08-28-2020, 11:33 AM
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#1601
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: uranus
Posts: 13,656
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tap2390
Doesn’t take a genius to know the optics of a white owner complaining about his white player’s treatment isn’t a smart move right now. Cuban is a businessman above all.
Also, black men getting murdered by police is surely a bigger issue than trash talk on the court. Luka is a young superstar getting the young superstar treatment from his peers.
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Yea but that happened to Luka days before.
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you just proofed how stupid you are - CRAZYBOY
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08-30-2020, 03:46 PM
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#1602
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Guru
Join Date: May 2001
Location: sport
Posts: 39,434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMC0007
Cuban is awfully quiet about it, and the Harrell slurs at Luka.
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Cuban is and always has been a hypocrite.
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08-30-2020, 03:47 PM
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#1603
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Guru
Join Date: May 2001
Location: sport
Posts: 39,434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tap2390
Doesn’t take a genius to know the optics of a white owner complaining about his white player’s treatment isn’t a smart move right now. Cuban is a businessman above all.
Also, black men getting murdered by police is surely a bigger issue than trash talk on the court. Luka is a young superstar getting the young superstar treatment from his peers.
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So shouldn’t the players boycott when a white man is killed by police?
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08-30-2020, 04:35 PM
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#1604
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Diamond Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,918
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Tim MacMahon: Richard Jefferson is absolutely right. The Mavs will look to add a tough vet or two this offseason. That’s been the plan and this series has reinforced the reasoning. “We need to get some dogs,” one member of the front office told me months ago.
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08-30-2020, 08:19 PM
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#1605
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Enemy territory (SA)
Posts: 3,309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murphy3
So shouldn’t the players boycott when a white man is killed by police?
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Really don't want to get drawn into this. If you really want to discuss, let's move it to the political talk sub.
What I've found is that people who automatically resort to whataboutism ultimately fall victim to a false equivalency bias that eliminates context and history from the equation. Everyone thinks they're thinking for themselves and is so grounded in their narrative nowadays. It's a sad time for THOUGHT.
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08-30-2020, 08:25 PM
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#1606
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 43,084
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murphy3
So shouldn’t the players boycott when a white man is killed by police?
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White people shouldnt be killed by cops either.
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08-30-2020, 10:43 PM
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#1607
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Guru
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 13,208
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Vlatko Cančar Denver Nuggets
Luka Dončić Mavericks
Goran Dragic Heat
Mario Hezonja Trail Blazers
Nikola Jokić Nuggets
Boban Marjanović Mavericks
Jusuf Nurkić Trail Blazers
Nikola Vučević Magic
Ivica Zubac Clippers
https://www.nbcsports.com/northwest/...ide-nba-bubble
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08-31-2020, 10:47 AM
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#1608
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Guru
Join Date: May 2001
Location: sport
Posts: 39,434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tap2390
Really don't want to get drawn into this. If you really want to discuss, let's move it to the political talk sub.
What I've found is that people who automatically resort to whataboutism ultimately fall victim to a false equivalency bias that eliminates context and history from the equation. Everyone thinks they're thinking for themselves and is so grounded in their narrative nowadays. It's a sad time for THOUGHT.
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I’m absolutely fine with letting the numbers do the talking. What I have found is that most aren’t receptive to seeing the numbers.
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09-02-2020, 11:44 AM
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#1609
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Diamond Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,918
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With surgery possible after the repair of the anterior cruciate ligament in his left knee, Porzingis will face questions about his durability until the 7-foot-3 Latvian proves otherwise. “I can’t really be too worried about that,” he said. “Both of them were contact injuries. What I can do is just focus on the work that I can put it to make sure that I decrease the possibility of that happening. That means strengthening everything and trying to do all the preventative work I can. That’s in my hands. I can’t be too frustrated over these type of things.” – via ESPN
https://www.espn.com/espn/wire?section=nba&id=29788532
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09-02-2020, 06:45 PM
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#1611
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 43,084
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MFFL
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So Luka gets fined...okay
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09-02-2020, 11:04 PM
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#1612
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Guru
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Denton, TX
Posts: 10,495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BPo001
With surgery possible after the repair of the anterior cruciate ligament in his left knee, Porzingis will face questions about his durability until the 7-foot-3 Latvian proves otherwise. “I can’t really be too worried about that,” he said. “Both of them were contact injuries. What I can do is just focus on the work that I can put it to make sure that I decrease the possibility of that happening. That means strengthening everything and trying to do all the preventative work I can. That’s in my hands. I can’t be too frustrated over these type of things.” – via ESPN
https://www.espn.com/espn/wire?section=nba&id=29788532
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"Porzingis will face questions about his durability.."
What a silly statement. No, he will not "face questions." The question was answered long before he ever came to Dallas. He's not durable. He's injury prone and always will be. We knew that before we ever traded for him. Anyone who doesn't know that A: hasn't followed his career, and B: hasn't followed the history of the NBA. Guys that tall are always injury prone.
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09-03-2020, 12:11 AM
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#1613
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson
"Porzingis will face questions about his durability.."
What a silly statement. No, he will not "face questions." The question was answered long before he ever came to Dallas. He's not durable. He's injury prone and always will be. We knew that before we ever traded for him. Anyone who doesn't know that A: hasn't followed his career, and B: hasn't followed the history of the NBA. Guys that tall are always injury prone.
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I'm hearing a lot of people say that it's encouraging that his major knee injury and this recent one were both "contact injuries" and not overtly the result of him just being an awkward tall guy.
Do you buy that, or do you think it's just rationalization? I can't decide.
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09-03-2020, 12:38 AM
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#1614
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Guru
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Denton, TX
Posts: 10,495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerLeft
I'm hearing a lot of people say that it's encouraging that his major knee injury and this recent one were both "contact injuries" and not overtly the result of him just being an awkward tall guy.
Do you buy that, or do you think it's just rationalization? I can't decide.
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I buy that it's encouraging. But I also know that he's injury prone. The two aren't mutually exclusive. Even if they're contact injuries, I still imagine his knees can handle less contact than most other players. He'll probably have nagging injuries his entire career, contact or no. That's just the way it is. To my knowledge, the only guy in NBA history 7'2 or taller that didn't have constant injury problems was Kareem.
That however doesn't mean that he isn't worth the risk, or that the Mavs shouldn't have made that trade. I'm already hearing rumblings from some fans about the trade being mistake, and that's just ridiculous. That trade was a no brainer. The Mavs would have been crazy not to do it.
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09-03-2020, 03:24 AM
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#1615
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson
I buy that it's encouraging. But I also know that he's injury prone. The two aren't mutually exclusive. Even if they're contact injuries, I still imagine his knees can handle less contact than most other players. He'll probably have nagging injuries his entire career, contact or no. That's just the way it is. To my knowledge, the only guy in NBA history 7'2 or taller that didn't have constant injury problems was Kareem.
That however doesn't mean that he isn't worth the risk, or that the Mavs shouldn't have made that trade. I'm already hearing rumblings from some fans about the trade being mistake, and that's just ridiculous. That trade was a no brainer. The Mavs would have been crazy not to do it.
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Definitely agree with the second paragraph.
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09-03-2020, 04:46 AM
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#1616
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson
I buy that it's encouraging. But I also know that he's injury prone. The two aren't mutually exclusive. Even if they're contact injuries, I still imagine his knees can handle less contact than most other players. He'll probably have nagging injuries his entire career, contact or no. That's just the way it is. To my knowledge, the only guy in NBA history 7'2 or taller that didn't have constant injury problems was Kareem.
That however doesn't mean that he isn't worth the risk, or that the Mavs shouldn't have made that trade. I'm already hearing rumblings from some fans about the trade being mistake, and that's just ridiculous. That trade was a no brainer. The Mavs would have been crazy not to do it.
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Is there a difference between 7'2 and 7'0" which was Dirk's height? There aren't many people over 7'2", so not sure the fact that you can't recall anyone without injury problems is relevant at all.
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09-03-2020, 05:05 AM
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#1617
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Guru
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Denton, TX
Posts: 10,495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshJive
Is there a difference between 7'2 and 7'0"
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Yes.
Quote:
There aren't many people over 7'2", so not sure the fact that you can't recall anyone without injury problems is relevant at all.
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Is there a scientific study available on this? Short of that, we're all relying on anecdotal evidence. You're right that not many people are over 7'2, but from the small sample size available, there does seem to be a trend of those players having careers marred by injuries. Yao Ming, Rik Smits, Ralph Sampson, Manute Bol, Shawn Bradley, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Chuck Nevitt, and yes, Kristaps Porzingis are/were all injury prone throughout their careers (I think we have enough history with KP to make that call.) Kareem, Mutombo, and Mark Eaton seem to be the exceptions.
But I'm sorry if my knowledge of NBA history isn't relevant "at all."
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09-03-2020, 05:15 AM
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#1618
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Enemy territory (SA)
Posts: 3,309
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https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...one-to-injury/
Article from a few years ago. Tall players are statistically more likely to miss games. Doesn’t mean it will necessarily hold true for Porzingis moving forward, but not looking great given his history.
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09-03-2020, 05:21 AM
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#1619
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson
Yes.
Is there a scientific study available on this? Short of that, we're all relying on anecdotal evidence. You're right that not many people are over 7'2, but from the small sample size available, there does seem to be a trend of those players having careers marred by injuries. Yao Ming, Rik Smits, Ralph Sampson, Manute Bol, Shawn Bradley, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Chuck Nevitt, and yes, Kristaps Porzingis are/were all injury prone throughout their careers (I think we have enough history with KP to make that call.) Kareem, Mutombo, and Mark Eaton seem to be the exceptions.
But I'm sorry if my knowledge of NBA history isn't relevant "at all."
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Why is the answer yes? What is the difference? Your anecdotes aren't compelling. Shawn Bradley had to quit, because of injury? It wasn't too far back in history that NBA players were considered over the hill at 30.
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09-03-2020, 05:25 AM
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#1620
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tap2390
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Embiid is 7'0" so he is lower than the magical 7'2" death height, and shouldn't have any problems.
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09-03-2020, 09:20 AM
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#1621
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 43,084
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshJive
Embiid is 7'0" so he is lower than the magical 7'2" death height, and shouldn't have any problems.
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How do you get that from that article?
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09-03-2020, 09:57 AM
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#1622
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Guru
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Denton, TX
Posts: 10,495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshJive
Why is the answer yes? What is the difference?
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The answer is yes, because the answer is literally yes. The difference between 7'0 and 7'2 is two inches to be precise. I don't think it requires further explanation.
Quote:
Your anecdotes aren't compelling.
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Again, short of a real scientific study, all we have are anecdotes. It is an admittedly small sample size. But there seems to be trend. Don't agree? Fine. It's not a scientific theory, and I never represented it as such. It's my own personal eyeball test.
Quote:
Shawn Bradley had to quit, because of injury? It wasn't too far back in history that NBA players were considered over the hill at 30.
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Who said anything about quitting because of injury? I said players over 7'2 seem to have history of being injury prone. I have no idea why Bradley quit. But I do know he missed a lot of games.
Last edited by Thespiralgoeson; 09-03-2020 at 10:08 AM.
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09-03-2020, 10:14 AM
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#1623
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 43,084
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshJive
Why is the answer yes? What is the difference? Your anecdotes aren't compelling. Shawn Bradley had to quit, because of injury? It wasn't too far back in history that NBA players were considered over the hill at 30.
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The anecdote isn't compelling to you, maybe, but when studies have shown that played 7'0" and over are way more prone to injuries and guys 7'2" and seemingly always injured, it's pretty darn compelling to me.
Bradley? Missed a ton of games. Ming? Missed a ton of games and retired early. Bol? Injuured a lot. Muresan, same.
Same for Sabonis (7'3"), Thabeet (7'3") and KP (7'3")
Even Tacko Fall is injured and he's only in his first season.
Last edited by EricaLubarsky; 09-03-2020 at 10:17 AM.
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09-03-2020, 11:51 AM
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#1624
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Guru
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Denton, TX
Posts: 10,495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky
The anecdote isn't compelling to you, maybe, but when studies have shown that played 7'0" and over are way more prone to injuries and guys 7'2" and seemingly always injured, it's pretty darn compelling to me.
Bradley? Missed a ton of games. Ming? Missed a ton of games and retired early. Bol? Injuured a lot. Muresan, same.
Same for Sabonis (7'3"), Thabeet (7'3") and KP (7'3")
Even Tacko Fall is injured and he's only in his first season.
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Thank you.
I checked around on google to see if I could find any kind of list or study on the injury history of well-over-seven-feet-tall players. I couldn't find anything that specific. All I could find was this wikipedia list- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...iation_history
According to this- assuming it's complete- there have been 26 players in the history of the NBA that were 7'3 or taller. As near as I can tell, Mark Eaton is the only guy on that list who wasn't injury prone.
It may not be a scientific study, but common sense tells me that 25 out of 26 is a trend.
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09-03-2020, 12:25 PM
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#1625
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Diamond Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,918
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On 9/3/2010 Roddy B hit 9 3’s vs. Golden State with a career-high 40 points.
Still the franchise record for most points by a bench player in Mavs history.
#freeRoddyB
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09-03-2020, 12:59 PM
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#1626
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BPo001
On 9/3/2010 Roddy B hit 9 3’s vs. Golden State with a career-high 40 points.
Still the franchise record for most points by a bench player in Mavs history.
#freeRoddyB
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I can assure you no NBA game has ever been played on 9/3.
__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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09-03-2020, 01:08 PM
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#1627
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Diamond Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,918
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
I can assure you no NBA game has ever been played on 9/3.
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Lol I didn’t really think about it when I posted it. I just copied/pasted from the Dallas Mavs Facebook page. Looks like it was 3/27/2010. I guess I edited the post to remove emojis and some of the wording, so that makes sense. My bad!
Last edited by BPo001; 09-03-2020 at 01:09 PM.
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09-03-2020, 03:55 PM
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#1628
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Guru
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 13,208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson
Thank you.
I checked around on google to see if I could find any kind of list or study on the injury history of well-over-seven-feet-tall players. I couldn't find anything that specific. All I could find was this wikipedia list- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...iation_history
According to this- assuming it's complete- there have been 26 players in the history of the NBA that were 7'3 or taller. As near as I can tell, Mark Eaton is the only guy on that list who wasn't injury prone.
It may not be a scientific study, but common sense tells me that 25 out of 26 is a trend.
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Kareem was 7'2" and had very few injury problems and an exceptionally long career. Most of the 7'3"+ guys usually weighed around 280 to 300 pounds which is why they had a lot of injuries
KP & Kareem played at 240 pounds
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09-03-2020, 04:02 PM
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#1629
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Guru
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 13,208
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Plus sports science has advanced so much
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09-03-2020, 06:51 PM
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#1630
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Guru
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Denton, TX
Posts: 10,495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MFFL
Kareem was 7'2" and had very few injury problems and an exceptionally long career. Most of the 7'3"+ guys usually weighed around 280 to 300 pounds which is why they had a lot of injuries
KP & Kareem played at 240 pounds
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I mentioned Kareem above multiple times. Kareem, Mutombo, and Mark Eaton seem to be exceptions.
Also, I'm not sure that the 280-300 pounds is what caused those insanely tall guys to be injury prone. Most of them were bean polls, as is KP.
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09-03-2020, 06:54 PM
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#1631
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Guru
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Denton, TX
Posts: 10,495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MFFL
Plus sports science has advanced so much
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I mean, how much has it advanced since October, 2018? Because that's when he tore his acl.
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09-03-2020, 07:04 PM
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#1632
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 43,084
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I mean big guys get injured more, but even if this is only about KP, the dudehas only played 58% of the games he could play
1st season - missed 10 games
2nd season - missed 16 games
3rd season - missed 34 games
4th season - missed 82 games
5th season - missed 28 games
It's hard to depend on a guy who has only historically been able to play a little more than half of available games.
Last edited by EricaLubarsky; 09-03-2020 at 07:12 PM.
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09-03-2020, 07:12 PM
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#1633
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Guru
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Denton, TX
Posts: 10,495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky
I mean
1st season - missed 10 games
2nd season - missed 16 games
3rd season - missed 34 games
4th season - missed 82 games
5th season - missed 28 games
Big guys get injured more, but even if this is only about KP, the dude is perpetually injured. He's only played 58.5% of available games-- barely more than half.
We even controlled his minutes and sat him out B2Bs and he still missed half of the playoffs.
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That's what I'm talking about. All these "questions" about his durability seem silly. As far as I'm concerned, there is no "question." We already have the answer. He's injury prone. The Mavs knew what they were signing up for when they traded for him- or at least they should have known. Anyone who didn't know the dude was injury prone hasn't followed his career.
Does that mean it was a bad trade? Hell no. If you're the Mavs, you HAVE to make that trade. You make that trade every damn time. But the risk of injury is always there with KP. I seriously doubt he'll ever play an 82 game season in his entire career. I assume he's always going to miss at least 10-15 games. We just have to cross our fingers and hope that it doesn't happen during the playoffs, as it did this time.
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09-03-2020, 10:09 PM
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#1634
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Guru
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 13,208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson
I mean, how much has it advanced since October, 2018? Because that's when he tore his acl.
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But so many of the super tall guys you posted played around or before the year 2000. That's a lot of medical knowledge added since then
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09-03-2020, 11:04 PM
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#1635
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Guru
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 13,208
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Gheorge Muresan 7'7" 315#
***pituitary gland disorder - known to cause health issues
Manute Bol 7'6" 200#
***7 seasons of over 70 games played despite only being a shot blocker
Slavko Vranes 7'6" 302#
***only played 1 NBA game, played 20 seasons in Europe
Shawn Bradley 7'6" 275#
***played 14 seasons, last 10 seasons played 67 games, 73, 64, 49 (of 50 - strike year), 77, 82, 53, 81, 66, & 77 games
Yao Ming 7'6" 310#
***sad
Chuck Nevitt 7'5" 250#
***spare
Pavel Podkolzin 7'5" 305#
***ultimate spare
Sim Bhullar 7'5" 359#
***spare
Tacko Fall 7'5" 311#
***we'll see
Mark Eaton 7'4" 290#
***11 year NBA career - averaged 79 games per year
Rik Smits 7'4" 250#
***12 year NBA career - averaged 72 games per year
Ralph Sampson 7'4" 275#
***knee and back derailed career
Boban Marjanovic 7'4" 290#
***I love him but only plays about half the games by coaches decision
Priest Lauderdale 7'4" 325#
***spare
Peter John Ramos 7'3" 290#
***spare
Randy Breuer 7'3" 263#
***13 year NBA career - backup big man
Zydrunas Ilgauskas 7'3" 260#
***13 year NBA career - healthy 11 year average of 74 games per year
Arvydas Sabonis 7'3" 292#
***30 years old when he started his first NBA game, 7 season NBA career - averaged 67 games per year
Hasheem Thabeet 7'3" 290#
***spare
Swede Halbrook 7'3" 235#
***spare
Keith Closs 7/3" 212#
***spare
Ha Seung-Jin 7'3" 305#
***spare
Aleksandar Radojevic 7'3" 250#
***spare
Walter Tavares 7'3" 265#
***spare
Tibor Pleiß 7'3" 256#
***spare
Kristaps Porzingis 7'3" 240#
***we'll see
26 players
2 - careers derailed by injury
2 - we'll see
1 - who played 20 seasons in Europe
1 - Boban
1 - who played a decade in Europe and then 7 in NBA
5 - who played over a decade in NBA
1 - pituitary gland disorder
1 - Manute Bol
12 - spares
Bradley and Ilgauskas had early injury woes and then played relatively healthy for a decade afterwards
Last edited by MFFL; 09-03-2020 at 11:24 PM.
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09-03-2020, 11:11 PM
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#1636
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 43,084
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KP still has only played 58% of all available games in five seasons.
Isn't that what this is all about?
I don't really care if a few players have been healthy. KP has not.
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09-03-2020, 11:22 PM
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#1637
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Guru
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 13,208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky
KP still has only played 58% of all available games in five seasons.
Isn't that what this is all about?
I don't really care if a few players have been healthy. KP has not.
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And it is still early in his career. As I said earlier, Bradley and Ilgauskas had early injury woes and then played relatively healthy for a decade afterwards
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09-04-2020, 12:49 AM
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#1638
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Guru
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Denton, TX
Posts: 10,495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MFFL
And it is still early in his career. As I said earlier, Bradley and Ilgauskas had early injury woes and then played relatively healthy for a decade afterwards
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I mean, I really, really hope you're right. I hope like hell there's no actual link with being 7'3 and injury prone, and that there's no causation to this (what appears to me to be) correlation.
I hope KP has just been unlucky for the first five years of his career, and that he'll play 70+ games a season from now on. That would be awesome.
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09-04-2020, 12:54 AM
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#1639
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 974
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He'll probably never be an 82 game player. That much is clear. However, it's beyond ridiculous that we're already wondering if we want the guy. He's not Chandler Parsons. The dude just played on a torn meniscus and put up like 30/10. Yes, I'm glad he's on my team.
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09-04-2020, 08:24 AM
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#1640
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Enemy territory (SA)
Posts: 3,309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerLeft
He'll probably never be an 82 game player. That much is clear. However, it's beyond ridiculous that we're already wondering if we want the guy. He's not Chandler Parsons. The dude just played on a torn meniscus and put up like 30/10. Yes, I'm glad he's on my team.
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Completely agree. He has been hurt a lot so far, but a player like him should get the benefit of the doubt whenever possible. He's a 25 year-old 20/10 guy that also anchored our defense. I completely understand the concerns however.
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