Gives a Mavs fan hope - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Bayliss · 03-17-2002, 02:51 PM

From DB.com

<< After giving up 132 points in Portland, Nellie unveiled a new and rather desperate defensive twist: How about Adrian Griffin and Greg Buckner on the floor together?
They are supposed to be each other’s replacement parts, interchangeable cogs in the “let’s-always-have-at-least-one-guy-on-the-floor-who-can-play-defense’’ wheel. But especially in the second quarter, the Mavs were able to stay afloat because of Griff and Buck.
And the defense in the third quarter, said the Mavs, is how they pulled away.
“Our defense saved us in the third," said Dirk Nowitzki. "We can't allow that in the playoffs. We have to clamp down during the whole game not just the third quarter." >>

Nellie will probably use Buck and Griff on the court at the same time during the playoffs. Both provide good man to man defense and are solid rebounders for their size (Buck got 9 rebounds last night).

The quote by Dirk tells me that he "drifts" defensively. Sometimes he'll come out with fire and play great man to man defense and other times he is lackadaisical (sp?) on D. And that was evidenced by the GS game last night. He was beaten several times and did not challenge shots in the first half. Came out in the second half and was really moving. Had several defensive boards and didn't let the other power forwards/centers get "off" like they did in the first half. That gives me hope. I think in the playoffs you will see the defense by the Mavs (and Dirk especially) that was displayed against Golden State in the 3rd quarter.

Your thoughts?

kg_veteran · 03-17-2002, 02:58 PM

I think you will see more of Buck and Griff on the floor at the same time in the playoffs, depending on who the Mavs are playing. Johnny Newman also played inspired defense in the second half against Jamison. I know that Nelson likes to have as many offensive options as possible on the floor, but in the playoffs, Dallas will have to take advantage of matchups like they did with Nowitzki and LaFrentz in the third quarter, and leave defensive players in to clamp down on the other team, rather than simply have 5 offensive players on the floor. Let's hope Nellie will get the rotation into playoff form soon...

Drbio · 03-17-2002, 05:14 PM

Buck and Griff on the floor together in the playoffs...good idea, but let's read into this a bit. If they are both on the floor, it means they both are on the post-season roster. If so, what does that do for Bradley, Wng, Esh, TAW, etc? Who doesn't make it?

Murphy3 · 03-17-2002, 05:15 PM

i know what you mean bayliss..
but what will help be a better defender is better pressure by the mavs guards.. they apply little pressure on opposing guards..making it easy to throw an entry pass into the low post..
also, both fin and nash get burned repeatedly and this requires dirk or lafrentz to help out..when they help out, well, their man is open underneath.

however, just more defensive intensity by dirk at all times will be huge.

it's a learning process for him..the good thing is that he is learning

Drbio · 03-17-2002, 05:55 PM

not only that murph, but when the Mavs guards don't apply pressure, that opens up the opponents low post game and Dirk and Raef usually get into foul trouble soonafter.

mick · 03-17-2002, 05:59 PM

Drbrio,
Reading into Nellie's recent comments in the DMN, he is now down on Bradley and Wang. So, whether or not that means anything....

TheKid · 03-18-2002, 12:19 PM

You know I disagree with that... Actually having a strong person protecting the basket is suppose to help the perimeter players. They're able to pressure the perimeter more because they know they're backs are covered and also, players are less likely to drive to the basket. Look at how people don't drive the basket when Shaq is there because they know he's going to throw it back down their throats. The same goes for Mutombo, Duncan and Robinson. That's what Bradley USE to give us but we don't utilize him like that. Granted our perimeter needs to be defending better but our low post defenders needs to pick it up a bit also. Now La Frentz does give us a shot blocking threat which is cool, but all in all our inside defense puts NO fear in ANYONE'S heart! That's why we have people always trying to drive to the basket because we DO NOT have a presence inside that strikes fear in ANYONE's hearts... NONE.. No one to clog up the middle.. Look at Portland, they really don't have a shot blocker but you don't see people driving the middle on them (probably because they're afraid of getting robbed on the way to the basket with those thugs) but we NEED for someone anyone to step up and be that player. I think La Frentz has the ability, but it's obvious he feels MUCH more comfortable on the perimeter.

Murphy3 · 03-18-2002, 01:59 PM

of course having strong inside players helps the perimeter..but having a guards that get driven by all the time makes the interior defense even weaker and more suspect.

TheKid · 03-18-2002, 02:39 PM

I disagree with our guards being weak on the perimeter. I think they do as fine as job as they can. What I'm saying is having that weak interior exploits it more often when someone goes by them. Put Avery Johnson out there and he won't be as tenacious as a defender as he wasn in San Antonio and someone would ask why? We all know why. I've said it before for instance with Kobe. When Kobe is playing with Shaq he's AMAZING defending someone up, when Shaq is not there, people go by him as much as they do any of our guards on the perimeter.

Having a tough interior defense doesn't only help the perimeter defense, it changes the entire scheme of how teams are going to attack you.

ocelot_ark · 03-18-2002, 03:03 PM

Our guards would get beaten much less if they had someone back there they could depend on. Please lord, if we're going to have an offensive team, a SMALL defensive team, and a Nellie's doghouse team, Why not have a rebounding/shotblocking/zone playing team. Buck/Fin/Dirk/Raef/Bradley. That's what I want to see, right there. No one would outrebound us, no one. Fin could bring the ball up, Buck guards the opposition's point...just for 10-15 minutes a game, that's all I'd like to see it.

TheKid · 03-18-2002, 04:04 PM

I agree Ocelet with what you say about our guards not getting beat as much.

Murphy3 · 03-18-2002, 06:20 PM

thekid, to be honest..fin is simply as poor of a defender as anyone else on the team.
i don't get to see enough games around the league but i really don't recall seeing someone getting beat off of the dribble as much as him.
yes, dirk needs improvement inside..i will admit that but damn, fin getting roasted on the perimeter is just as obvious

mavsfan4 · 03-18-2002, 06:23 PM

Dirk picks up silly fouls because he is burned alot. Plain and simple, no excuse. You notice he gets a lot of fouls from behind or trying to lab the ball away, most cases he is behind cause he has gotten burned.

Murphy3 · 03-18-2002, 06:37 PM

he had two offensive fouls...not exactly from getting burned
he had a ghost foul where he had all ball on a block... not exactly getting burned
he had a foul coming over to stop a layup playing helpside "d".. not exactly getting burned..

and i'm not really sure where the other foul came from

does he need to improve his defense? hell yes.
was mike's or dirk's or any of the mavs defense the reason for the loss against the lakers? no.

was the scheme the problem? it's arguable that it could be a questionable scheme to run against the lakers.

mavs_afroman · 03-18-2002, 06:54 PM

Mavsfan4 is right. Dirk does pick up some silly fouls like that but most of them come when when he has had to switch on someone else's man after they get beaten. Dirk gets beaten his fair share too but it looks worse because everytime a guard gets beaten he's usually the only to rotate over and help Then, either he has to foul the guard or stop him but his man is left for a wide open dunk cause nobody rotated on his man (NVE has gotten some nice steals by waiting for this pass but Nash and finley usualy don't) but either way it looks like it was Dirk's man who scored.

ocelot_ark · 03-18-2002, 06:55 PM

I swear Murph, it's like your talking to a brick wall. He just doesn't get it.

I will point out that Fin was playing D on Kobe the last few plays and actually did a great job.

Bayliss · 03-18-2002, 07:20 PM

<< Dirk picks up silly fouls because he is burned alot. >>

Silly fouls, yes. But whenever he gets in foul trouble is because of his offensive fouls. Not his defensive fouls.

Last night against LA he had 5 fouls (2 offensive). Learn the game before you speak.

Murphy3 · 03-18-2002, 08:03 PM

i agree with you ocelot..fin had a good game defensively last night.. so did dirk..so did the whole damn team.

the mavs just didn't hit enough shots in the third when they could have built a lead...

yes, sometimes dirk picks up a silly foul or two..but very rarely.. let's get real here...it's not like dirk is in foul trouble often.. not that often at all for the position he plays

Drbio · 03-18-2002, 08:45 PM

The offensive fouls point is well taken, but I hope he doesn't change. Dirk is beginning to show a little aggresiveness and when he learns that he can be aggressive and not take crap off anyone in the league...he will explode. Dirk will be one of the top 5 players in the league for years.

mavsfan4 · 03-18-2002, 09:56 PM

Murhy....so did Dirk? How so if his man was the 1 shooting(and making) the two 3's that killed us? I just do not get it, you may want to re-write that.

Bayliss, I know the game as good as anyone on this board. I assure you that, and the fact is that Dirk picks up silly fouls after getting beaten.

Bayliss · 03-18-2002, 10:21 PM

<< Bayliss, I know the game as good as anyone on this board. >>

Joe-Joe? Sorry to bother you but this is your 6 am wake up call. Time to rise and shine.

Murphy3 · 03-18-2002, 11:21 PM

you really don't understand basketball at all, do you?
i didn't think so.

ocelot_ark · 03-19-2002, 12:16 AM

If Dirk played such horrible "D," then God's gift to basketball, Robert Horry must have played half the game with his eyes closed. Seeing as how Dirk shot 4-7 threes and all...

It's not like they're professionals or anything and they make tough shots every once and a while.

mavsfan4 · 03-19-2002, 01:22 AM

Horrys team won the game, and Dirk is a great offensive player. You surely can't be comparing the 2 as far as offense go are you Ocelot. Dirk is a scorer, and you expect him to have games like that. You just don't expect Horry to knock down two 3's like that in crunch time, and still win the game.

Epitome22 · 03-19-2002, 01:23 AM

Horry was on Nowitzki last night like white on rice. Dirk's foul status also prevented him from being able to combat Horry's physical play.

Big Boy Laroux · 03-19-2002, 09:28 AM

<< You just don't expect Horry to knock down two 3's like that in crunch time, and still win the game. >>

ok, if you truly KNEW basketball, joe joe, you would know that horry has been a crunch time player his entire career (houston and LA). it seems that he ALWAYS hits the big shots (when kobe doesn't take them). he is a big reason they continue to win, especially in the playoffs.

TheKid · 03-19-2002, 09:31 AM

Please Murph, if Fin is a terrible defender on the perimeter what does that make Nash. Nash gets blown by WAY more than Fin does, so you're saying we have the worst two defending guards in the NBA? Like I've said before, NEWMAN has been the only consistent defensive player we've had this year, MORE than Griffin whether you want to hear it or not, but that's the truth. Also Fin normally gets a tougher assignment. For instance the first half Griff played Kobe, down the stretch Fin got that matchup, would you prefer to guard Kobe in the first half when he's not being as aggressive or towards the end of the game when YOU KNOW he's going to have the ball. I know I'm not the greatest basketball mind in the world but conventional wisdom tells me this, if Fin was the WORST defender why in gods name would he be on the court at the end of the game getting that assignment?

mavsfan4 · 03-19-2002, 10:33 AM

I know that the guy hit big shots all the time, but against the Mavs you cannot expect to win if you leave him wide open to hit those shots. Dirk left him wide open for two very good looks on 3's and he knocked them both down. Leaving him for the 1st 1 cool, but for 2?

The Crippler · 03-19-2002, 10:49 AM

just saw the replay of the game, and on horry's first three, Dirk was not on him. It was Finley trying to run at him late. Just a point of clarification.

mavsfan4 · 03-19-2002, 11:02 AM

That's because Dirk had already lost his man, and Finley did what he was supposed to do. He ran at Dirks man, there's no argument that Horry was Dirks man, so what does it matter who ran at him?

TheKid · 03-19-2002, 11:05 AM

Actually I think they were in a zone, I don't know if it was man to man on that first three. The last three I believe was man to man. I could be wrong though.

The Crippler · 03-19-2002, 11:17 AM

Kid, both were a zone. On the first three, Dirk wasn't even on Horry's side of the court. Raef was, Bradley was in the middle and Dirk was on the other in the 2-1-2. Second one was the opposite.

TheKid · 03-19-2002, 12:00 PM

Oh Ok, cool. Either way, I didn't think that last three was Dirk's fault anyway, I was more with the logic that they should have hacked Shaq.