06-28-2022, 10:23 PM
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#441
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 217
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Also knicks are punks in this. Don?t you usually do a sign and trade these cases with the other team. Like they purposely want to screw us. Don?t make deals with them in future. We gave up like 2 first round picks for kp to them in they trade.
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06-28-2022, 10:25 PM
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#442
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Guru
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest
I mean are we really considering Tim Hardaway Jr as "blowing it up"?
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Losing THJ? No. Adding Westbrook? Yes. The dude is fucking cancer.
I consider that basically punting an entire season- sacrificing an entire year of Luka's career in the (ridiculous) hope that we can attract free agents in the future- because you know, the Mavs have such a great track record attracting free agents.
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06-28-2022, 10:28 PM
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#443
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest
So is it the Mavs CAN'T match it or they won't match it?
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A fair question, but at this point, would you really want Brunson back at say, 5/150 when he doesn't really want to play here? And he'll want to control his destiny by going there instead of the us inevitably trying to move him later on to a team of our choosing.
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06-28-2022, 10:32 PM
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#444
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 8,839
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson
Losing THJ? No. Adding Westbrook? Yes. The dude is fucking cancer.
I consider that basically punting an entire season- sacrificing an entire year of Luka's career in the (ridiculous) hope that we can attract free agents in the future- because you know, the Mavs have such a great track record attracting free agents.
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Well I mean we can't blame Nico and co. for this teams past sins because they weren't here for it. So we really don't know that this group can't bring in free agents.
But let's not kid ourselves here. Free agents go where the money is and where the relationship is. We've failed in the past because Dirk was our superstar and he wasn't in the "in" with the best players in the league. And Luka may be in the same boat but the Nico hiring was suppose to even things out a bit in regards to player relationship.
I'm not a big Westbrook fan myself...but if you're telling me for Powell and Hardway I could get Westbrook? I'd do it. But its more about trusting in Kidd than it is Westbrook. In regards to our talk earlier about Dragic...I think Westbrook actually offers some things in rebounding and defense and the ability to attack the paint that we don't have. He's getting the blame for the Lakers lack of success last year but it really wasn't his fault. He keeps getting in these piss poor situations with teams and now he has the reputation of a cancer.....
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06-28-2022, 10:34 PM
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#445
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 8,839
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
A fair question, but at this point, would you really want Brunson back at say, 5/150 when he doesn't really want to play here? And he'll want to control his destiny by going there instead of the us inevitably trying to move him later on to a team of our choosing.
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Oh I wouldn't but at this point its about getting compensation for him.
And I'm so out of touch with the current rules of the CBA/salary cap....so I could be off base here but if the Knicks want him this bad then why can't the Mavs match him and make the Knicks trade for him? They have draft picks why can't we take some of that? Or hell if its Quickly or someone.....
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06-28-2022, 10:37 PM
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#446
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 217
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Talk me off ledge. Brunson gone with nothing in return. Dragic for vet minimum and The Who for the 6 mil? Still think need center over swing guard.
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06-28-2022, 10:38 PM
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#447
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Guru
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Denton, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest
Well I mean we can't blame Nico and co. for this teams past sins because they weren't here for it. So we really don't know that this group can't bring in free agents.
But let's not kid ourselves here. Free agents go where the money is and where the relationship is. We've failed in the past because Dirk was our superstar and he wasn't in the "in" with the best players in the league. And Luka may be in the same boat but the Nico hiring was suppose to even things out a bit in regards to player relationship.
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I don't think it's any of those things. I think it's just the simple fact that there are three cities in all of America that NBA players actually want to go do, and Dallas isn't one of them. New York, LA, and Miami. I suppose you could add San Francisco/bay area to that list now because the Warriors are the glamor team of the current era. But that's it. No owner, GM, coach, or star player will ever change that.
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I'm not a big Westbrook fan myself...but if you're telling me for Powell and Hardway I could get Westbrook? I'd do it. But its more about trusting in Kidd than it is Westbrook. In regards to our talk earlier about Dragic...I think Westbrook actually offers some things in rebounding and defense and the ability to attack the paint that we don't have. He's getting the blame for the Lakers lack of success last year but it really wasn't his fault. He keeps getting in these piss poor situations with teams and now he has the reputation of a cancer.....
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I dunno, I'll admit that I didn't watch that much of the Lakers last year, but I've watched most of his career, and the guy just doesn't get it. I'd rather take my chances with Dragic and whatever else we can find on the scrap heap.
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06-28-2022, 10:44 PM
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#448
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Diamond Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest
Oh I wouldn't but at this point its about getting compensation for him.
And I'm so out of touch with the current rules of the CBA/salary cap....so I could be off base here but if the Knicks want him this bad then why can't the Mavs match him and make the Knicks trade for him? They have draft picks why can't we take some of that? Or hell if its Quickly or someone.....
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Brunson is unrestricted because of the rookie contract given out by Donnie.
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06-28-2022, 10:44 PM
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#449
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 8,839
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson
I don't think it's any of those things. I think it's just the simple fact that there are three cities in all of America that NBA players actually want to go do, and Dallas isn't one of them. New York, LA, and Miami. I suppose you could add San Francisco/bay area to that list now because the Warriors are the glamor team of the current era. But that's it. No owner, GM, coach, or star player will ever change that.
I dunno, I'll admit that I didn't watch that much of the Lakers last year, but I've watched most of his career, and the guy just doesn't get it. I'd rather take my chances with Dragic and whatever else we can find on the scrap heap.
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Who's fighting to go to New York? When's the last time they snagged a big time free agent? Amare Stoudmire? Or are we going to call Julius Randle that? I don't buy the city thing because nobody can convince me that a player wouldn't want to play in Dallas with Cuban as a owner and the lack of state tax.
Westbrook is a flawed player. No doubt. Hell he would be far from the type guy I'd want because he's at his best with the ball in his hands and I'm not taking the ball out of Luka's hands for him. BUT, the guy can still rebound and defense. Solid passer as well. If he could buy in to being a role player and coming off the bench as a 6th man I'd be all for him coming here. I don't think that's the case sadly. But if they were to up and trade for him I wouldn't be against it for the right deal.
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06-28-2022, 10:46 PM
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#450
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 8,839
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BPo001
Brunson is unrestricted because of the rookie contract given out by Donnie.
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Ok so if the Mavs offered the 5th year to Brunson it wouldn't matter and he could still sign with the Knicks? I guess maybe I was under the impression he was a restricted free agent....
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06-28-2022, 10:48 PM
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#451
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest
Ok so if the Mavs offered the 5th year to Brunson it wouldn't matter and he could still sign with the Knicks? I guess maybe I was under the impression he was a restricted free agent....
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Mavs messed up his contract some how. Another dumb move
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06-28-2022, 10:51 PM
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#452
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 8,839
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amarelooms
Mavs messed up his contract some how. Another dumb move
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Ughh.....smh...unbelievable man....
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06-28-2022, 10:59 PM
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#453
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Guru
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest
Who's fighting to go to New York? When's the last time they snagged a big time free agent? Amare Stoudmire? Or are we going to call Julius Randle that?
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I mean, we're having this conversation because our 2nd best player is going to New York. And it's only because of Dolan's perpetual incompetence that the Knicks aren't immensely more successful. They damn near landed all three of Lebron, Wade, and Bosh in 2010, but supposedly Dolan blew the meeting. Trust me, if Dolan ever sold the team, they would immediately become THE favored destination for free agents, just like the Clippers did the moment Sterling was forced to sell.
And remember, New York has two teams. The Nets in their short time since moving to Brooklyn have a pretty successful track record attracting free agents.
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I don't buy the city thing because nobody can convince me that a player wouldn't want to play in Dallas with Cuban as a owner and the lack of state tax.
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Are we sure Cuban isn't more of a deterrent than an attraction at this point?
And you don't buy the city thing? Do you really not notice the Lakers, Clippers, Nets, and Heat getting every free agent, or every disgruntled star forcing a trade there?
I hope you're right and I'm wrong. I desperately do. But I won't believe Dallas is an attractive free agent destination until I see us make even ONE noteworthy signing. We have been passed over again and again and again, and I don't think it'd because Dirk wasn't one of the "in" players.
Last edited by Thespiralgoeson; 06-28-2022 at 11:04 PM.
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06-28-2022, 11:00 PM
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#454
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Diamond Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,675
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest
Ok so if the Mavs offered the 5th year to Brunson it wouldn't matter and he could still sign with the Knicks? I guess maybe I was under the impression he was a restricted free agent....
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Yes, Brunson can sign with any team. We can offer a 5th year that no other team can, but he can still sign anywhere for 4 years.
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06-28-2022, 11:10 PM
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#455
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson
I mean, we're having this conversation because our 2nd best player is going to New York. And it's only because of Dolan's perpetual incompetence that the Knicks aren't immensely more successful. They damn near landed all three of Lebron, Wade, and Bosh in 2010, but supposedly Dolan blew the meeting. Trust me, if Dolan ever sold the team, they would immediately become THE favored destination for free agents, just like the Clippers did the moment Sterling was forced to sell.
And remember, New York has two teams. The Nets in their short time since moving to Brooklyn have a pretty successful track record attracting free agents.
Are we sure Cuban isn't more of a deterrent than an attraction at this point?
And you don't buy the city thing? Do you really not notice the Lakers, Clippers, Nets, and Heat getting every free agent, or every disgruntled star forcing a trade there?
I hope you're right and I'm wrong. I desperately do. But I won't believe Dallas is an attractive free agent destination until I see us make even ONE noteworthy signing. We have been passed over again and again and again, and I don't think it'd because Dirk wasn't one of the "in" players.
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And the FO still has a lot of work to do. Like, Nico was gm when they decided THJ was worth 80 million. And we still didn't offer him more than NO. Too bad he didn't take their money. Might be a different situation with Brunson if we didn't have that money on the books. Who knows.
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06-28-2022, 11:17 PM
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#456
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Guru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
And the FO still has a lot of work to do. Like, Nico was gm when they decided THJ was worth 80 million. And we still didn't offer him more than NO. Too bad he didn't take their money. Might be a different situation with Brunson if we didn't have that money on the books. Who knows.
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In fairness to Nico, I was in favor of that signing for all the exact same reasons I wanted us to overpay to keep Brunson- because THJ had played well and it's better to overpay for a good player and than lose him for nothing.
I'm glad we played so well without him this season. But I don't think anyone could have predicted the turnaround we had after the KP trade.
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06-28-2022, 11:33 PM
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#457
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 217
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Also need Powell traded along with whoever and even include a pick to get solid piece back. Powell needs to go. Use his expiring contract.
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06-28-2022, 11:40 PM
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#458
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Guru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amarelooms
Also need Powell traded along with whoever and even include a pick to get solid piece back. Powell needs to go. Use his expiring contract.
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I don't want to give up any more picks unless we're getting something really good. We've given up, what, four picks in five years? Each one of those deals made sense in a vacuum, even the KP trade. But going years and years getting nothing out of the draft has a cumulative effect. We need to get quality young players on those rookie contracts.
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06-29-2022, 12:02 AM
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#459
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Budapest, Hungary
Posts: 2,209
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I'm okay with JB leaving for now. The truth is that this would have been an extremely risky contract. Now, if he totally blows up in New York and becomes an All-Star, obviously that's a different scenario, but for now, let's entertain the possibility that we might be dodging a bullet here, because there is a relatively good chance that this is indeed what we are doing.
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06-29-2022, 12:07 AM
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#460
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Guru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick
I'm okay with JB leaving for now. The truth is that this would have been an extremely risky contract. Now, if he totally blows up in New York and becomes an All-Star, obviously that's a different scenario, but for now, let's entertain the possibility that we might be dodging a bullet here, because there is a relatively good chance that this is indeed what we are doing.
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I'm trying to see the bright side, but I just don't see it. What exactly was the risk? The Mavs are going to be way over the cap for the forseeable future with or without him, so it's not like we can chase free agents. The only real downside to paying him a boatload is that he would have been hard to trade. And honestly, who cares? Just another guy that you're stuck with for a couple of years, who then becomes extremely valuable in the final year of his deal.
Other than him just being harder to trade, what is the risk in overpaying him? I'm honestly thinking Cuban just doesn't want to go deeper into the luxury tax. I'm hoping that's not the case, but that's what it seems like.
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06-29-2022, 12:08 AM
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#461
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Guru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amarelooms
Rental one year. His contract up. We likely not good enough this coming year. Need be able shed salary so can get free agents.
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The short term result would be so horrid you?re risking Luka asking out. Westbrook is that bad.
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06-29-2022, 12:12 AM
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#462
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melonhead
The short term result would be so horrid you?re risking Luka asking out. Westbrook is that bad.
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Exactly. And for what? The chance to chase more free agents? No thank you. I'll take Dragic and whatever else Nico can scrape together.
Meanwhile, let's all cross our fingers and hope that Hardy actually turns out to be a quality NBA shooting guard. And two a lesser extent, lets hope that Josh Green can become an NBA player at all.
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06-29-2022, 12:17 AM
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#463
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Guru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson
I'm trying to see the bright side, but I just don't see it. What exactly was the risk? The Mavs are going to be way over the cap for the forseeable future with or without him, so it's not like we can chase free agents. The only real downside to paying him a boatload is that he would have been hard to trade. And honestly, who cares? Just another guy that you're stuck with for a couple of years, who then becomes extremely valuable in the final year of his deal.
Other than him just being harder to trade, what is the risk in overpaying him? I'm honestly thinking Cuban just doesn't want to go deeper into the luxury tax. I'm hoping that's not the case, but that's what it seems like.
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Brunson at 27 would def not be hard to trade especially with the cap going up. That would be like top 50/60 in contract money. There?s literally zero risk to signing him to that amount. I think it seriously comes down to Cuban not wanting to pay. This is why I was worried overall with Nico cause Cuban is always going to call shots of this caliber.
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Last edited by Melonhead; 06-29-2022 at 12:17 AM.
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06-29-2022, 12:44 AM
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#464
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Budapest, Hungary
Posts: 2,209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson
I'm trying to see the bright side, but I just don't see it. What exactly was the risk? The Mavs are going to be way over the cap for the forseeable future with or without him, so it's not like we can chase free agents. The only real downside to paying him a boatload is that he would have been hard to trade. And honestly, who cares? Just another guy that you're stuck with for a couple of years, who then becomes extremely valuable in the final year of his deal.
Other than him just being harder to trade, what is the risk in overpaying him? I'm honestly thinking Cuban just doesn't want to go deeper into the luxury tax. I'm hoping that's not the case, but that's what it seems like.
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Aren't we set up for 2024 right now, with every one of our contracts outside of Luka coming off the books or be an expiring contract, with all of our future picks? I would be totally willing to wait for that scenario and roll with this current team until, if that means we can pair Luka up with someone REAL GOOD in 2024. It's very rare to win the chip with one hall of famer, I think we should go all-in for the 2024 free agency and set everything up to be able to do that.
Last edited by Budapest Maverick; 06-29-2022 at 12:45 AM.
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06-29-2022, 12:54 AM
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#465
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Guru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick
Aren't we set up for 2024 right now, with every one of our contracts outside of Luka coming off the books or be an expiring contract, with all of our future picks? I would be totally willing to wait for that scenario and roll with this current team until, if that means we can pair Luka up with someone REAL GOOD in 2024. It's very rare to win the chip with one hall of famer, I think we should go all-in for the 2024 free agency and set everything up to be able to do that.
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But isn't that just plan powder all over again? Let our good players go just hoping that one great player will come along in the future? We've been through this time and again. Why should we expect it to be different this time?
And have you looked at the 2024 free agent class? It's nothing spectacular. The only one that is particularly intriguing is Siakam. The rest are either probably lifers with their current teams and/or will be old and probably not impact players in two years.
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06-29-2022, 02:40 AM
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#466
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Guru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick
Aren't we set up for 2024 right now, with every one of our contracts outside of Luka coming off the books or be an expiring contract, with all of our future picks? I would be totally willing to wait for that scenario and roll with this current team until, if that means we can pair Luka up with someone REAL GOOD in 2024. It's very rare to win the chip with one hall of famer, I think we should go all-in for the 2024 free agency and set everything up to be able to do that.
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Been reading about this same plan since 2012.
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06-29-2022, 04:55 AM
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#467
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Platinum Member
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I totally get you guys, but you can still be competitive and have that plan. I mean, we have a pretty good team as of now, and we haven't ruined 2024 yet. My plan B would be Payton for sure. Two-years, full MLE, let's create the space for it, is it possible?
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06-29-2022, 04:59 AM
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#468
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Guru
Join Date: May 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick
I totally get you guys, but you can still be competitive and have that plan. I mean, we have a pretty good team as of now, and we haven't ruined 2024 yet. My plan B would be Payton for sure. Two-years, full MLE, let's create the space for it, is it possible?
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Warriors match. I mean yeah we?re ?competitive? as is. But that means fighting for a 7/8 seed. We were already in dire need of another dribbler. Worse with Jalen gone and Luka with another high usage rate.
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06-29-2022, 05:39 AM
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#469
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For all the bullshit over the years about Cuban taking care of his own players, he?s such a weasel. Free agents see this stuff the team that drafted him won?t even pay up. Sure it?s an overpay but not by much. The few extra mil per year is not worth letting him walk. Jalen brings value as second best player.
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Last edited by Melonhead; 06-29-2022 at 05:41 AM.
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06-29-2022, 06:42 AM
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#470
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick
I'm okay with JB leaving for now. The truth is that this would have been an extremely risky contract. Now, if he totally blows up in New York and becomes an All-Star, obviously that's a different scenario, but for now, let's entertain the possibility that we might be dodging a bullet here, because there is a relatively good chance that this is indeed what we are doing.
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Well I'm just getting the sense that neither side wanted each other. That seems like the bottom line. I never really saw a Brunson who loved being here or a FO that loved him being here.
Seems like the Jazz series sealed his fate. He played great without Luka. And when Luka came back, he was back to being mid to good some games. But it was nothing like the Jazz series.
But again, the Mavs f'ed it up by not getting assets in return. That's just inexcusable.
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06-29-2022, 07:25 AM
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#471
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I think it?s as simple as Cuban doesn?t want to pay 25m per
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06-29-2022, 07:31 AM
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#472
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Diamond Member
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For once I don?t think Cuban is being a cheap ass. Look at everything the Knicks have done not just since draft day, but since the start of the calendar year. They have had the inside track on Brunson and have known that he was headed their way.
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06-29-2022, 07:34 AM
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#473
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Nico has made some good moves. I'll trust he can spin this into something decent at least. He can't force JB to re-sign. I hated re-signing THJ but Nico came on board a flaming ship with Rick and Donnie getting tossed off in a heap suddenly.
Hold..hooooold.
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06-29-2022, 07:41 AM
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#474
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Diamond Member
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While only Dallas can offer a five-year contract and still has the ability to put a richer offer on the table than New York, sources indicate that the Mavericks don?t expect to be able to sway Brunson at this point. It is more likely, sources say, that Dallas will try to engage the Knicks in sign-and-trade talks to try to salvage a measure of compensation (and perhaps a trade exception) by trying to collaborate with New York on a deal. ? via Marc Stein @ marcstein.substack.com
So another TE we will let expire and not use?
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06-29-2022, 07:43 AM
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#475
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Diamond Member
Join Date: May 2008
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The source close to Brunson believes it is important for the Knicks to lay out a detailed plan of how they will become a contender if Brunson joins them. That means everyone being aligned ? front office, coaches, players ? with one mission in mind. Brunson, the source said, will create a pros-and-cons list when it comes time to make a decision. ? via Zach Braziller @ New York Post
Boy, I sure hope JB shares his pros/cons list. I?d love to be a fly on the wall to hear how the Knicks, a team that hasn?t won a playoff series since 2013, plans to become a contender.
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06-29-2022, 07:50 AM
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#476
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
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Lol JB about to learn real quick the difference between having defenses key in on you versus rushing to rotate to you after doubling Luka.
One good series against the Jazz (who allow every perimeter player to light them up) and here we are.
My plan B: sign TJ Warren to the full TPMLE; sign Dragic to the vet min and let's do this thing:
Luka - Dinwiddie - Dragic - Ntlikina
DFS - THJ - Hardy
Bull - Green - Pinson
Maxi - Warren - Bertans
Wood - Powell
We are missing an enforcer still, but f it. That's the best offensive team in the league. If we can maintain a top-15 defense we're a contender.
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06-29-2022, 08:03 AM
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#477
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Diamond Member
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The Knicks have 2 high usage lefties in Barrett and Randle. I?m assuming both prefer to drive left. I wonder how this will affect spacing with JB also being a lefty.
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06-29-2022, 08:06 AM
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#478
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tap2390
Lol JB about to learn real quick the difference between having defenses key in on you versus rushing to rotate to you after doubling Luka.
One good series against the Jazz (who allow every perimeter player to light them up) and here we are.
My plan B: sign TJ Warren to the full TPMLE; sign Dragic to the vet min and let's do this thing:
Luka - Dinwiddie - Dragic - Ntlikina
DFS - THJ - Hardy
Bull - Green - Pinson
Maxi - Warren - Bertans
Wood - Powell
We are missing an enforcer still, but f it. That's the best offensive team in the league. If we can maintain a top-15 defense we're a contender.
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Need Powell. Thj and Bertran gone. Trade them
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06-29-2022, 08:12 AM
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#479
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Enemy territory (SA)
Posts: 3,297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BPo001
The Knicks have 2 high usage lefties in Barrett and Randle. I?m assuming both prefer to drive left. I wonder how this will affect spacing with JB also being a lefty.
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Interesting -- haven't thought about this.
__________________
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06-29-2022, 08:40 AM
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#480
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: uranus
Posts: 13,577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tap2390
Lol JB about to learn real quick the difference between having defenses key in on you versus rushing to rotate to you after doubling Luka.
One good series against the Jazz (who allow every perimeter player to light them up) and here we are.
My plan B: sign TJ Warren to the full TPMLE; sign Dragic to the vet min and let's do this thing:
Luka - Dinwiddie - Dragic - Ntlikina
DFS - THJ - Hardy
Bull - Green - Pinson
Maxi - Warren - Bertans
Wood - Powell
We are missing an enforcer still, but f it. That's the best offensive team in the league. If we can maintain a top-15 defense we're a contender.
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Good post. Would recommend.
I'm definitely on the TJ Warren train.
Your plan B is where I'm at.
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you just proofed how stupid you are - CRAZYBOY
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