Give the Spurs credit

[nah-vit-ski]

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

Imagine Dallas vs.

Denver
undermanned Phoenix
Utah
Cleveland.

Absolute cakewalk. Sure I'd be happy about winning a title, but I'd recognize that's pretty damn easy for a path to an NBA championship.

Well we got an 8th seed, awhich is suposed to be easier than all of those. I'm not talkng about you but a lot of people just say "it was a bad matchup"

An 8th seed doesn't beat a number one just because they're a "bad matchup" no matter what anyone says.

Oh yeah by the way I do like to see the Spurs lose especially at the hands of the Mavericks but I don't "hate" them as much as I suspect many do and they're a hell of a team.

[nashtymavsfan13]

I respect them as a good basketball team, but I still hate them for it.

[Dirkadirkastan]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

How would you feel about Dallas versus:

Denver
undermanned Phoenix
San Antonio

How do you like us in that situation?

Honestly, do we get to the third round?

Honestly.

Honestly? I honestly believe you dismiss ANY positive remark about this current Mavs squad as homerism, and crown ANY negative remark (except perhaps one regarding Dirk's perimeter play) as intelligent, objective criticism. I hope I don't need to explain to you how much of a fallacy that is.

Don't defend your BS with the Mavs' recent early exit. You've been doing it ever since I signed up on the forum, and I suspect you probably have ever since Steve Nash donned a Phoenix jersey.

None of the other 28 teams have a reason to worry me. We were 67-12 against those chumps and 2-7 against that other team. Whatever the reason for it is, be it Dirk or Avery or the small backcourt or psychology or whatever, the Mavs play terribly against one and only one team. There is every bit of evidence in the world to believe it's a matchup problem. "1 vs. 8" is an abstraction and doesn't really bring anything to the table.

Denver, Phoenix, San Antonio? Bring it on! We beat two of those teams in the 2006 playoffs didn't we?

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

Honestly? I honestly believe you dismiss ANY positive remark about this current Mavs squad as homerism, and crown ANY negative remark (except perhaps one regarding Dirk's perimeter play) as intelligent, objective criticism. I hope I don't need to explain to you how much of a fallacy that is.

Lot's of that happening on the off-the-cliff express.

[Knickfan]

F*** the Spurs. They'll get no credit from me for what they've done in the playoffs. They've been the beneficiaries of so many ridiculous suspensions/calls/no-calls/injuries/cancerous daughters (I don't mean to degrade D-Fish with that last one but it's true) that it's absolutely disgusting.

The Mavs came two games away from a title last year despite not having a single advantage the Spurs have had this year (and, in fact, the Mavs were actually on the short end of the deal most of the time, having 3 players suspended and having to play 8 on 5 for most of the Finals).

Titles are what count, but this Spurs title run is unimpressive and really downright disgusting in a lot of ways.

You can say what you want about the Spurs and I'm not a Spurs fan BUT if Ginobli doesn't make that STUPID foul last year, the Spurs would have been in the finals again. Would they have beat the Heat??? That I don't know but the Spurs weren't the benefit of any favortism last year. Now Ginobli (the idiot) did foul Dirk but if he moved out of the way (like Bowen did), then Spurs go to the Finals NOT the Mavs.

The only team who truly had a chance to beat the Spurs was Phoenix and that's it. The Jazz I don't care if Fisher was there and was 100%, they weren't beating the Spurs. The Spurs somehow turn it on when they're supposed to. People thought this Cleveland series was going to be a series because the Spurs lost to them twice during the regular season, well it has meant NOTHING because other than last game when the Spurs played pathetic, the Cavs STILL couldn't beat them.

You don't have to give the Spurs credit, you can hate them, but there's no denying they have been the best team in the NBA over the past five years considering this will be their 3rd championship in that period of time.

[V2M]

Originally Posted by Knickfan

... BUT if Ginobli doesn't make that STUPID foul last year, the Spurs would have been in the finals again...

A. No... they would have been in the WC Finals.

B. If Dirk hadn't missed that point-blank layup in the final seconds of Game 5, Spurs would have lost 4-1 to the Mavs in the 2nd round while having home-court edge... likely leading to major revamping of their team in the off-season!

C. What's your point again?!

[Knickfan]

A. No... they would have been in the WC Finals.

B. If Dirk hadn't missed that point-blank layup in the final seconds of Game 5, Spurs would have lost 4-1 to the Mavs in the 2nd round while having home-court edge... likely leading to major revamping of their team in the off-season!

C. What's your point again?!

A. They would have been in the western conference finals and LIKE the Mavericks they would have advanced

B. Missed shot is DIFFERENT than someone making a boneheaded decision to foul.

C. My point in even pointing that out was, someone said the Spurs were ONLY there because they were getting "favorable" luck or calls or something to that effect. My point is that's not true.

[SeattleMavsFan]

i have respect for the Spurs as they play a fantastic team game. but i hate them lol. duncan is THE biggest whinner in the NBA. he whines on EVERY SINGLE call that is against him or the Spurs. He is one of the best players to ever play the game though. Ginobli is HIGHLY overrated. He's good but he's not a god like people seem to think he is. Plus he's a big flopper. Parker is a great point guard but I can't stand his attitude. He gives off an attitiude that he is better than everybody because he's french and he's with Eva. Don't get me started on Bruce Bowen. He is one of the most overrated players of all time. He can't play offense and he is not as good as defense as people think. He's also a huge flopper and he also committs more defensive fouls that are not called than any player I've ever seen.

I have to agree with the some of the posts above. The Spurs always seem to get breaks. They somehow always get to play the easy teams in the playoffs. I don't think they benefit from bad calls that much as a team but they definately get better treatment. They are definately NOT underrated. In fact, most writers and people are constantly riding the cocks of the Spurs.

The Mavs on the other hand, almost always get the short end of the stick. They almost always never get calls for them. They always get the tougher schedule. They are one of the most underrated teams in the history of the NBA. they won 67 freakin games and people still don't say they are good. regardless if they have a title or not, the mavs are a good team. i think it's obvious that david stern does not like Cuban so he purposely makes things difficult for the Mavs.

[Dirkadirkastan]

Originally Posted by SeattleMavsFan

Don't get me started on Bruce Bowen. He is one of the most overrated players of all time. He can't play offense and he is not as good as defense as people think. He's also a huge flopper and he also committs more defensive fouls that are not called than any player I've ever seen.

Most other NBA players get calls against them if they poke and jab their man half as often as Bowen does on defense. But Bowen's got a trick up his sleeve. Instead of reaching out with his hands, he stands six inches from your face and throws his elbows forward. This way his forearms are vertical, so he can grab and fondle you all he wants wherever he wants while getting credit for "defending his space". Hell, he could probably grab your wrists and headbutt your face from that distance he still wouldn't get called for a foul.

[samoan-maverickII]

Good Job Finley

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by Knickfan

You can say what you want about the Spurs and I'm not a Spurs fan BUT if Ginobli doesn't make that STUPID foul last year, the Spurs would have been in the finals again. ...

You don't have to give the Spurs credit, you can hate them, but there's no denying they have been the best team in the NBA over the past five years considering this will be their 3rd championship in that period of time.

I won't argue with your larger point because I agree with it. Over the last 5 years, the Spurs have been the best team. One of their biggest advantages, though is that they've been allowed to play dirty.

The "if's" though, rub me wrong. The Spurs did lose in overtime. At home. In game 7. They deserved their L last year. Every series, every year has some ifs. That's part of the game.

IF the mavs were allowed to play in last years finals as rough as the Spurs always play, then . . . or IF the Spurs were ever called like the Mavs were in last years finals, then . . .

IF Avery doesn't make that STUPID decision to not play a center against the Warriors . . .
IF the Suns didn't make that STUPID decision to get suspended

[MascisMan]

Originally Posted by Knickfan

B. Missed shot is DIFFERENT than someone making a boneheaded decision to foul.

Sorry I disagree with this. I don't think Ginobili tried to foul Dirk. I think he was going for the block and fouled him on accident. So maybe it was a boneheaded decision to try and block Dirk but I don't think Manu had the intention to foul him.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Knickfan

A. They would have been in the western conference finals and LIKE the Mavericks they would have advanced

B. Missed shot is DIFFERENT than someone making a boneheaded decision to foul.

C. My point in even pointing that out was, someone said the Spurs were ONLY there because they were getting "favorable" luck or calls or something to that effect. My point is that's not true.

A. Stupid assumption

B. No it's not. They're both mistakes. It's not like Manu knew what he was doing. He messed up trying to get a block, just like Dirk messed up trying to score a putback.

C. I never said that. I said the Mavs run last year was much more impressive given all the stuff they had to fight through. The Spurs this year, meanwhile, were given EVERY advantage. They'll get no respect from me. Let's see them win one with 3 players suspended over the playoffs and a Finals opponent with a superstar who shoots 22 FT's a game. Oh, and make em run through the #1 and #2 seeds back to back like the Mavs had to last year.

[Flacolaco]

I wonder if there has ever been such a "comfortable" playoff run. Did the fans ever fear? Maybe that one day after the Suns tied the semis up 2-2? But even then, they knew the suspensions were coming. They never trailed in a single series, they never got grossly outplayed. Did they have a single "oh sh%t moment" the entire way?

(edit: ok I guess they lost that first game to Denver didn't they? I don't count that)

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

I wonder if there has ever been such a "comfortable" playoff run. Did the fans ever fear? Maybe that one day after the Suns tied the semis up 2-2? But even then, they knew the suspensions were coming. They never trailed in a single series, they never got grossly outplayed. Did they have a single "oh sh%t moment" the entire way?

(edit: ok I guess they lost that first game to Denver didn't they? I don't count that)

Spurs routinely lose game 1s. Its nothing new.

[rabbitproof]

Way to beat the 10th best team in the league, champs!!

[aquaadverse]

Originally Posted by SeattleMavsFan

The Mavs on the other hand, almost always get the short end of the stick. They almost always never get calls for them. They always get the tougher schedule. They are one of the most underrated teams in the history of the NBA. they won 67 freakin games and people still don't say they are good. regardless if they have a title or not, the mavs are a good team. i think it's obvious that david stern does not like Cuban so he purposely makes things difficult for the Mavs.

If you have to ask for respect, you will probably will never get it. And you're correct. David Stern screwed you by forcing you to play the eight seed with home court advantage. The national perception that the Mavericks are a talented, soft team that cracks under pressure, is entirely without a shred of evidence.

[DelNegro]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

I wonder if there has ever been such a "comfortable" playoff run. Did the fans ever fear? Maybe that one day after the Suns tied the semis up 2-2? But even then, they knew the suspensions were coming. They never trailed in a single series, they never got grossly outplayed. Did they have a single "oh sh%t moment" the entire way?

(edit: ok I guess they lost that first game to Denver didn't they? I don't count that)

No arguement from this Spurs fan. It was a pretty cushy ride, especially once the mavs got bounced. Going into the playoffs the Mavs were the only team that I thought could beat the Spurs, but even then the way the Spurs were rolling I still think, in my admittedly biased opinion, the Spurs would have won that series. Certainly I'd expect a lot of people here to disagree, and that's fine. It would have been a great series.

Phoenix was tough, but I truthfully wasn't that worried about them. The Spurs just match up with the Suns extremely well and even tossing out that game 5 the Spurs are 14-6 against them over the last 3 years. The Spurs were going to win that series suspension or no suspension.

Out of the 4 title runs this one was obviously the easiest, but at the same time I think you've got to consider that the Spurs are pretty good and do have the ability to make other teams look bad.

[DelNegro]

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

Way to beat the 10th best team in the league, champs!!

It was the 10th best team in the league who earned the right to face them. The title still counts the same.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by aquaadverse

If you have to ask for respect, you will probably will never get it. And you're correct. David Stern screwed you by forcing you to play the eight seed with home court advantage. The national perception that the Mavericks are a talented, soft team that cracks under pressure, is entirely without a shred of evidence.

He's not just talking about one round in the playoffs this year. In general, the Spurs seem to catch a whole lot more breaks than the Mavs. You need look no further than the fact that the Spurs benefitted IMMENSELY from a timely suspension in the playoffs compared with the fact that last year the Mavs had 3 players suspended, 2 of which came at critical times. That's the difference between the Spurs and the Mavs--luck.

[Janett_Reno]

Go here and watch the top 10 plays of the nba finals.

http://www.nba.com/finals2007/index.html

What is scarry is Ginobili and Parker have taken their game even higher. If they keep this up, the Spurs could be unstoppable against next year. This is why Avery want's us defense minded because the Spurs will destroy you, if you are not.

Number 10 where Gino crosses over and leaves his man and at the rim he can jump higher than anyone on the Cavs team except Lebron. Watch, how the Cavs just stand around and watch the Spurs, bascially the way we did with GS. Look at that pass from Parker to Duncan for a dunk. So easy looking. Gino dribbling between a man's legs to start a fast break. Gibson was on him guarding him and Gino just went thru his opponets legs and took off and made a lay up at the other end.

One play where Lebrong beat Gino and Lebron was off to the rim, where he scorred and Duncan fouled him. This is very important for the league, watch where Gino falls down, he pretends that Lebron just knocks him down. Gino got beat and knew Lebron was going to score, so Gino just flops down on the floor. I have seen some really great actors in my time and Kevin McHale was a great player and a great actor. Bowen has got pretty good. Parker has but Gino is great at this.

If Jordan had flopped over every play, he might not have ever lost a single basketball game. The problem is this, Gino borders on being a supertar, him and Parker and if you give a star or superstar the flopping call everytime, now these players turn into Kobes. You can't stop them, with the flop. Do not get me wrong, Gino has so much talent and is way up there on my list in the nba but him and many others, the refs need to really watch, because it could make the game very one sided or uneven. I give Gino credit, man he can fall and it looks like George Foreman knocks him out.

This is taught by Pops and just look how disipline and great this team is. Some of the plays by Parker are simply amazing and yes one he did walk but still. It all starts with Duncan as he opens up everything but then with Parkers and Gino's speed and now Parker can even shoot, they are very hard to stop.

To beat or even have a chance against this team, you must frustrate and slow Parker down. He is the head and Harris did this and we won in a classic last year but you let him run wild, no team in the nba can compete with them. Thank goodness Avery knows this and when we play them, Parker is the number one we go after and rightfully so. He destroyed the Cavs.

[Janett_Reno]

That beautiful pass to Duncan, was not Parker but Robert Horry. It was Gino, quickly passing to Horry at the top of the key, Duncan keeps his man on his hip, bumps him and rolls to the basket and Horry with a beautiful bounce pass for a dunk.

This play right here kills the nba against the Spurs. They have done that to us so many times and last year in the playoffs Duncan was great but Avery and Dampier knew about that play. Dampier started defending it better by bumping Duncan back or going back to his other hip, where he did not have a direct line to the basket.

This play should be in every single nba teams play book. It is basic and the man at the top of the key has the decision, is my man down low open. If not, swing it around or shoot but Duncan is the greatest i have ever seen on this play as he makes it look so easy.

[aquaadverse]

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

He's not just talking about one round in the playoffs this year. In general, the Spurs seem to catch a whole lot more breaks than the Mavs. You need look no further than the fact that the Spurs benefitted IMMENSELY from a timely suspension in the playoffs compared with the fact that last year the Mavs had 3 players suspended, 2 of which came at critical times. That's the difference between the Spurs and the Mavs--luck.

I'm aware of that. The general tone of "I can't pass that class because the teacher hates me" is a bit irritating. The delusional postings of an Asterisked championship, it was bad luck, it would have been a cakewalk and so on is pretty out there. Avery seems to be responsible for a large part of the recent bad "luck". I can't believe some people were screaming for Dirk's head. Reminds me of a friend. He used to get drunk and wreck his motorcycles. The accidents were never his fault.After the 3rd one he decided to do something about the problem. He quit riding bikes.

[Knickfan]

A. Stupid assumption

B. No it's not. They're both mistakes. It's not like Manu knew what he was doing. He messed up trying to get a block, just like Dirk messed up trying to score a putback.

C. I never said that. I said the Mavs run last year was much more impressive given all the stuff they had to fight through. The Spurs this year, meanwhile, were given EVERY advantage. They'll get no respect from me. Let's see them win one with 3 players suspended over the playoffs and a Finals opponent with a superstar who shoots 22 FT's a game. Oh, and make em run through the #1 and #2 seeds back to back like the Mavs had to last year.

You kill me.. It's a stupid assumption why because any assumption that doesn't assume success for a Maverick is stupid?? I can understand why you think it's a stupid assumption though, they had only been to the NBA finals two of the previous three years, I could see why it's a stupid assumption to think they would have made a third time in four years.....(In case you don't understand, that's sarcasm)

It WAS STUPID to try and block a LAY UP considering if he made it, and the Spurs inbound the ball and get fouled and make ONE free throw, the game would have been over. So yes it was STUPID to try and block the shot. If he even blocked it, the Mavs could have gotten the rebound and kicked it out for a 3 or something, anything could have happened. If you go back and watch the replay, BOWEN completely moved out the way to let Dirk make the layup. Now I'm making my assumption of saying it was stupid off what Popovich and Ginobli said. They said he SHOULD NOT have tried to block the shot.. So that's not ME saying it's stupid, it's the person who made the foul and his coach who said it, but hey, you think otherwise so of course that makes you right and you have how many championship rings???

You can talk about how unimpressive the Spurs road to the finals was all you want BUT the FACT is the SPURS have three championships over the past five years and the Mavs don't. So I'm not going to dispute OPINIONS, I'm going to simply discuss facts. You don't have to like the fact they won but they did and they won!

[MFFL]

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

It's not like Manu knew what he was doing. He messed up trying to get a block

Pops clearly and definitely told all his players during the timeout "NO FOULS". Manu should have had more basketball smarts than to even TRY to block that shot. Stupid is what stupid does.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Knickfan

You kill me.. It's a stupid assumption why because any assumption that doesn't assume success for a Maverick is stupid?? I can understand why you think it's a stupid assumption though, they had only been to the NBA finals two of the previous three years, I could see why it's a stupid assumption to think they would have made a third time in four years.....(In case you don't understand, that's sarcasm)

It WAS STUPID to try and block a LAY UP considering if he made it, and the Spurs inbound the ball and get fouled and make ONE free throw, the game would have been over. So yes it was STUPID to try and block the shot. If he even blocked it, the Mavs could have gotten the rebound and kicked it out for a 3 or something, anything could have happened. If you go back and watch the replay, BOWEN completely moved out the way to let Dirk make the layup. Now I'm making my assumption of saying it was stupid off what Popovich and Ginobli said. They said he SHOULD NOT have tried to block the shot.. So that's not ME saying it's stupid, it's the person who made the foul and his coach who said it, but hey, you think otherwise so of course that makes you right and you have how many championship rings???

You can talk about how unimpressive the Spurs road to the finals was all you want BUT the FACT is the SPURS have three championships over the past five years and the Mavs don't. So I'm not going to dispute OPINIONS, I'm going to simply discuss facts. You don't have to like the fact they won but they did and they won!

I have 0 championship rings. Just like you have 0. And every Spurs fan has 0. Last I checked, fans don't get rings. And how many rings a person's team possesses has absolutely, positively, undeniably NOTHING to do with how much that person knows about basketball.

Now, having said that, let me go ahead and sum up your entire post: you start by putting words in my mouth, followed by a wise crack about "sarcasm". Then, you go on to let my point about Manu completely fly over your head (followed by the aforementioned comment), then in your final paragraph you ramble on and on about the nature of fact vs opinion...

....in short, thanks for contributing a very worthwhile post to this discussion. Oh, and by the way, "that's sarcasm".

[Knickfan]

Pops clearly and definitely told all his players during the timeout "NO FOULS". Manu should have had more basketball smarts than to even TRY to block that shot. Stupid is what stupid does.

Thanks MFFL, I thought pretty much anyone (doesn't even have to be a coach or a player for that matter) with some basketball sense would know that he should have gotten out of the way but some people just want to dispute anything...

I have 0 championship rings. Just like you have 0. And every Spurs fan has 0. Last I checked, fans don't get rings. And how many rings a person's team possesses has absolutely, positively, undeniably NOTHING to do with how much that person knows about basketball.

Last I checked I never said I had any rings and I KNOW you don't but THAT was my point. Also I don't quite agree with your comment that saying how many rings a person posses has NOTHING to do with how much that person knows about basketball??? I think it's a DIRECT reflection about how much that person knows about basketball. I'm not talking about the secretary who works in the office for the Spurs who gets a ring either.. I referred to MANU and POPOVICH and you and I are on this board posting NOT on the sideline or on the court playing and NEITHER OF US have any rings, so you can call me crazy but I'm going to defer to those two on basketball knowledge. Maybe you may know more than them (clearly you think you do) and if you do I should expect to see you coaching in some capacity on the NBA level.

By the way I NEVER put words in your mouth... Please go back and READ what you wrote and I responded to what YOU wrote, unless you're changing your story now?

As far as your other "ramblings", I have no clue where you were going with that but whatever. I see you are the "judge and jury" about what's worth while and what's not but as I said before it seems to me it's NOT worth while because I don't agree with you. Glad you can be objective....