"Public Disagrees with Cuban"....? - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

OutletPass · 08-28-2003, 11:09 AM

Kobe case 'great for business'? Maybe not, says new poll

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SportsNation

According to a new ESPN SportsNation poll, most Americans are not more likely to watch NBA games because of the sexual assault charges Kobe Bryant is facing.
Sixty-seven percent of American adults said that the allegations against the Los Angeles Lakers star do not alter the amount of attention they will give to the NBA this season.
This finding runs counter to Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban's claim that the Bryant case would increase fan interest in the NBA. Earlier this month, Cuban, speaking of the Bryant case, said, "From a business perspective, it's great for the NBA." In fact, more people in the survey said they would spend less time following the NBA or the Lakers (14 percent) than said they would spend more time (10 percent).

mikeinrowlett · 08-28-2003, 11:31 AM

The attitude will change when the trial starts.

Hitman · 08-28-2003, 11:45 AM

Again, this is what was discussed with Mark Cuban, and the poll is not really representing what Cuban was saying.

People are not going to reply to a poll on August 28th and say that they "are more interested" in the NBA since the Kobe case came out. But people will be watching the news, and reading the newspaper and reading magazines, and the Kobe case will be all over the place. And when they find out that Kobe is playing tonight on TNT, ALOT of people who normally wouldn't give a hoot about basketball, will be more inclined to turn it on just to see Kobe in action. Interest, and ratings, will go up. "Great for business." If a small percentage of those who tune in (and if you don't think that more people will tune in initially then you are smoking some awesome stuff), like what they see in the NBA product, then again, it is "Great for business."

In my own informal "polls", when I discuss the fact that the Mavericks are playing the Lakers on national television in the season opener to my "non basketball obsessed" friends and family members, I get responses like "oooh, that should be interesting," and "Kobe will be playing! That is going to be crazy," and I guarantee that many of these people will be tuning in on October 28th. The rating for that game will be astronomical. And if some of those people who normally wouldn't spend two seconds of thought on the NBA like what they see in the product, maybe they like Nash or Nowitzki or even if they get a kick out of Cuban acting like a petulant teenager in the stands, then this whole ordeal will be great for "business."

There is nothing great about rape. Nothing. But there is nothing great about war, but that does not change the fact that war drives the price of certain stocks through the roof. So perhaps war is "great" for some stocks. This is Cuban's analogy, and it certainly rings true.

Unfortunate, but true.

kg_veteran · 08-28-2003, 11:51 AM

Hitman, I'm not saying that this poll is conclusive evidence of anything, but you can't just dismiss it, either. Especially not with conclusory logic.

I bet you're right about opening night in that more people will turn on the game just to see if Kobe's wearing a jumpsuit yet, but to think that people who weren't going to watch will watch the entire game just because Kobe's on, well, that seems to me to be a bit naive.

But I'm not going to accuse you of smoking the awesome stuff at this point; I'm just going to wait and see what ratings are really like.

In the long run I think we'll find out that Cuban was wrong -- twice.

denig · 08-28-2003, 12:09 PM

>In my own informal "polls", when I discuss the fact that the Mavericks are playing the Lakers on national television in the season opener to my "non basketball obsessed" friends and family members, I get responses like "oooh, that should be interesting," and "Kobe will be playing! That is going to be crazy," and I guarantee that many of these people will be tuning in on October 28th

this is the point. isn't it. The poll that ESPN sports took was voted on by people who are already sports watchers, not by the "non basketball obsessed". For that one would need to hit the streets or make some sort of actual effort to reach non sports people.

When Cuban pointed out that the poll did not address the real issue, Patrick said, well, I still don't think you should have said it. I don't think there is any real question as to the truth of Cuban's statements. The question seems to be, should he have said it (the truth). I find this a mind bogglingly strange question. But it is not limited to sports, it pervades everything, these days.

"Many people today don't want honest answers insofar as honest means unpleasant or disturbing, They want a soft answer that turneth away anxiety. ...Louis Kronenberger"

antiks · 08-28-2003, 12:10 PM

Hello, new here, so please don't hurt me..

I totally believe that Cuban has every right to say what he said, he is an owner of a team in the league, and if he feels like it's (the ol' mighty kobe drama) going to help his league then why censor himself?

Did the jewler who sold Kobe that 4 mil dollar ring feel bad that he profited from this?
And do you think He/She would deny it if someone asks them?

I think people might have taken the whole Cuban thing way to far, all I got from what Cuban said was that regardless of the negative publicity, people will turn in to watch Kobe play in his first game, ( Kind of like the rubbernecking during accidents) and that in turn will get the advertisers out there to notice and fight for commercial spots during that game, which thus in turn trickle down from the network to the NBA, which would be "financially" a good thing.

It's just like controversy sells records, it also sells advertising spots. And I believe that was what Cuban was saying.

And i think it's pointless to poll sports watching people, because that wasn't Cubes' point, his point was that the NBA is going to generate people like Barbara Walters to "check out the soap opera" for a period or two, and in the end some of those people will realize they actually like to watch the game of Basketball. Thus the NBA gets new fans which equal more money.

Chiwas · 08-28-2003, 12:21 PM

Cuban is honest. Said what he thinks is true.

He will have to face the consecuences, but his principles remain intact.

How many are unable to do that?

Drbio · 08-28-2003, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: mikeinrowlett
The attitude will change when the trial starts.

I have to agree. Plus, it is a known sociological fact that poll respondents will give answers to a pollster that are more politically correct rather than answer honestly. Don't summarily dismiss them, but take these polls with a huge grain of salt.

dude1394 · 08-28-2003, 12:43 PM

Durn... I don't believe half of the "polls" taken by reputable pollsters, like I'm going to believe anything done by a sports network. As soon as gallup comes out I'll look at it. At leats they will give the actual text.

Jeremiah · 08-28-2003, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Hitman
Again, this is what was discussed with Mark Cuban, and the poll is not really representing what Cuban was saying.

People are not going to reply to a poll on August 28th and say that they "are more interested" in the NBA since the Kobe case came out. But people will be watching the news, and reading the newspaper and reading magazines, and the Kobe case will be all over the place. And when they find out that Kobe is playing tonight on TNT, ALOT of people who normally wouldn't give a hoot about basketball, will be more inclined to turn it on just to see Kobe in action. Interest, and ratings, will go up. "Great for business." If a small percentage of those who tune in (and if you don't think that more people will tune in initially then you are smoking some awesome stuff), like what they see in the NBA product, then again, it is "Great for business."

In my own informal "polls", when I discuss the fact that the Mavericks are playing the Lakers on national television in the season opener to my "non basketball obsessed" friends and family members, I get responses like "oooh, that should be interesting," and "Kobe will be playing! That is going to be crazy," and I guarantee that many of these people will be tuning in on October 28th. The rating for that game will be astronomical. And if some of those people who normally wouldn't spend two seconds of thought on the NBA like what they see in the product, maybe they like Nash or Nowitzki or even if they get a kick out of Cuban acting like a petulant teenager in the stands, then this whole ordeal will be great for "business."
<snip>

Since when does "small" equivocate to "great?" How big were your informal polls? Were they really large enough where "some" should be translated into "great?"

Can you put a number on "great for business," or on "astronomical," as it concerns the ratings of the Lakers' season opener? Give us something to compare to when the numbers actually do come out.

Hitman · 08-28-2003, 01:00 PM

Sure Jeremiah.

When you are dealing with a business that deals with television contracts worth more almost a billion dollars, a "small" gain can mean "millions of dollars." "Millions of dollars" for any business is "great" for that particular business.

When you are dealing with a sport that has billions of fans, a "small" gain can means "millions of fans." "Millions of fans" for any sport is "great" for that particular sport.

As far as the meaning of the term "astronomical," I will say this. The rating of that game vs. the Mavs on opening night will be larger than many, if not all of the playoff games on TNT last year. Many of the playoffs games struggled to gain a 2.0 rating. So if the Mavs-Lakers games on October 28th gains a 3.5 (which I think it will -- I think it will probably do a minimum of 4), then that would be considered "astronomical" in the the realm of the a regular season basketball game on TNT.

My informal polls were not significant in the number of people participating, but they will be significant when you see the rating for that opening night game.

denig · 08-28-2003, 01:11 PM

I do not understand this argument. I believe this is a fair assessment of what Cuban said:

We are a 'train wreck ' mentality, addicted to sensational 'reality tv'. With this indictment and the ensuing news media blitz it will generate, the NBA becomes part of the 'reality tv' sensation and sensationalism, thereby generating an immediate interest, on the public's part, in visually experiencing 'Kobe', by watching him play, in the NBA. Some watchers will be intrigued (because the NBA has an exceptional product) and will stay to watch and spend another day.

This seems simple, straight-forward and certainly true. What part of this statement seems inaccurate? And if it is accurate, what's 'the beef'?

thebac · 08-28-2003, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Drbio

Quote:

Originally posted by: mikeinrowlett
The attitude will change when the trial starts.

I have to agree. Plus, it is a known sociological fact that poll respondents will give answers to a pollster that are more politically correct rather than answer honestly. Don't summarily dismiss them, but take these polls with a huge grain of salt.

Well put. In fact, those people probably believe that they will not be more likely to watch because of the trial (b/c they like to think of themselves as decent people), but the success of reality TV crap belies their answers. We'll see what happens when the season starts.

(Plus, as dude pointed out, I'd like to have this poll done scientifically and be able to see the survey instrument aka the actual questions posed.)

Findelker · 08-28-2003, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Drbio

Quote:

Originally posted by: mikeinrowlett
The attitude will change when the trial starts.

I have to agree. Plus, it is a known sociological fact that poll respondents will give answers to a pollster that are more politically correct rather than answer honestly. Don't summarily dismiss them, but take these polls with a huge grain of salt.

Absolutely correct!!!

Simply make a poll about the following subject: Do you like to have sex with children?

I bet if you ask 10.000 people, all of them will deny liking to have sex with children. So statistically there isnt any childabuse in our world.

politically correctness is very important with those polls.

Simon2 · 08-28-2003, 01:43 PM

I completely understand where Cuban is coming from. People will tune in to the Mavs vs. Lakers to see is Kobe can hold up to the pressure. A lot of those new viewers will be viewers that pay not attention to basketball. If the Mavs and Lakers can put up a exciting game that day. Maybe, just maybe, some of those new viewers will get interested and follow the NBA. Most likely, the Mavs vs. Laker game will get more fans than lose fans.

FineCubanCigar · 08-28-2003, 01:59 PM

FineCubanCigar · 08-28-2003, 02:03 PM

what american adult would admit to that on a poll? The fact is we are talking about Kobe and the L.A. lakers on a Mavs thread, His name is getting thrown all over the news, and so is the NBA. Any great buisnessman knows, any publicityu is good publicity. . . i for one really didn't know or care who O.J. Simpson was cause he was before my time, now he is infimous and synonimous with the nfl ... same with Kobe. Cuban hit the nail on the head, but the NBA can't admit the truth behinmd his comment, at least publicly[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Jeremiah · 08-28-2003, 02:08 PM

...

antiks · 08-28-2003, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Jeremiah

Quote:

Originally posted by: FineCubanCigar
what american adult would admit to that on a poll? The fact is we are talking about Kobe and the L.A. lakers on a Mavs thread, His name is getting thrown all over the news, and so is the NBA. Any great buisnessman knows, any publicityu is good publicity. . . i for one really didn't know or care who O.J. Simpson was cause he was before my time, now he is infimous and synonimous with the nfl ... same with Kobe. Cuban hit the nail on the head, but the NBA can't admit the truth behinmd his comment, at least publicly[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

OJ Simpson is synonymous with the NFL? How so? Maybe synonymous with Johnny Cochran, or synonymous with "rich people can buy their way out of criminal activities," but the NFL? Maybe I'm the one that's the space cadet.

OJ might not be synonomous with the NFL but I'm sure that everyone knows that OJ used to play for the NFL, which will always tie OJ and the NFL together. But the OJ thing happened way after he retired from the NFL.

One clear example besides the OJ one was the hype that Mike Tyson got after he came out of prison for his first fight, Everyone was tuned in or everyone was talking about the fight to see what Tyson was going to do. People that had no interest in Boxing were watching. Even today, Mike Tyson is the biggest draw and money maker to Boxing, and he was a rapist.

So everyone who says that money won't be generated because of Kobe's situation, and that the money won't somehow find its way into the NBA is not in tuned with how our society is today.

OutletPass · 08-28-2003, 02:57 PM

Actually, I put up this poll from ESPN just to see what people here were thinking now...and it appears that it's not too different on our board from the time Cube's remarks were made public.

The "red herring" in all of this, and it's what absolutely drives me crazy about ESPN sometimes...is that the "poll" was made up of 518 telephone calls...and that's all.

That's kind of a joke, at least to me, no matter which side of this argument that you take.

I'll just have to see what happens with the ratings and all...I just think that the proof will be in the pudding (whether we're talking short term or long term impact on the NBA).

Although I HATE to see the NBA in the category of "reality TV" freakshows...Cube's was probably right on the money in his comparison. Sad, but true.

I just hope that one day this all dies down...and basketball becomes basketball again.

superheadcat · 08-28-2003, 03:16 PM

op, i suggest you put quotation marks around, and question mark at the end of, the title of the thread.

kg_veteran · 08-28-2003, 03:23 PM

Quote:

I'll just have to see what happens with the ratings and all...I just think that the proof will be in the pudding (whether we're talking short term or long term impact on the NBA).

Exactly.

Drbio · 08-28-2003, 03:55 PM

Oh come on. We all know that OJ is synonymous with Hertz rental cars. [img]i/expressions/moon.gif[/img]

OutletPass · 08-29-2003, 12:56 AM

Done deal...Superheadcat.

Chiwas · 08-29-2003, 04:16 PM

Quote:

I just hope that one day this all dies down...and basketball becomes basketball again.

Agree.

Unfortunately, pro sportsmen are prone to scandals, or the media to hype them.

Even if Cuban is right about his overrated statement, sports should be only that, sports, not "reality shows".

kg_veteran · 08-29-2003, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Even if Cuban is right about his overrated statement, sports should be only that, sports, not "reality shows".

I agree.

u2sarajevo · 08-29-2003, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: kg_veteran

Quote:

Even if Cuban is right about his overrated statement, sports should be only that, sports, not "reality shows".

I agree.

I think I am about to cry, overcome with joy.....

I agree also.