades
Jason Terry
Brandan Haywood
Roddy Beaubois
Ian Mahinmi
Orlando Trades
Dwight Howard
Daniel Orton
And if they need us to, we can use trade exceptions to take Duhon and/or Clark/Q-Rich off their hands. Gives us a pretty scary core:
Kidd/Delonte/Duhon
Carter/Jones/(Richardson)
Marion/Hedo/(Clark)
Dirk/Yi/Cardinal
Dwight/Wright/Williams/Orton
And we'd have Kidd/Delonte/Yi/Cardinal/Williams/Orton coming off the cap and able to be brought back at reasonable deals if we need them. Otherwise we can reload with younger pieces and take another couple of whacks at a title under Dirk completely drops off/retires.
|
|
|
02-05-2012, 03:13 PM
|
#2
|
Platinum Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Plano, Tx
Posts: 2,227
|
edit. no I dont think this will happen
__________________
Last edited by Ninkobei; 02-05-2012 at 03:16 PM.
|
|
|
02-05-2012, 09:35 PM
|
#3
|
Guru
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Brasil
Posts: 15,401
|
Magic say no thanks and take Bynum or a Nets package including Lopez+pick
|
|
|
02-06-2012, 01:42 PM
|
#4
|
Diamond Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,862
|
Howard says he's not resigning with the Lakers. Bryant said he's the 3rd option and will always be behind him until he's done. Plus I think the Shaq thing is helping to light the bridge to LA. NJ's still scary to me, especially when Orlando sees the deadline on the horizon, gets desperate to get 75cents on the dollar rather than 25cents on the dollar in the summer.
|
|
|
02-06-2012, 03:28 PM
|
#5
|
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 210
|
I don't think Mark/Donnie will be stupid enough to take Hedo's lunatic contract. No team other than the desperate Lakers (who can only trade to get D12) should be willing to take 10+ million contract at all. In the end I think we will see the Magic trading Dwight not including any bad contracts or just letting him walk
|
|
|
02-06-2012, 03:36 PM
|
#6
|
Lazy Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lazytown
Posts: 18,721
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firnen
I don't think Mark/Donnie will be stupid enough to take Hedo's lunatic contract. No team other than the desperate Lakers (who can only trade to get D12) should be willing to take 10+ million contract at all. In the end I think we will see the Magic trading Dwight not including any bad contracts or just letting him walk
|
Um...no.
Unless the Mavs have a 100% GUARANTEE from Howard AND Deron Williams that they're going to sign with the Mavs this summer, the Mavs would fall all over themselves to take back Turkoglu if it meant getting Dwight Howard.
|
|
|
02-06-2012, 03:40 PM
|
#7
|
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 210
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jthig32
Um...no.
Unless the Mavs have a 100% GUARANTEE from Howard AND Deron Williams that they're going to sign with the Mavs this summer, the Mavs would fall all over themselves to take back Turkoglu if it meant getting Dwight Howard.
|
if they take Hedos contract they cant sign Deron in the offseason. -> Dwight could simply opt out of his contract and sign with the Nets to play with Deron
|
|
|
02-06-2012, 04:06 PM
|
#8
|
Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Just outside the Metroplex
Posts: 5,539
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firnen
if they take Hedos contract they cant sign Deron in the offseason. -> Dwight could simply opt out of his contract and sign with the Nets to play with Deron
|
If they did this and traded for D12, couldn't they simply amnesty Hedo to get the room to sign Deron?
__________________
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have". Gerald Ford
"Life's tough, it's even tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
-Capt. Bob "Wolf" Johnson
|
|
|
02-06-2012, 04:19 PM
|
#9
|
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 210
|
you can only amnesty players under contract with your team at the start of the new CBA. -> noone can amnesty Hedo (Magic used their AC on Arenas)
|
|
|
02-06-2012, 04:25 PM
|
#10
|
Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hudson, WI
Posts: 3,938
|
To be honest, it it was between A) Having a 100% guarantee that we land Dwight via trade as long as we take Hedo B) Not making the trade and rolling the dice that we can sign one or both of Dwight/Deron
I'm going A all day long. For me, this offseason is about getting Dwight for sure and Deron if everything else falls into place perfectly. If we need to take Hedo to guarantee that we get Dwight, I'm down.
FWIW, Hedo is making only a little more than Odom, and producing a LOT more.
|
|
|
02-06-2012, 04:35 PM
|
#11
|
Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Just outside the Metroplex
Posts: 5,539
|
Looks to me like if you did that, then you have to amnesty Marion and Hedo is your starting SF -- if you had even a small chance at getting Deron.
__________________
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have". Gerald Ford
"Life's tough, it's even tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
-Capt. Bob "Wolf" Johnson
|
|
|
02-06-2012, 04:36 PM
|
#12
|
Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hudson, WI
Posts: 3,938
|
Unless a can't-miss defensive stud becomes available to us, I'd rather keep Matrix around.
|
|
|
02-06-2012, 04:43 PM
|
#13
|
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 210
|
you would buy Hedo's contract for 3 years to rent Howard for maybe 50 games?
Dwight and Deron said they would only sign extensions with mavs, nets etc... which means they guarantee they wont sign with teams not on their lists.
They haven't guranteed that they sign extensions with teams on their list -> see differnt Howard<-> lakers stories
|
|
|
02-06-2012, 05:21 PM
|
#14
|
Lazy Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lazytown
Posts: 18,721
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firnen
you would buy Hedo's contract for 3 years to rent Howard for maybe 50 games?
Dwight and Deron said they would only sign extensions with mavs, nets etc... which means they guarantee they wont sign with teams not on their lists.
They haven't guranteed that they sign extensions with teams on their list -> see differnt Howard<-> lakers stories
|
You are correct, the Mavs would not take on Hedo if they didn't have assurances that Dwight would re-sign.
But Dwight Howard will re-sign here if he's traded here. He's not passing up that extra money to leave here and sign with NJ.
|
|
|
02-07-2012, 02:04 AM
|
#15
|
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 210
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jthig32
But Dwight Howard will re-sign here if he's traded here. He's not passing up that extra money to leave here and sign with NJ.
|
Could he get extra money? I have read some articles about the Lakers/Howard scenario and to me it seemed like the new CBA prohibits that.
Correct me if I got this wrong, but I thought:
1. no sign and trade for bird years/raises
2. if you want to resign/extend a player with bird years/raises he has to qualify for bird rights and has to be with your team for at least 6 months
would be nice to hear from you - maybe I got it wrong because my english is not as good as I thought
Last edited by Firnen; 02-07-2012 at 02:06 AM.
|
|
|
02-07-2012, 09:22 AM
|
#16
|
Lazy Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lazytown
Posts: 18,721
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firnen
Could he get extra money? I have read some articles about the Lakers/Howard scenario and to me it seemed like the new CBA prohibits that.
Correct me if I got this wrong, but I thought:
1. no sign and trade for bird years/raises
2. if you want to resign/extend a player with bird years/raises he has to qualify for bird rights and has to be with your team for at least 6 months
would be nice to hear from you - maybe I got it wrong because my english is not as good as I thought
|
When a player is traded his Bird rights move with him. So if he opts out of his contract, whatever team traded for him will have his Bird rights and can sign him to the extra season with bigger raises.
The six moth waiting period is for an extension. If he opts out of his contract and becomes a free agent there is no waiting period to use his Bird rights.
|
|
|
02-07-2012, 03:17 PM
|
#17
|
Diamond Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,862
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firnen
you would buy Hedo's contract for 3 years to rent Howard for maybe 50 games?
Dwight and Deron said they would only sign extensions with mavs, nets etc... which means they guarantee they wont sign with teams not on their lists.
They haven't guranteed that they sign extensions with teams on their list -> see differnt Howard<-> lakers stories
|
I don't think it's a full out rental, we will re invent the team around him. Kobe already talked to him about his plans with Dwight and taht was to be a 3rd option, thus Howard cooled on resigning with the Lakers. Dirk and no one in the Mavs organization has approached Dwight about their plans for Howard. I think once he balls with RC, he will want to resign....i mean, geez, the Nets or Dallas?
|
|
|
02-07-2012, 03:32 PM
|
#18
|
Golden Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,230
|
who says we gotta trade to get him? we're just going to sign him outright
|
|
|
02-07-2012, 07:00 PM
|
#19
|
Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 42,966
|
In our case, it doesnt matter much how we get him. There are only really three options that I see
A) We trade for him, mortgage our other assets to make cap room and take a shot at D-Will. If we land him then we have Dirk, Howard and Williams with no cap space to fill the other 9 roster spots. If D-Will doesn't sign, then we may have Howard walk away and we are left in rebuilding mode with nothing to build with other than cap room.
B) We trade away Haywood or Marion, waive the other and renounce everyone else to sign both guys this summer. We either sign both or we miss out on both. If we sign them, we have Dirk, Howard and D-Will and no cap room but we still have our draft picks. If we miss out, then we have Dirk, picks and a lot of cap room but also a lot of roster spots to fill. It may be a rebuild but a rebuild with a few more resources. We may be able to re-sign Terry, Mahinmi and others in free-agency.
C) We fail to make a trade for either one and also don't clear the cap space for both to have near-max salaries. We stay with the team and look for a PG and some other scraps next year.
In any case, we cannot take back Hedo. If we take Hedo, we have no chance at making a run at D-Will in free-agency with Hedo on our books and if we can't make a run at D-Will, why would Howard want to stay in Dallas? Dirk, Hedo and Howard do not a complete roster make.
If we want either of them, we are going to have to either dump or trade our entire roster outside Dirk to do so. The only net difference between trading for one and dumping everything to sign them both is that a trade will also cost us our future picks as well. Both are risky moves, both will cost us the entire roster. Trading just costs us more as long as we still have the space to pick up D-Williams.
Last edited by EricaLubarsky; 02-07-2012 at 07:12 PM.
|
|
|
02-07-2012, 07:39 PM
|
#20
|
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 210
|
@EricaLubarsky
B) We trade away Haywood or Marion, waive the other and renounce everyone else to sign both guys this summer. We either sign both or we miss out on both. If we sign them, we have Dirk, Howard and D-Will and no cap room but we still have our draft picks. If we miss out, then we have Dirk, picks and a lot of cap room but also a lot of roster spots to fill. It may be a rebuild but a rebuild with a few more resources. We may be able to re-sign Terry, Mahinmi and others in free-agency.
You could trade away or waive the players during the Free Agency Period just after Williams and Howard would have agreed to sign in Dallas - There isnt much risk in this one. (you can't trade for expiring contracts in these scenario though -> need to find a team with capspace)
In any case, we cannot take back Hedo. If we take Hedo, we have no chance at making a run at D-Will in free-agency with Hedo on our books and if we can't make a run at D-Will, why would Howard want to stay in Dallas? Dirk, Hedo and Howard do not a complete roster make.
Right. Don't believe D12 wants to play here with just Dirk, maybe Terry and Kidd (and Hedo)
Last edited by Firnen; 02-07-2012 at 07:41 PM.
|
|
|
02-07-2012, 08:19 PM
|
#21
|
Lazy Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lazytown
Posts: 18,721
|
So Howard wants to play in NJ with Deron and....not much...but he doesn't want to play in Dallas with the majority of this roster intact? That doesn't make sense, people. I'm not going to call it a lock or anything, but it's ridiculous to act like Dwight wouldn't stay here if we traded for him. The odds are very high that he would.
Taking less money to get away from Orlando is one thing. Taking less money to leave Dallas, one of the three places he's already mentioned he wants to be? Come on.
Also, Erica, the Mavs can wait to see who they can get to sign here before making all of their roster trimming moves. The only move that would have to be made ahead of time is Odom. There's no way the Mavs are going to trade away all of their assets for nothing, amnesty Haywood and be left with a bag. Not going to happen.
Last edited by jthig32; 02-07-2012 at 08:24 PM.
|
|
|
02-09-2012, 02:04 PM
|
#22
|
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 210
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jthig32
When a player is traded his Bird rights move with him. So if he opts out of his contract, whatever team traded for him will have his Bird rights and can sign him to the extra season with bigger raises.
The six moth waiting period is for an extension. If he opts out of his contract and becomes a free agent there is no waiting period to use his Bird rights.
|
What about this one?
Matt Seems obligatory, but with so many pieces and a very active GM, what are the latest Rocket trade rumors? Why don’t they just go for broke and bring in Dwight (they have the trade assets), and see if he’s really willing to leave the $30+million in the offseason….or if he’d rather convince Deron Williams to come to Houston. Please give me some good news.
Steve Kyler (Hoopsworld)
Dwight needed to be traded before January 1st to be eligible for a full value contract. If he is traded now or in July, he’s losing guaranteed money. The only team that can give Dwight the most guaranteed money is Orlando… they locked that in January 1st, because you have to be with your team for 6 months to get the full value possible.
Keep in mind, Orlando can do a five year deal, everyone else can do a four year deal… do you really believe Dwight won’t get that fifth year the very minute he is eligible if he leaves Orlando?… Orlando can guarantee it, other teams would have to wait… either way unless Dwight has a career ending injury, he’ll get his money… there just is risk if he leaves Orlando.
The Rockets are active, but they have their pieces set too high on what they want… I see them making a deal, but I am not sure they have the deal they will make in their sights yet.
|
|
|
02-09-2012, 04:01 PM
|
#23
|
Lazy Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lazytown
Posts: 18,721
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firnen
What about this one?
Matt Seems obligatory, but with so many pieces and a very active GM, what are the latest Rocket trade rumors? Why don’t they just go for broke and bring in Dwight (they have the trade assets), and see if he’s really willing to leave the $30+million in the offseason….or if he’d rather convince Deron Williams to come to Houston. Please give me some good news.
Steve Kyler (Hoopsworld)
Dwight needed to be traded before January 1st to be eligible for a full value contract. If he is traded now or in July, he’s losing guaranteed money. The only team that can give Dwight the most guaranteed money is Orlando… they locked that in January 1st, because you have to be with your team for 6 months to get the full value possible.
Keep in mind, Orlando can do a five year deal, everyone else can do a four year deal… do you really believe Dwight won’t get that fifth year the very minute he is eligible if he leaves Orlando?… Orlando can guarantee it, other teams would have to wait… either way unless Dwight has a career ending injury, he’ll get his money… there just is risk if he leaves Orlando.
The Rockets are active, but they have their pieces set too high on what they want… I see them making a deal, but I am not sure they have the deal they will make in their sights yet.
|
He's wrong. You have to be with your team for six months to sign a full value extension. But when the off season gets here he can opt out of his contract and either the Magic or whatever team traded for him will have his Bird rights and can sign him to a max value deal.
Some references:
Quote:
If a trade had been completed by Dec. 30 it would have left a small window to sign a larger extension before June 30, but even this would have been too limiting. Howard could have added only two new years with 4.5 percent raises -- so he still would have been better off by becoming a free agent this summer. Despite rumors to the contrary, Howard did not lose a significant amount of money when he was not traded by Dec. 30. This deadline only mattered if Howard was going to sign an extension.
|
Quote:
Finally, the Magic could trade Howard to a team that meets his approval on or before March 15. He would exercise his early-termination option in June, then re-sign with that team as a free agent. Since Howard's Bird rights are traded with him, he would be eligible for the largest possible contract, with five years and 7.5 percent raises ($109.2 million total).
|
Coon
|
|
|
02-09-2012, 04:42 PM
|
#24
|
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 210
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jthig32
He's wrong. You have to be with your team for six months to sign a full value extension. But when the off season gets here he can opt out of his contract and either the Magic or whatever team traded for him will have his Bird rights and can sign him to a max value deal.
Some references:
[...]
Coon
|
Well, coon is the expert. It doesn't look as good for the Mavs as I thought, but I' still optimistic we can get him in FA this summer
|
|
|
03-15-2012, 01:53 AM
|
#25
|
Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 49
|
looks like DHoward will stay another year in Orlando...
|
|
|
03-16-2012, 12:08 AM
|
#26
|
Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hudson, WI
Posts: 3,938
|
That REALLY helps our chances of making Team 3D work in Dallas. I can't wait until Deron is signed.
|
|
|
03-16-2012, 12:23 AM
|
#27
|
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 194
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by spreedom
That REALLY helps our chances of making Team 3D work in Dallas. I can't wait until Deron is signed.
|
But if Orlando continues to run with this good streak they have going and carry it into a better season next year then you know Dwight will stay. Dallas is better off looking for another center, take Denvers route and don't stack up on superstars but get top 15 players across the board instead.
Last edited by 4DN1; 03-16-2012 at 12:42 AM.
|
|
|
03-16-2012, 12:36 AM
|
#28
|
Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hudson, WI
Posts: 3,938
|
Oh I agree, I'd rather have 9 very good players than three great players and junk around them. I would love to see Dwight stay with Orlando because I really appreciate guys who stick with it through thick and thin, but I'd love even more to see him suiting up for us.
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:14 AM.
|