Other peoples money

[chumdawg]

-- Although liberal families' incomes average 6 percent higher than those of conservative families, conservative-headed households give, on average, 30 percent more to charity than the average liberal-headed household ($1,600 per year vs. $1,227).

If we are trying to draw broad conclusions about the two groups, the average may not give us the best analysis. Were there people at the top end--like, say, a Bill Gates--who skewed the average? At the very least, it would be helpful to see the mean. And at best, we would like to know the mean of the percentage income given. There are a number of moving parts here.

Still and all, it's a pointless exercise. Ask yourself what type of person is likely to pass a beggar and give a dollar and what type of person is likely to pass that beggar and say, "Get a job."

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

If we are trying to draw broad conclusions about the two groups, the average may not give us the best analysis. Were there people at the top end--like, say, a Bill Gates--who skewed the average? At the very least, it would be helpful to see the mean. And at best, we would like to know the mean of the percentage income given. There are a number of moving parts here.

Still and all, it's a pointless exercise. Ask yourself what type of person is likely to pass a beggar and give a dollar and what type of person is likely to pass that beggar and say, "Get a job."

What does the reaction to a beggar have to do with someone's willingness to give to a charity? There are plenty of charities for someone to give to even if their opinion of beggars and homeless is that they "should get a job".

And let's please leave the quotes off of the word charity when we refer to people giving to churches. Churches are charities. I'm sure some churches dont' seem like it, but I'm sure all secular charities are not created equal either. The money I give to my church does a lot of people a lot of good.

[dude1394]

Don't be such a "church" hata'.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by jthig32

What does the reaction to a beggar have to do with someone's willingness to give to a charity? There are plenty of charities for someone to give to even if their opinion of beggars and homeless is that they "should get a job".

I don't get where you are coming from. What are the charities to give to that are not only different from, but in the context of our discussion more deserving than, street people?

And let's please leave the quotes off of the word charity when we refer to people giving to churches. Churches are charities. I'm sure some churches dont' seem like it, but I'm sure all secular charities are not created equal either. The money I give to my church does a lot of people a lot of good.

"Churches are charities" is a bigger claim than I think you want to make.

[Arne]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I don't get where you are coming from. What are the charities to give to that are not only different from, but in the context of our discussion more deserving than, street people?

If someone is in a healthy condition and able to work, why should he not get a job? It's a whole other story when we're talking about veterans who lost their legs or other disabled people.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by Arne

If someone is in a healthy condition and able to work, why should he not get a job? It's a whole other story when we're talking about veterans who lost their legs or other disabled people.

I agree with you, why should he not get a job. In fact, I think there should be good jobs for every good American. He should be able to pick and choose, for that matter.

I'm afraid it doesn't work like that, though. Is there full employment in Germany?

[wmbwinn]

no one posted any links or documents to support the statement that excluding churches that libs give more charity than conservs.

But... let examine the arguement. Basically, several of you are saying that liberals give more to charity if and only if we eliminate gifts to churches. So... does that mean liberals don't go to church? Or does that mean that liberals that do go to church don't contribute/donate to the church? Either way, you are forming a conclusion that the Dem party has been trying to fight.

It was obvious that Obama and Hillary and the National Dem Convention very much wanted the nation to see that Liberals/Dems go to church too and that Conservs/Reps don't have a monopoly on the Church issue.

Now, it became funny to me to watch Obama dance between wanting to appear Christian and wanting to distance himself from the Reverend and Church that converted him from Islam towards Christianity.

Anyway, I find it interesting to see some of you arguing that Church is shit and that Dems don't support churches. I hope you are successful in getting your message out. A lot of Church going persons voted for Obama.

[jefelump]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I don't get where you are coming from. What are the charities to give to that are not only different from, but in the context of our discussion more deserving than, street people?

"Churches are charities" is a bigger claim than I think you want to make.

I have to agree with jthig here. Churches do a lot of charitable work, therefore can be considered a charity.

From dictionary.com

char⋅i⋅ty

1. generous actions or donations to aid the poor, ill, or helpless: to devote one's life to charity.
2. something given to a person or persons in need; alms: She asked for work, not charity.
3. a charitable act or work.
4. a charitable fund, foundation, or institution: He left his estate to a charity.
5. benevolent feeling, esp. toward those in need or in disfavor: She looked so poor that we fed her out of charity.
6. leniency in judging others; forbearance: She was inclined to view our selfish behavior with charity.
7. Christian love; agape.

How many churches do you know of who do NOT participate in the kinds of activities listed above?

If I pay tithes and offerings to my church, and my church uses that money to aid those in need, how is that not charitable? How is my contribution anything other than charity?

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by jefelump

I have to agree with jthig here. Churches do a lot of charitable work, therefore can be considered a charity.

Roll off some citations here, whether it's your church or another you know of.

I am not under the impression that churches are in the business of taking money from parishioners and redistributing it to outsiders.

[wmbwinn]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Roll off some citations here, whether it's your church or another you know of.

I am not under the impression that churches are in the business of taking money from parishioners and redistributing it to outsiders.

Research Catholic Charities to start with. You are truly demonstrating a high degree of ignorance.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

Research Catholic Charities to start with. You are truly demonstrating a high degree of ignorance.

If I'm ignorant, that's fine. I'm certainly ignorant of a lot of things, so I don't take it as an insult. Educate me. Show me where the money goes.

[jefelump]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Roll off some citations here, whether it's your church or another you know of.

I am not under the impression that churches are in the business of taking money from parishioners and redistributing it to outsiders.

Wow, you're completely ignorant of the charitable work done by churches on behalf of "outsiders"?

Let's see here, ever heard of the Salvation Army? You know, those obnoxious bell ringers at Wal Mart. What is that money used for? I wonder....

Let's go back to Hurricane Katrina. How many churches gave aid to the victims? How many churches sent people to Louisiana and Mississippi to help with the cleanup? Did you go help with the cleanup with your church? My brother and I did.

The LDS Church (mormons) have been involved in cleanup/relief efforts in just about every natural disaster in recent history (Katrina, that Tsunami a couple of years ago, etc).

How many Catholic charities are there in third world countries? I don't have the exact number, but there are many.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by jefelump

Wow, you're completely ignorant of the charitable work done by churches on behalf of "outsiders"?

Let's see here, ever heard of the Salvation Army? You know, those obnoxious bell ringers at Wal Mart. What is that money used for? I wonder....

Let's go back to Hurricane Katrina. How many churches gave aid to the victims? How many churches sent people to Louisiana and Mississippi to help with the cleanup? Did you go help with the cleanup with your church? My brother and I did.

The LDS Church (mormons) have been involved in cleanup/relief efforts in just about every natural disaster in recent history (Katrina, that Tsunami a couple of years ago, etc).

How many Catholic charities are there in third world countries? I don't have the exact number, but there are many.

I think what I'm hearing from you is that churches respond well to emergencies. That's certainly well and good.

I think we were talking about non-emergency situations, like the homeless on the street. We were discussing the idea that conservatives care more for those homeless than the liberals do.