02-28-2021, 12:28 PM
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#41
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Member
Join Date: May 2018
Location: 25,000 light years from center of Milky Way Galaxy
Posts: 684
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky
Anyone know why Green got a DNP in the GLeague?
Terry had a wrist injury which is why he didn't play
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Maybe because he isn't very good. With every day that passes, looks more and more like the Mavs outsmarted themselves with Saddiq Bey on the board. He looks to be an already solid all around 3 and D type of guy. Big Whiff?
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05-05-2021, 05:07 PM
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#42
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Enemy territory (SA)
Posts: 3,305
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Bump with Josh Green highlights.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-EW6Xnn6_Q
Losing out on Saddiq Bey definitely felt like whiff to start the season, but I think we all see a potentially elite defensive wing in Green... if he starts hitting threes, watch out.
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05-05-2021, 06:46 PM
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#43
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 5,273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tap2390
Bump with Josh Green highlights.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-EW6Xnn6_Q
Losing out on Saddiq Bey definitely felt like whiff to start the season, but I think we all see a potentially elite defensive wing in Green... if he starts hitting threes, watch out.
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I like Green just as much as the next guy
But anyone who has watched Bey throughout the entire season will tell you Green has long ways to go to reach the level of play Bey has displayed on nightly basis.
Dude is a legit two way wing who has also displayed the ability to carry a offense at times
I'm not sure Green will ever be considered a 3rd or 4th option on a team offensively and Bey has proven already as a rookie he's capable of being a solid 2nd or 3rd option
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05-05-2021, 06:56 PM
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#44
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: uranus
Posts: 13,643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas41
I like Green just as much as the next guy
But anyone who has watched Bey throughout the entire season will tell you Green has long ways to go to reach the level of play Bey has displayed on nightly basis.
Dude is a legit two way wing who has also displayed the ability to carry a offense at times
I'm not sure Green will ever be considered a 3rd or 4th option on a team offensively and Bey has proven already as a rookie he's capable of being a solid 2nd or 3rd option
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Depends on the team. It's hard to not be 2nd best player other Detroits of the league.
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you just proofed how stupid you are - CRAZYBOY
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05-05-2021, 06:57 PM
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#45
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas41
I like Green just as much as the next guy
But anyone who has watched Bey throughout the entire season will tell you Green has long ways to go to reach the level of play Bey has displayed on nightly basis.
Dude is a legit two way wing who has also displayed the ability to carry a offense at times
I'm not sure Green will ever be considered a 3rd or 4th option on a team offensively and Bey has proven already as a rookie he's capable of being a solid 2nd or 3rd option
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I've seen Bey a few times and I don't think he's the defender Green is, especially with smaller quicker guards. And Green is in another tier as far as athleticism goes. He is also nearly 2 years younger so while he's really far away offensively right now we do need to be patient with him. Bey wasn't half the player his freshman year that he was his sophomore year.
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05-05-2021, 09:04 PM
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#46
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 5,273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMC0007
Depends on the team. It's hard to not be 2nd best player other Detroits of the league.
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I think Bey could be a 2nd or 3rd option moving forward on a lot of teams in the NBA
I think he he has the ability to similar to Chris Middleton type of player as he gets older
I'm not sure Green will ever reach that level offensively to be a 2nd or 3rd option you can count on every night as a scorer.
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05-05-2021, 09:23 PM
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#47
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 380
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas41
I think Bey could be a 2nd or 3rd option moving forward on a lot of teams in the NBA
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You mean he could be 2nd or 3rd option now - this season? Or, he could develop into that at some point in the future?
__________________
“you had nothing to say about it and yet made the nothing up into words.”
― C.S. Lewis, Perelandra
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05-05-2021, 09:24 PM
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#48
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Diamond Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,815
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas41
I like Green just as much as the next guy
But anyone who has watched Bey throughout the entire season will tell you Green has long ways to go to reach the level of play Bey has displayed on nightly basis.
Dude is a legit two way wing who has also displayed the ability to carry a offense at times
I'm not sure Green will ever be considered a 3rd or 4th option on a team offensively and Bey has proven already as a rookie he's capable of being a solid 2nd or 3rd option
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There’s a big difference between the 2nd option in Detroit, and bring the 2nd option on a title contender. Detroit is the 2nd worst team in the league.
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05-05-2021, 09:55 PM
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#49
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Guru
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Brasil
Posts: 15,401
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Wake me up in 1.5 years with the neverending Bey blablabla.
And nothing is easier than putting up stats playing with zero pressure on a top3 bad team in the league. Useless to compare rookie seasons
Last edited by sefant77; 05-05-2021 at 09:56 PM.
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05-05-2021, 11:14 PM
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#50
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Enemy territory (SA)
Posts: 3,305
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I think we’re collectively (I’m guilty of this as well) overvaluing Saddiq Bey. He’s basically putting up 12 points a game on 40 FG% / 38 3P% splits on a team without any aspirations. He’s third on the team in minutes per game, and the Pistons aren’t exactly getting motivated opponents.
Ultimately it will of course depend on Green’s work ethic, but Green comes with a pedigree and innate athleticism that you can’t teach. When he matches that with his hustle I fully understand why the FO took him at #18.
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05-05-2021, 11:30 PM
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#51
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tap2390
I think we’re collectively (I’m guilty of this as well) overvaluing Saddiq Bey. He’s basically putting up 12 points a game on 40 FG% / 38 3P% splits on a team without any aspirations. He’s third on the team in minutes per game, and the Pistons aren’t exactly getting motivated opponents.
Ultimately it will of course depend on Green’s work ethic, but Green comes with a pedigree and innate athleticism that you can’t teach. When he matches that with his hustle I fully understand why the FO took him at #18.
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This exactly. Bey is a catch and shoot guy- which is hugely valuable. But he’s much nearer his ceiling than Green. Bey isn’t bendy for lack of a better term. He’s a stiffer athlete and slower of foot. I like Bey, watched him at Nova. Would’ve been happy if we had taken him. But I’m glad they took Green. Green with his strength and length will be switchable 1-4 on defense.
I don’t see Bey as a true #2 on a good team. Someone mentioned Middleton. But Middleton has much better handles, floor vision and can score at all 3 levels. I don’t see Bey suddenly developing that level floor vision/handles. In fact I’d say Green is already better in those than Bey. Bey is also a lacklustre rebounder; he wasn’t good in college either and that’s a skill that is reliably translatable. Green is already a plus rebounder I’d wager if you extrapolated his stats per-36 or whatever.
Last edited by mac222b; 05-05-2021 at 11:34 PM.
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05-05-2021, 11:54 PM
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#52
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 5,273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Some Guy
You mean he could be 2nd or 3rd option now - this season? Or, he could develop into that at some point in the future?
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In the future
Not right now he's still not a finished product.
I think he will continue to get better offensively
I made the Middleton comparisons because I believe that is Bey's floor.
Middleton developed his game from being just a spot up shooter in his early years. I see similar strides by Bey down the road......
Again I like Green i mentioned this on draft night I live in Arizona and watched him often before he came to Dallas.
My expectations of him dating all the way back to draft night was that he would develop into a terrific wing defender and his best offense would be on the move more of cutter/slasher type not someone who will score in high teens doing his career.
Where as I think Bey will develope into a dependable 20+ PPG scorer
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05-06-2021, 12:25 AM
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#53
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 5,273
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Pretty good article on how Green could be used in Dallas to maximize his skill set
Playmaking can substitute for shooting, given the right lineups
https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2021/5...mes-to-spacing
Spacing. Spacing. Spacing! Spacing is one of the most important buzzwords when it comes to current NBA offenses. This is even called the "Pace and Space Era." Perhaps no team is more committed to spacing than the Dallas Mavericks. Therefore, it stands to reason that shooting is of paramount importance for any player hoping to gain minutes for the Dallas Mavericks.
This is not exactly a good thing for Josh Green. While it stands to reason that shooting is incredibly important to building an effective offense, my contention is that when deployed around good shooting, playmaking actually becomes a more important and effective part of a successful offense than an additional average to mediocre shooter.
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05-06-2021, 12:37 AM
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#54
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas41
Pretty good article on how Green could be used in Dallas to maximize his skill set
Playmaking can substitute for shooting, given the right lineups
https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2021/5...mes-to-spacing
Spacing. Spacing. Spacing! Spacing is one of the most important buzzwords when it comes to current NBA offenses. This is even called the "Pace and Space Era." Perhaps no team is more committed to spacing than the Dallas Mavericks. Therefore, it stands to reason that shooting is of paramount importance for any player hoping to gain minutes for the Dallas Mavericks.
This is not exactly a good thing for Josh Green. While it stands to reason that shooting is incredibly important to building an effective offense, my contention is that when deployed around good shooting, playmaking actually becomes a more important and effective part of a successful offense than an additional average to mediocre shooter.
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Exactly. It’s why we were after Kemba and Halliburton (supposedly). Having the vertical lob threat augmented by another playmaker or two will make Luka unstoppable. Just the fact that Green can put the ball on the floor and get to the rim in a hurry brings great value already. His court vision has been borderline revelatory. He’s making passes that J-Rich, THJ, Dodo and of course Maxi can’t make on the move. Heck, Brunson can’t make some of the passes he makes just due to lack of length and hops.
I compared him to Gary Harris pre-draft. I think a lot of people did. But he already is showing signs of being much more than that. Harris can’t guard 1-4 effectively and he doesn’t really have much court vision. I don’t think he has Green’s reach and definitely doesn’t have his burst. It may be the football/rugby backgrounds that lead to the comparisons and where they were drafted but I think Green has way more upside. I’m seeing him more as a smaller Aaron Gordon with the playmaking, defensive versatility and unfortunately, for now, the uncertain shooting.
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05-06-2021, 04:35 AM
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#55
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas41
In the future
Not right now he's still not a finished product.
I think he will continue to get better offensively
I made the Middleton comparisons because I believe that is Bey's floor.
Middleton developed his game from being just a spot up shooter in his early years. I see similar strides by Bey down the road......
Again I like Green i mentioned this on draft night I live in Arizona and watched him often before he came to Dallas.
My expectations of him dating all the way back to draft night was that he would develop into a terrific wing defender and his best offense would be on the move more of cutter/slasher type not someone who will score in high teens doing his career.
Where as I think Bey will develope into a dependable 20+ PPG scorer
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His FLOOR is a multi time all-star and #2 on a title contender?!?!
I do not see that at all. I don't think I'd say that about anyone not in the top 5 in any given NBA draft.
Last edited by Bryan_Wilson; 05-06-2021 at 04:36 AM.
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05-06-2021, 04:16 PM
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#56
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 5,273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson
His FLOOR is a multi time all-star and #2 on a title contender?!?!
I do not see that at all. I don't think I'd say that about anyone not in the top 5 in any given NBA draft.
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Middleton was a 2nd round pick
It's not out of the realm of possibility for Bey to develope into an All-Star
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05-06-2021, 04:40 PM
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#57
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 380
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas41
It's not out of the realm of possibility for Bey to develope into an All-Star
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I don't think people usually use the term 'floor' to mean "not out of the realm of possibility".
__________________
“you had nothing to say about it and yet made the nothing up into words.”
― C.S. Lewis, Perelandra
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05-06-2021, 05:05 PM
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#58
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas41
Middleton was a 2nd round pick
It's not out of the realm of possibility for Bey to develope into an All-Star
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Not sure what Middleton's draft position has to do with you saying Saddiq's floor is Middleton. Saying his floor is Middleton means at minimum he's going to be a multi time all star and legitimate #2 scoring option on a contender. That barring injury at his worst if he doesn't improve the way that he could if he reached his ceiling he would be Middleton. What is his ceiling then? Top 5 all time? Perennial all-nba?
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05-06-2021, 05:23 PM
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#59
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 5,273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson
Not sure what Middleton's draft position has to do with you saying Saddiq's floor is Middleton. Saying his floor is Middleton means at minimum he's going to be a multi time all star and legitimate #2 scoring option on a contender. That barring injury at his worst if he doesn't improve the way that he could if he reached his ceiling he would be Middleton. What is his ceiling then? Top 5 all time? Perennial all-nba?
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I responded with his draft position because of your response to guys outside the top 5 of a draft.
My opinion is Bey will turn into a all-star player eventually (doesn't mean he'll make the All star team every year)
I think he can be as equal to Middleton in terms of production down the road.
Now to set the record straight that is my OPINION
We aren't all going to have the same opinion regarding players
But that's my opinion I believe Bey will turn into a terrific two way player capable of vaulting into a 2nd or 3rd scoring option even on a good team.
I don't think Green offensively will be that type of player but again that is my opinion
Last edited by Dallas41; 05-06-2021 at 05:24 PM.
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05-06-2021, 06:39 PM
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#60
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Guru
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Brasil
Posts: 15,401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Some Guy
I don't think people usually use the term 'floor' to mean "not out of the realm of possibility".
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This lol.
Not even his ceiling is Middleton because of his ball handling etc
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05-06-2021, 06:41 PM
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#61
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 5,273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sefant77
This lol.
Not even his ceiling is Middleton because of his ball handling etc
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well that's why we are entitled to our own opinion
Middleton wasn't putting the ball on the floor early in his career btw
He developed it over time
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05-06-2021, 08:28 PM
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#62
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Guru
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Brasil
Posts: 15,401
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Using a term in the wrong way has nothing to do with "own opinion"
And its actually fucking easy:
Floor: worst case
Ceiling: best case
And no, Beys worst case scenario isnt Middleton
Last edited by sefant77; 05-06-2021 at 08:29 PM.
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05-06-2021, 11:47 PM
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#63
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 5,273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sefant77
Using a term in the wrong way has nothing to do with "own opinion"
And its actually fucking easy:
Floor: worst case
Ceiling: best case
And no, Beys worst case scenario isnt Middleton
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but again isn't that your opinion?
why i'm not allowed to have my own opinion....
seems like you get upset over the smallest of things just because someone feels a certain way about another player
I get it he's not on the Mavs and we are all pulling for Green but man to try and go out your way and bring down Bey seems kind of silly
we can agree to disagree no sense in trying to convince each other one way or the other time will tell
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05-07-2021, 06:24 AM
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#64
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Enemy territory (SA)
Posts: 3,305
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I personally don’t see the Middleton comparison. To me Bey looks like a supercharged Maxi Kleber, which is a great piece on any team. Green, IMO, is by far the superior perimeter defender. He has Ben Simmons-level defensive potential. Green is also 1.5 years younger than Bey... he will spend that time developing with the Mavs instead of college. We should see significant gains from him next season. All in all, time will tell, but even with my homer glasses off I think I take Green over Bey today.
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Last edited by tap2390; 05-07-2021 at 06:24 AM.
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05-07-2021, 05:07 PM
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#65
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Golden Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas41
but again isn't that your opinion?
why i'm not allowed to have my own opinion....
seems like you get upset over the smallest of things just because someone feels a certain way about another player
I get it he's not on the Mavs and we are all pulling for Green but man to try and go out your way and bring down Bey seems kind of silly
we can agree to disagree no sense in trying to convince each other one way or the other time will tell
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i think folks are just a bit in disbelief at your assertion that Saddiq Bey's absolute worst case scenario is Middleton. i happen to think he is a nice player who will have a long NBA career, but that's a very strong statement for a rookie player.
I'm curious then - if that's his worst case scenario (18-20 ppg, 2 all star appearances) what do you see as his absolute best case scenario?
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05-07-2021, 05:22 PM
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#66
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: uranus
Posts: 13,643
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Ill take a stab a this..
Saddiq Bey:
Best case: Tobias Harris
Worst case: Ryan Anderson
__________________
you just proofed how stupid you are - CRAZYBOY
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05-08-2021, 02:27 AM
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#67
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMC0007
Ill take a stab a this..
Saddiq Bey:
Best case: Tobias Harris
Worst case: Ryan Anderson
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��
Ryan Anderson had some nice seasons— think he got paid after that career year and then never recaptured the magic. Can’t remember if he got hurt or just lost a step.
Last edited by mac222b; 05-08-2021 at 02:35 AM.
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10-01-2022, 03:19 PM
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#68
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Guru
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 13,205
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Josh Green is looking like a rotation player finally
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