05-19-2018, 09:29 PM
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#1721
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
I would trade the entire team minus DSJ and any cap space for Memphis's pick.
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Same... DSJ / MPJ or Bagley / JJJ or Bamba would be a helluva core to build a team around for the next decade.
(honestly, I just want "Team Junior" with DSJ/MPJ/JJJ so I don't have to type as much)
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
Last edited by Underdog; 05-19-2018 at 09:45 PM.
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05-20-2018, 10:56 AM
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#1722
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 42,997
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Lotta buzz that Philly May want to trade the #10
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05-20-2018, 12:29 PM
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#1723
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Guru
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Brasil
Posts: 15,401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
What are we going to do with that cap space again? That sounds like a plan powder move when it's much wiser to have asset in hand.
We need a young core to build around, period. Everything else comes second.
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Plan Powder in 2018 and 2019 has thanks to the insane 2016 summer much better odds to work...
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05-20-2018, 07:42 PM
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#1724
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,233
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From BSPN, but these boards have been dead today...
https://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...On-Luka-Doncic
Needless to say it wouldn't surprise me one bit to see Doncic fall. Hope we don't take him. I've changed my mind that I'd even take MPJ over him.
__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
Last edited by DevinHarriswillstart; 05-20-2018 at 07:44 PM.
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05-20-2018, 08:03 PM
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#1725
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Guru
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Brasil
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He wont slide past the Grizzlies because Gasol is not going to let this happen. And i wouldnt be surprised if Doncic makes the Hawks and Kings look stupid in the long run.
And IF he is available at #5 the Mavs would take him for sure.
Last edited by sefant77; 05-20-2018 at 08:04 PM.
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05-20-2018, 09:42 PM
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#1726
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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Wait, how do I feel about Doncic?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog
Ayton
Porter
Jackson
Bamba
Bagley
Doncic
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Oh, that's right -- I never bought into the narrative, I watched the tape.
He'd be great in Orlando.
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
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05-20-2018, 10:09 PM
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#1727
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Guru
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Brasil
Posts: 15,401
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Which tape you watched of Porter to put him at #2? Some HS stuff?
HS > Euroleague?
I think its just weird to put Porter at #2 and Doncic at #6 with such arguments
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05-20-2018, 10:12 PM
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#1728
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sefant77
Which tape you watched of Porter to put him at #2? Some HS stuff?
HS > Euroleague?
I think its just weird to put Porter at #2 and Doncic at #6 with such arguments
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Because Porter moves better, he's smoother, faster, better at getting into position on defense, his shot is more consistent -- mechanics don't change with competition.
Plus, Euroleague is fucking garbage -- guys just stand there and watch Doncic score. I don't know how the rules work over there, but NOBODY plays defense.
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
Last edited by Underdog; 05-20-2018 at 10:19 PM.
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05-20-2018, 10:16 PM
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#1729
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Guru
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Brasil
Posts: 15,401
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Well...against shitty competition everyone looks better
I really dont want to be Donnie this draft...
Porter with an injury and just HS tape.
Doncic as Euro
Bamba/JJJ as super taw talents
Brrrrr...
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05-20-2018, 10:21 PM
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#1730
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sefant77
Well...against shitty competition everyone looks better
I really dont want to be Donnie this draft...
Porter with an injury and just HS tape.
Doncic as Euro
Bamba/JJJ as super taw talents
Brrrrr...
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Michael Porter Jr. didn't just play in high school, he played the McDonalds All-American camp, Crossroads Elite camp, USA camp, etc -- he's played against future NBA talent for years now... He played against Dennis Smith Jr, even... I have a much better idea of what he'll be in the NBA than Doncic.
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
Last edited by Underdog; 05-20-2018 at 10:23 PM.
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05-20-2018, 10:38 PM
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#1731
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,233
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That's why I'm not freaking about about picking 5th.
Even Donnie mentioned that it's Ayton first and the rest is in the eye of the beholder.
__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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05-20-2018, 10:42 PM
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#1732
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,694
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Doncic will be fine on defense. His iq is seriously special. He's not falling to 5.
He's 19 and he won the MVP award for the final four. He's the youngest ever to do it. This talk of teams saying he struggled is coming after his camp is trying to get leverage to not get picked by 2 of the shittiest organizations in basketball with almost no marketing ability.
Edit-
So correct me if I'm wrong but he won euroleague, and mvp, and now finals mvp... at 19? Ok.
Last edited by Bryan_Wilson; 05-20-2018 at 10:45 PM.
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05-20-2018, 11:03 PM
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#1733
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Guru
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Brasil
Posts: 15,401
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And the Euros at age 18 together with Dragic beating spain with the Gasols etc
Last edited by sefant77; 05-20-2018 at 11:03 PM.
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05-21-2018, 12:37 AM
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#1734
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 42,997
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My top 6
1) Mikal Bridges - guaranteed starter with 3/D. Has shown much more versatile offense like driving and moving without the ball. May be a Marion/Leonard type. Leadership, drive, IQ, defense, offense.
2) Bamba - numbers remarkably close to Mutombo. I still don’t think his offense will be much more than lobs, simple post moves and the very occasional midrange jumper but he’s got DPOY written all over him
3) Bagley- needs to work on defense and footwork but dude reminds me of Sheed. Extremely skilled scorer. Decent without the ball and excellent with.
4) Jackson - high ceiling, low floor. Dude has shown glimpses of amazing but in very low PT. Equal chances of being brilliant and being a sixth man.
4) Ayton - no idea why, but I just feel like he will be injured/bust. His body is ready. He just doesn’t have the drive or maturity. I just get an Eddy Curry vibe from him.
5) Doncic - solid starter, but I don’t see the star potential. High floor, low ceiling guy. Don’t see how he fits with Smith.
6) Porter - has the potential to be Paul George or a bigger Gordon Hayward. I just have deep concerns about his health and his game. Could very well be worth the risk if other guys are off the table.
Last edited by EricaLubarsky; 05-21-2018 at 12:38 AM.
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05-21-2018, 11:22 AM
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#1735
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,511
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog
but NOBODY plays defense.
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That seems to be a weird perception. EU basketball is much more physical than the sissy NBA of today.
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05-21-2018, 12:15 PM
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#1736
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,482
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The last time the Mavs passed on the elite ball handler with size that fell into thier laps, he became Giannis.
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05-21-2018, 12:36 PM
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#1737
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshJive
The last time the Mavs passed on the elite ball handler with size that fell into thier laps, he became Giannis.
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Giannis was an absolute freak athlete with freak size. I dunno how ANYONE could watch Doncic and think he has the athleticism needed to make it in today's NBA.
__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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05-21-2018, 01:40 PM
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#1738
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 42,997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshJive
The last time the Mavs passed on the elite ball handler with size that fell into thier laps, he became Giannis.
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By that logic, you shouldn't pass on 7 foot Europeans.
And that got the Knicks Bargnani
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05-21-2018, 01:45 PM
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#1739
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: uranus
Posts: 13,643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
Giannis was an absolute freak athlete with freak size. I dunno how ANYONE could watch Doncic and think he has the athleticism needed to make it in today's NBA.
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Ginobiliiii, Wes Mathews, Joe Ingles and imsure many others have made it fine.
__________________
you just proofed how stupid you are - CRAZYBOY
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05-21-2018, 01:46 PM
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#1740
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: uranus
Posts: 13,643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky
By that logic, you shouldn't pass on 7 foot Europeans.
And that got the Knicks Bargnani
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...and KP
__________________
you just proofed how stupid you are - CRAZYBOY
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05-21-2018, 02:41 PM
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#1741
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMC0007
Ginobiliiii, Wes Mathews, Joe Ingles and imsure many others have made it fine.
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And all of those guys superstars right? And Manu wasn't a great athlete, but he from my recollection moved pretty fluidly especially without the ball.
Once again, Doncic has to be a superstar to justify the pick. He can't just be fricken' Wes Matthew or Joe Ingles.
__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
Last edited by DevinHarriswillstart; 05-21-2018 at 02:42 PM.
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05-21-2018, 03:14 PM
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#1742
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 42,997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
And all of those guys superstars right? And Manu wasn't a great athlete, but he from my recollection moved pretty fluidly especially without the ball.
Once again, Doncic has to be a superstar to justify the pick. He can't just be fricken' Wes Matthew or Joe Ingles.
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And that's why I dont put him in my top 5.
Dude absolutely knows how to play basketball. He is ready to come in and I fully expect him to average 15-4-4 next season if given the minutes. He absolutely will be a decent starter.
I just think his ceiling is fairly low. He's young, sure. I'm not sure where he goes to really elevate his game.
Then again, you could have said that about Dirk and he added absolutely lethal jumpshooting. And driving. And post-play. And decent defense.
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05-21-2018, 03:20 PM
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#1743
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Golden Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
And all of those guys superstars right? And Manu wasn't a great athlete, but he from my recollection moved pretty fluidly especially without the ball.
Once again, Doncic has to be a superstar to justify the pick. He can't just be fricken' Wes Matthew or Joe Ingles.
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I would argue that being High-IQ/Low-Athletic is lot more likely to make it in the NBA that Low-IQ/High-Athletic. There are athletic guys all over the place, just go look at the local park. Watching Harden and CP3 last night, they are not overly athletic themselves. They use their bodies very well in initiating a ton of contact in order to create space. GS is also a perfect example in that they block out on rebounds all of the time preventing taller/more athletic players from getting the rebound.
I'm not saying that Doncic is going to be a super-star, but I am saying that he declaring that he won't be simply because of athleticism is wrong. However, I really hope the Mavs don't have to make that choice because I don't want to go through another franchise player career with a Euro player that gets zero respect from the league.
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05-21-2018, 03:34 PM
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#1744
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MavzMan
I would argue that being High-IQ/Low-Athletic is lot more likely to make it in the NBA that Low-IQ/High-Athletic. There are athletic guys all over the place, just go look at the local park. Watching Harden and CP3 last night, they are not overly athletic themselves. They use their bodies very well in initiating a ton of contact in order to create space. GS is also a perfect example in that they block out on rebounds all of the time preventing taller/more athletic players from getting the rebound.
I'm not saying that Doncic is going to be a super-star, but I am saying that he declaring that he won't be simply because of athleticism is wrong. However, I really hope the Mavs don't have to make that choice because I don't want to go through another franchise player career with a Euro player that gets zero respect from the league.
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My thing is people downplaying the high risk of picking him like it's a sure thing. To me, he is the highest risk of the top 6 talent.
I think he'll be a good player, no doubt, but he isn't what the Mavs need if the FO doesn't think for sure he'll be superstar.
__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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05-21-2018, 03:36 PM
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#1745
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
Giannis was an absolute freak athlete with freak size. I dunno how ANYONE could watch Doncic and think he has the athleticism needed to make it in today's NBA.
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Like pretty much every NBA scout?
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05-21-2018, 03:37 PM
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#1746
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky
By that logic, you shouldn't pass on 7 foot Europeans.
And that got the Knicks Bargnani
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The Knicks? You sure about that?
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05-21-2018, 03:40 PM
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#1747
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Golden Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
My thing is people downplaying the high risk of picking him like it's a sure thing. To me, he is the highest risk of the top 6 talent.
I think he'll be a good player, no doubt, but he isn't what the Mavs need if the FO doesn't think for sure he'll be superstar.
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So for argument's sake, let's say it goes like this:
PHO - Ayton
SAC - JJJ
ATL - Bagley
MEM - Bamba
and MPJ shows up with a bad back.
Who's your pick?
I think best case scenario is that we have a good choice between 2 players, but it's also likely that whoever we pick is simply who's left of the top players.
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05-21-2018, 04:01 PM
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#1748
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MavzMan
So for argument's sake, let's say it goes like this:
PHO - Ayton
SAC - JJJ
ATL - Bagley
MEM - Bamba
and MPJ shows up with a bad back.
Who's your pick?
I think best case scenario is that we have a good choice between 2 players, but it's also likely that whoever we pick is simply who's left of the top players.
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I think that's worst case scenario for the 5th pick, and one I'm afraid will happen.
But I go MPJ all day long because he is 6'11, athletic, and has a killer jump shot when not injured. He is the perfect PF in today's NBA....IF cleared. Big if.
__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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05-21-2018, 05:11 PM
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#1749
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Guru
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 11,790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
And all of those guys superstars right? And Manu wasn't a great athlete, but he from my recollection moved pretty fluidly especially without the ball.
Once again, Doncic has to be a superstar to justify the pick. He can't just be fricken' Wes Matthew or Joe Ingles.
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And how many years has Ginobli been a bench player? I just dont see what people see in Doncic when it comes to a big star.
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05-21-2018, 05:40 PM
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#1750
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Guru
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Brasil
Posts: 15,401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog
Because Porter moves better, he's smoother, faster, better at getting into position on defense, his shot is more consistent -- mechanics don't change with competition.
Plus, Euroleague is fucking garbage -- guys just stand there and watch Doncic score. I don't know how the rules work over there, but NOBODY plays defense.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog
Michael Porter Jr. didn't just play in high school, he played the McDonalds All-American camp, Crossroads Elite camp, USA camp, etc -- he's played against future NBA talent for years now... He played against Dennis Smith Jr, even... I have a much better idea of what he'll be in the NBA than Doncic.
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Sorry, you lost me completly here...writing that Euroleague is garbage etc but Porter is great because he looked good in freaking camp games.
And if you not even really know the euro rules means you dont really watch euro games
Just be honest and say you are absolute biased in general against euro ball...
Last edited by sefant77; 05-21-2018 at 05:46 PM.
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05-21-2018, 05:43 PM
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#1751
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Guru
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Brasil
Posts: 15,401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
And all of those guys superstars right? And Manu wasn't a great athlete, but he from my recollection moved pretty fluidly especially without the ball.
Once again, Doncic has to be a superstar to justify the pick. He can't just be fricken' Wes Matthew or Joe Ingles.
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Why this logic counts for Doncic but not for Porter?
And what if Porter ends up just as a lame taller version of Joe Johnson? wasted pick too, huh? Because Porter has to be a superstar to justify the pick
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05-21-2018, 05:45 PM
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#1752
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Guru
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Brasil
Posts: 15,401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melonhead
And how many years has Ginobli been a bench player? I just dont see what people see in Doncic when it comes to a big star.
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lol....Gino was a bench player because of the Spurs system and putting system and success over everything else.
Dude was starter material for the entire league...
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05-21-2018, 05:48 PM
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#1753
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: uranus
Posts: 13,643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
And all of those guys superstars right? And Manu wasn't a great athlete, but he from my recollection moved pretty fluidly especially without the ball.
Once again, Doncic has to be a superstar to justify the pick. He can't just be fricken' Wes Matthew or Joe Ingles.
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You said make it in the nba though. Doncic looks every bit as smooth if not more smooth than Ginobili. He wont be available when we pick anyway, but there is no way we wouldn't take him if he was there at 5.
__________________
you just proofed how stupid you are - CRAZYBOY
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05-21-2018, 05:56 PM
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#1754
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: uranus
Posts: 13,643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sefant77
lol....Gino was a bench player because of the Spurs system and putting system and success over everything else.
Dude was starter material for the entire league...
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There was a decent amount of time where he ended games playing the point and iso at the top of the top and it was a nightmare for anyone and any team. IQ, Handles and timing > raw athleticism.
__________________
you just proofed how stupid you are - CRAZYBOY
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05-21-2018, 05:58 PM
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#1755
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: uranus
Posts: 13,643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sefant77
Why this logic counts for Doncic but not for Porter?
And what if Porter ends up just as a lame taller version of Joe Johnson? wasted pick too, huh? Because Porter has to be a superstar to justify the pick
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No because you have a built in excuse that he didnt end up a superstar because of his back .
__________________
you just proofed how stupid you are - CRAZYBOY
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05-21-2018, 06:13 PM
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#1756
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sefant77
Why this logic counts for Doncic but not for Porter?
And what if Porter ends up just as a lame taller version of Joe Johnson? wasted pick too, huh? Because Porter has to be a superstar to justify the pick
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Oh, I'm in total agreement, especially with MPJ's back. I just think his size and athleticism are more worth banking on.
__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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05-21-2018, 06:28 PM
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#1757
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Guru
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Brasil
Posts: 15,401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
Oh, I'm in total agreement, especially with MPJ's back. I just think his size and athleticism are more worth banking on.
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Hmmm...
You cant teach size and you barely can teach athleticism...but you also cant teach bball iq
Last edited by sefant77; 05-21-2018 at 06:30 PM.
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05-21-2018, 06:35 PM
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#1758
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sefant77
Hmmm...
You cant teach size and you barely can teach athleticism...but you also cant teach bball iq
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Agreed. McGee is probably the dumbest player ever to play basketball with Noel not far behind.
I haven't heard much about JJJ's IQ.
__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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05-21-2018, 06:39 PM
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#1759
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sefant77
Sorry, you lost me completly here...writing that Euroleague is garbage etc but Porter is great because he looked good in freaking camp games.
And if you not even really know the euro rules means you dont really watch euro games
Just be honest and say you are absolute biased in general against euro ball...
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Yes, I'm absolutely biased against EuroLeague, where Nick Calathes (a guy who couldn't even stick as the 15th man on the Mavs roster) is one of the best players. Sorry if that hurts your feelings. And, no, I don't watch enough Euro games to understand the nuances of the rules because it makes my eyes bleed, but I assume the calls against defenders are ticky-tack since I've literally seen guys move AWAY from Doncic while he's driving to the basket. A lot... Call it the "second best basketball league in the world" all you want, but the WNBA is a far more competitive, and I say that with 100% sincerity.
Feel free to downplay the camps that Michael Porter Jr. attended, but at least he's been surrounded by future NBA talent for years now, whereas Doncic is playing against guys who couldn't even stick in the league. Just because they're grown-ups doesn't mean they're any good... He certainly never played a game with this much talent on the floor at once:
2017 McDonald's All American -- Michael Porter Jr (MVP), DeAndre Ayton, Jaren Jackson Jr, Tre Young, Wendell Carter, Collin Sexton, Lonnie Walker, Kevin Knox, Mitch Robinson, Troy Brown, Gary Trent Jr, etc.
I think it's a lot easier to gauge a guy who's going up against future NBA players than a guy who's beating scrubs... Doncic will be a good player (which is why I have him ranked #6), but to assume he'll be able to dominate in the NBA just because he can make NBA washouts in Europe look foolish is way off base.
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
Last edited by Underdog; 05-21-2018 at 07:16 PM.
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05-21-2018, 06:57 PM
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#1760
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Guru
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Brasil
Posts: 15,401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog
Michael Porter Jr (MVP), DeAndre Ayton, Jaren Jackson Jr, Tre Young, Wendell Carter, Collin Sexton, Lonnie Walker, Kevin Knox, Mitch Robinson, Troy Brown, Gary Trent Jr, etc.
I think it's a lot easier to gauge a guy who's going up against future NBA players than a guy who's beating scrubs... Doncic will be a good player (which is why I have him ranked #6), but to assume he'll be able to dominate in the NBA just because he can make NBA washouts in Europe look foolish is way off base.
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Who says the players are future NBA players? Maybe some end up in china pretty soon, maybe some are career towel waivers...maybe some has worse NBA careers than Nick Calathes...
Last edited by sefant77; 05-21-2018 at 06:57 PM.
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