Has Irk Nowitzki been over-hyped by the media? - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

dude1394 · 05-12-2002, 12:09 AM

<< Dude..you're getting a Dell. (sorry) >>

You mean versus an apple????

Mavs4Fin · 05-12-2002, 02:17 AM

who cares about those other teams, they arent down 3-1 and they're defense versus their man every game havent been this terrible

IsDirkEvenPlaying? · 05-12-2002, 02:38 AM

Why do some of you refuse to just open your eyes and see the truth? It's very obvious, Dirk has not only sucked up the game in each of the first three, to one degree or another, but he also did nothing today except for sporadically having a couple short periods where he looked like he was going to come to life. Oh yeah, he did repeatedly get burned by Webber, and by guards blowing right by him for easy buckets.

Oh, and he did miss the free throw that would have pretty much made the series 2-2, and the easy finger roll that would have done the same. Get real people. Stats don't tell the whole story. And his stats aren't even good to begin with, when you consider the field goal % and turnovers, and what his guys have done on the opposing side.

Dirk has SUCKED this series people. Why don't you just admit the obvious? He has S....U....C....K....E...D............ SUCKED SUCKED SUCKED! And Nellie has sucked just as bad. Open your eyes and stop lying to yourselves because your heart wants to believe something different than what your eyes see. It's clear as day, the Mavs would be 2-2 or 3-1 if Dirk had showed up.

ArcticBlast · 05-12-2002, 03:27 AM

<< Why do some of you refuse to just open your eyes and see the truth? >>

It can't be the truth if it is merely a matter of opinion. Since stats don't tell the whole story, which I agree with by the way and was simply using them because you brought them up, there is a subjectiveness to whether Dirk did well the last game or did poorly. Accept that some of us don't agree with you.

<< the Mavs would be 2-2 or 3-1 if Dirk had showed up. >>

Did my eyes decieve me or where there 5 players on that floor at any given time? Am I missing something, or were there several coaches on the bench? Finley missed few shots that would have won the game for the Mavs as well. The one before Bibby's airball, the tip on the inbounds play at the end of regulation, the late deseration shot at the end of OT? Was Nick not burned on several several SEVERAL occations? Did Steve not turn the ball over 9 times, most of which were mental mistakes on his part? I'm not blaming any of them individually for the loss. The game is a TEAM effort and the TEAM came up short.

Everyone on the team made mistakes and the Mavs lost. It is silly to blame it on one player.

seelenjaeger · 05-12-2002, 05:12 AM

I think that "there is no player in the league that can guard him" talk is the very problem ...

There´s only a small difference between averaging some 35-40 points on the game Dirk has and averaging 25-30 ... it´s the percentage of shots that are falling.

Mavs are taking shots all the time. Some of them just fall, some of them don´t. It´s not too much about the defense imho ... Dirk just lost its touch - and he´s not strong enough mentally at the moment to find it back. He´s losing a mind game. It´s not that he´s taking bad shots all the time, he´s just missing them ...

I don´t think the Kings proved that Dirk is guardable. They did the best to stop him by double-teaming him, playing him aggressive and stuff, but I simply don´t think that would be enough to stop him. It increases the number of TO´s he commits, it decreases this shooting percentage, but it shouldn´t drop to the sub .400 it´s currently at, not even to sub .450.

I do expect another series to start now.

A series, when there´s nothing left to lose.
A series, when Dirk not only tries to take the next step, but simply PLAYS bball. No more thinking, no more responsibility (which also lasts heavily on Nash, who seems to have to prove something on his own).

Let´s come back to Mavs Ball.

Mavs Ball is about FUN.

It´s about devastating opponents.

It´s not a "Kings-two-years-ago" ball ... it´s MAVS style.

Don´t think about an exit from playoffs, not about a possible end of season or last game ... just go out there and kick ass.

ILikeDrPepper · 05-12-2002, 05:12 AM

Some people are being a little too critical (don't think I need to mention any names). Was Dirk supposed to score 50 points, grab 30 rebounds, get 15 assists, and 7 blocks, every game this series?

He's 23, this is only his second year of being in the playoffs, he has four teammates that are capable of scoring 30 points a game on any given night. With that said, you're wasting your time placing all the blame on Dirk and Nelly.

The Mavericks (as a team) have played terrible defense through out this entire playoff run. Right now, they're being outplayed by a superior foe, that has more playoff experience and wants to win more than the Mavericks.

It's not over yet, the Mav's could still pull out a miracle. So, stop crying like a typical Dallas fan that just jumped on the bandwagon and isn't satisfied with the results.

Have you forgotten how terrible the Mav's were just three years ago? Do 10 game losing streaks ring a bell? Just be happy we made it to the playoffs, and stop crying about performances from particular players.

seelenjaeger · 05-12-2002, 05:26 AM

actually 25 / 12 / 2 / 1block and steal on >.450 shooting and >.400 3pt shooting is right what i expect ...

that´s my statline I ask him to average ... if he doesn´t, he´s playing poorly imho

stars are gonna rated by the brightness of their light every night...

seelenjaeger · 05-12-2002, 05:27 AM

but i´d change that line in a second for the Mavs winning ... to bad it just don´t happen

MavKikiNYC · 05-12-2002, 07:19 AM

Dirk over-hyped by the media? Yeah, probably. A little, probably. But that's their job. That's what they DO. Not much originality of thought among them, so when an interesting development like Dirk comes along, they all start buzzing and humming and vibrating until it gets to the point where the story amounts to hype, then over-hype.

Drbio · 05-12-2002, 09:39 AM

even the over-hyped angle is subjective people....

I Like Dr. Pepper- welcome to the board....cool name.

Murphy3 · 05-12-2002, 09:46 AM

is dirk overhyped by the media?
I'd say no. People were basing their opinions off of his performances in the regular season and in the post season.

this series, he hasn't had his touch. He hasn't lived up to doing what HE'S accustomed to doing. He's not living up to what WE'RE accustomed to seeing from him. He has UNDERACHIEVED so far this series.

however, this does not change what he did to get to the point in the media's eyes or in our eyes. Does it change how you feel about him and where he is as a player right now? That is up to you

MFFL · 05-12-2002, 10:03 AM

Dirk got hot against Minnesota and a lot of national press started talking about him. But most of the stories revolved around his massive improvement and his unlimited potential. I don't think any of them were predicting that Dirk would carry the Mavs to the Finals this year.

dude1394 · 05-12-2002, 10:09 AM

<< actually 25 / 12 / 2 / 1block and steal on >.450 shooting and >.400 3pt shooting is right what i expect ...

that´s my statline I ask him to average ... if he doesn´t, he´s playing poorly imho

stars are gonna rated by the brightness of their light every night... >>

You are in dreamland.... Look at REALITY!!!!

So Dirk is supposed to...

Shoot a higher percentage than Shaq and Duncan and Peja and Nash and Finley. All the while having .7 less rebounds than you expect. Are you 7 years old or something? If an nba team wants to shut you down, you WILL be shut down. The mavericks are losing this game in the backcourt not the frontcourt.

First Three Second Round games..

Dirk - 21.3 PPG, FG% .389, RPG 11.3
Shaq - 21.3 PPG, FG% .448, RPG 13.0
Duncan - 27.0 PPG, FG% .373, RPG 16.7
Kobe - 25.7 PPG, FG% .473, RPG 4.0
Webber - 24.3 PPG, FG% .485, RPG 12.3
Peja - 15.3 PPG, FG% .354, RPG 8.0
Nash - 19.0 PPG, FG% .429, RPG 3.0
Finley - 23.0 PPG, FG% .442, RPG 6.3

dude1394 · 05-12-2002, 10:12 AM

<< Dirk got hot against Minnesota and a lot of national press started talking about him. But most of the stories revolved around his massive improvement and his unlimited potential. I don't think any of them were predicting that Dirk would carry the Mavs to the Finals this year. >>

Very good points. I don't think I can recall the floodgates of media types claiming that the mvas would win even the WC let alone the whole thing because of dirk. But his improvement this year (and even the last game's 7 assists) has been tremendous.

MavKikiNYC · 05-12-2002, 10:13 AM

<< Dirk got hot against Minnesota and a lot of national press started talking about him. But most of the stories revolved around his massive improvement and his unlimited potential. >>

Yeah, that sounds like a reasonable account.

Maybe a couple of posters on this board, maybe myself included to a degree, began to OVERESTIMATE what he'd do this year.

Watching him against the Kings, however, he has some very 'rich target areas for improvement'.

dude1394 · 05-12-2002, 10:16 AM

I have an HONEST question about the value of assists.

So Dirk had 30 points last night. A bad shooting night for sure. But then there are 7 assists to go with that. Are they worth 1,2 points each?? If one then he was responsible for 37 points, if two then he was responsible for 44.

Maybe it is somewhere in-between. In looking at the shot chart in the DMN today, I noticed that in the first half Weber had 7 layups and two more shots inside the paint. I don't for a minute think this was because he was like Shaq and bulled his way into a dunk.

So the question is about our defending the pick and roll I guess. I was at the game, did anyone see a breakdown on the tube about what was going on??

MFFL · 05-12-2002, 10:22 AM

In hockey an assist is worth as many points as a goal. I would think that a rough estimate would be the same in the NBA. Maybe an assist should be worth a little more in the NBA because if Nash throws a perfect pass to Dirk and Dirk is fouled on the shot attempt, then Nash WON'T get an assist but the play could still net 2 points. Plus a player can give an assist on a three point play (with the foul or with the 3 point shot).

dude1394 · 05-12-2002, 10:33 AM

did you see any analysis of the pick and roll and why they were so effective with it??

Bayliss · 05-12-2002, 10:41 AM

<< did you see any analysis of the pick and roll and why they were so effective with it?? >>

Because our guards could give a damn about stopping penetration and our post players have limited lateral quickness. So pick and rolls expose two other major areas we need to improve on defense.

David · 05-12-2002, 11:31 AM

I don't think Dirk played his best game. He shot what, 9 for 28 or 30something %. Didn't Allen Iverson get the MVP last year while shooting a similar % for the entire year?

As far as Nellie not coaching very well, didn't he manage to call a play, at the end, to get a VERY close in shot by his best player? The players have to execute. It looked like Nelson coached like he usually does. That is, he put his players in a position to succeed. Several of Nelson's moves didn't work out but I think had the players on the floor executed, the Mavs would have won.

Bottom line, it was a team loss.

seelenjaeger · 05-12-2002, 11:42 AM

dude - NO, I´m not 7 years old ...

and if you take a look at what I´m expecting ... 25, 12, 2, 1, 1 ... it´s not THAT far off what he´s actually performing at ...

your comment "if a NBA team wants someone to be shut down he IS shut down" is not about reality - proven any given day on most given matchups ... it´s very hard to shut down a guy who´s a premier player, and it is and will be hard to shut down Dirk ...

I still expect that Dirk hits around .450 of his shots ... if he don´t, he´s underachieving. Simple and straight. My expectations for this guy are high because of his possibilities.

Still, it´s a different thing to blame him for the loss, or to call him "over-hyped". He´s delivering numbers 97% of the NBA would be damn happy to have, just a matter of if he´s the one guy to be happy with it or not.

I think he is not, and I think we can agree on that.

And I do think this will change. THIS year.

MavsFanFinley · 05-12-2002, 09:10 PM

With that said, you're wasting your time placing all the blame on Dirk and Nelly.

I don't think that's the case. Nash's turnovers, Fin giving Bibby too much room, lack of defense (inside/outside), no rebouding are definitely all key.

But, it's been preached all season long to ride your best player, it's time for said player to lead the way...well, he hasn't done a very good job of that in this series and some want to talk about it.

Again, he isn't overhyped, but clearly struggling.

Russell · 05-13-2002, 10:41 AM

Look, Dirk hasn't played great this series. It's a learning process. When you go deep into the playoffs, there will be scarring. Those scars teach lessons. When Dirk's 26 and he has two NBA rings, no one will even remember this season, much less this series. Appreciate the travails and defeats along the way. Each one is a seminar on "How to Win an NBA Championship."

Murphy3 · 05-13-2002, 10:54 AM

fin sucked, nash sucked, dirk sucked, nve sucked ass, ..many of the role players sucked

it was a team loss. However, dirk is the best player on the team and didn't step up consistantly during the stretch. One good play, one bad..much like the rest of the team.

But, dirk is the best player on the team and should take slightly more of the blame than the rest of the players..
as being the best player on a very talented team, that is part of the burden he must carry

Mavs4Fin · 05-13-2002, 04:08 PM

fin sucked?

MFFL · 05-13-2002, 04:12 PM

Fin sucked - just less than others.

Epitome22 · 05-13-2002, 04:14 PM

At least Fin has shown up on the offensive end for most of the series. Unlike a few other Mavs I won't mention.

Murphy3 · 05-13-2002, 04:16 PM

why do you have to make it a pissing match AGAIN?

Drbio · 05-13-2002, 04:58 PM

Anyone who thinks that Fin sucked is a moron or is blind.

Purple&Gold · 09-02-2006, 07:06 PM

Bump, its great to see Crow eaters.

dude1394 · 09-02-2006, 08:27 PM

Interesting...was this really my first post?

Belated thanks for the welcome to the board.

EricaLubarsky · 09-02-2006, 08:55 PM

I like octor Pepper

Rhylan · 09-02-2006, 11:22 PM

I was there, 5/11/02 against the Kangs. That game sucked. Webber fouled out, Mavs lost in OT (I think). I do remember Dirk missing a close one to either tie or win late.

It was also the day I officially became a DFW resident. Graduated the day before, came up here .. also had an extra ticket to the game, sold it to a dude on eBay who couldn't read and thought the game was a night game. Once he figured out it was a day game (on the day OF the game), he stopped answering my phone calls and stiffed me for $60. Punk!

I wonder if he reads this board... hey dude! You owe me $60.

fluid.forty.one · 09-03-2006, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seelenjaeger

It´s the kind of killing almost any team would take in a second, that gave Iverson a MVP and loads of guys like Stackhouse loaded contracts.

this made me laugh... little did we know...

mqywaaah · 09-03-2006, 07:29 AM

Irk will bounce back!

fluid.forty.one · 09-08-2006, 12:21 AM

This article was obviously spot-on. I mean Dirks numbers havent climbed year after year or anything, and he didnt single handedly bring his team to the finals.

Wish we woulda kept that Trailor guy.

DevinHarriswillstart · 09-09-2006, 03:10 PM

Irk is no more because of Avery's defense. I haven't heard that insult in a long time. Who cares about defense though when it comes to individual play though? I mean, the worst defensive player in basketball won MVP two years in a row now. Maybe Dirk Would get it if he was called Irk again. More character maybe?