2024 Western Conference Finals: Dallas Mavericks vs Minnesota Timberwolves

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

In addition to that, I think in basketball, when the talent of the two teams is equal or at least close to equal, the team with the best player almost always wins.

And you know what? The Mavs have the best player left in the playoffs BY FAR.

Luka > Ant
Luka > Tatum
Luka > everyone else

Luka is the best player in the league which is an opinion I've had for a while.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Luka is the best player in the league which is an opinion I've had for a while.

I'm still gonna say Jokic... for now. But Jokic just got eliminated and the Mavs are 2-0 against the team that eliminated him. So fuck it. Luka > every other basketball player in the world.

[Melonhead]

I still got Mavs in 6. Anything sooner is gravy.

[Simon2]

I just love how Luka cusses out Gobert and the crowd then when he is interviewed by the TNT crew, he is like ?I was just getting to my spot?

Talks like a saint but plays like the devil.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Re-watching the game. Gotta give Jaden Hardy some love again. I continue to be impressed with this kid. He made a few mistakes early on, but played through them and ended up making a very big contribution. No way the Mavs win without him. Especially considering THJ and Exum have inexplicably fallen off the face of the earth.

If he doesn't consistently play 20+ minutes next year, something is very wrong.

[DIRK LEGIONS]

This is the most complete roster in terms of skill depth and talent. That franchise has every had in its history and it not a old has been team like to dirk 2011 Champs.

This team long and has contract term to keep rotation together. Get rid of Powell and Hardaway Jr and resign Jones Jr. He is perfect fit to this team he a must sign

[DIRK LEGIONS]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Re-watching the game. Gotta give Jaden Hardy some love again. I continue to be impressed with this kid. He made a few mistakes early on, but played through them and ended up making a very big contribution. No way the Mavs win without him. Especially considering THJ and Exum have inexplicably fallen off the face of the earth.

If he doesn't consistently play 20+ minutes next year, something is very wrong.

Hardaway and exum are dead weight along with Powell cl3ar out their salaries and find more players that fit like Jones Jr did this yr

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by DIRK LEGIONS

This is the most complete roster in terms of skill depth and talent. That franchise has every had in its history and it not a old has been team like to dirk 2011 Champs.

This team long and has contract term to keep rotation together. Get rid of Powell and Hardaway Jr and resign Jones Jr. He is perfect fit to this team he a must sign

You might be right, but this one was pretty special as well:

Harper/Blackman/Aguirre/Perkins/Donaldson
Davis/Ellis/Schrempf/Vincent/Nemphius

Too bad they had to deal with:
Magic/Scott/Cooper/Worthy/Jabbar
Spriggs/Kupchak/Rambis/Lucas/McGee/Green

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

You might be right, but this one was pretty special as well:

Harper/Blackman/Aguirre/Perkins/Donaldson
Davis/Ellis/Schrempf/Vincent/Nemphius

The 88 Mavs? Man, don't forget Tarpley.

That 3-10 is way better than the current Mavs' 3-10. But the current Mavs have by FAR the better 1 and 2. Nobody on the 88 Mavs was as good as even as good as Kyrie, let alone Luka. Nobody on that roster came within light years of Luka.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

The 88 Mavs? Man, don't forget Tarpley.

That 3-10 is way better than the current Mavs' 3-10. But the current Mavs have by FAR the better 1 and 2. Nobody on the 88 Mavs was as good as even as good as Kyrie, let alone Luka. Nobody on that roster came within light years of Luka.

I think 85-86 Mavs was a little deeper than 1988.
Dale Ellis, Detlif Schrempf, Brad Davis and Jay Vincent as bench players was borderline criminal.
Those 4 would have been a top 3 player for most teams in the league at that time.

[DIRK LEGIONS]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

You might be right, but this one was pretty special as well:

Harper/Blackman/Aguirre/Perkins/Donaldson
Davis/Ellis/Schrempf/Vincent/Nemphius

Too bad they had to deal with:
Magic/Scott/Cooper/Worthy/Jabbar
Spriggs/Kupchak/Rambis/Lucas/McGee/Green

Those mavs teams remind of Knicks teams that where cock bl9cked by Jordan and Bulls in 90s.

Should have won a ring with that group in 80s

[DIRK LEGIONS]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C7Sl6...YzNnJla28zdnp3

[Thespiralgoeson]

https://youtu.be/P4MjNP78hK0?t=45

Luka's a cruel, sadistic bastard, and I fucking love it.

Also, Luka utterly owning Gobert is a theme that has run throughout his whole career.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

https://youtu.be/P4MjNP78hK0?t=45

Luka's a cruel, sadistic bastard, and I fucking love it.

Also, Luka utterly owning Gobert is a theme that has run throughout his whole career.

What's funny is Luka is the nicest guy in the world if you're goofing around, doing trick shots, playing some 1 on 1.

But when the game starts...it's a cold day to play against him.

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

You might be right, but this one was pretty special as well:

Harper/Blackman/Aguirre/Perkins/Donaldson
Davis/Ellis/Schrempf/Vincent/Nemphius

Too bad they had to deal with:
Magic/Scott/Cooper/Worthy/Jabbar
Spriggs/Kupchak/Rambis/Lucas/McGee/Green

You?re correct. That was definitely a more complete roster. It just had to go through one of the greatest dynasties in the history of the sport although I would have gone with the 87-88 team that included Tarpley. One can make an argument that the team was only 8 players deep, but that?s pretty much what many teams used in the playoffs? an 8 man rotation.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

https://youtu.be/P4MjNP78hK0?t=45

Luka's a cruel, sadistic bastard, and I fucking love it.

Also, Luka utterly owning Gobert is a theme that has run throughout his whole career.

Lively with the im here for you is so nice.

It?s kinda hard not to get carried away with what?s happened, but we?ve seen wolves lose 3 in a row and come back and win the next 2. This one is not over but I can?t fault people for getting crazy right now.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Re-watching the game. Gotta give Jaden Hardy some love again. I continue to be impressed with this kid. He made a few mistakes early on, but played through them and ended up making a very big contribution. No way the Mavs win without him. Especially considering THJ and Exum have inexplicably fallen off the face of the earth.

If he doesn't consistently play 20+ minutes next year, something is very wrong.

This. Hardy is thriving on the big stage. He is making the right plays on offense and had huge lobs, assists. He has played way better than i thought he could on defense too.

In theory, Omax and Hardy ahould be big role players next year. You have to be happy with where we are pointed as an org, atm.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Lively with the im here for you is so nice.

It?s kinda hard not to get carried away with what?s happened, but we?ve seen wolves lose 3 in a row and come back and win the next 2. This one is not over but I can?t fault people for getting crazy right now.

Yea. Im definitely not getting carried away. Crazy things happen, and these games are too close to feel comfortable. We could easily be down 0-2 right now.

Even if we close this series out, we will likely face yet another team that we have not had much success with if its Boston.

The positive I look to is that we have beaten these teams in the POs that we have lost to quite a bit

[EricaLubarsky]

Pessimist
1-2 points either way and we're down 0-2. Entire series has been decided by 4pts
Wolves are a hair better in every statistical category
Ant is only shooting 33% from the field in this series and will get going. He is still averaging 48/39% for the entire playoff run. Statistically he should be due for a big game.
Wolves are 5-1 on the road in this playoffs (.833) and only 3-2 at home (.600) so they will be favored in the next two in Dallas.
The wolves had a 9-point lead in game 1. They had an 18pt lead last night. They continue to get leads on us.
We're averaging 2 more TO than them (+3, +1)
Despite our bigs, we were -10 on the boards in the first half
We still have a planned Brothers game (game 3?)
PJ disappeared and is only shooting 38% and 17% from three

Optimist
Wolves are a mediocre 3-2 at home in this playoffs. Even if they sweep us at home we'd just need to win both in Minny.
We are +6 avg on the boards (+8, +4). After getting down -10 in the first half we out-rebounded them by 14 in the second half
They have shot 11 more FTs than us and we're 2-0
Game 2 it took a statistical fluke night by Reid to be close and that was with a bad FT night and a quiet night from Kyrie
Centers in game 1: 19pts, 20reb, 3blk
Centers in game 2: 30pts, 14reb, 5blk
Two bad games by PJ. One ho-hum game from Kai. Two average games by Luka and we're 2-0

Realist
I fully think that the Wolves are a better overall team, but don't care. It could just as easily be 1-1 or 0-2, but winners win and we won
Even if Wolves are better (which I think they are), they have to win 4 of 5 now.

[EricaLubarsky]

Flukish or not, history says that we're in good shape. A team has never come back from 0-3. Is it still possible? Technically, but it has yet to happen in the seven-game series era of the NBA.

Game 3 is going to be a crucial game.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Pessimist
1-2 points either way and we're down 0-2. Entire series has been decided by 4pts
Wolves are a hair better in every statistical category
Ant is only shooting 33% from the field in this series and will get going. He is still averaging 48/39% for the entire playoff run. Statistically he should be due for a big game.
Wolves are 5-1 on the road in this playoffs (.833) and only 3-2 at home (.600) so they will be favored in the next two in Dallas.
The wolves had a 9-point lead in game 1. They had an 18pt lead last night. They continue to get leads on us.
We're averaging 2 more TO than them (+3, +1)
Despite our bigs, we were -10 on the boards in the first half
We still have a planned Brothers game (game 3?)
PJ disappeared and is only shooting 38% and 17% from three

Optimist
Wolves are a mediocre 3-2 at home in this playoffs. Even if they sweep us at home we'd just need to win both in Minny.
We are +6 avg on the boards (+8, +4). After getting down -10 in the first half we out-rebounded them by 14 in the second half
They have shot 11 more FTs than us and we're 2-0
Game 2 it took a statistical fluke night by Reid to be close and that was with a bad FT night and a quiet night from Kyrie
Centers in game 1: 19pts, 20reb, 3blk
Centers in game 2: 30pts, 14reb, 5blk
Two bad games by PJ. One ho-hum game from Kai. Two average games by Luka and we're 2-0

Realist
I fully think that the Wolves are a better overall team, but don't care. It could just as easily be 1-1 or 0-2, but winners win and we won
Even if Wolves are better (which I think they are), they have to win 4 of 5 now.

See the thing is, I don?t actually think they?re a better team than us. Their 3-10 is better, sure. But our 1 and 2 is WAY better, and in the NBA, I would always rather have the best 1 and 2 than the best 3-10. Luka is just plain better than ANT and kyrie is light years better than KAT. And also, when you mention the wolves leading in every statistical category, isn?t that over the whole season? As far as I?m concerned anything before the last 20 games is irrelevant. The Mavs were hands-down the best team in the league over the last 20 games of the regular season.

Also, no fucking way the wolves are favored to win both games in Dallas. No fucking way. I understand that their road record is better than their home record. I?ll say maybe they?re the favorites to win one game. I?m no oddsmaker, but I just can?t imagine that a 5-1 road record translates to automatically being favored to win both games in Dallas. That ignores too many other variables.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Flukish or not, history says that we're in good shape. A team has never come back from 0-3. Is it still possible? Technically, but it has yet to happen in the seven-game series era of the NBA.

Game 3 is going to be a crucial game.

I don?t think it?s flukish at all. The Mavs just flat out executed better down the stretch in both games. I think Minnesota?s inexperience is showing a little bit. Luka and Kyrie have boatloads of big game experience. We all remember what Kyrie did in 2016, and Luka has been doing this shit since he was a teenager.

[Scoobay]

kinda cool - Luka's shot recreated by drones over Dallas Skyline

https://twitter.com/i/status/1794216698628768021

[Scoobay]

lol a quote from nba reddit about why Ant was gassed to the point of needing oxygen - the suggestion was to have Ant guard Luka instead of Mcdaniels but once that got shot down, then this...

"So who is guarding Luka then? This Mavs team is just hard to stop, you have to pick your poison and Luka has a whole pharmacy available for you."

also:

"Can?t breathe. He?s choking"

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

See the thing is, I don?t actually think they?re a better team than us. Their 3-10 is better, sure. But our 1 and 2 is WAY better, and in the NBA, I would always rather have the best 1 and 2 than the best 3-10. Luka is just plain better than ANT and kyrie is light years better than KAT. And also, when you mention the wolves leading in every statistical category, isn?t that over the whole season? As far as I?m concerned anything before the last 20 games is irrelevant. The Mavs were hands-down the best team in the league over the last 20 games of the regular season.

Also, no fucking way the wolves are favored to win both games in Dallas. No fucking way. I understand that their road record is better than their home record. I?ll say maybe they?re the favorites to win one game. I?m no oddsmaker, but I just can?t imagine that a 5-1 road record translates to automatically being favored to win both games in Dallas. That ignores too many other variables.

Mavs are -2.5 which is actually down from -3.5 earlier. But the Mavs will be favored for Game three barring unforeseen injury.

[MFFL]

And lets hope for good news when the Mavs officially evaluate Maxi's basketball readiness tomorrow.

[Melonhead]

During the time Anthony Edwards was checked out of the game from 7:53 to 5:31 remaining in the 4th Q, the Wolves guard put on a face mask to receive oxygen in the tunnel by the Minnesota bench.

-Dave McMenamin

Me: All things being equal obviously Luka is what puts the Mavs over the wolves. It feels like the Mavs stole both games with consistently being down in both games. But that?s where experience comes in during the fourth quarter. If it?s within 5 points with 5 to go, I trust this team to bring it home 9/10 times. Wolves 3-10 is probably better than the Mavs. The bench for the Mavs is non existent and PJ naturally regressed after the okc series.

Both okc and wolves stars are just starting and will only get better in the years to come. The Mavs time is now.

[ShaggyDirk]

I would be perfectly happy if Mavs pulled off one of these per decade. That's about as much as can be expected from the little Mavericks.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Re-watching the game. Gotta give Jaden Hardy some love again. I continue to be impressed with this kid. He made a few mistakes early on, but played through them and ended up making a very big contribution. No way the Mavs win without him. Especially considering THJ and Exum have inexplicably fallen off the face of the earth.

If he doesn't consistently play 20+ minutes next year, something is very wrong.

Having watched the game twice now, I think Green deserves a bit of love too. He was atrociously bad in game 1, but he game out in game 2 and had a positive impact. Only five points, but he sunk an open 3 when the Mavs desperately needed one. That definitely affected the momentum. He also had two huge steals.

I was so excited for both Green and Hardy last year after they both started to break out. But it felt like the both regressed severely this year. Looking back on the regular season, I think they both fell victim to the roster just having a logjam at their positions. Too many guards. THJ was scorching hot in the first half of the season and then Exum looked great too for large stretches, and Green and Hardy just got lost in the shuffle. I do worry that the lack of playing time stunted the development of both players. Then Green got hurt and I was just about ready to give up on him.

Hardy I still think has legit star potential. It's easy to forget he's only 21. Give him 20-30 minutes a game, and I have no doubt he can be a 15ppg kind of guy, maybe even better.

Green though has been such a frustrating roller coaster ride from day 1. For the first year he looks like a total bust, and year two frankly wasn't much better. But year three he starts to break out and look like the quality starter we hoping for. Then he falls off a cliff immediately after getting paid. I think by year 4, we usually know what kind of player you are, but I still don't quite know what to think of him. At the very least, he's a quality rotation guy. He can hit open threes, and that's enough to be valuable in the NBA.

Kidd needs to stop fucking around with THJ and Exum. Lively, Hardy, and Green. Those guys plus the 5 starters should be our 8 man rotation for the remainder of the playoffs. Once you get past the second round, pretty much every team uses a 7-8 man rotation anyway.

[EricaLubarsky]

https://gyazo.com/81e1cf9485a2f6f1d2b1e7bfe8170efa

Love this dude

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Having watched the game twice now, I think Green deserves a bit of love too. He was atrociously bad in game 1, but he game out in game 2 and had a positive impact. Only five points, but he sunk an open 3 when the Mavs desperately needed one. That definitely affected the momentum. He also had two huge steals.

I was so excited for both Green and Hardy last year after they both started to break out. But it felt like the both regressed severely this year. Looking back on the regular season, I think they both fell victim to the roster just having a logjam at their positions. Too many guards. THJ was scorching hot in the first half of the season and then Exum looked great too for large stretches, and Green and Hardy just got lost in the shuffle. I do worry that the lack of playing time stunted the development of both players. Then Green got hurt and I was just about ready to give up on him.

Hardy I still think has legit star potential. It's easy to forget he's only 21. Give him 20-30 minutes a game, and I have no doubt he can be a 15ppg kind of guy, maybe even better.

Green though has been such a frustrating roller coaster ride from day 1. For the first year he looks like a total bust, and year two frankly wasn't much better. But year three he starts to break out and look like the quality starter we hoping for. Then he falls off a cliff immediately after getting paid. I think by year 4, we usually know what kind of player you are, but I still don't quite know what to think of him. At the very least, he's a quality rotation guy. He can hit open threes, and that's enough to be valuable in the NBA.

Kidd needs to stop fucking around with THJ and Exum. Lively, Hardy, and Green. Those guys plus the 5 starters should be our 8 man rotation for the remainder of the playoffs. Once you get past the second round, pretty much every team uses a 7-8 man rotation anyway.

You just never know what Green is going to show up which makes rooting for him so frustrating.

I feel like Hardy has been more consistent in his minutes than Green.

But both are luxuries right now. They need to show more next season both of them.

I think Hardy for sure takes THJ's role. That's almost certain unless something goes awry.

Green's role is a bit more of a mystery. But if we can't keep DJJ, then I'd assume he starts at SF.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

You just never know what Green is going to show up which makes rooting for him so frustrating.

I feel like Hardy has been more consistent in his minutes than Green.

But both are luxuries right now. They need to show more next season both of them.

I think Hardy for sure takes THJ's role. That's almost certain unless something goes awry.

Green's role is a bit more of a mystery. But if we can't keep DJJ, then I'd assume he starts at SF.

I think two things hurt Josh this year...injuries, and DJJ being a better fit in the SL after the big trades.
Josh was pretty much considered the starter going into the season, but the elbow injury set him back imo.

I'm thinking/hoping he will adapt and settle into his role as a backup next season and I also hope OMax steps it up big time so that we have a solid wing rotation of: DJJ/PJ/Green/OMax/Maxi.

I just get the feeling Josh came into the season thinking he'd be the #3 guy but that obviously didn't come to fruition.
He just needs to get a better control of his game and athleticism and embrace his more fitting role off the bench. If he does that, he should be fine next season.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

You just never know what Green is going to show up which makes rooting for him so frustrating.

I feel like Hardy has been more consistent in his minutes than Green.

But both are luxuries right now. They need to show more next season both of them.

I think Hardy for sure takes THJ's role. That's almost certain unless something goes awry.

Green's role is a bit more of a mystery. But if we can't keep DJJ, then I'd assume he starts at SF.

The problem with Green starting is he's just too small to defend bigger wings. He can defend most guards well enough, but a big, strong wing like DJJ just gives you so much more on defense. If Green was some kind of lights-out scorer, that could make up for what you lose on defense, but he's not quite that. If we can't keep DJJ, then I think we need to look for another big, athletic wing. Preferably one that can shoot 3s more consistently. (Those kinds of players don't grow on trees, I know. If DJJ was a good 3pt shooter, he'd probably be an all-star.) Green I think is best suited coming off the bench, same as Hardy.

[Scoobay]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

The problem with Green starting is he's just too small to defend bigger wings. He can defend most guards well enough, but a big, strong wing like DJJ just gives you so much more on defense. If Green was some kind of lights-out scorer, that could make up for what you lose on defense, but he's not quite that. If we can't keep DJJ, then I think we need to look for another big, athletic wing. Preferably one that can shoot 3s more consistently. (Those kinds of players don't grow on trees, I know. If DJJ was a good 3pt shooter, he'd probably be an all-star.) Green I think is best suited coming off the bench, same as Hardy.

hmmmm... is DJJ really that much bigger than Green?
i think DJJ has the better vert and i see a 7' wingspan but in terms of height i see anywhere from 6'5" to 6'7" for DJJ and 6'5" to 6'6" for Josh.

DJJ is definitely a much better defender... can Green get there?
We know Josh has all kinds of athletic tools that we see on display from time to time but can his defense be coached up? He was getting lost on screens all the time. He needs to adjust his close outs to contend but not foul.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by Scoobay

hmmmm... is DJJ really that much bigger than Green?
i think DJJ has the better vert and i see a 7' wingspan but in terms of height i see anywhere from 6'5" to 6'7" for DJJ and 6'5" to 6'6" for Josh.

DJJ is definitely a much better defender... can Green get there?
We know Josh has all kinds of athletic tools that we see on display from time to time but can his defense be coached up? He was getting lost on screens all the time. He needs to adjust his close outs to contend but not foul.

I haven?t looked up their measurements, but DJJ certainly looks bigger and stronger to me.

[Scoobay]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I haven?t looked up their measurements, but DJJ certainly looks bigger and stronger to me.

lol yeah i know what you mean - DJJ plays bigger any way and he's much better at navigating traffic. Those extra few inches of vertical leap also make a difference in terms of contesting shots or even blocking jumpers as we've seen. And Josh is no slouch athletically either but God I hope he gets better at defense. He has all the tools and we see him competing - the effort is there.

[Scoobay]

KYRIE IRVING has been the best player defensively on the MAVERICKS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIlEUkuMYBE


AC with more props for Kyrie defense. Dude is easier to listen when he's not ranting and also when he's giving credit to mavs players lol.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Of course Tony Brothers has to ref a game I'm going to...ugh.

23948 fouls incoming.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Of course Tony Brothers has to ref a game I'm going to...ugh.

23948 fouls incoming.

I think this hurts wolves too they like to play physical at times and aren?t the most disciplined when it comes to the physicality.

Edit: that said, I think we see like 75 moving screens called tonight

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by Scoobay

KYRIE IRVING has been the best player defensively on the MAVERICKS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIlEUkuMYBE


AC with more props for Kyrie defense. Dude is easier to listen when he's not ranting and also when he's giving credit to mavs players lol.

That was awesome. Flawless defense and setting the example for the rest of the team.