03-20-2016, 09:00 PM
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#161
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,209
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Haven't some of you ever heard of forcing the coach to play a player? That is exactly what Salah did today. If you want minutes, then you have to make your presence on the court so known that the coach has to play you. Rick isn't ditching Salah...he is challenging him. And he can't just promise him minutes because then it sends a bad message to Anderson.
Am I the only one who gets this?
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"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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03-20-2016, 09:32 PM
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#162
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: BRAZIL
Posts: 3,760
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
Haven't some of you ever heard of forcing the coach to play a player? That is exactly what Salah did today. If you want minutes, then you have to make your presence on the court so known that the coach has to play you. Rick isn't ditching Salah...he is challenging him. And he can't just promise him minutes because then it sends a bad message to Anderson.
Am I the only one who gets this?
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I don't have a problem with the "no guarantees" part of the comment, just with what he said about his performance tonight.
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Quote:
Dirk Nowitzki is a monster of epic and unattainable proportion. Seriously, he must be stopped.
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03-20-2016, 09:59 PM
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#163
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 42,966
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Rick wants to be fired.
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03-20-2016, 10:54 PM
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#164
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
Haven't some of you ever heard of forcing the coach to play a player? That is exactly what Salah did today. If you want minutes, then you have to make your presence on the court so known that the coach has to play you. Rick isn't ditching Salah...he is challenging him. And he can't just promise him minutes because then it sends a bad message to Anderson.
Am I the only one who gets this?
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That's exactly what I think he is doing. Like I said he has guys that he'll play no matter what and the rest he picks through to see if they can produce. That's why he always says they have to be ready.
The problem I have with that strategy is the demoralizing effect it can have on a young player if the leash is too short. I think Rick's leash is a little too short because guys have to work through their mistakes.
A win-now strategy isn't exactly a healthy way to develop young players imo.
Last edited by rimrocker; 03-20-2016 at 10:55 PM.
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03-20-2016, 11:09 PM
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#165
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
Haven't some of you ever heard of forcing the coach to play a player? That is exactly what Salah did today. If you want minutes, then you have to make your presence on the court so known that the coach has to play you. Rick isn't ditching Salah...he is challenging him. And he can't just promise him minutes because then it sends a bad message to Anderson.
Am I the only one who gets this?
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Probably...
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
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03-20-2016, 11:21 PM
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#166
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rimrocker
That's exactly what I think he is doing. Like I said he has guys that he'll play no matter what and the rest he picks through to see if they can produce. That's why he always says they have to be ready.
The problem I have with that strategy is the demoralizing effect it can have on a young player if the leash is too short. I think Rick's leash is a little too short because guys have to work through their mistakes.
A win-now strategy isn't exactly a healthy way to develop young players imo.
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If Anderson had played well today, then I would 100% agree with you. However, Rick gave Anderson and Mejri big chances today and only one took advantage of it. What happens if the next game Mejri plays like crap and Anderson plays great? What does a coach decipher from that?
The reason the FO is in win-now mode is because Dirk is still playing like a god. I got it more than ever today watching his greatness in person. I didn't even care if the team lost. The fans are there for Dirk. The end.
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"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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03-21-2016, 12:06 AM
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#167
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
If Anderson had played well today, then I would 100% agree with you. However, Rick gave Anderson and Mejri big chances today and only one took advantage of it. What happens if the next game Mejri plays like crap and Anderson plays great? What does a coach decipher from that?
The reason the FO is in win-now mode is because Dirk is still playing like a god. I got it more than ever today watching his greatness in person. I didn't even care if the team lost. The fans are there for Dirk. The end.
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You actually sort of make my point with Anderson. Anderson made one mistake and we never saw him again. Anderson may not get a chance for a while or the rest of the season with Rick.
I understand Rick is in it to win and that is the general mindset of the organization as a whole and probably should be with Dirk. I don't disagree with that strategy but my point is that asking guys to be ready at any time works better for vets than inexperienced players trying to grow. Too much of that can make young players virtually worthless going forward because they'll be afraid to do anything and their confidence will be shot.
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03-21-2016, 12:27 AM
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#168
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Guru
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,016
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The problem with the "make guys earn it" argument for Rick is he's not consistent. Until today Matthews hadn't earned a minute in a month. Jj has been pretty consistently terrible other than about a 5 minute stretch last game. Those guys get there minutes no matter what and Anderson brings a more necessary skill set than jj does at this point.
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03-21-2016, 01:06 AM
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#169
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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@espn_macmahon: Deron Williams clutch stats this season: 127 points, 50.0 FG%, 51.6 3%, 93.5 FT%, 26 assists, 6 TOs, plus-51 in 170 minutes.
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
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03-21-2016, 06:00 AM
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#170
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Five-ofan
The problem with the "make guys earn it" argument for Rick is he's not consistent. Until today Matthews hadn't earned a minute in a month. Jj has been pretty consistently terrible other than about a 5 minute stretch last game. Those guys get there minutes no matter what and Anderson brings a more necessary skill set than jj does at this point.
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Def agree with this as I've been quite hard on Wes. Has to be because of their contracts at least with him. I suppose the issue is if you lose Matthews mentally, then you're really up sh** creek with that contract (as if we aren't already). He doesn't seem to be a guy who will respond well to not playing. If you lose Anderson, then you can easily get rid of his rookie contract. JJb has always been an anomaly. Rick just likes him and will play him regardless.
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03-21-2016, 07:20 AM
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#171
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Five-ofan
The problem with the "make guys earn it" argument for Rick is he's not consistent. Until today Matthews hadn't earned a minute in a month. Jj has been pretty consistently terrible other than about a 5 minute stretch last game. Those guys get there minutes no matter what and Anderson brings a more necessary skill set than jj does at this point.
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Agree. I remember McGee contributing very solid minutes earlier in the season and not getting rewarded for it. He's big, athletic and healthier now than he's been in years. The Mavs NEED the length and shot blocking/altering ability that he and Mejri bring, especially in light of Dirk's defensive liability. Dirk is much better defensively with a rim protector behind him. There is less chance of him getting caught in no man's land if he's got the confidence that there's a legitimate obstacle to the basket behind him.
I'm very happy that Carlisle was able to coach the Mavs to a championship in 2011, but I'm at the point to where if he doesn't significantly change his rotations and minutes, especially at C, then I'd be all on board with inviting him to look for a job elsewhere.
Last edited by turin; 03-21-2016 at 07:22 AM.
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03-21-2016, 08:14 AM
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#172
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Banned
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 900
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turin
Agree. I remember McGee contributing very solid minutes earlier in the season and not getting rewarded for it. He's big, athletic and healthier now than he's been in years. The Mavs NEED the length and shot blocking/altering ability that he and Mejri bring, especially in light of Dirk's defensive liability. Dirk is much better defensively with a rim protector behind him. There is less chance of him getting caught in no man's land if he's got the confidence that there's a legitimate obstacle to the basket behind him.
I'm very happy that Carlisle was able to coach the Mavs to a championship in 2011, but I'm at the point to where if he doesn't significantly change his rotations and minutes, especially at C, then I'd be all on board with inviting him to look for a job elsewhere.
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Did you see RC's quote about high flying shot blocking not being in the Mavs DNA. Blazers guards were deterred from going to the basket with Mejri lurking. It also allowed the backcourt to guard tighter with the rim protector behind them. Shot blockers create uncertainty for the other team's offense. For some reason RC does not value these guys.
Last edited by DGM; 03-21-2016 at 08:19 AM.
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03-21-2016, 09:17 AM
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#173
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Guru
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Las Vegas
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I understand not guaranteeing minutes but it's almost as RC felt like Salah showed him up today so he had to be a dick in his presser.
And you don't curse a rookie anderson and not put him back in the rest of the game for ONE mistake. His confidence will be shot and he will play on eggshells if he ever plays another minute this season which will produce more mistakes.
I'm on board with sending Carlisle on his merry little way once dirk retires. That feels like a given.
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03-21-2016, 09:25 AM
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#174
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melonhead
I understand not guaranteeing minutes but it's almost as RC felt like Salah showed him up today so he had to be a dick in his presser.
And you don't curse a rookie anderson and not put him back in the rest of the game for ONE mistake. His confidence will be shot and he will play on eggshells if he ever plays another minute this season which will produce more mistakes.
I'm on board with sending Carlisle on his merry little way once dirk retires. That feels like a given.
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Did you actually watch the game? Anderson wasn't benched because of one mistake. He was benched because he provided absolutely nothing on the floor in those 6 minutes and blew a relatively easy layup. He has been decent in other games, and I'm all about him getting some burn. This game wasn't one of them. He wasn't playing even D league level in this one.
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"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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03-21-2016, 09:42 AM
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#175
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melonhead
I'm on board with sending Carlisle on his merry little way once dirk retires.
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Have fun being the Sixers for the next couple decades...
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
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03-21-2016, 09:50 AM
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#176
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: BRAZIL
Posts: 3,760
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To Rick's defense he did also say this:
"We needed some size out there. I just thought Mejri has had some good stretches for us, maybe he can give us some rim protection, some rebounding, and he came in and made a big difference."
And Mejri:
"I think I get my confidence a long time ago, when I blocked Kevin Durant and (Russell) Westbrook in one night," he said. "I don't need my confidence. I need the coach's confidence."
__________________
Quote:
Dirk Nowitzki is a monster of epic and unattainable proportion. Seriously, he must be stopped.
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03-21-2016, 10:01 AM
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#177
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: uranus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skywalker
To Rick's defense he did also say this:
"We needed some size out there. I just thought Mejri has had some good stretches for us, maybe he can give us some rim protection, some rebounding, and he came in and made a big difference."
And Mejri:
"I think I get my confidence a long time ago, when I blocked Kevin Durant and (Russell) Westbrook in one night," he said. "I don't need my confidence. I need the coach's confidence."
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Great quote by Mejri
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you just proofed how stupid you are - CRAZYBOY
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03-21-2016, 10:11 AM
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#178
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,209
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Wow, I found this poll on a Blazers forum...
Quote:
Who do you currently like more?
This poll will close on Mar 27, 2016 at 2:31 AM.
LaMarcus Aldridge
16 vote(s) 55.2%
Ray Felton
13 vote(s) 44.8%
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__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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03-21-2016, 10:36 AM
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#179
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: BRAZIL
Posts: 3,760
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lol
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Quote:
Dirk Nowitzki is a monster of epic and unattainable proportion. Seriously, he must be stopped.
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03-21-2016, 12:57 PM
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#180
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melonhead
I understand not guaranteeing minutes but it's almost as RC felt like Salah showed him up today so he had to be a dick in his presser.
And you don't curse a rookie anderson and not put him back in the rest of the game for ONE mistake. His confidence will be shot and he will play on eggshells if he ever plays another minute this season which will produce more mistakes.
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Agree 100%
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03-21-2016, 01:01 PM
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#181
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Guru
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 11,743
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
If Anderson had played well today, then I would 100% agree with you. However, Rick gave Anderson and Mejri big chances today and only one took advantage of it. What happens if the next game Mejri plays like crap and Anderson plays great? What does a coach decipher from that?
The reason the FO is in win-now mode is because Dirk is still playing like a god. I got it more than ever today watching his greatness in person. I didn't even care if the team lost. The fans are there for Dirk. The end.
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What do we decipher from trotting out CV corpse? Yeah he's hung around the league awhile but we watch him look pathetic all season. There's plenty of games a lot of the roster plays like crap. It's not just the young guys
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03-21-2016, 01:07 PM
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#182
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Guru
Join Date: May 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
Did you actually watch the game? Anderson wasn't benched because of one mistake. He was benched because he provided absolutely nothing on the floor in those 6 minutes and blew a relatively easy layup. He has been decent in other games, and I'm all about him getting some burn. This game wasn't one of them. He wasn't playing even D league level in this one.
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Actually had the opportunity to watch the full game live. And since I'm off this week, I'm currently rewatching greatness by Dirk
Again we all know he's stubborn about giving young guys chances but screaming at him wtf are you doing as a rookie...doesn't help his confidence. In other sports sure.
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03-21-2016, 02:03 PM
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#183
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melonhead
Actually had the opportunity to watch the full game live. And since I'm off this week, I'm currently rewatching greatness by Dirk
Again we all know he's stubborn about giving young guys chances but screaming at him wtf are you doing as a rookie...doesn't help his confidence. In other sports sure.
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This was a must-win game though, and you can't let the rookie just learn from his mistakes when it was so close. If Matthews had sucked again, then I'd be a little more irritated.
And it isn't like Anderson didn't get a chance. Rick just called him out for sucking when the team needed him.
Oh and Salah, the rookie, got his shot and made the most of it. If he had sucked, then the team loses big time. So in many ways, Rick getting mad at Anderson is a sign of respect because the team needs him not to suck when called upon.
I'd even go as far as to say that this was Rick's best coaching of the season.
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"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
Last edited by DevinHarriswillstart; 03-21-2016 at 02:05 PM.
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03-21-2016, 02:27 PM
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#184
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Guru
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 11,743
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
This was a must-win game though, and you can't let the rookie just learn from his mistakes when it was so close. If Matthews had sucked again, then I'd be a little more irritated.
And it isn't like Anderson didn't get a chance. Rick just called him out for sucking when the team needed him.
Oh and Salah, the rookie, got his shot and made the most of it. If he had sucked, then the team loses big time. So in many ways, Rick getting mad at Anderson is a sign of respect because the team needs him not to suck when called upon.
I'd even go as far as to say that this was Rick's best coaching of the season.
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If parsons wasn't injured, Salah doesn't get minutes. He's 29 and should have been playing most of the season.
Someone above already mentioned you can't do the not suck when called upon as a rookie in the nba. There will be mistakes.
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03-21-2016, 02:29 PM
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#185
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
I'd even go as far as to say that this was Rick's best coaching of the season.
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What aspect of coaching are you are referring to, managing the game or managing young players?
Depends on whether he gives Anderson another good look next game or if he buries him deep on the bench like he has done others in the past. I thought he should have given Anderson another opportunity after the scolding.
If he gives Anderson another good look NEXT game I'd probably agree with your statement as a whole. If he doesn't then Rick has set us back again with ignoring an opportunity to develop another young player.
Last edited by rimrocker; 03-21-2016 at 02:30 PM.
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03-21-2016, 03:10 PM
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#186
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melonhead
Someone above already mentioned you can't do the not suck when called upon as a rookie in the nba. There will be mistakes.
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We're 70 games into the season, only 1 game ahead of 9th seed, and you're crying about developing youth? After we won???
These guys can go play in Philadelphia or Minnesota and learn from their mistakes... That shit doesn't fly here, not now -- we're trying to stack wins to make the playoffs, which is the least this pathetic squad owes Dirk... And if the fans can't get behind that, then they can go root 'Sixers and 'Wolves and enjoy watching young guys play through mistakes.
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
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03-21-2016, 03:45 PM
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#187
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rimrocker
What aspect of coaching are you are referring to, managing the game or managing young players?
Depends on whether he gives Anderson another good look next game or if he buries him deep on the bench like he has done others in the past. I thought he should have given Anderson another opportunity after the scolding.
If he gives Anderson another good look NEXT game I'd probably agree with your statement as a whole. If he doesn't then Rick has set us back again with ignoring an opportunity to develop another young player.
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How is Rick setting us back by not playing a player that contributed nothing in a must-win game? It's too late to develop Anderson now. He'll have to wait until the summer league to improve his game. I'm not happy with his complete lack of minutes with the season as a whole...especially early on. However, is he the guy who is going to give you 30 points or even 15 points in a game? You wanna know what his stat line was against Portland? 0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0
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03-21-2016, 04:09 PM
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#188
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
However, is he the guy who is going to give you 30 points or even 15 points in a game?
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Certainly not while sitting on the bench.
Last edited by rimrocker; 03-21-2016 at 04:11 PM.
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03-21-2016, 04:39 PM
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#189
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog
These guys can go play in Philadelphia or Minnesota and learn from their mistakes...
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Or Boston along with our draft pick for a head case vet.
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03-21-2016, 04:55 PM
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#190
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Guru
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 11,743
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog
We're 70 games into the season, only 1 game ahead of 9th seed, and you're crying about developing youth? After we won???
These guys can go play in Philadelphia or Minnesota and learn from their mistakes... That shit doesn't fly here, not now -- we're trying to stack wins to make the playoffs, which is the least this pathetic squad owes Dirk... And if the fans can't get behind that, then they can go root 'Sixers and 'Wolves and enjoy watching young guys play through mistakes.
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This is far from crying about developing youth but more of how RC doesn't know how to treat young players. In general my comment you quoted is saying you can't put a rookie out there and not expect mistakes. I'm fine with him being pulled for a mistake as long as it's not burying him and his confidence on the bench for the next month. He should have another opportunity at some point next game.
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03-21-2016, 05:28 PM
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#191
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melonhead
This is far from crying about developing youth but more of how RC doesn't know how to treat young players. In general my comment you quoted is saying you can't put a rookie out there and not expect mistakes. I'm fine with him being pulled for a mistake as long as it's not burying him and his confidence on the bench for the next month. He should have another opportunity at some point next game.
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I've never seen a coddled player amount to jack shit in this league... If you can't take a coach's criticism, no matter how harsh, then the NBA doesn't have any use for your bitch-ass... This is pro sports, not a millennial "safe space" -- no trigger warnings for the weak up in here, son.
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
Last edited by Underdog; 03-21-2016 at 05:32 PM.
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03-21-2016, 06:30 PM
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#192
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGM
Did you see RC's quote about high flying shot blocking not being in the Mavs DNA. Blazers guards were deterred from going to the basket with Mejri lurking. It also allowed the backcourt to guard tighter with the rim protector behind them. Shot blockers create uncertainty for the other team's offense. For some reason RC does not value these guys.
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Yeah, I remember that. It was one of those WTF? moments for me regarding Rick.
Last edited by turin; 03-21-2016 at 06:31 PM.
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03-21-2016, 07:37 PM
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#193
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Banned
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 900
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turin
Yeah, I remember that. It was one of those WTF? moments for me regarding Rick.
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Deploying the shot blocker against GSW might allow the Mavs guards to play tighter defense against the splashes.
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03-21-2016, 07:49 PM
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#194
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,694
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Deron Williams has two 30+ point performances this season both against Portland. Portland's previous eight losses- allowed 122.6 points per game. The Kings(dead last) allow 109.6 ppg. I'll take any win I can get, especially one with Dirk going for 40.
Deron after the game-
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"You know, I felt like with [Parsons] out, I had to be a little bit more aggressive offensively," You know, not only getting myself involved, but getting others involved."
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If this is true it's pretty frustrating. We have been losing a lot of games and it took an injury for him to step it up? He needs to be that aggressive all the time. He honestly looks like he is just cruising through the first 36-43mins of the game(minus yesterday) then decides to turn it on late. Then last night, because of an injury, he decided to be aggressive?
As for Salah and Simba, they both need minutes. If they don't have it on a given night then RC can feel free to ride the corpse of CV3, play as many pg's as he wants, and drive Wes into the ground while he continues to ask for even more minutes. Salah especially has been good-great just about every single appearance yet for whatever reason can't get on the floor.
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03-21-2016, 09:01 PM
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#195
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog
I've never seen a coddled player amount to jack shit in this league... If you can't take a coach's criticism, no matter how harsh, then the NBA doesn't have any use for your bitch-ass... This is pro sports, not a millennial "safe space" -- no trigger warnings for the weak up in here, son.
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Now simmer down UD....nobody is saying anything about coddling.
If you're going to put a rookie on the court in a critical game and then chew him out for one mistake you have to give him a chance to earn your trust back. That's coaching psychology 101.
Chew him out? Yes, that's coaching. But making him a permanent resident in your doghouse wouldn't be a wise move for our future imo unless you do not value that player.
Some of those old battered legs might need some rest down the stretch and we may need Anderson again. He definitely has some skills we could use.
Last edited by rimrocker; 03-21-2016 at 09:34 PM.
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03-21-2016, 09:23 PM
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#196
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turin
Yeah, I remember that. It was one of those WTF? moments for me regarding Rick.
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Especially when we have two shot blocking specialists on the team.
Not sure why Rick doesn't understand the simple concept that preventing a basket yields the same as making a basket.
Addition by subtraction or something goofy like that
Last edited by rimrocker; 03-21-2016 at 09:35 PM.
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