juwan howard/reeds bashing thread

[Murphy3]

just thought i'd let everyone that dislikes juwan howard to be able to let it out...voice your opinions here.
maybe if we all vent a little, we'll feel less saddened by the fact that the mavs will probably have juwan on the roster next year.

[djb]

Aren't there already like a couple dozen Juwan bashing threads? Perhaps a thread highlighting the positives would be more in order [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

[LonestarROB]

Ditto that dj. This is like the 3th or 4th time you've made a thread just on this subject Murph. Isn't there something better to talk about?

[MFFL]

murph - you seem to be bashing Juwan just fine on the "Juwan Howard" thread. Why a new one?

[Mavinator]

It's slipping...

[Flying Tiger]

Man Murph...get a life. I like the guy and I don't see how you could be so against someone who helped the team so much at the end of the season. Just go ahead and post your retarded numbers to try to prove me wrong. The only thing that matters is that the Mavs won more with him than they did without him.

[Murphy3]

i'm not saying that juwan didn't help the team last year..but, I believe that juwan howard is not going to help this Mavericks team beat a team like the lakers or the spurs.

fine, if you're satisfied with losing to the lakers year in year out, keep juwan on the team. he is THAT MUCH of a liability on the defensive and rebounding side. the mavericks cannot beat anyone in a series that has a dominating presence at the 4 spot for as long as juwan is the power forward here.

so what, he helped the mavs last year. what the hell is your goal here? to be able to beat teams with an average power forward? or to be able to be the #3 seed going into the playoffs?
or would you like to be able to contend with the lakers?..or how about beating a team with a dominating power forward..would you like to beat one of those teams in a series? well, the mavs won't as long as they rely on juwan howard at the power forward position...HE'S TOO MUCH OF A LIABILITY DEFENSIVELY AND ON THE GLASS. HE WILL GET THE MAVS BEAT, SINGLEHANDEDLY IF HE'S RELIED UPON DEFENSIVELY AGAINST A TOP NOTCH POWER FORWARD.
the mavs are just lucky malone is on the extreme downhill side of his career.

[LonestarROB]

"what the hell is your goal here? to be able to beat teams with an average power forward?"

If your saying Karl Malone is an average pf, then yes. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

[Murphy3]

i'm saying that karl malone isn't an elite power forward anymore.
would you agree that there are a few teams in the western conference that have better power forwards than malone?
i think that pretty much everyone would....he's simply not an elite power forward anymore

but i agree with you rob, i'd like the mavs to beat the hell out of utah every chance they get.

and in the western conference, malone is probably getting close to average

[LonestarROB]

In the Western conference, I'd rank them like this.

Duncan
Garnett
Webber
McDyess
Malone
Wallace(he gets t'd to much to be higher)
Howard

[Murphy3]

i'd think i'd have to put kevin garnett and antwan jamison in there somewhere above juwan howard.

well, that's ok..the mavs have the 8th best power forward in the west offensively, ...and the absolute worst defensively ....and maybe the worst rebounder. he may average more rebounds than some of the PF's on other teams, but it's only because of increased minutes

[LonestarROB]

Doh, forgot about him. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif[/img] *EDIT*

[turbo.mav]

i want juwan howard to show up at murphy3s house and throw a brick through his window

[scooterj5]

HAHAHA true true

[TheKid]

I do know one thing. I HATE Malone, truly I do, but I'm sorry, I think he's still an EXCEPTIONAL power forward. Would we have been upset to have in the playoffs lastyear a line up of Nash, Fin, Dirk, MALONE and Bradley. I think not, and I tell you what, our series against San Antonio would have been MUCH more interesting if we had him instead of Howard. I'm not saying we would have WON, but we would have had a better chance. He's brings a toughness that we need. I hate him because that could be interpreted as dirty at times, but he does bring a toughness that we were just flat out lacking.

[seelenjaeger]

i think with Malone in the team we quite certainly would have won. There are not many PF who can match Duncan just by muscling him out, Malone is one of them. He may be old, he may be (or get - depends) dirty, but his athlecism is beyond any critic.

Defensively I think Malone is in another league to most of the PF´s around here in the West, Webber just don´t play D, Garnett is a great PF aswell, and Duncan. That´s the top 3 in "Whole-Game" in my eyes, McDyess, Wallace, both may suit up defensively, but they cant match on the offense, Webber cant contend on the D-side, some others are still too young ...

Howard is a second layer PF, no doubt, but better go with a second (or - sorry murph, but I have to take into account that you may complain about beeing only a third layer PF - a third layer) alongside Dirk and Bradley than to go with NO upper level PF ... (and this he is, or do you want those Vin Baker / Kurt Thomas / Chris Gatling guys around - not even the worst guys, but I give Howard a gap over those ...)

J

[Murphy3]

Hey, i never said he wasn't a second tier power forward.
all i'm saying is that the mavs are gonna have to have someone at that spot that can rebound and play defense.
juwan's two most glaring weaknesses are his defense and rebounding..which are two things this team desperately needs at the 4 spot

[Murphy3]

i don't want our focus on bashing juwan to decrease...so i thought i'd bump this up.

[Flying Tiger]

Hahaha...love the signature! Can we make this a Juwan Howard/reeds bashing thread?

[Murphy3]

is that better?

[Flying Tiger]

Thanks...much, much better.

[reeds]

Start bashing already....whats the holdup??? Im game... take a peek below....

[Flying Tiger]

Whoa...that's harsh.

[#41]

Hey Kid, you're right man! Malone is a moron, I hate him so much, everytime he shoots the ball I wish he throws an airball!
And you're also right, that he's a great player, but as a person he's a bastard. Now about Juwan Howard, he's the player the Mavs needed: a post up man, why should we be afraid, they might loose games next season because of him? Wasn't he the guy who made 30+ points against the probably best PF, Chris Webber? (well Tim Duncan is a better defender)
Stop talking crap, murphy! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]

[Murphy3]

although juwan howard was a benefit to the mavs next year, his lack of defensive ability and rebounding ability at the 4 spot (probably the most crucial defensive spot in the western conference) will be detrimental to the mavs chances of winning
2-3 series in the western conference playoffs against elite power forwards and centers.

the mavs also cannot afford to have a physically weak center (shawn bradley or calvin booth) and juwan howard on the floor at the same time, because bradley/booth aren't strong enough, and howard isn't athletic enough to guard elite players at their position

[TheKid]

Actually that's probably the best point and has been how I feel about Juwan too. Juwan, Bradley and Booth can't be on the court at the same time. Bradley is a shot blocker, but not a banger. Booth is a shot blocker not a banger and Juwan is a scorer! We need someone to be strong on the front line, quiet as kept, Mark Bryant helped a lot in that Utah series. He just gave enough toughness to the front line that enable some rebounds, people weren't driving through middle like they were with San Antonio. We need DALE DAVIS!!!!!

[Murphy3]

that's been the basis of my juwan argument all along.
we can't have booth/bradley and juwan on the court at the same time and expect to be good enough defensively to win 3 series in the western conference.... and if i had to choose between bradley starting at the 5 and bringing in someone else to start at 4 that could bang or howard starting at 5, and bringing in a banger at the 5 spot, ...i'd take bradley starting at 5...

for 2 reasons
1. bradley can change the game defensively with his ability to block shots.
2. It's easier to find a banger at the 4 spot than it is at the 5 spot

[Flying Tiger]

I dissagree with yall about Malone. I hate him as a player, but I think he's an alright guy off the court.
And I think that Juwan Howard helps the Mavs too much with his rebounding and defensive abilities to let him go.

[TheKid]

Flying,

Don't get me wrong, I HATE Malone too, but I recognize the guy is good. He still puts up good numbers for someone so damn old. Like I said, even though I hate him, he is a better player than Juwan. I don't think Juwan sucks actually from an offensive standpoint, I think he's good. HOWEVER I do not think he's a good rebounder or defensive player. He's not terrible, but he could do much better in those areas.

[Murphy3]

well, he might not be a terrible defender, but i would probably go with horrible.

juwan is a downgrade defensively from christian laettner, and that's saying alot considering laettner is hobbled and never will be as agile as he once was after the achilles injury.

#'s for juwan as a mav in 36 games
Pts
16.56
rebounds
7.63
FG%
45%

#'s for opposing teams staring PF against mavs after the trade
Pts per game
20.81
Rebounds
9.01
FG%
51%

am I the only one here that sees enormous gaps in between the two sets of numbers?
It's very obvious

[Flying Tiger]

First off...I was trying to piss of Murphy. I really don't think Juwan is good at rebounding or defence. Secondly...I agree that Malone is good. I think that he's a great player, but I hate him because he's dirty.