The Obama Gun Effect

[wmbwinn]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

I try not to take the Hornet with me too often...........LOL

Ideally I'd take a Remmington R-25 in .243 ---- but they are a little pricey right now for me.

I tend to shoot larger calibers, but my son is a little light in the backside right now.

7 mm Mauser and 6.5 Swede Mauser are two other options that would be likely inexpensive and without much of a kick at all.

[wmbwinn]

Underdog: [we now return you to your regularly scheduled fear-based circle jerk...]

Be Prepared- Scout Motto.

Being prepared is not a function of fear.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

7 mm Mauser and 6.5 Swede Mauser are two other options that would be likely inexpensive and without much of a kick at all.

I am looking at a Romanian Dragonov Sniper Rifle right now. Just undecided if I want to drop $800 on a sniper rifle for him (when I am the one who wants it). I am also looking at some SKS in 7.62 and a couple of mini 14's in .223.

[jefelump]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

I am looking at a Romanian Dragonov Sniper Rifle right now. Just undecided if I want to drop $800 on a sniper rifle for him (when I am the one who wants it). I am also looking at some SKS in 7.62 and a couple of mini 14's in .223.

I have been looking at the Dragonov too. I met a guy at a gun range who had one, and he completely loved it. From what I saw, it was pretty accurate too. But I would have a hard time dropping $800 on a gun for my son too. It would definitely be MINE. My only functional objection to this gun is it has a stamped receiver, and not steel milled. But I'm not sure how much that really matters.

[wmbwinn]

Riots in Greece:

"Critics say that the government has lost control over the tactical management of the crisis, with radical anarchists burning shops, cars, banks and even government buildings, including the Hellenic Parliament Foundation and the Foreign Ministry's diplomatic academy. Some 320 stores, 50 banks and a number of civilian buildings have been damaged or destroyed in Athens, with another 100 stores in the northern city of Thessaloniki targeted. There have also been outbreaks of violence in several small cities and on the island of Corfu.


In Athens' Syntagma square, just across from Parliament, protesters set ablaze the large Christmas tree. Today, more clashes took place in the square and the surrounding streets as police used tear gas to break up a large group of protestors throwing rocks at the Parliament building. Later in the afternoon clashes resumed in downtown Athens with youth groups barricaded in the Athens Polytechnic School, near the Exarchia district, setting up roadblocks outside the School, burning cars and bus stops."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/2008120...08599186532600

Now, what would happen in Texas if people were throwing rocks and setting fires across the cities and landscape?

Answer: The armed citizens of Texas would prevent the sort of situation Greece is seeing.

Discussion: An armed populace is the best guarantee of peace. A police squad and military system cannot maintain peace and cannot take care of you.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

Discussion: An armed populace is the best guarantee of peace. A police squad and military system cannot maintain peace and cannot take care of you.

If I wanted/needed a gun, I could have one by noon tomorrow. Whether it would be legal for me to own/use that gun would not be a concern of mine, if we are talking about a militia state.

What exactly is your point?

[wmbwinn]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

If I wanted/needed a gun, I could have one by noon tomorrow. Whether it would be legal for me to own/use that gun would not be a concern of mine, if we are talking about a militia state.

What exactly is your point?

Most of you that argue with me about guns want gun control. You want these guns to not be available. If you had what most of you want, then you could not just go get the gun when you wanted it...

British citizens are at risk of the same problems Greece is seeing. They have had their guns taken away and destroyed. They literally have no access to the guns and cannot "have one by noon tomorrow"

[wmbwinn]

TIJUANA, Mexico (Reuters) – Gunmen are deliberately killing innocent people with random shootings at bars, restaurants and shopping malls in the city of Tijuana in a new scare tactic that takes Mexico's drug war to new depths.

Hit squads have killed at least 50 people, including around 10 children, since October in an escalation of violence in public places that security officials say is akin to terrorism.

The indiscriminate attacks, including shootings in cinemas, pool halls and restaurants, appear to be an attempt by the weakened Arellano Felix cartel to show security forces and rival gangs that it is still a force despite setbacks.

In one recent attack, gunmen in body armor and armed with assault rifles stormed into Tijuana's popular Crazy Banana pool hall and opened fire on customers, killing four men and a woman.

"We were playing pool and these masked men came in shouting and started firing at everyone," said day laborer Juan Miguel at the scene, wiping blood from his head after the attack

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081209/...s_mexico_drugs

The above example is a lot closer to you there in Texas. Those killings have occurred in New Mexico and Arizona also...

[mcsluggo]

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

Riots in Greece:



http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/2008120...08599186532600

Now, what would happen in Texas if people were throwing rocks and setting fires across the cities and landscape?

Answer: The armed citizens of Texas would prevent the sort of situation Greece is seeing.

Discussion: An armed populace is the best guarantee of peace. A police squad and military system cannot maintain peace and cannot take care of you.

oh my....

do you REALLY think that adding random guns to the situation in Athens would DIFUSE the situation?

OR that a bunch of yahoos charging in willy nilly with guns but without any sort of coordination would be the solution?


wow.

[wmbwinn]

Originally Posted by mcsluggo

oh my....

do you REALLY think that adding random guns to the situation in Athens would DIFUSE the situation?

OR that a bunch of yahoos charging in willy nilly with guns but without any sort of coordination would be the solution?


wow.

The Greek military and police certainly are unable to handle this. So, what is your "enlightened solution"

The answer is simple. You are responsible to protect yourself.

Break into my business to loot and steal. Get shot by the owner.
Break into my house to rob, harm, etc. Get shot by the owner.
Harm my neighbor or neighbor's business. Get shot by the neighbor.

It is places like Greece and France where riots can break out (recall the Islamic riots earlier in France) and the populace is unarmed and unable to defend themselves. Every time, the police and military fail.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

The Greek military and police certainly are unable to handle this. So, what is your "enlightened solution"

The answer is simple. You are responsible to protect yourself.

Break into my business to loot and steal. Get shot by the owner.
Break into my house to rob, harm, etc. Get shot by the owner.
Harm my neighbor or neighbor's business. Get shot by the neighbor.

It is places like Greece and France where riots can break out (recall the Islamic riots earlier in France) and the populace is unarmed and unable to defend themselves. Every time, the police and military fail.

The problem, wmb, that I have with your logic is that I don't see how it has anything to do with the laws. If I'm a business owner or a homeowner, I can put a gun in my business or home no matter what the law says. I can get my hands on a gun, I can protect myself. What, do I need the government to tell me it's OKAY to have a weapon in my business or my home? Not me, baby.

What I want is for the bad guys to NOT have guns. Consider the harsh gun laws in NYC, as we have learned about thanks to the Plaxico Burress incident. Carry a loaded weapon illegaly, and it's three years in the can, no questions asked. That's the sort of harsh punishment that is going to make fools think twice about carrying around loaded guns. Use a gun in a crime? VERY harsh penalties. Again, makes fools think twice.

[wmbwinn]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

I am looking at a Romanian Dragonov Sniper Rifle right now. Just undecided if I want to drop $800 on a sniper rifle for him (when I am the one who wants it). I am also looking at some SKS in 7.62 and a couple of mini 14's in .223.

When you say "Romanian Dragunov", are you referring to the 7.62x54 "PSL" weapon? I have considered one as well primarily because it will be available for a short time, sale out, and then climb in value as the supply is gone. The other nice thing about that gun is that it shoots the very cheapest surplus military ammo on the planet right now.... Downside is what Jefelump noted: it has a stamped receiver. The AK47 design originally used stamped receivers. The Russians kept track of how many times they had been shot and scheduled the guns for destruction (or at least schedule to replace the receiver). But, then the various countries with these weapons discovered that the eager US Market would buy these guns that were scheduled for destruction. So, that is always my fear with an original AK47 inspired gun with an original stamped receiver. I very much prefer the guns that have a new US made milled steel receiver with the parts kit coming from Romania or elsewhere... So, I haven't bought one. Eventually, the various US companies that make clone receivers will make a milled steel receiver for that gun. Then, I'll be very interested...

Consider the Yugoslavian M76 "Sniper" 8 mm AK47 type gun. They had the cheap stamped receivers as well. But, Ohio Rapid Firearms makes a milled steel receiver for them. You can get one of those with a receiver that will last hundreds of years if cared for. J&G Sales (jgsales.com) is advertising that gun for 1750 dollars in the Shotgun News. I can't find it online at J&G. But, you can get the complete kit WITH the American receiver at ORF (Ohio Rapid Firearms) much cheaper. You just need someone to put it together.

I am not a fan of the SKS. Just my opinion. They are sloppy, inaccurate guns. The Russians made some that are reportedly more accurate. But, the Yugo I once owned disgusted me and I sold it off.

Ruger has made huge improvements in the mini Ranch and mini 30. They offer the "Target" model now. Basically, Ruger noted how many aftermarket companies were taking their guns and improving them for good money. So, Ruger started making the improvements themselves. However, A Ruger Mini Ranch Target gun will cost you more than the Dragunov you were looking at.

An old standard Ruger Ranch .223 is not a very accurate gun. I'm not a fan of it either. But, that is just my opinion.

If a gun isn't accurate, I don't keep it. Can't stand sloppy, inaccurate guns, or guns that malfunction.