Goodbye playoffs, Pacers

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: Fidel

After seeing a better video of what happened (the one that I had before was kinda small) I have to strongly disagree. Wallace acted like a total punk and is very lucky he got away with just a five game suspension. Not only did he overreact after a hard foul and shoved Artest. He also continued to go after Artest and even through a towel after him. He did provoke him right until the bottle was thrown. Looking at what the Pacers got Wallace should have gotten much more then just five games. He was one of the main reasons the situation escalated.

You can disagree with me, but you're wrong. Yes, he acted like a punk, but his suspension is in line with what you're suspended for shoving a player in such a manner. I guess you could suspend every player 20 games or whatever when they push another player in a dead ball situation. If you do that, Josh Howard would be starting a 20 game suspension tonight along with Kevin Garnett.

Is that what you want to do?

Yes, the situation escalated, but you have to look at what each individual player did to come up with their penalty. You must also look at what each fan did to come up with their penalty.

Wallace pushed a player - 5 games
Artest wrongfully attacked a fan IN THE STANDS - suspended the rest of the season
The fan threw a cup of beer or ice on Artest - Possible assault charge? Possibly being banned from ever attending another game in Detroit?

Perhaps you can argue slightly more than 5 games...but no more than 7. Even that would be too much.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: LRB

I don't think that you have to or should just take it. However jumping the guy and beating his face in is not the appropriate response either. Calling the authorities on the jerk is not just taking it which would be the appropriate response. If someone throws beer or ice tea on you purposefully, he has assaulted you and should be arrested. However your physical well being is not in jeapordy to necesitate an overtly violent response. Getting thrown in jail will almost assuredly be worse than the whopping that you'd dish out and you don't have to worry about going to jail yourself or endangering innocents.

Artest didn't beat his face in. As a matter of fact Artest didn't hit anyone in the face that night other than the guys who stepped on the court. SJax was the one swinging haymakers. What your saying is the logical thing to do but you can't expect someone to think things through like that within a couple of seconds.

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

Artest didn't beat his face in.

Thankfully someone grabbed Artest's arm just before he let loose on him. I suppose we should give Artest credit for not being quicker in getting off his punches. It's obvious that he was cocking his right arm back to pund the guy.

As a matter of fact Artest didn't hit anyone in the face that night other than the guys who stepped on the court. SJax was the one swinging haymakers. What your saying is the logical thing to do but you can't expect someone to think things through like that within a couple of seconds.

No, of course we can't expect a sub human idiotic thug such as Artest to think as an actual human with some sense of right and wrong.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Thankfully someone grabbed Artest's arm just before he let loose on him. I suppose we should give Artest credit for not being quicker in getting off his punches. It's obvious that he was cocking his right arm back to pund the guy.

LOL. Artest had plenty of time to get a hit on the guy. It only took Stephen Jackson a second to get one off.

No, of course we can't expect a sub human idiotic thug such as Artest to think as an actual human with some sense of right and wrong.

What exactly is your defintion of a thug? That word has been thrown around lately in the wrong context. It's just you don't really see many thugs who are worth over a millionaire dollars.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs



Artest didn't beat his face in. As a matter of fact Artest didn't hit anyone in the face that night other than the guys who stepped on the court. SJax was the one swinging haymakers. What your saying is the logical thing to do but you can't expect someone to think things through like that within a couple of seconds.

I no more expect Artest to think that through in a couple of seconds than I would expect him to wait until the end of a close game to learn how to shoot 3 pointers. In other words, how to act in a similar situation should have been considered and planned for long before Friday night. The NBA offers seminars for players to expressly deal with issues such at this.

BTW the replays I've seen it looks like Artest threw several punches at the guy who he 1st attacked and at least landed a few. However even if all Artest did was charge the stands and tackle the guy to wrestle with him, he deserved the suspension for the rest of the year. Artest was the 1st player into the stands and escalated the incident to a whole new level. That sort of behavior cannot be tolerated. If Artest can't do the job as an NBA player, which includes not charging into the stands if someone throws beer on you, then he can go off and produce records or wash dishes for a living.

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

LOL. Artest had plenty of time to get a hit on the guy. It only took Stephen Jackson a second to get one off.

What exactly is your defintion of a thug? That word has been thrown around lately in the wrong context. It's just you don't really see many thugs who are worth over a millionaire dollars.

I suppose he did have time to get a punch off. That makes things even worse...Even after getting to the guy and grabbing him and shoving him to the ground Artest still thought that it was a good idea to hit him. Thankfully someone grabbed his arm from behind.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: LRB

I no more expect Artest to think that through in a couple of seconds than I would expect him to wait until the end of a close game to learn how to shoot 3 pointers. In other words, how to act in a similar situation should have been considered and planned for long before Friday night. The NBA offers seminars for players to expressly deal with issues such at this.

BTW the replays I've seen it looks like Artest threw several punches at the guy who he 1st attacked and at least landed a few. However even if all Artest did was charge the stands and tackle the guy to wrestle with him, he deserved the suspension for the rest of the year. Artest was the 1st player into the stands and escalated the incident to a whole new level. That sort of behavior cannot be tolerated. If Artest can't do the job as an NBA player, which includes not charging into the stands if someone throws beer on you, then he can go off and produce records or wash dishes for a living.

Artest didn't throw a punch at the first guy at all. Stern even said that Artest was suspended for going into the stands and for his other antics this year. Most of the replays the media outlets show are showing Artest as a beast. As an animal so of course they are going to show him as if he's beating a guy to death but FoxSouthWest shows Artest on the overhead view and all he does it grabs the guy to the ground and asks him did he throw the beer. What Artest did was wrong. No doubt, but if all Sjax got was 30 games then Artest should've got 20 because he atleast had been provoked. Stephen Jackson was never provoked other than witnessing Artest get a beer thrown at him 2 times.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: Murphy3

I suppose he did have time to get a punch off. That makes things even worse...Even after getting to the guy and grabbing him and shoving him to the ground Artest still thought that it was a good idea to hit him. Thankfully someone grabbed his arm from behind.

LOL. Artest had no intention of hitting that guy. If he did he could've because he had atleast 5 seconds to do it. Artest isn't this thug that goes around starting fights with people like you guys think. Not saying he isn't mentally crazy but he knows who to mess with and who not too. You saw how he didn't do at thing to Wallace because he knew better. I honestly think he's fooling all of us and is just promoting his album by that's just my opinion. He's definately getting plenty of promotion for free.

[Fidel]

Originally posted by: Murphy3

You can disagree with me, but you're wrong. Yes, he acted like a punk, but his suspension is in line with what you're suspended for shoving a player in such a manner. I guess you could suspend every player 20 games or whatever when they push another player in a dead ball situation. If you do that, Josh Howard would be starting a 20 game suspension tonight along with Kevin Garnett.

Is that what you want to do?

Yes, the situation escalated, but you have to look at what each individual player did to come up with their penalty. You must also look at what each fan did to come up with their penalty.

Wallace pushed a player - 5 games
Artest wrongfully attacked a fan IN THE STANDS - suspended the rest of the season
The fan threw a cup of beer or ice on Artest - Possible assault charge? Possibly being banned from ever attending another game in Detroit?

Perhaps you can argue slightly more than 5 games...but no more than 7. Even that would be too much.

If shoving Artest was all Wallace did I´d agree with you. But oviously he did more then just shove him. He was still trying to get to Artest long after the shove which stirred up the fans even more. He then even threw a towel in Artests direction. He clearly did alot more in the situation then just shove Artest. 10 games minimum would have been more appropriate.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs


Artest didn't throw a punch at the first guy at all. Stern even said that Artest was suspended for going into the stands and for his other antics this year. Most of the replays the media outlets show are showing Artest as a beast. As an animal so of course they are going to show him as if he's beating a guy to death but FoxSouthWest shows Artest on the overhead view and all he does it grabs the guy to the ground and asks him did he throw the beer. What Artest did was wrong. No doubt, but if all Sjax got was 30 games then Artest should've got 20 because he atleast had been provoked. Stephen Jackson was never provoked other than witnessing Artest get a beer thrown at him 2 times.

It really doesn't matter if Artest threw a punch at the 1st guy or not. Artest charged into the stands 1st and brought the whole sordid situation to a much higher level of escalation that ever before has been present at an NBA game. Artest is damn lucky to get off as light as he did.

Now personally I would have suspened Stephen Jackson for the rest of the season, but I would have suspended Artest for at and entire 82 games, playoffs and preseason. Furthermore I would have made Artest undergo pyschiatric treatement for his emotional problems and be certified by a team of psychiatrists as being mentally compentent to handle great amounts of stress before I'd let him back in the NBA. What Jackson did was horrible, but Jackson did not escalate things as much as Artest nor does Jackson have the ugly history that Artest does. Also Artest clearly is not mentally right and needs treatment.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: LRB

It really doesn't matter if Artest threw a punch at the 1st guy or not. Artest charged into the stands 1st and brought the whole sordid situation to a much higher level of escalation that ever before has been present at an NBA game. Artest is damn lucky to get off as light as he did.

Now personally I would have suspened Stephen Jackson for the rest of the season, but I would have suspended Artest for at and entire 82 games, playoffs and preseason. Furthermore I would have made Artest undergo pyschiatric treatement for his emotional problems and be certified by a team of psychiatrists as being mentally compentent to handle great amounts of stress before I'd let him back in the NBA. What Jackson did was horrible, but Jackson did not escalate things as much as Artest nor does Jackson have the ugly history that Artest does. Also Artest clearly is not mentally right and needs treatment.

Actually it does matter. You shouldn't get suspended for an entire season for going into the crowd. Vernon Maxwell wasn't. You definately should be suspended but not for an entire season especially since what JO and SJax did were much worse. No one is diagreeing with you that Artest needs help. You think suspending him is going to give him that help? I'm not saying that it is or isn't but it seems like you are under the impression that he was suspended in order to get help.

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: Fidel

If shoving Artest was all Wallace did I´d agree with you. But oviously he did more then just shove him. He was still trying to get to Artest long after the shove which stirred up the fans even more. He then even threw a towel in Artests direction. He clearly did alot more in the situation then just shove Artest. 10 games minimum would have been more appropriate.

So shoving a guy and trying to get at him is worth 10 games? Based upon what? Can you give us anything in the past that would indicate that shoving a player and then trying to get at him is worth 10 games? How many times has someone shoved a player and then tried to get at them?

[dirno2000]

There are about 5 or 6 Artest threads so this may have been mentioned, but is there any way the Artest suspension stands considering that Vernon Maxwell was only suspended 10 games by the same commissioner for punching a fan? My guess is no.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: dirno2000
There are about 5 or 6 Artest threads so this may have been mentioned, but is there any way the Artest suspension stands considering that Vernon Maxwell was only suspended 10 games by the same commissioner for punching a fan? My guess is no.

I didn't really compare the two but I did mention how is Artests suspension with an entire season while Maxwell didn't even get that and he actually went into the stands and hit a guy. I know he didn't get an entire season for hitting those guys on the court.

[sike]

Indy won tonight....beating the celts