Dirks Major Weakness - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

seelenjaeger · 09-04-2002, 05:21 AM

We all know Dirk now for some years, and we heard several issues about his defense, about his ability to take it inside, his leadership, and so on ... but actually I think we all witness the real problem with Dirk at the moment.

When he´s given a "mission" he starts hot, very hot, and is a dominant guy.

It was pretty obvious in the playoffs this year - major series vs. Minnesota. Then he suffers a set back and for some reason starts throwing bricks. His effort to get back is huge, and he works his way back into the series, but he really has a number of off-games.

Now the WCC. He starts with 30-34-24 as maybe the most impressive player in a non-US team during game 1-3, then cools off to 5-16 vs New Zealand and yesterdays 3-16 vs Argentine. He works really hard, his rebounding improves, and he gets to the line more often as he realizes his bad hand and tries to make up by penetrating more, still his shot just got lost.

Similar things happened at the ECC last year, when he carried the team on his shoulder for most of the tourney but played himself into a slump vs. Greece in the first (he was able to break out in the 2nd half) and continued to struggle later in the tourney.

And I am not quite sure but I seem to remember that he suffered a small setback in 2001 at he beginning of the Spurs series after that huge comeback series vs. Utah.

Anyone having an explanation for this?

Is it Dirks teammates relying too much on the Ueberman he uses to be in the beginning?

Is Dirk probably psyching him up when preparing for a "mission", psyching him up in a way that makes it hard to make "the next step" since the first step is already that important in his mind he just HAS to suffer a setdown after achieving?

Is Dirk overdriving his game to get a super-performance during the first games instead of settling for steady performances at the beginning, like p.e. Finley does it?

Maybe Dirk has to be protected from his own responsibility every now and then ...

Fidel · 09-04-2002, 05:53 AM

I don´t think it´s a psychologic problem. And I´m not so sure if I can see the pattern you describe either. If there is a problem at all, it´s a physical one. That was the case against Sac in the playoffs, I think this could also be the case now. Dirk is a 7 footer that plays like a guard sometimes. His style is very energy consuming I think. Same goes for the style of the Mavs.

IMO Dirk should change his style of play a little in order to use his energy a bit more economical. He should slow down sometimes and play more of a centers game on offense. He needs to realize that he is no guard. His game would also benefit alot if he´d post up more, instead of shooting jumpers and drive all the time.

This is also one of the reasons why I don´t like the idea of Dirk playing sf for the Mavs. He has the body of a pf/center and just because he shoots better than most sg´s doesn´t mean he should play like one. You can´t do that if you´re 7 foot tall without wearing down. He´s a pf and he should be playing like it. Which doesn´t mean that he can´t run the ocassional break, bring the ball sometimes and shoot alot of jumpers. He just shouldn´t settle for this which he does right now with team germany.

irontoad · 09-04-2002, 01:27 PM

I think it's probably a psychological issue. Seems like he has all the talent and capability to come through in important games, but he's mentally not ready to assume the role of a hero. He choked in the Utah series 2 seasons ago with an easy layup over Karl Malone to win the final game, (at least I think it was the final game) and from what I hear choked missing a key layup vs. the Kings last season in a late game. As far as the WC go, I think he'll get pissed about his last two performances and redeem them shortly. It's just if Germany gets to a championship game then he'll have to ask himself some serious questions.

Yeah, you're right, though, seelen, He does seem to start off great and then fizzle out, like vs. Minnesota and then Sacramento. But, if he hadn't caught fire like that vs. Minnesota, then maybe we Dallas would never have gotten past the first round. A lot of ways to look at it.

slowmo · 09-04-2002, 01:28 PM

I am sure it was fatigue. When you are jacked up for the start of the series you don't feel the fatigue as much. Now it is starting to effect him. Just a little bit of tiredness affects how hard you shoot the ball. If it keeps falling short then he tries to shoot it harder which of course too hard then. The normal muscle memory is changed and the shots are altered. That is why he takes it to the hole as it is a higher percentage shot and he has a chance for a free throw. That is smart thinking on his part. If you recognize your weekness then get the other players involved more to help you out until you get your second wind. You will notice he comes out shooting great early in the game but almost always fades toward the end of the game. It is only natural. He will overcome that as the season starts and he builds his endurance back up.

Dirk77 · 09-04-2002, 01:58 PM

"I think it's probably a psychological issue. Seems like he has all the talent and capability to come through in important games, but he's mentally not ready to assume the role of a hero. He choked in the Utah series 2 seasons ago with an easy layup over Karl Malone to win the final game, (at least I think it was the final game) and from what I hear choked missing a key layup vs. the Kings last season in a late game. As far as the WC go, I think he'll get pissed about his last two performances and redeem them shortly. It's just if Germany gets to a championship game then he'll have to ask himself some serious questions.

Yeah, you're right, though, seelen, He does seem to start off great and then fizzle out, like vs. Minnesota and then Sacramento. But, if he hadn't caught fire like that vs. Minnesota, then maybe we Dallas would never have gotten past the first round. A lot of ways to look at it."

LOL, that is BS!!! Ummm, we won the final game, how can he miss a game wiining lay-up if we advanced?? Try no. What ur thinking of was game one of the series, and it wasn't an "easy lay-yp" he drove by 3 guy's, then got hacked with no call. He also had two clutch back to back 30 point games when down 0-2!! Against Sac, that was purely unlucky, it was a good lay-up, it just rolled out. Dirk is extremely clutch. He has made a ton of game tying and a few game winning shots. He lead Nestlie crunch points, which doesn't mean a ton, but means something. He hardly fizzled out against sac. he was beyond fatigued, and we seem to forget his final playoof game last year against sac. he had over 30 points on over 50% shooting, no fizzle there.

We also seem to forget the year b/c where he ended the playoffs w/ 3 straight 30 point gam, including a final game of 44, yea, some fizzle, lol

irontoad · 09-04-2002, 02:37 PM

Yeah, I suppose you're right, D77. Unfortunately, I never really get to watch any Mavs games, so I'm probably speaking too much from a subjective point of view.

Dirk77 · 09-04-2002, 03:47 PM

Yea, that's ok. I would hate not being able to watch the Mavs basically everyday, or at least most of the time. You should buy one of these tv services like NBA league pass, that's how I get my games.

seelenjaeger · 09-04-2002, 04:20 PM

lol - don´t get me wrong, this isnt a BASH DIRK (nowitzki) thread ...

I just think there´s some tendency in Dirk to overdrive a bit, anyone agrees?

Red White and Blue · 09-04-2002, 04:20 PM

irontoad is right, he talking about the game where someone threw the ball long to Dirk, and he missed the layup over Malone. He didn't drive throuh 3 people, it was basically a 1 on 1 play, and he just missed the layup. I wouldn't say he choked becuase Dallas won the game. It was in the final game I believe, but I know exactly what you are referring to irontoad and you are right, he missed an easy layup, but the Mavs won. D77, 44 in a game that was over in the 3rd was nothing to brag about, especially when all the starters on both teams except Dirk had went out long before the final buzzer. I do think I have noticed Dirk play halfs well, and some halfs look unmotivated. He comes out on fire, and does nothing the next half. Or he will do nothing the 1st half, and come out firing the 2nd half. The guy I went to the world games noticed the same thing I did, especially after the game against the US.

Fidel · 09-04-2002, 04:33 PM

Fidel · 09-04-2002, 04:35 PM

SJ, like I said above I kind of agree. I don´t think it´s a psychological problem though. I think it´s got something to do with the way he plays, which might wear him down. He simply looked tired yesterday.

Dallas_Star · 09-04-2002, 05:02 PM

I went back and watchd my tape of the game 5 vs. Utah.The ball was thrown long to Dirk. When he got it, he went up for the layup, but because he waited so long, his angle was crap and the shot hit the side of the rim. Malone and basically nothing to do with the play. That shot would have put the mavs up with under a minute to go. Luckily, Calvin Booth had a layup tha put us u with a little over 10 seconds or so.

David · 09-04-2002, 05:20 PM

<< D77, 44 in a game that was over in the 3rd was nothing to brag about, especially when all the starters on both teams except Dirk had went out long before the final buzzer. >>

Duncan was still in the game you were referring to. I believe he starts for the Spurs.

seelenjaeger · 09-04-2002, 05:50 PM

And those line was more than 44 ... he had some rebounds and steals aswell ... first time since some guy like Jordan has put up such a composure of stats in a playoff game ... now let me think about it ... first player overall BESIDES Jordan who did this ...

Red White and Blue · 09-04-2002, 08:08 PM

Funny David, I sure remember Duncan sitting in the middle of the 3rd. The Spurs won by a large margin, why would Duncan finish the game? I watched the game and I can assure you Duncan did not finish the game. I don't know what you saw, but I can assure you Popovich is a good coach he wouldn't play Duncan in a blowout win, especially in the playoffs. Because that game was over in the 3rd quarter! You say Duncan was in there, why would he fuinish a game that was over in the 3rd David? Please answer that for me, its common sense. Their coach wouldn't overplay him in a blowout win, and ontop of that I watched the game and he went out long before the final buzzer. Dirk was in the game until the final whistle, are you saying that Duncan was in their too? That's what you just said, so please clarify exactly what you mean. I seen the same game, and seen something different obviously!

Dirk77 · 09-04-2002, 08:40 PM

he said duncan was in during the 4th and he was.

Red White and Blue · 09-04-2002, 08:44 PM

NO, D77 that is not what he said. I said all starters went out long before the final buzzer and he said, Duncan was in there. You may want to go back and read it again.

David · 09-05-2002, 05:56 AM

<< NO, D77 that is not what he said. I said all starters went out long before the final buzzer and he said, Duncan was in there. You may want to go back and read it again. >>

Here is a link to some stats for the game, that I found. Dirk scored 42 points and got 18 rebounds. The boxscore shows Duncan playing 45 minutes. I wonder if he was in the game in the 4th quarter? Of course Duncan had 32 points and had 20 rebounds.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif[/img]

Patricia's web site

What about that, RW&BooHoo?

I may be old but...what was I saying?

Red White and Blue · 09-05-2002, 12:19 PM

I said Dirk was in there to finish the game, and you said Duncan was in there too. So 45 is not exactly 48, and I am not sure if that site is very reliable. My first time ever seeing it. It's kind of funny noone on the Spurs played over 30 minutes but Duncan and Daniels. It also had Finley playing 39 minutes when I remember him sitting long before that. He shot 1-17(about the only thing I see accurate) and I remember Nelson sitting him in the 3rd. I am sure we can both agree that playing 47 minutes in a 105-87 loss is a little weird don't you think? If that boxscore is right, then I was wrong about when Duncan went out. On the other hand, my point was that 42 points(in 47 minutes) in a game that was over in the 3rd is not a whole lot to brag about, seeing how your free to pad your stats until the final buzzer.

seelenjaeger · 09-05-2002, 12:24 PM

If I had to choose between that site and your memory - unanimous choice for Pat´s.

Red White and Blue · 09-05-2002, 12:27 PM

good to know! I really value your vote and opinion, NOT! You probably didn't even watch the game, yet you are here saying you are a Mavs fan! LOL

Fidel · 09-05-2002, 12:59 PM

RWB, David called you out and you aren´t even man enough to admit it. Well enjoy your time here as long as you can. As soon as DJ implements a new board software with an ignore function, you´ll be talking all to yourself.

and just in case you´re trying to backtrack, this is what you said:

<< Funny David, I sure remember Duncan sitting in the middle of the 3rd. The Spurs won by a large margin, why would Duncan finish the game?

I said all starters went out long before the final buzzer and he said, Duncan was in there. >>

Funny thing is, Duncan played almost the entire game. He logged 45 mins.

Red White and Blue · 09-05-2002, 01:27 PM

Another 1 that can't read, what kind of school do they have where you live? I said in my post above that if that site is accurate then I was wrong about when Duncan went out, but that wasn't the point of my initial post! My point was, theres nothing to brag about when someone has a big game and you get blown out. That game was over in the 3rd quarter, and that was my point!

Chef Ed · 09-05-2002, 04:23 PM

Maybe it's because he feels that it is his responsibily to carry the team, and when it's not falling, he get's frustraited with himself, and maybe the rest of the team.
I think the amount of games, in the short period of time, and the fact that he is doing it all by himself may have something to do with it.
It is very possitive to see him go to the line as much as he is though, and his FT percentage is excelent. I hope that translates into more trips to the line when the season starts, and maybe his willingness to go to the hole more. Time will tell.

David · 09-05-2002, 05:44 PM

<< Another 1 that can't read, what kind of school do they have where you live? I said in my post above that if that site is accurate then I was wrong about when Duncan went out, but that wasn't the point of my initial post! My point was, theres nothing to brag about when someone has a big game and you get blown out. That game was over in the 3rd quarter, and that was my point! >>

If the game was over in the 3rd quarter, why did the Spurs have Duncan in there for 45 minutes? Shouldn't he have played 15 minutes less?

What were the Spurs worried about, if the game was over as soon as you said? Perhaps the professional coaches that the Spurs employ felt the game WAS in doubt. What did Duncan have to prove in an 18 point victory that required him to play 45 minutes?

Dirk was kicking their butts. If the Spurs had taken Duncan out, the Mavs might have won. That means the Spurs had to play, arguably the best player in the league, practically the whole game, in a blowout, to keep Dirk from single-handedly winning the game. IMO, that's why BOTH Dirk and Duncan were still in that game.

That was an elimination game. Why would the Mavs sit their best player, when he is hot, when there is SOME chance to win the game? If you think the Mavs should have pulled Dirk, then, IMO, you think the Mavs should have just quit and gone home without putting up some kind of fight.

Patrica probably fudged those numbers, last year, to make you look like you don't know what you're talking about, this year.