How about this for Ben Wallace?

[4cwebb]

Originally posted by: dude1394
Agreed... .The question would be is if he would actually be the person to put the mavs over the top against shaq/kobe...duncan...??...

I don't know.... Certainly dennis/wallace were difference makers but only in the context of a team already either loaded... Maybe he would work..

At any rate, I'd probably give up jamison for him. But no more than that.

Fair point re: Rambis. I'll admit that I didn't pay as much attention to pro basketball as I do now, so I didn't realize that Rambis played so little per game.

And, while you might only give Jamison, I would guess that Cuban would give Jamison and another quality player (maybe Finley) for a guy like Wallace.

[kg_veteran]

I know I'm walking into this thread late, but I had to point this out.

Other than Ben Wallace, the Pistons really don't have any outstanding defensive players. In fact, other than Ben Wallace, they really don't have any very good defensive players. Last year they did, in Michael Curry and Cliff Robinson, but this year they really don't. Yet, they look to be a very good defensive team again this year.

Just some food for thought.

[Murphy3]

but, he wouldn't make much of a difference on the cowboys defensively.
[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/img]

I don't think people realize how much a really, really good interior defender would help out any team

let me add something...actually, most people do realize this..but, for some reason there's a couple that don't

[LRB]

Originally posted by: Murphy3
but, he wouldn't make much of a difference on the cowboys defensively.
[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/img]

I don't think people realize how much a really, really good interior defender would help out any team

let me add something...actually, most people do realize this..but, for some reason there's a couple that don't

Wow Murphy if it's so obvious that Ben would turn the Mavs into a defensive powerhouse, then why is it so hard for you to come up with any arguments other than "it's obvious" or "it's my opinion" or "it's my opinion that most people believe this"? Why is there no answer how Ben would make a difference when if he left his man to block a shot that all the other team needs to do is pass the ball to Ben's man for a layup. Without the Mavs getting down their defensive rotations. At best Big Ben would just force another pass on help D and not get beatup as bad by Shaq and Duncan when guarding them as our other defenders do. Of course I'm open to hearing arguments how this wouldn't be the case.

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
I know I'm walking into this thread late, but I had to point this out.

Other than Ben Wallace, the Pistons really don't have any outstanding defensive players. In fact, other than Ben Wallace, they really don't have any very good defensive players. Last year they did, in Michael Curry and Cliff Robinson, but this year they really don't. Yet, they look to be a very good defensive team again this year.

Just some food for thought.

KG I haven't gotten the opportunity to see Detroit play yet this year. They do appear to be doing very well as a team defensively from looking at the box scores though. And I would agree that Ben is probably the only very good defender on the team. However I would be willing to be that the rest of the team is probably playing good team D and making their rotations for the most part. If the Mavs could learn to play good team D then they could take more advantage of a great lowpost defender. However, without the rotations being there on defense, the team will be vunerable when the post defender leaves his man to help on D. Still Ben or any other premier defender would definitely make improvements to the Mavs defense. But would it be enough to make up for what we would have to give up to get them? Without the Mavs learning to play better team D I would say no.

[Ummmmm Ok]

I have read this thread and the more and more I think about it, I just don't see HOW you can get Ben Wallace from Detroit. I have ran and reran trades trying to come up with something that would Please both sides and it just ain't there. Wallace is to their team as to what Dirk is to our team. How do you trade away your Franchise player? So without further crapola, this is the closest thing I could come up with:

Dallas trades:
SF Eduardo Najera (6.7 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 1.0 apg in 23.0 minutes)
C Shawn Bradley (6.7 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 0.7 apg in 21.4 minutes)
PG Steve Nash (17.7 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 7.3 apg in 33.1 minutes)
Dallas receives:
PF Ben Wallace (6.9 ppg, 15.4 rpg, 1.6 apg in 39.3 minutes)
SG Bob Sura (7.3 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 3.2 apg in 20.6 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -16.9 ppg, +4.9 rpg, and -4.2 apg.

Detroit trades:
PF Ben Wallace (6.9 ppg, 15.4 rpg, 1.6 apg in 39.3 minutes)
SG Bob Sura (7.3 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 3.2 apg in 20.6 minutes)
Detroit receives:
SF Eduardo Najera (6.7 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 1.0 apg in 48 games)
C Shawn Bradley (6.7 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 0.7 apg in 81 games)
PG Steve Nash (17.7 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 7.3 apg in 82 games)
Change in team outlook: +16.9 ppg, -4.9 rpg, and +4.2 apg.

Now I know the first thing you are going to say, how in the hell could you trade away Nash? Well you have to give something to get something. There is nothing on the Dallas team that Detroit needs other than maybe Walker aka Instant Offense but his contract is so high they wouldn't do it. Bradley would flourish in the (L)eastern Conference so theres no problem there. Najera is a throwin. (don't shoot me chiwas)

Now you wanna know the trade kicker? Detroit wouldn't do this trade because Nash would bolt come summertime and than they would only get Bradley and Najera for Wallace. On top of that Dirk would be an emotional train wreck and no telling if he would "ever" recover.

Hmmmm, I wonder if Cuban could just resign him for the full MLE next summer and than just SLIDE some money into an offshore Account in the Caymans aka Under the table for Nash? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

[kg_veteran]

KG I haven't gotten the opportunity to see Detroit play yet this year. They do appear to be doing very well as a team defensively from looking at the box scores though. And I would agree that Ben is probably the only very good defender on the team. However I would be willing to be that the rest of the team is probably playing good team D and making their rotations for the most part. If the Mavs could learn to play good team D then they could take more advantage of a great lowpost defender. However, without the rotations being there on defense, the team will be vunerable when the post defender leaves his man to help on D. Still Ben or any other premier defender would definitely make improvements to the Mavs defense. But would it be enough to make up for what we would have to give up to get them? Without the Mavs learning to play better team D I would say no.

I guess my point was that teams somehow tend to play better team defense when they have a great individual defender (or two or three) in the mix. Sure, the rest of the Mavericks have to make good defensive rotations and play good team defense. But Wallace would certainly make that proposition a lot easier. Wallace is a mixture of Bradley's shotblocking with tremendous athleticism, strength, and quickness. Wallace would be the great eraser. Everybody plays better defense knowing they have a player like that behind them. Heck, that's why the Mavericks play their best defense with Bradley in the middle, even though he's not on Wallace's level defensively.

Your initial argument was that Wallace really wouldn't improve the team substantially on defense. I think that's just incorrect. On the other hand, the question of how in the world Wallace could be acquired is a legitimate one. I don't think there's any way Joe Dumars would give up Wallace unless Nowitzki was in the return package.

[Murphy3]

I guess my point was that teams somehow tend to play better team defense when they have a great individual defender (or two or three) in the mix.

Especially when it's a center.