With the 18th pick the Mavs select Josh Green

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Anyone know why Green got a DNP in the GLeague?

Terry had a wrist injury which is why he didn't play

Maybe because he isn't very good. With every day that passes, looks more and more like the Mavs outsmarted themselves with Saddiq Bey on the board. He looks to be an already solid all around 3 and D type of guy. Big Whiff?

[tap2390]

Bump with Josh Green highlights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-EW6Xnn6_Q


Losing out on Saddiq Bey definitely felt like whiff to start the season, but I think we all see a potentially elite defensive wing in Green... if he starts hitting threes, watch out.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by tap2390

Bump with Josh Green highlights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-EW6Xnn6_Q


Losing out on Saddiq Bey definitely felt like whiff to start the season, but I think we all see a potentially elite defensive wing in Green... if he starts hitting threes, watch out.

I like Green just as much as the next guy

But anyone who has watched Bey throughout the entire season will tell you Green has long ways to go to reach the level of play Bey has displayed on nightly basis.

Dude is a legit two way wing who has also displayed the ability to carry a offense at times

I'm not sure Green will ever be considered a 3rd or 4th option on a team offensively and Bey has proven already as a rookie he's capable of being a solid 2nd or 3rd option

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

I like Green just as much as the next guy

But anyone who has watched Bey throughout the entire season will tell you Green has long ways to go to reach the level of play Bey has displayed on nightly basis.

Dude is a legit two way wing who has also displayed the ability to carry a offense at times

I'm not sure Green will ever be considered a 3rd or 4th option on a team offensively and Bey has proven already as a rookie he's capable of being a solid 2nd or 3rd option

Depends on the team. It's hard to not be 2nd best player other Detroits of the league.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

I like Green just as much as the next guy

But anyone who has watched Bey throughout the entire season will tell you Green has long ways to go to reach the level of play Bey has displayed on nightly basis.

Dude is a legit two way wing who has also displayed the ability to carry a offense at times

I'm not sure Green will ever be considered a 3rd or 4th option on a team offensively and Bey has proven already as a rookie he's capable of being a solid 2nd or 3rd option

I've seen Bey a few times and I don't think he's the defender Green is, especially with smaller quicker guards. And Green is in another tier as far as athleticism goes. He is also nearly 2 years younger so while he's really far away offensively right now we do need to be patient with him. Bey wasn't half the player his freshman year that he was his sophomore year.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Depends on the team. It's hard to not be 2nd best player other Detroits of the league.

I think Bey could be a 2nd or 3rd option moving forward on a lot of teams in the NBA

I think he he has the ability to similar to Chris Middleton type of player as he gets older

I'm not sure Green will ever reach that level offensively to be a 2nd or 3rd option you can count on every night as a scorer.

[Some Guy]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

I think Bey could be a 2nd or 3rd option moving forward on a lot of teams in the NBA

You mean he could be 2nd or 3rd option now - this season? Or, he could develop into that at some point in the future?

[BPo001]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

I like Green just as much as the next guy

But anyone who has watched Bey throughout the entire season will tell you Green has long ways to go to reach the level of play Bey has displayed on nightly basis.

Dude is a legit two way wing who has also displayed the ability to carry a offense at times

I'm not sure Green will ever be considered a 3rd or 4th option on a team offensively and Bey has proven already as a rookie he's capable of being a solid 2nd or 3rd option

There’s a big difference between the 2nd option in Detroit, and bring the 2nd option on a title contender. Detroit is the 2nd worst team in the league.

[sefant77]

Wake me up in 1.5 years with the neverending Bey blablabla.

And nothing is easier than putting up stats playing with zero pressure on a top3 bad team in the league. Useless to compare rookie seasons

[tap2390]

I think we’re collectively (I’m guilty of this as well) overvaluing Saddiq Bey. He’s basically putting up 12 points a game on 40 FG% / 38 3P% splits on a team without any aspirations. He’s third on the team in minutes per game, and the Pistons aren’t exactly getting motivated opponents.

Ultimately it will of course depend on Green’s work ethic, but Green comes with a pedigree and innate athleticism that you can’t teach. When he matches that with his hustle I fully understand why the FO took him at #18.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by tap2390

I think we’re collectively (I’m guilty of this as well) overvaluing Saddiq Bey. He’s basically putting up 12 points a game on 40 FG% / 38 3P% splits on a team without any aspirations. He’s third on the team in minutes per game, and the Pistons aren’t exactly getting motivated opponents.

Ultimately it will of course depend on Green’s work ethic, but Green comes with a pedigree and innate athleticism that you can’t teach. When he matches that with his hustle I fully understand why the FO took him at #18.

This exactly. Bey is a catch and shoot guy- which is hugely valuable. But he’s much nearer his ceiling than Green. Bey isn’t bendy for lack of a better term. He’s a stiffer athlete and slower of foot. I like Bey, watched him at Nova. Would’ve been happy if we had taken him. But I’m glad they took Green. Green with his strength and length will be switchable 1-4 on defense.

I don’t see Bey as a true #2 on a good team. Someone mentioned Middleton. But Middleton has much better handles, floor vision and can score at all 3 levels. I don’t see Bey suddenly developing that level floor vision/handles. In fact I’d say Green is already better in those than Bey. Bey is also a lacklustre rebounder; he wasn’t good in college either and that’s a skill that is reliably translatable. Green is already a plus rebounder I’d wager if you extrapolated his stats per-36 or whatever.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by Some Guy

You mean he could be 2nd or 3rd option now - this season? Or, he could develop into that at some point in the future?

In the future

Not right now he's still not a finished product.

I think he will continue to get better offensively

I made the Middleton comparisons because I believe that is Bey's floor.

Middleton developed his game from being just a spot up shooter in his early years. I see similar strides by Bey down the road......

Again I like Green i mentioned this on draft night I live in Arizona and watched him often before he came to Dallas.

My expectations of him dating all the way back to draft night was that he would develop into a terrific wing defender and his best offense would be on the move more of cutter/slasher type not someone who will score in high teens doing his career.

Where as I think Bey will develope into a dependable 20+ PPG scorer

[Dallas41]

Pretty good article on how Green could be used in Dallas to maximize his skill set

Playmaking can substitute for shooting, given the right lineups
https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2021/5...mes-to-spacing

Spacing. Spacing. Spacing! Spacing is one of the most important buzzwords when it comes to current NBA offenses. This is even called the "Pace and Space Era." Perhaps no team is more committed to spacing than the Dallas Mavericks. Therefore, it stands to reason that shooting is of paramount importance for any player hoping to gain minutes for the Dallas Mavericks.

This is not exactly a good thing for Josh Green. While it stands to reason that shooting is incredibly important to building an effective offense, my contention is that when deployed around good shooting, playmaking actually becomes a more important and effective part of a successful offense than an additional average to mediocre shooter.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Pretty good article on how Green could be used in Dallas to maximize his skill set

Playmaking can substitute for shooting, given the right lineups
https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2021/5...mes-to-spacing

Spacing. Spacing. Spacing! Spacing is one of the most important buzzwords when it comes to current NBA offenses. This is even called the "Pace and Space Era." Perhaps no team is more committed to spacing than the Dallas Mavericks. Therefore, it stands to reason that shooting is of paramount importance for any player hoping to gain minutes for the Dallas Mavericks.

This is not exactly a good thing for Josh Green. While it stands to reason that shooting is incredibly important to building an effective offense, my contention is that when deployed around good shooting, playmaking actually becomes a more important and effective part of a successful offense than an additional average to mediocre shooter.

Exactly. It’s why we were after Kemba and Halliburton (supposedly). Having the vertical lob threat augmented by another playmaker or two will make Luka unstoppable. Just the fact that Green can put the ball on the floor and get to the rim in a hurry brings great value already. His court vision has been borderline revelatory. He’s making passes that J-Rich, THJ, Dodo and of course Maxi can’t make on the move. Heck, Brunson can’t make some of the passes he makes just due to lack of length and hops.

I compared him to Gary Harris pre-draft. I think a lot of people did. But he already is showing signs of being much more than that. Harris can’t guard 1-4 effectively and he doesn’t really have much court vision. I don’t think he has Green’s reach and definitely doesn’t have his burst. It may be the football/rugby backgrounds that lead to the comparisons and where they were drafted but I think Green has way more upside. I’m seeing him more as a smaller Aaron Gordon with the playmaking, defensive versatility and unfortunately, for now, the uncertain shooting.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

In the future

Not right now he's still not a finished product.

I think he will continue to get better offensively

I made the Middleton comparisons because I believe that is Bey's floor.

Middleton developed his game from being just a spot up shooter in his early years. I see similar strides by Bey down the road......

Again I like Green i mentioned this on draft night I live in Arizona and watched him often before he came to Dallas.

My expectations of him dating all the way back to draft night was that he would develop into a terrific wing defender and his best offense would be on the move more of cutter/slasher type not someone who will score in high teens doing his career.

Where as I think Bey will develope into a dependable 20+ PPG scorer

His FLOOR is a multi time all-star and #2 on a title contender?!?!

I do not see that at all. I don't think I'd say that about anyone not in the top 5 in any given NBA draft.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

His FLOOR is a multi time all-star and #2 on a title contender?!?!

I do not see that at all. I don't think I'd say that about anyone not in the top 5 in any given NBA draft.

Middleton was a 2nd round pick

It's not out of the realm of possibility for Bey to develope into an All-Star

[Some Guy]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

It's not out of the realm of possibility for Bey to develope into an All-Star

I don't think people usually use the term 'floor' to mean "not out of the realm of possibility".

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Middleton was a 2nd round pick

It's not out of the realm of possibility for Bey to develope into an All-Star

Not sure what Middleton's draft position has to do with you saying Saddiq's floor is Middleton. Saying his floor is Middleton means at minimum he's going to be a multi time all star and legitimate #2 scoring option on a contender. That barring injury at his worst if he doesn't improve the way that he could if he reached his ceiling he would be Middleton. What is his ceiling then? Top 5 all time? Perennial all-nba?

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Not sure what Middleton's draft position has to do with you saying Saddiq's floor is Middleton. Saying his floor is Middleton means at minimum he's going to be a multi time all star and legitimate #2 scoring option on a contender. That barring injury at his worst if he doesn't improve the way that he could if he reached his ceiling he would be Middleton. What is his ceiling then? Top 5 all time? Perennial all-nba?

I responded with his draft position because of your response to guys outside the top 5 of a draft.

My opinion is Bey will turn into a all-star player eventually (doesn't mean he'll make the All star team every year)

I think he can be as equal to Middleton in terms of production down the road.

Now to set the record straight that is my OPINION

We aren't all going to have the same opinion regarding players

But that's my opinion I believe Bey will turn into a terrific two way player capable of vaulting into a 2nd or 3rd scoring option even on a good team.


I don't think Green offensively will be that type of player but again that is my opinion

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by Some Guy

I don't think people usually use the term 'floor' to mean "not out of the realm of possibility".

This lol.

Not even his ceiling is Middleton because of his ball handling etc

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by sefant77

This lol.

Not even his ceiling is Middleton because of his ball handling etc

well that's why we are entitled to our own opinion

Middleton wasn't putting the ball on the floor early in his career btw

He developed it over time

[sefant77]

Using a term in the wrong way has nothing to do with "own opinion"

And its actually fucking easy:
Floor: worst case
Ceiling: best case

And no, Beys worst case scenario isnt Middleton

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Using a term in the wrong way has nothing to do with "own opinion"

And its actually fucking easy:
Floor: worst case
Ceiling: best case

And no, Beys worst case scenario isnt Middleton

but again isn't that your opinion?

why i'm not allowed to have my own opinion....

seems like you get upset over the smallest of things just because someone feels a certain way about another player

I get it he's not on the Mavs and we are all pulling for Green but man to try and go out your way and bring down Bey seems kind of silly

we can agree to disagree no sense in trying to convince each other one way or the other time will tell

[tap2390]

I personally don’t see the Middleton comparison. To me Bey looks like a supercharged Maxi Kleber, which is a great piece on any team. Green, IMO, is by far the superior perimeter defender. He has Ben Simmons-level defensive potential. Green is also 1.5 years younger than Bey... he will spend that time developing with the Mavs instead of college. We should see significant gains from him next season. All in all, time will tell, but even with my homer glasses off I think I take Green over Bey today.

[Scoobay]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

but again isn't that your opinion?

why i'm not allowed to have my own opinion....

seems like you get upset over the smallest of things just because someone feels a certain way about another player

I get it he's not on the Mavs and we are all pulling for Green but man to try and go out your way and bring down Bey seems kind of silly

we can agree to disagree no sense in trying to convince each other one way or the other time will tell

i think folks are just a bit in disbelief at your assertion that Saddiq Bey's absolute worst case scenario is Middleton. i happen to think he is a nice player who will have a long NBA career, but that's a very strong statement for a rookie player.

I'm curious then - if that's his worst case scenario (18-20 ppg, 2 all star appearances) what do you see as his absolute best case scenario?

[SMC0007]

Ill take a stab a this..

Saddiq Bey:

Best case: Tobias Harris

Worst case: Ryan Anderson

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Ill take a stab a this..

Saddiq Bey:

Best case: Tobias Harris

Worst case: Ryan Anderson

��

Ryan Anderson had some nice seasons— think he got paid after that career year and then never recaptured the magic. Can’t remember if he got hurt or just lost a step.

[MFFL]

Josh Green is looking like a rotation player finally