Poll: Which of these two scenarios would you prefer?

[kg_veteran]

I think the only way that the Mavericks will agree to trade Nash in a S&T is if the Lakers send Payton back. That said, which of these two scenarios would you prefer?

[Bayliss]

It's tough. And I like Nash. But Harris's window makes the opportunity much too great. I voted for Nash to leave.

[grndmstr_c]

I'm assuming here that everything I've heard about Harris' upside is true, so I voted for option #1. Payton's got more left in him than last year would indicate, I think. I also would guess that he could be a good defensive tutor for Harris, and his contract is far better than Nash's next one will be, especially if Harris is as NBA-ready as many have said.

Payton/Harris
Quis/Stack
Fin/Stack/Najera
Dirk/Fortson/Najera
Shaq/Bradley/Najera

That's a hell of a team.

[StvNash13]

Don't trade Nash. Don't trade Nash. Don't trade Nash.

The Mavericks will deeply regret it if they lose Steve Nash. He just came off of his best season, he's #1 in assists per 48 minutes, and his offensive talent covers his defensive lapses. He will be a starter for us and one of the best PGs in the league for another 4-5 years. Harris has great potential and I want him to stay, but it's it's him or Nash I won't think about it. Nash stays. And we definitely are not bringing Paytons sorry ass to Dallas. Don't repeat LA's mistakes. I'd rather ask for S&T for Derek.

[MavsFanFinley]

I voted to send Nash on his way.

People keep talking about how this team will fall apart without him, but when do we plan on moving ahead? It's not like he has that many years left so we have to face the change at some point.

[aexchange]

bye bye stevie. it was fun while you were here, but i'm tired of seeing peons like jeff mcinnis and troy hudson go off for career highs every time they play you.

i'm tired of you running out of steam midway thru the 3rd quarter b/c you can't hack it.

[Drbio]

Originally posted by: MavsFanFinley
I voted to send Nash on his way.

People keep talking about how this team will fall apart without him, but when do we plan on moving ahead? It's not like he has that many years left so we have to face the change at some point.

I tend to agree and Payton could mentor his young padawan to replace him.

[MavKikiNYC]

Nash go bye-bye.

[Jeremiah]

What makes you think that Payton could tutor anyone in a way that they would actually learn what he's trying to teach? Because he's a former All-Star? A former 7,8,9, however many years it was that he was on the All Defensive team? He might be the best teacher in the world, but he's yet to prove it, of course, he probably has not HAD to do so yet. However, I've yet to see the fruits of a great, or former great player teach a teammate anything good. Not Stockton, not Hakeem, not Ewing. The last two were brought to their last teams in hopes that when they stopped, or while they were stopping, they'd be great teachers to the guys that would eventually replace them. Didn't happen. It was said for the last 5-6 years of Stockton's career that Utah was THE place for a young PG because Stockton could groom him to be a good pg. I give you Harold Eisley as Exhibit A, and DeShawn Stevenson as Exhibit B. There was another fella in there as well, but his name escapes me.

Payton might be a great teacher, and he might be willing and able to do so now, but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you two. I suppose I'll believe it when I see it.

Oh, and I'd prefer the second one. Not that the Mavs couldn't win with the first one, but I don't suspect the games would be as fun for me to watch. Give me the second one over the first everyday and twice on Sundays.

[sike]

as much as I hated it, i too voted to send Nash packing.....i dont think payton would take a great interest in bringing up the young point harris though...Payton as always come across as far too selfish a player to have other's interests at heart....But if this Harris is more than a shoot first point(as some have indicated) then I would love to see him develop.

BUT I WOULD REALLY LOVE TO SEE NASH AND SHAQ PLAY TOGETHER....IMAGINE ALL THE DUNKS!

[grndmstr_c]

Payton might be a great teacher, and he might be willing and able to do so now, but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you two. I suppose I'll believe it when I see it.

I see no reason to think he'd be any worse of a tutor than Nash, or maybe you'd like to make a list of the stable of future all-star points he's trained. Bottom line is that Payton knows how to play the point, especially on defense where he's always been a terrific help defender in addition to his formerly standout man-to-man skills. I don't believe he'd have to be a great teacher for some of that to rub off not only on Harris but also on Quis, just the same way that I'd expect Steve's offensive style to rub off on the youngsters if he stays.

[sike]

Originally posted by: grndmstr_c

I see no reason to think he'd be any worse of a tutor than Nash, or maybe you'd like to make a list of the stable of future all-star points he's trained. Bottom line is that Payton knows how to play the point, especially on defense where he's always been a terrific help defender in addition to his formerly standout man-to-man skills. I don't believe he'd have to be a great teacher for some of that to rub off not only on Harris but also on Quis, just the same way that I'd expect Steve's offensive style to rub off on the youngsters if he stays.

if "rubbing off" is what was meant by bringing up the young Harris I agree, Harris could learn much from either Nash or Payton. But if one meant by teaching going out of one's way by taking an active role to help train up a future replacemnet.....i dont think Payton would be too hot on this idea....Nash on the other hand is as unselfish as they come and (my guess) would most likely be the first vet to befriend Harris....

[grndmstr_c]

Nash on the other hand is as unselfish as they come and (my guess) would most likely be the first vet to befriend Harris....

I'd agree with that for sure. As for Payton, I wouldn't be inclined to worry too much about it for the simple fact that he's only got one year left on his deal. We'd probably have to address pg again next season because Harris, if he is as NBA ready as they say, will probably be ready to start in a year or two and I wouldn't want to risk resigning Payton to another contract where he'd potentially have to move to the bench in the middle of it (unless he said in advance that he wanted to stay as a backup - otherwise that could get ugly). Who knows, though. Maybe Jon will have turned into a player by then. And even if he hasn't the Mavs wouldn't have anybody else they'd have to worry about resigning next year so they'd be able to go up to the MLE on a backup point. I'd wager they could find a solid one for that amount of money.

[ddh33]

To me, that deal is simple:

Nash and Howard for Shaq and Payton
or
Harris and Howard for Shaq

I don't know how much I want Shaq anymore. Man, I feel like a fool for saying that. I just don't think we emphasize enough all the little things that go into building a championship team...

[sike]

Originally posted by: ddh33
To me, that deal is simple:

Nash and Howard for Shaq and Payton
or
Harris and Howard for Shaq

I don't know how much I want Shaq anymore. Man, I feel like a fool for saying that. I just don't think we emphasize enough all the little things that go into building a championship team...

of course neither of these deals would work...

ddh, i am afraid(not the goose bumps type of afraid...more of the "slightly nervous cause I'm about to take a test I have not studied for" afraid [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] ) that you are in danger of focusing too much on the loyality of the matter and not on the big picture.....plus there is nothing to prove that Shaq would disrupt this team's ability to get the "little things" done......unless you can give some valid reasons as to why Shaq screws their chances....I dont see him as a threat to team chemistry...everything I've read has him as the glue of the locker room and a player favorite.....

[ddh33]

I know those deals don't work. I was saying that those players were what the trades boiled down to in my mind. The rest (Walker, L8, and Delk) doesn't matter to me in the least.

You're right. I am focusing on my loyalties to these players. I know that.

I do think some concerns about Shaq are genuine:
Shaq isn't the greatest teammate in the world. The guys may like him for the most part. That doesn't make him easy to play with though.
There are weight issues.
There are health issues.
There are motivation issues.
One of my main concerns is the money issue. I happen to believe that virtaully everything in sports is about money. I don't think there would be a problem in LA right now if Shaq had gotten his money. And it's not just about the money to Shaquille. It is the fact that a teammate he despises is about to get all of it, while he gets none.
I'm afraid that Dallas is being used because of Mark's deep pockets. Suddenly Shaq wants to play here about the same time he wants a max extension and can't get it in LA. It's a little suspicious to me.

Now, there are reasonably good explanations for all of this. I don't want to be guilt of seeing things only from one perspective. I think Shaq is the most dominant player in the league. Maybe when that kind of guy becomes available, you don't ask questions?

Or maybe when that kind of guy becomes available, you ask why? I don't see Duncan or KG getting offered in trades. Is it really the Kobe thing? If so, I want to dig a little deeper about why Kobe feels the way he does. I want to know why the Lakers sided with him.

In the end, I want to check everything out. You can't afford to blindly trade for a player without seeing what it is going to cost and what the consequences are going to be.

I feel like I know about the core of this team. I think it has proven to be a contender. I just feel like it isn't the worst alternative to bring back the core guys with the new rookies, while making a move for a better center and going to work with them.

[Poindexter Einstein]

Shaq wants the money. Why is that debated? Yes he is wanting a deal. No question.

And LA doesnt want to pay it. But their roster is decimated - they have to trade him and use him to restock.

But Mark said he will pay it. No one else has said that.

Whats the mystery?

[kg_veteran]

Many of you have picked up on the reasons that I posted this poll. At first glance, you'd automatically tend to say, "Keep Nash!" But if you think it through, it's not so clear-cut, as the 50/50 split indicates.

Keeping Nash certainly has its advantages, such as maintaining continuity at the PG spot and the guy who is already familiar with and comfortable with running the offense in Dallas. It also has its disadvantages. Whether he's worn down now or not, Nash doesn't have that much more left in the tank than Payton does, and you have to wonder when Nash's play begins to dip considerably. Some would argue that the descent has already begun.

Personally, I think the Mavs probably have to include Nash in the deal. The Lakers may not be able to pry Nowitzki away, but they have to at least get Nash to save face and make the deal.

[Jeremiah]

Originally posted by: grndmstr_c

I see no reason to think he'd be any worse of a tutor than Nash, or maybe you'd like to make a list of the stable of future all-star points he's trained. Bottom line is that Payton knows how to play the point, especially on defense where he's always been a terrific help defender in addition to his formerly standout man-to-man skills. I don't believe he'd have to be a great teacher for some of that to rub off not only on Harris but also on Quis, just the same way that I'd expect Steve's offensive style to rub off on the youngsters if he stays.

Ahh, but this isn't about Nash being able to teach. I wouldn't expect him to be able to anyway, though, if that answers your questions. My point is that I think it is mularkey to expect a vet, any vet, to be willing and able to help groom his replacement. Part of it I imagine has to do with the rook not being able to learn as well. As for "some of it," I suppose it depends upon what your expectation of "some of it," is. I wouldn't expect much of an improvement on defense or offense for Harris resulting from the presence of Payton or Nash. I might be incorrect, but I'll believe it when I see it.

I still take the second deal over the first one, everyday, without blinking an eye.

[grndmstr_c]

As for "some of it," I suppose it depends upon what your expectation of "some of it," is.

Are you Bill Clinton?

[Jeremiah]

No. That's a bit of stretch to correlate the two statements too.

If you mean, "just a little bit," or, "something that translates into one more steal or stop in a non-important situation, over the course of a season," then I'll agree with that. If you mean it to mean, "a couple of 3 steal games," or, "a key stop in the playoffs," or "1 more steal per game over the course of the season," then I don't think that much will rub off on anyone because of Gary.

[grndmstr_c]

Geez, Jeremiah. Take a joke will ya'?

[Jeremiah]

Apologies. I've got dragons breathing down my back, and my ability to spot humor has been skewed.

I ranted in the beginning, and it's one I've been on for some time. I'm just going to leave it at that.

[uberfan]

If those are my only two choices, the first scenario hands down.

[XERXES]

I chose the proven commodity.

[EricaLubarsky]

Payton sucks. Thats the only reason I picked #2.

[Cubans_Posse]

payton's days are over and nash is nearing his downward slide
i dont like either trades

[Jamisonite]

I vote that i want nothing to do with shaq...i think its hilarious that just about everyone on this board bashes him while hes in LA but now that he could be a maverick everyone loves him....the only way i trade for Shaq is if we get rid of Stack AND Walker in the deal

[dirno2000]

I really don't want to trade Harris. Generally it's better to get rid of a guy a year too early than a year too late so reluctantly, I would trade Steve.

Of course my opinion of Devin is based solely on highlights and testimony. I'm looking forward to seeing him play against China this week. They're vulnerable to quick guards so I expect him to be in the lane all night.

[grndmstr_c]

I wonder how many people who voted for the deal involving Nash would still feel the same way if we were getting Fisher in a S&T instead of Payton?

Or for that matter how many people who voted for the Harris deal would change their mind if we were getting Fisher instead of Payton?

[jayC]

I don't care get him, here the big man in the middle solves a lot of problems. Just keep Dirk out of it , and I am happy. I'd perfer the team oriented fisher as opposed to GP.

[sike]

Originally posted by: jayC
I don't care get him, here the big man in the middle solves a lot of problems. Just keep Dirk out of it , and I am happy. I'd perfer the team oriented fisher as opposed to GP.

totally agree