Darren Collison discussion thread

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by Fragism

Barea's first 14 games of the 10-11 season:

FG%: .343
3P%: .143
TS%: .416
eFG%: .366
TOV%: 13.3
AST%: 24.8

Collison's first 14 games of the 12-13 season:

FG%: .436
3P%: .333
TS%: .528
eFG%: .456
TOV%: 16.5
AST%: 30.6

This isn't exactly fair either, Barea had a super slow start that season, and Collison actually started this season great, and produced nice numbers, on nice efficiency in the first 5 games. Anyway, Collison is a better player, unfortunately, that still don't mean much. They are both terrible (and net negative) as starting point guards for a playoff team.

[Fragism]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

This isn't exactly fair either, Barea had a super slow start that season, and Collison actually started this season great, and produced nice numbers, on nice efficiency in the first 5 games. Anyway, Collison is a better player, unfortunately, that still don't mean much. They are both terrible (and net negative) as starting point guards for a playoff team.

I think you missed my point which was that 14 games isn't enough to judge how a player will look for the rest of the season.

Barea looked like garbage for 14 games at the start of the season and then was a bright spot by the playoffs.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by Fragism

I think you missed my point which was that 14 games isn't enough to judge how a player will look for the rest of the season.

Barea looked like garbage for 14 games at the start of the season and then was a bright spot by the playoffs.

Yep, probably. I agree with you. Although, i guess then it's actually not a good sign that Collison started out this season great.

[redzwestisbest]

This is unfortunately why Pacers gave up on Collison. In today's NBA you have to be at least a decent shooter or at least be able to draw fouls, get layups, etc. His peak is what we see. Not a great shooter, gambles alot on defense, good ball handler, and sometimes disappears. He tries to do too much. He isn't that kind of player, he needs to just be a ball handler/distributor and again in today's nba, that is bench worthy. I still think he could work, but he will need to find a way to shoot a little better and not be so dumb on defense.

The Mavs had to try him out, but realistically, Delonte West and Ian would have fit better with the Mavs for the whole season. They had to trade Ian because they didn't want to pay him.

I truly believe the Mavs could have been 9-6 or better if they just simply kept Delonte West over anyone else on the roster as the first guard off the bench playing 25 mpg instead of having DoJo/Roddy/etc. They really could use someone they could rely on when healthy.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by redzwestisbest

This is unfortunately why Pacers gave up on Collison. In today's NBA you have to be at least a decent shooter or at least be able to draw fouls, get layups, etc. His peak is what we see. Not a great shooter, gambles alot on defense, good ball handler, and sometimes disappears. He tries to do too much. He isn't that kind of player, he needs to just be a ball handler/distributor and again in today's nba, that is bench worthy. I still think he could work, but he will need to find a way to shoot a little better and not be so dumb on defense.

The Mavs had to try him out, but realistically, Delonte West and Ian would have fit better with the Mavs for the whole season. They had to trade Ian because they didn't want to pay him.

I truly believe the Mavs could have been 9-6 or better if they just simply kept Delonte West over anyone else on the roster as the first guard off the bench playing 25 mpg instead of having DoJo/Roddy/etc. They really could use someone they could rely on when healthy.

I think I mostly agree with you. Collison wouldn't be a terrible bench player because he certainly has a strong skillset, but I think JJB is the closest analogy I can draw. He has a hard time running an offense and his defense is extremely suspect. He gambles way too often, doesn't move his feet well and when he does make contact, it's way too late. JJB learned to make up for his physical deficiencies by learning to draw fouls (flop), but he was always a liability because of physical limitations.

I disagree that West would have been much better. West has a lot of the same issues even when his head is on right-- which it wasn't this year. West's defense is WAY better, but West also can't make smart passes, can't run an offense and other than individual offense. When he was on the floor without a PG accompanying him, he killed our offensive efficiency by like 15%. Everything ground to a halt and it became a 1-on-5 every time.

If we can alleviate the burden on Collison, he will be better. He's a skilled slasher when motivated (although I'd hesitate to say he has strong ball handling skills because of all the unforced TOs from dribbling into a defender or even dribbling it off his own foot), He has shown some skill in shooting from mid and long range early in this season and in his overall career. But no matter what he's going to be a liability defensively and he'll be an offensive liability simply because he has yet to show me a single team play that he can run. He is awful on the PnR, bad on the PnS, and doesn't have good instincts on the drop off or kick out. He gets himself into a lot of problems. As a floor general, he's about as developed as Roddy.

If we are stuck with him, which I think we are, then he needs to learn how to pass it to guys in the mid and low post (Kaman and Dirk) and to be able to run at least 2-3 rudimentary plays that aren't isos.