Eddie Jones defender 1st, scorer second. - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

jayC · 02-08-2003, 09:55 AM

We have plenty of guys who can score and are money at it. But we could use a guy that can shut people down and score second. Eddie Jones our answer to Doug Christie and Kobe Bryant. The problem for the mavs is they always have to substitue scoring for defense. They wouldn't have do to that at all, eddie was a member of the all defensive second team and is a good scorer. A big guy probably won't come here for a little guy but a guard for a guard works Finley for Eddie Jones.

Why miami does it? They are close to last in the league in scoring and need a leadership to take them out of mediocrity.

Dallas does it? Too many times this year when fin hasn't dit up. For this team to go places they need a shut down defender that can start every night. We don't have that right know. Eddie isn't a liability on offense either.

Nick is still to valuable to the mavericks, he comes through with big games. And when nash isn't on he can fill in for the Mavericks without losing a beat.

madape · 02-08-2003, 10:10 AM

Yes, we should build ourselves in the image of the Miami Heat. They seem to have it right...

jayC · 02-08-2003, 10:28 AM

A few years ago they did with Anthony Mason, Jamal Mashburn, Eddie Jones, Brian Grant and All-star Alonzo Mourning. Defense wins championships and while we have improved not nearly enough. Peja could do what he wanted against Finley. None of our scorers are great man defenders so we have to go zone, and some teams can shoot right over the zone Sacramento. I don't want to be a one or two round and out teams. The Luxury tax hurt them big time.

Madape, we won't win a title until we have good to great man on defenders this team doesn't have any. Eddie Jones is that guy. How many times this year has finley taken a charge or made a defensive play and you said wow he can play defense. The name of the game is defense that's how you win it all. Our man on defenders are so bad we have to double team every chance we get leaving peja or whatever great shooter wide open. Its sick that without Webber, Jackson or pollard we can't win against the kings let alone blow them out. We need to make a change they have beaten us the last 6 times and you might as well send nellie packing to Hawaii that's where he and the team should go. "ou are what you are" Bill Parcells.

The kings love jayson williams but he didn't play defense this is that kind of trade. We have to substiute to get a stop. Our guys are either defensive specialist or scorers not both eddie jones is both. Just for finley I do it.

madape · 02-08-2003, 10:41 AM

1) Defense does not win championships
2) Miami has never even PLAYED in a championship.
3) Eddie Jones has never even PLAYED in a championship.
4) Eddie Jones makes more money than he's worth, and would cost us one of our best players to aquire.
5) Brian Grant is one of the most overrated players in the NBA right now.

jayC · 02-08-2003, 10:47 AM

Really Baltimore Ravens.
LA Lakers have better Man on defenders
The Chicago Bulls Scottie Pippen and MJ nine time defensive players of the year
Even the cowboys were great defensive teams not exclusively but they could shut teams down.
The kings are a good defensive team.

Finley is our barely third best players okay then plug in Nick at Nite. First time for everything just haven't had a team like Dallas. Who is literally just one trade away. Name a team that has won it all without at least a top five defense. Dallas Stars lead the league in Goals and GAA. When have we shut a great offensive team down in crunch time.

LRB · 02-08-2003, 12:45 PM

JayC Eddie Jones would be a great pickup and I truely believe that he would help us in lots of areas. But giving up Fin for him is too high a price IMO. I have a feeling that Miami may want too much for him. We'll have to wait and see. I could see giving up Nick, but not Fin.

centrlpark08 · 02-08-2003, 02:05 PM

I would have to agree with you LRB, finley is just to much to give up on a player like jones. I would give up NVE for jones but not finley. Jayc everything you said about jones is right but your wrong about giving up finley. Anyways would the heat give up jones for NVE?

Bayliss · 02-08-2003, 04:18 PM

Eddie Jones for Fin be me too hefty a price tag. But Jones/Grant for Fin/NVE (or filler) wouldn't be.

I know others believe Brian Grant is a spare, but Grant brings us something more than Howard ever did. And that is a truly good defensive 4 and a good rebounder.

Jones could guard just about any swingmen and provide adequate scoring to make up for Fin's ability to score.

A lineup of:
Nash
Jones
Dirk
Grant
Bradley

Reserves
AJ
Raja/Griff
Najera
Raef

That is a very well rounded and balanced lineup. It has 3 good rebounders (Dirk, Bradley, and Grant). It has three good on the ball defenders: Jones, Grant and (Dirk (he is now). It has good scoring punch with Dirk, Nash, and Jones. It has extreme toughness with Grant and Jones. And off the bench we have good scorers and defensemen.

If we could get Jones and Grant for a combination of Fin, NVE, and or filler... I'd do it in a heartbeat.

David · 02-08-2003, 04:20 PM

<< JayC Eddie Jones would be a great pickup and I truely believe that he would help us in lots of areas. But giving up Fin for him is too high a price IMO. I have a feeling that Miami may want too much for him. We'll have to wait and see. I could see giving up Nick, but not Fin. >>

I don't know what Miami would want for Eddie Jones but with his salary, a team would have to give up a lot of salary in return. That would mean one of the Big Three, Raef or NVE or most of the bench combined to add up to his salary.

OutletPass · 02-08-2003, 06:25 PM

Ok...I propose that we send them NVE, Esch, Taw, Griffin, and Kepper. Any takers ?

Seriously, I'd love to see Jones here, but, as with all of the other trade talk, the Mavs are a little hamstrung at the moment. With the cap/luxury tax threshold being lowered, more teams are looking for expiring contracts...and we're pretty short in that department...

Seems like we're just going to have to dance with the one who brung us for a while. And that's not entirely a bad thing. Despite my own personal bias towards another rebounder/defender, I like LRB's idea of getting Corey Maggette if possible. Maybe not the answer, but would make another interesting piece to our puzzle.

centrlpark08 · 02-08-2003, 08:35 PM

How much money will we have for the summer to sign some big named free agents? Also with the players on the team that will be free agents how much money will we have?

David · 02-08-2003, 09:33 PM

The Mavs will have a $4.5M exception and I think another exception of $2.something million. The Mavs are over the cap.

centrlpark08 · 02-08-2003, 09:36 PM

So does this mean we would have to sign minimum contract players?

jayC · 02-09-2003, 12:52 AM

Except if four main teams have salary cap space they aren't going to do any trades to add players that would prevent them from at least trying to make a splash. Miami is over the cap but with ZO departing 20 million off the books they will at least be able to make another move. This team is rebuilding and nick or finley is their guy. They will have about 6 million dollars to do something. So its irrelevant. Denver, Utah, and San Antonio aren't going to trade for anyone to add contracts so some other team can get cap space. I think the whole cap clearing space is a media creation. How is it the cap will go down when ESPN paid about 74 million more for its contract than NBC did for its NBA coverage.

LRB · 02-09-2003, 12:55 AM

<< I think the whole cap clearing space is a media creation. How is it the cap will go down when ESPN paid about 74 million more for its contract than NBC did for its NBA coverage.
>>

Well that money was eaten up by David Stern his new toupees. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

mavs playa · 02-09-2003, 03:02 AM

jayC, my thoughts exactly.

I previously said that our Big 3 not being good individual defenders hinders us from being a good man to man defensive team. Some say they have to preserve themselves for the offense end and the up and down game. I just think they don't have the instincts, reaction, toughness it takes to play defense consistently on every possession. Some players have it and some don't. At their age, you can't really improve on these characteristics.

With that said, I do believe it would help big time if just one of the Big 3 was a solid defender or possibly replaced with a solid defender. Finley is very over-rated on defense. He gives the impression that he is playing solid d with his stance and intense look, but then a player will blow right past him, etc.

I agree with some of you that say Finley is more valuable than Eddie Jones because of the numbers he puts up. However, I think Jones is the better fit for the Mavs in improving their perimeter d without sacrificing too much, if any, offense. Sometimes, it isn't too bad an idea to give something of more value than you receive because it may be the right piece the team needs to take the next step.

OutletPass · 02-09-2003, 03:39 AM

JayC -

From what I've been reading, and I want you to take it with a grain of salt as I do, the reason for the cap being lowered by about $1 million this next year is because, on the whole, the NBA teams are losing money on an operating basis. The economy and the decline in "luxury suite" rentals is the named culprit.

I don't believe everything that I read and the whole thing could be for some other reason, but that's what's being stated. Who knows what the real truth is. Baseball has been pleading poverty for quite a while now, but without their books being open to public scrutiny, as with public corporations, who knows what the truth is.

All I can really say is that all reports point to the cap going down raather than up, as most people expected. What this is going to do to the trading enviroment is anyone's guess. LRB and I were discussing this earlier tonight...I sure wish that we were back in the "old days" when talent vs. talent was the main consideration in trading. But we're not...and I doubt that we'll get back to that scheme of things for a very long time.

MFFL · 02-09-2003, 11:19 AM

If Finley, NVE, or Nash is traded this season then we can forget about a championship this season. And I don't want to be a "next year's champion" - I want the Mavs to win it now.

jayC · 02-09-2003, 03:44 PM

My point is that Miami will have money under the cap even with giant contracts of Eddie Jones and Brian Grant. They will be able to sign a free agent for like 7 million dollars. So in effect it doesn't matter. Nick Van Exel has one less year on his contract and a cheaper contract than Eddie Jones. Add 3 million dollars max to the deal it makes the deal even better for Miami. So they pay even less of nick's contract. They can't get a better deal than that talent and vs. freeing money.

Salary Eddie Jones 11.2 million over 4 years vs. Nick 10million over 3 years.

Getting a little more defensive MFFL have to have good man on man defenders to win it all we didn't shut anyone down. Eddie can play the point forward for the mavs.

kg_veteran · 02-09-2003, 04:54 PM

I think I'd do Van Exel for Grant, but that's about it. I'm with MFFL in that I want to keep the Big Three here so that the Mavs have the best possible chance to win the title this year.

FlyinGK22 · 02-09-2003, 06:46 PM

<< But we could use a guy that can shut people down and score second >>

adrian griffin is that guy! although he doesnt contibute a lot on the offensive side, he sure does a lot on defense.

centrlpark08 · 02-09-2003, 08:29 PM

we should just wait until the summer. we could sign some free agents that could play offense and defense so i'm not worried if the mavs are that desperate to trade this year.