View Poll Results: What will the result of the series be?
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Mavs in 4
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0% |
Mavs in 5
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1 |
5.56% |
Mavs in 6
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7 |
38.89% |
Mavs in 7
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6 |
33.33% |
Jazz in 7
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1 |
5.56% |
Jazz in 6
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1 |
5.56% |
Jazz in 5
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0% |
Jazz in 4
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2 |
11.11% |
04-27-2022, 08:17 AM
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#161
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Enemy territory (SA)
Posts: 3,305
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Jesus... just now reading that article.
So we tried to trade JB for Tyrese Haliburton in the 2020 draft.
We didn't extend JB in the offseason at a much lower price.
Didn't extend him midseason at a much lower price.
Cuban made his bed and now has to lay in it. Pay the man or sell the team to someone who will.
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04-27-2022, 08:47 AM
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#162
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Guru
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 13,206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tap2390
Jesus... just now reading that article.
So we tried to trade JB for Tyrese Haliburton in the 2020 draft.
We didn't extend JB in the offseason at a much lower price.
Didn't extend him midseason at a much lower price.
Cuban made his bed and now has to lay in it. Pay the man or sell the team to someone who will.
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I understand about the Haliburton offer - Haliburton is a special player. I understand why we didn't extend during the offseason - JB had a bad series against the Clippers and our GM was brand new.
But the midseason extension is a joke. We would have had to make him the same offer as DFS (by league rules). There is no way that JB would have accepted that offer so I understand why the team didn't make him an insulting offer like that.
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04-27-2022, 08:56 AM
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#163
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,233
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I don't really care about giving JB a low ball offer anyway. Pay the man what he is worth. This isn't hard.
__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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04-27-2022, 09:33 AM
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#164
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,549
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Yeah, no way JB would’ve taken the mid season extension. But there were other screw-ups along the way, for certain. Should’ve locked him up after the Clippers. Buy low. They were also trying to sell low (Brunson and pick #18 most likely) for Halliburton who, great as he is, that’s an overpay.
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04-27-2022, 09:53 AM
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#165
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: state of eternal optimism
Posts: 2,854
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It's really just up to Cuban right now. Mavs are the only team that can offer the fifth year, so they are in the driver's seat. We will see if Mark is a cheapskate or someone committed to building a championship team. This is actually a pretty interesting test to see his true colors. There seems to be no advantage from a salary cap point of view to not match any offer given to JB and add the fifth year. So, put up or shut up Mark. All that is on the line is your money.
__________________
"Truth is incontrovertible. Panic may resent it. Ignorance may deride it. Malice may distort it. But there it is." - Winston Churchill
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04-27-2022, 10:10 AM
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#166
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purplefrog
It's really just up to Cuban right now. Mavs are the only team that can offer the fifth year, so they are in the driver's seat. We will see if Mark is a cheapskate or someone committed to building a championship team. This is actually a pretty interesting test to see his true colors. There seems to be no advantage from a salary cap point of view to not match any offer given to JB and add the fifth year. So, put up or shut up Mark. All that is on the line is your money.
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He has to. Assuming Jalen wants to be here. It would be a REALLY bad look for one of Luka’s best buds and our 2nd best player to walk for nothing. Cuban may be an idiot but he’s not a fool. If Jalen walks for nothing it’s step one to Luka being out the door.
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04-27-2022, 10:38 AM
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#167
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 42,997
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Cuban may be that stupid, but Nico isn't.
Mavs rejecting Brunson's extension is a bad look for sure.
I think the talk about rejecting SnTs is all talk meant to increase his return.
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04-27-2022, 10:38 AM
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#168
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Diamond Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,815
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Since Cuban has repeatedly admitted letting Nash walk was a mistake I’d hope it wouldn’t happen him with JB. I’d hope JB would at least allow Cuban to match any offer he gets in FA before signing anything.
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04-27-2022, 10:42 AM
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#169
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BPo001
Since Cuban has repeatedly admitted letting Nash walk was a mistake I’d hope it wouldn’t happen him with JB. I’d hope JB would at least allow Cuban to match any offer he gets in FA before signing anything.
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Cuban also said he wouldn't make the mistake of breaking up Luka and KP like he did Dirk and Nash. What a person says today doesn't apply to tomorrow. Not in the NBA at least.
__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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04-27-2022, 10:48 AM
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#170
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 42,997
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I think the odds of JB not returning are higher than people think.
Mavs are in the tax with or without JB. Re-signing Brunson to 20-25 would put us in absolute cap hell and guarantee a repeat tax and severe league punishments.
I'd like to think Cuban would pay, but you never know. If we somehow lose in the first round again, then the odds are much lower.
That's why I think our draft pick is so important. Having cheap players on rookie contracts really helps. We may trade that pick for some cap relief, though. Dumping THJ/Bertans would definitely help.
Last edited by EricaLubarsky; 04-27-2022 at 11:15 AM.
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04-27-2022, 11:20 AM
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#171
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Golden Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
Cuban also said he wouldn't make the mistake of breaking up Luka and KP like he did Dirk and Nash. What a person says today doesn't apply to tomorrow. Not in the NBA at least.
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in this case props to him or whoever pulled the trigger for moving on from what was a mistake.
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04-27-2022, 11:42 AM
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#172
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky
I think the odds of JB not returning are higher than people think.
Mavs are in the tax with or without JB. Re-signing Brunson to 20-25 would put us in absolute cap hell and guarantee a repeat tax and severe league punishments.
I'd like to think Cuban would pay, but you never know. If we somehow lose in the first round again, then the odds are much lower.
That's why I think our draft pick is so important. Having cheap players on rookie contracts really helps. We may trade that pick for some cap relief, though. Dumping THJ/Bertans would definitely help.
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I think we will keep JB and dump THJ or Bertans with our pick as you said. Maybe can offload Sterling Brown or Burke saves a little too? I think Cuban just needs to pay up and then we have a couple contracts coming off Summer of ‘23 right? Maxi, Powell, Burke and Brown?
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04-27-2022, 11:54 AM
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#173
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MFFL
I understand about the Haliburton offer - Haliburton is a special player. I understand why we didn't extend during the offseason - JB had a bad series against the Clippers and our GM was brand new.
But the midseason extension is a joke. We would have had to make him the same offer as DFS (by league rules). There is no way that JB would have accepted that offer so I understand why the team didn't make him an insulting offer like that.
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I got a different impression from Brunson's dad in the article. Sounds like they may have been open to signing the extension mid-season and not insulted at all?
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"I told him once the season is started, that's it," Rick Brunson says. "I told the Mavericks, 'Once the season is started, there's no contract talk,' and I went back against my word. In January, I thought he did enough where he deserved [the extension]. I said, 'Hey, take the money, man.' He wants security. He wants to live here. And they declined.
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04-27-2022, 12:08 PM
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#174
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Guru
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 11,790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saclare
I got a different impression from Brunson's dad in the article. Sounds like they may have been open to signing the extension mid-season and not insulted at all?
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"I told him once the season is started, that's it," Rick Brunson says. "I told the Mavericks, 'Once the season is started, there's no contract talk,' and I went back against my word. In January, I thought he did enough where he deserved [the extension]. I said, 'Hey, take the money, man.' He wants security. He wants to live here. And they declined.
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Ouch...Well now they better cough up, cause he will be getting 22-25mil
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04-27-2022, 12:15 PM
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#175
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: state of eternal optimism
Posts: 2,854
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky
I think the odds of JB not returning are higher than people think.
Mavs are in the tax with or without JB. Re-signing Brunson to 20-25 would put us in absolute cap hell and guarantee a repeat tax and severe league punishments.
I'd like to think Cuban would pay, but you never know. If we somehow lose in the first round again, then the odds are much lower.
That's why I think our draft pick is so important. Having cheap players on rookie contracts really helps. We may trade that pick for some cap relief, though. Dumping THJ/Bertans would definitely help.
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I am by no means a salary cap guru or even have a working knowledge of how the convoluted system works, but it seems to me that Powell + Kleber = $20M that is only committed for 2022-2023. Boban + Sterling Brown + Frank = another $6-7M that goes off the books in that same timeframe. So, wouldn't the extreme tax only be for one year?
__________________
"Truth is incontrovertible. Panic may resent it. Ignorance may deride it. Malice may distort it. But there it is." - Winston Churchill
Last edited by purplefrog; 04-27-2022 at 12:15 PM.
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04-27-2022, 12:17 PM
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#176
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: state of eternal optimism
Posts: 2,854
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Besides, GSW and Brooklyn are both currently $170M+ in team salary (Mavs would be in similar territory next season if they pay JB $20M next year and then give him salary increases for each additional year for a total of five years). Seems to me this can be managed if the owner is willing.
__________________
"Truth is incontrovertible. Panic may resent it. Ignorance may deride it. Malice may distort it. But there it is." - Winston Churchill
Last edited by purplefrog; 04-27-2022 at 12:19 PM.
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04-27-2022, 12:20 PM
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#177
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,233
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Brunson is averaging 28 ppg in the playoffs. If you don't pony up for that, then what will you pay for is the better question?
You dump THJ. Problem solved.
__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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04-27-2022, 12:32 PM
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#178
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 42,997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
Brunson is averaging 28 ppg in the playoffs. If you don't pony up for that, then what will you pay for is the better question?
You dump THJ. Problem solved.
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29pts, 5reb, 5ast
There are a lot of talented people. Dinwiddie is talented. Trae Young is talented, but talent doesn't mean you're a performer.
Brunson is a performer. Brunson steps it up when the pressure is at its highest.
Last edited by EricaLubarsky; 04-27-2022 at 12:39 PM.
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04-27-2022, 12:40 PM
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#179
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky
29pts, 5reb, 5ast
There are a lot of talented people. Dinwiddie is talented. Trae Young is talented, but talent doesn't mean you're a performer.
Brunson is a performer. Performers are rare and Brunson steps it up when the pressure is at its highest.
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And he is consistent. THAT is the separation. Trae and Dinwiddie are very inconsistent. They are more talented, without a doubt.
Can't make up for that large IQ gap though.
__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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04-27-2022, 03:41 PM
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#180
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Frisco, TX
Posts: 182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
Brunson is averaging 28 ppg in the playoffs. If you don't pony up for that, then what will you pay for is the better question?
You dump THJ. Problem solved.
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Having THJ on this roster next season and no JB would yield a terrible offseason. Because one of them is very productive and reliable and the other is not.
__________________
There's more to fear in overcoming internal inadequacies and laziness than there is in our outside competition.
Last edited by washedklean77; 04-27-2022 at 03:41 PM.
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04-27-2022, 06:01 PM
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#181
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,233
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Man, fricken' twitter acts like we've already won game 6. Entire platform is a major jinx.
It's gonna be a really tough game to win. Mark my words on that.
__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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04-27-2022, 07:35 PM
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#182
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: uranus
Posts: 13,643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
Man, fricken' twitter acts like we've already won game 6. Entire platform is a major jinx.
It's gonna be a really tough game to win. Mark my words on that.
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Twitter is a fn cesspool. I can't find legit users aside from Iztok and a cpl writers.
__________________
you just proofed how stupid you are - CRAZYBOY
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04-27-2022, 10:03 PM
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#183
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 42,997
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04-27-2022, 11:55 PM
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#184
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saclare
I got a different impression from Brunson's dad in the article. Sounds like they may have been open to signing the extension mid-season and not insulted at all?
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"I told him once the season is started, that's it," Rick Brunson says. "I told the Mavericks, 'Once the season is started, there's no contract talk,' and I went back against my word. In January, I thought he did enough where he deserved [the extension]. I said, 'Hey, take the money, man.' He wants security. He wants to live here. And they declined.
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I’m not sure I buy this. Weird Dad vibes from this one. Speaking on behalf of his grown son during the playoffs is strange and it does NOT seem like a Jalen approved message. Unless this is from earlier, not sure when the article is from.
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04-27-2022, 11:56 PM
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#185
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,549
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If it’s true though they Jalen wanted to sign an extension and the Mavs said no? It’s beyond incomprehensible. That’s why I sort of don’t believe it.
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04-28-2022, 01:38 PM
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#186
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mac222b
If it’s true though they Jalen wanted to sign an extension and the Mavs said no? It’s beyond incomprehensible. That’s why I sort of don’t believe it.
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Right, and I agree. It's in the ESPN article from MacMahon.
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04-28-2022, 02:45 PM
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#187
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Guru
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 13,206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mac222b
If it’s true though they Jalen wanted to sign an extension and the Mavs said no? It’s beyond incomprehensible. That’s why I sort of don’t believe it.
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Actually now that I think about it, the rumor might be true.
You can't trade players who have recently signed a contract and the trade deadline was February. I can see the Mavs declining to offer an extension until after the trade deadline just because we were hoping to be active. DFS didn't sign his until after the trade deadline.
If the Mavs lost out on Lillard or Beal because they couldn't trade Brunson or DFS then that would have been a disaster. Not signing them to an extension AT WORST cost the Mavs a little bit extra money (which hopefully Cuban can afford)
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04-28-2022, 03:00 PM
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#188
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MFFL
Actually now that I think about it, the rumor might be true.
You can't trade players who have recently signed a contract and the trade deadline was February. I can see the Mavs declining to offer an extension until after the trade deadline just because we were hoping to be active. DFS didn't sign his until after the trade deadline.
If the Mavs lost out on Lillard or Beal because they couldn't trade Brunson or DFS then that would have been a disaster. Not signing them to an extension AT WORST cost the Mavs a little bit extra money (which hopefully Cuban can afford)
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Yeah but we are talking about possibly paying him almost DOUBLE. Even if Cuban can afford it, it’s just bad business. Having guys on great contracts is super valuable. Not to mention the extra 10-12m per year if you include the tax bill, is way more.
Last edited by mac222b; 04-28-2022 at 03:01 PM.
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04-28-2022, 03:51 PM
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#189
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New Mexico Mountains
Posts: 2,398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mac222b
Yeah but we are talking about possibly paying him almost DOUBLE. Even if Cuban can afford it, it’s just bad business. Having guys on great contracts is super valuable. Not to mention the extra 10-12m per year if you include the tax bill, is way more.
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Seriously? Is there anyone on this board who predicted what JB has done in the playoffs?
Coming up on the trade deadline, he had barely cemented himself in the role of starter. At that point, I doubt any team would have offered him $20 million, unless they were desperate, like the Knicks. Had Luka not gone down, Brunson would have probably averaged 20 points a game at best, but would never have had the opportunity to lead and score like he did.
You can say fate kicked Cuban in the teeth again, if you like. But at the time they were talking about $55 million, no one n the league was thinking he'd ever be worth twice that.
But that is what he's worth now, and I want the Mavs to pay him. If other teams who want to contend have $170 million dollar payrolls, the Mavs should too. Otherwise, we aren't serious about winning.
__________________
"He got dimes." Harrison Barnes on Luca Doncic during his 1st NBA training camp.
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04-28-2022, 04:25 PM
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#190
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Guru
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 13,206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mac222b
Yeah but we are talking about possibly paying him almost DOUBLE. Even if Cuban can afford it, it’s just bad business. Having guys on great contracts is super valuable. Not to mention the extra 10-12m per year if you include the tax bill, is way more.
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20-20 vision in hindsight is great.
But knowing the Mavs were ready to move KP then anything was possible at the trade deadline. Brunson could have easily been moved - in fact, that might be WHY he wanted to sign the contract in Jan, so he would be guaranteed to not be traded
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04-28-2022, 04:27 PM
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#191
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: state of eternal optimism
Posts: 2,854
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Man
Seriously? Is there anyone on this board who predicted what JB has done in the playoffs?
Coming up on the trade deadline, he had barely cemented himself in the role of starter. At that point, I doubt any team would have offered him $20 million, unless they were desperate, like the Knicks. Had Luka not gone down, Brunson would have probably averaged 20 points a game at best, but would never have had the opportunity to lead and score like he did.
You can say fate kicked Cuban in the teeth again, if you like. But at the time they were talking about $55 million, no one n the league was thinking he'd ever be worth twice that.
But that is what he's worth now, and I want the Mavs to pay him. If other teams who want to contend have $170 million dollar payrolls, the Mavs should too. Otherwise, we aren't serious about winning.
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I couldn't agree more.
__________________
"Truth is incontrovertible. Panic may resent it. Ignorance may deride it. Malice may distort it. But there it is." - Winston Churchill
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04-28-2022, 04:39 PM
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#192
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: state of eternal optimism
Posts: 2,854
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JB's improved play has gone well beyond all expectations. It is impressive that he competes at such a high level, regardless if he is paired with Luka or SD. I think he has the "it" factor. He has intangible qualities that make him and his teams winners. It's not complicated, just pay the man.
__________________
"Truth is incontrovertible. Panic may resent it. Ignorance may deride it. Malice may distort it. But there it is." - Winston Churchill
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04-28-2022, 06:03 PM
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#193
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Man
Seriously? Is there anyone on this board who predicted what JB has done in the playoffs?
Coming up on the trade deadline, he had barely cemented himself in the role of starter. At that point, I doubt any team would have offered him $20 million, unless they were desperate, like the Knicks.
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By the trade deadline, it was widely speculated that 20 mil was the starting rate for JB. Knicks and Pistons were both expected to offer at least that much.
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04-28-2022, 07:30 PM
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#194
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: uranus
Posts: 13,643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshJive
By the trade deadline, it was widely speculated that 20 mil was the starting rate for JB. Knicks and Pistons were both expected to offer at least that much.
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I don't recall the starting rate being that much for JB at TD.
__________________
you just proofed how stupid you are - CRAZYBOY
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04-28-2022, 08:54 PM
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#195
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMC0007
I don't recall the starting rate being that much for JB at TD.
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I might be mixing up starting with what it’s going to take, but to say that no one thought there would be teams willing to pay him that much is just false.
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04-28-2022, 10:02 PM
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#196
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: uranus
Posts: 13,643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshJive
I might be mixing up starting with what it’s going to take, but to say that no one thought there would be teams willing to pay him that much is just false.
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I though 20m would have been absolutemax at TD, he's just been climbing ever since....and still is.
__________________
you just proofed how stupid you are - CRAZYBOY
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04-28-2022, 11:32 PM
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#197
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 42,997
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Congratulations to our winners for round 1:
blessednegr0, BPo001, dirt_dobber, DunkYardDaze, EricaLubarsky, kg_veteran, Scoobay
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04-29-2022, 12:12 AM
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#198
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,233
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Who were the two that said Jazz in 4? Sheesh.
__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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04-29-2022, 01:56 AM
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#199
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 5,273
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I said DFS would be the Defensive player of this series
He avg over 40 MPG and Mitchell shot 39% from the FG and 21% from 3-PT range
And dude shot 40% from three himself knocking down clutch 3's throughout series
Doe Doe earned that new contract
Last edited by Dallas41; 04-29-2022 at 01:58 AM.
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04-29-2022, 03:50 AM
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#200
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Guru
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Denton, TX
Posts: 10,486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Man
Seriously? Is there anyone on this board who predicted what JB has done in the playoffs?
Coming up on the trade deadline, he had barely cemented himself in the role of starter. At that point, I doubt any team would have offered him $20 million, unless they were desperate, like the Knicks. Had Luka not gone down, Brunson would have probably averaged 20 points a game at best, but would never have had the opportunity to lead and score like he did.
You can say fate kicked Cuban in the teeth again, if you like. But at the time they were talking about $55 million, no one n the league was thinking he'd ever be worth twice that.
But that is what he's worth now, and I want the Mavs to pay him. If other teams who want to contend have $170 million dollar payrolls, the Mavs should too. Otherwise, we aren't serious about winning.
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Thank you. There's a hell of a lot of revisionist history going on here. Until very recently, Brunson was little more than a sparkplug off the bench. He was JJ Barea 2.0. Nobody saw this coming, and anyone who says otherwise is lying through their teeth. As I alluded to earlier, last year people on this board were legit pissed that the Mavs didn't use him as trade fodder for Oladipo. OLADIPO FFS.
The dude has taken a leap that was completely unforeseeable. I'm thrilled about it. And yes, the Mavs just need to pay him. You can always move a bad contract if you need to, but losing one of your best players and getting nothing in return? That's always a terrible move.
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