Bonds Indicted/Tested Positive for Steroids - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

TheBlueVan · 11-18-2007, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

The federal government should get their damn noses out of this. If baseball decides it wants to do something (which, as i have said, is not a smart thing), then baseball can do something. This is not a federal government issue.

I'd like to see the federal government get involved with marijuana use by NBA players. Give me a break.

steroids are illegal!!! where were you when the federal government, that should "stay out of this" cracked down on a huge number of steroid dealers and makers in mexico? its pretty obvious they care about it. high school kids use it too, should the federal government leave them alone too? theyre putting the same stuff into their bodies that baseball players are. so either the federal government, that makes the laws and regulates them, should crack down on high school students and MLB players making 50 million, or they should leave them both alone. do you want them to keep the kids off drugs, but let the adults, the ROLE MODELS, use them?

steroids physically harm and even kill people, just like other banned substances. marijuana does NOT equal steroids, im sorry.

TheBlueVan · 11-18-2007, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

BlueVan...baseball will never have steroids gone. That's what it comes down to.

well then lets just ignore it rather than trying to do something about it? im sorry but we're just going to have to disagree on this one. people will always use drugs like cocaine and other abusive substances, but that doesnt mean you just ignore it. maybe im just too naive or something, but i feel like this WILL make difference, maybe not a huge one in baseball, but at least it will serve as an example for other people that cheaters really dont win

dude1394 · 11-18-2007, 10:55 PM

You know I just really don't care much to be honest. If baseball wants to test for steroids then fine, test for steroids. Basketball, whatever. I just don't care...

With respect to the prosecution and lying under oath that is bad and I agree that it should be punished. What I've seen is that prosecutors get in there and can't prove the "crime" they are investigating so they get folks on obstruction of justice charges instead.

Some of the time the crime itself is dropped. It's like we'll investigate everything and force folks to testify to something that they may/may not remember correctly.

that's why I would have a complete memory loss to keep that type of gotcha from happening.

PS.. I assume that you were for bubba to go to jail as well.

chumdawg · 11-18-2007, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBlueVan

steroids are illegal!!! where were you when the federal government, that should "stay out of this" cracked down on a huge number of steroid dealers and makers in mexico? its pretty obvious they care about it. high school kids use it too, should the federal government leave them alone too? theyre putting the same stuff into their bodies that baseball players are. so either the federal government, that makes the laws and regulates them, should crack down on high school students and MLB players making 50 million, or they should leave them both alone. do you want them to keep the kids off drugs, but let the adults, the ROLE MODELS, use them?

steroids physically harm and even kill people, just like other banned substances. marijuana does NOT equal steroids, im sorry.

It is a tiny subset of the population that is harmed by steroid use. Nowhere near as large a subset as to warrant this amount of governmental oversight.

jthig32 · 11-18-2007, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

You know I just really don't care much to be honest. If baseball wants to test for steroids then fine, test for steroids. Basketball, whatever. I just don't care...

With respect to the prosecution and lying under oath that is bad and I agree that it should be punished. What I've seen is that prosecutors get in there and can't prove the "crime" they are investigating so they get folks on obstruction of justice charges instead.

Some of the time the crime itself is dropped. It's like we'll investigate everything and force folks to testify to something that they may/may not remember correctly.

that's why I would have a complete memory loss to keep that type of gotcha from happening.

PS.. I assume that you were for bubba to go to jail as well.

Yes, I most certainly was. Don't mistake my right-wing comment earlier as an indicator of my political leanings. I'm very much republican.

And Chum, as BlueVan pointed out, this particular thing has nothing to do with baseball. If you want to complain about the hearings they had where Palmeiro and Sosa and others were called to testify, fine. But this particular case had NOTHING to do with steroids, other than the distributor happened to be supplying to baseball players, among other athletes.

This is simply an investigation into an illegal distributor of a controlled substance. You can't possibly think the feds should stay out of something like that.

chumdawg · 11-18-2007, 11:16 PM

If it wasn't for baseball, the feds wouldn't give a shit. You can't get around that.

untitled · 11-18-2007, 11:18 PM

Why are we talking about steroids? The man is potentially going to jail for lying. Had he sucked it up and admitted to his (alleged) steroid use, he wouldn't be in this conundrum. Seems rather simple to me - instead of risking only his reputation, he decided to risk his reputation as well as his freedom, and now it's coming back to bite him (and his poor family) in the ass. It's not Bonds' place to decide whether or not to lie to the government that subpoenaed him - if he feels that his right to due process has been violated then he can bring that up at the appropriate time, right?

I don't really care about asterisks or steroids or any of that crap anymore - hell, I don't even like baseball - but having the audacity to think you're above our legal system is a big no-no, in my eyes. Then again, as a future officer of the court, I am admittedly biased.

jthig32 · 11-18-2007, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by untitled

Why are we talking about steroids? The man is potentially going to jail for lying. Had he sucked it up and admitted to his (alleged) steroid use, he wouldn't be in this conundrum. Seems rather simple to me - instead of risking only his reputation, he decided to risk his reputation as well as his freedom, and now it's coming back to bite him (and his poor family) in the ass. It's not Bonds' place to decide whether or not to lie to the government that subpoenaed him - if he feels that his right to due process has been violated then he can bring that up at the appropriate time, right?

I don't really care about asterisks or steroids or any of that crap anymore - hell, I don't even like baseball - but having the audacity to think you're above our legal system is a big no-no, in my eyes. Then again, as a future officer of the court, I am admittedly biased.

DING DING DING!

chumdawg · 11-18-2007, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by untitled

Why are we talking about steroids? The man is potentially going to jail for lying. Had he sucked it up and admitted to his (alleged) steroid use, he wouldn't be in this conundrum. Seems rather simple to me - instead of risking only his reputation, he decided to risk his reputation as well as his freedom, and now it's coming back to bite him (and his poor family) in the ass. It's not Bonds' place to decide whether or not to lie to the government that subpoenaed him - if he feels that his right to due process has been violated then he can bring that up at the appropriate time, right?

I don't really care about asterisks or steroids or any of that crap anymore - hell, I don't even like baseball - but having the audacity to think you're above our legal system is a big no-no, in my eyes. Then again, as a future officer of the court, I am admittedly biased.

Like it or not, he IS above the legal system.

jthig32 · 11-18-2007, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Like it or not, he IS above the legal system.

Ok, you've lost it.

chumdawg · 11-18-2007, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Ok, you've lost it.

If he wasn't a pro ball player, no one would care if he used steroids. Right?

It does cut both ways.

untitled · 11-18-2007, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Like it or not, he IS above the legal system.

Hell, even Clinton was fined, disbarred in Arkansas, and suspended from the Supreme Court after lying to a grand jury - sure he avoided any other form of punishment, but it's not like we can take away Bonds' license to play professional sports. I don't think Bonds should spend much time behind bars (if any), but, if guilty, he does deserve punishment, IMO.

chumdawg · 11-18-2007, 11:35 PM

Some of you put way too much blind faith, and a lot of holier-than-thou-ness, in our legal system.

chumdawg · 11-18-2007, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by untitled

Hell, even Clinton was fined, disbarred in Arkansas, and suspended from the Supreme Court after lying to a grand jury - sure he avoided any other form of punishment, but it's not like we can take away Bonds' license to play professional sports. I don't think Bonds should spend much time behind bars (if any), but, if guilty, he does deserve punishment, IMO.

You don't need a license to play pro sports.

jthig32 · 11-18-2007, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

If he wasn't a pro ball player, no one would care if he used steroids. Right?

It does cut both ways.

The grand jury he testified in would have cared. Because he was a witness in their case against Victor Conte. It had nothing to do with him being a baseball player.

And to your comment about blind faith...whatever. If you want to put your faith in an idiot baseball player whom you have a man crush on, fine. I'll trust my legal system when it tells me that he lied under oath.

chumdawg · 11-18-2007, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

The grand jury he testified in would have cared. Because he was a witness in their case against Victor Conte. It had nothing to do with him being a baseball player.

And to your comment about blind faith...whatever. If you want to put your faith in an idiot baseball player whom you have a man crush on, fine. I'll trust my legal system when it tells me that he lied under oath.

You keep on trusting your legal system, jthig. It's doing just fine, I'm sure you will agree. And it's doing a good deed by putting Bonds behind bars for using steroids. Right? You sleep that much better at night knowing that Bonds will be behind bars, don't you?

untitled · 11-18-2007, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

You don't need a license to play pro sports.

That's why I said "it's not like we can take away Bonds' license to play professional sports".

untitled · 11-18-2007, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

You keep on trusting your legal system, jthig. It's doing just fine, I'm sure you will agree. And it's doing a good deed by putting Bonds behind bars for using steroids. Right? You sleep that much better at night knowing that Bonds will be behind bars, don't you?

Dammit, Chum - this has NOTHING to do with steroids. PERJURY and OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE. Not a single drug charge in the indictment.

chumdawg · 11-18-2007, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by untitled

That's why I said "it's not like we can take away Bonds' license to play professional sports".

What do you think is an appropriate punishment for the crime Bonds has commited against humanity?

chumdawg · 11-18-2007, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by untitled

Dammit, Chum - this has NOTHING to do with steroids. PERJURY and OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE. Not a single drug charge in the indictment.

When you put it that way, it sounds pretty damn bad. Again, what is your preferred punishment for the terrible crimes Bonds may (or may not) have committed against humanity?

untitled · 11-18-2007, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

What do you think is an appropriate punishment for the crime Bonds has commited against humanity?

Against humanity? Condescension won't get you far with me, Chum.

To answer your question: MAYBE a little jail time, most likely just a fine.

chumdawg · 11-18-2007, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by untitled

Against humanity? Condescension won't get you far with me, Chum.

To answer your question: MAYBE a little jail time, most likely just a fine.

Who's the condescending one? The ones lambasting Bonds, I am sure.

Still and all, pick a position. Should he go to jail, or shouldn't he? You are the executioner here. "MAYBE" isn't going to cut it.

untitled · 11-19-2007, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Who's the condescending one? The ones lambasting Bonds, I am sure.

Still and all, pick a position. Should he go to jail, or shouldn't he? You are the executioner here. "MAYBE" isn't going to cut it.

No, you went on the defensive and took the sarcastic "against humanity" stance - until then, this was a debate and you seem to want to turn it into an argument.

Back on point, I'm actually not the executioner. That's for a judge or jury. But if I were, and all of the evidence that's out there is accurate, I would just fine him - no jail time, seeing as how I'm all utilitarian and shit.

chumdawg · 11-19-2007, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by untitled

No, you went on the defensive and took the sarcastic "against humanity" stance - until then, this was a debate and you seem to want to turn it into an argument.

Back on point, I'm actually not the executioner. That's for a judge or jury. But if I were, and all of the evidence that's out there is accurate, I would just fine him - no jail time, seeing as how I'm all utilitarian and shit.

Don't back away. We are all the executioners. I'm the guy who would cheer Bonds just as much, and probably more so, after all these legal shenanigans. You are the guy who would boo him. Don't back away from that.

We can leave the legal questions to the lawyers. But the public opinion questions are ours to solve. I like Bonds, and I will like him even more when this legal witch hunt is said and done.

Others have made their minds up already the other way.

jthig32 · 11-19-2007, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

You keep on trusting your legal system, jthig. It's doing just fine, I'm sure you will agree. And it's doing a good deed by putting Bonds behind bars for using steroids. Right? You sleep that much better at night knowing that Bonds will be behind bars, don't you?

Behind bars for perjury.

chumdawg · 11-19-2007, 12:23 AM

That's going to make you sleep better, jthig? Bonds behind bars for "perjury"?

untitled · 11-19-2007, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Don't back away. We are all the executioners. I'm the guy who would cheer Bonds just as much, and probably more so, after all these legal shenanigans. You are the guy who would boo him. Don't back away from that.

How did I back away? I said IF I was a juror, THEN I'd be the executioner - and AS A JUROR, I'd fine him.

I answered your question in the only manner in which it would be relevant to this real-life situation - this isn't a philosophy class, this shit actually matters. You are not the executioner, so don't kid yourself - Bonds could not care less what you, or I, or the public, or the media, think of the situation.

But something tells me he might just care what 12 of his peers think (I know I would).

chumdawg · 11-19-2007, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by untitled

How did I back away? I said IF I was a juror, THEN I'd be the executioner - and AS A JUROR, I'd fine him.

I answered your question in the only manner in which it would be relevant to this real-life situation - this isn't a philosophy class, this shit actually matters. You are not the executioner, so don't kid yourself - Bonds could not care less what you, or I, or the public, or the media, think of the situation.

But something tells me he might just care what 12 of his peers think (I know I would).

I never got involved in arguing that point. What the judge and jury do with him...well, I don't know.

What I think is wrong is the manner in which federal prosecutors get involved with baseball...or with steroids. What I think is wrong is the way that sports fans view Barry Bonds. He is the best baseball player of the last forty years at least--and he may be the best ever--but this proselytizing by federal prosecutors has besmirched his name.

I hate that. It's wrong. It's sad, and wrong. People will use this "perjury" trial as something tantamount to a trial on Bonds's career. And that is wrong. Sad, and wrong.

jthig32 · 11-19-2007, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

That's going to make you sleep better, jthig? Bonds behind bars for "perjury"?

People getting punished for circumventing the justice system does makes me feel better. Yes it does.

jthig32 · 11-19-2007, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I never got involved in arguing that point. What the judge and jury do with him...well, I don't know.

What I think is wrong is the manner in which federal prosecutors get involved with baseball...or with steroids. What I think is wrong is the way that sports fans view Barry Bonds. He is the best baseball player of the last forty years at least--and he may be the best ever--but this proselytizing by federal prosecutors has besmirched his name.

I hate that. It's wrong. It's sad, and wrong. People will use this "perjury" trial as something tantamount to a trial on Bonds's career. And that is wrong. Sad, and wrong.

Cry me a freaking river. Poor poor Barry. What a miserable life he's led. What a horrible thing to have his memory forever blemished by this.

chumdawg · 11-19-2007, 01:06 AM

I am tired, so I will go to bed and go along you with you blood-sucking savages. If it moves, and if has at all offended your sensibilities, suck the blood right out of it. You will be righteous at the end of it.

horse900703 · 11-19-2007, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsX

barry bonds is gonna get F'ed in the A

lol.............

untitled · 11-19-2007, 10:56 AM

One question, Chum: Assuming that everything that has happened remains the same (Bonds started taking steroids after McGuire/Sosa, won the single season and lifetime HR records, etc.), but instead of lying to the jury he told the truth, would we be having this discussion? Would his liberty and/or property be at stake?

Stranger · 11-19-2007, 11:30 AM

edit-nevermind

Thespiralgoeson · 11-19-2007, 11:54 PM

F**k baseball, and f**k congress. I wish Bonds would've broken even more records just to rub it in everyones' faces.

fluid.forty.one · 11-20-2007, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsX

barry bonds is gonna get F'ed in the A

This is the only post in the thread that makes complete sense.

Silk Smoov · 12-13-2007, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

They might as well put an asterick by his name too. Things will come out about league wide steriod use. Anyone ever wonder why all of a sudden A-Rod wants to sign that big contact now with the Yanks?

Roger Maris record is still in the books as well. It is nothing new about steriods in MLB. If hits the fan correctly, then Clemmons name will surface as well.

BUMP!!!!!!!!!!!! BUMP!!!!!