GDT: Mavs @ Celtics - 1/25/09 - 12:00 PM CST - Page 7 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Stranger · 01-25-2009, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I don't buy that. Guys in play in this league in their 30's. Look at the Spurs. The oldest team in the league. Talent is a problem with this team and for far too long this organization has failed to realize that.

I was just being a little snarky towards the team--the joke was "what are they doing under Carlisle?" "Getting older--and that's about it." Talent is definitely the major problem.

DevinHarriswillstart · 01-25-2009, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkgreatness

Thats why i'm thinking we should blow this team up. If our FO thinks this team is gonna contend the way it is now, they're delusional. We're just wasting Dirk's prime. This team is going no where.

Carlisle promised a more open offense this season. The FO and team knee-jerked because of the slow start and all but abandoned the princeton offense. To me, that is coming back to haunt us now because players like a GG are rendered useless.

Until that blow-up comes, I say make the team more confident on at least one side of the ball. It has been half a season and D seems to get worse and worse. Why not at least TRY to open the offense up more just to at least build some player confidence. And yeah, let them have a little more fun because I haven't seen much fun this season at all.

I just see 0 adjustments by the coaching staff. Sad.

Dtownsfinest · 01-25-2009, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkgreatness

Plus its not like our top 2 scorers (which are 30+) are declining. Jet and Dirk are both having great years.

Agree. Honestly I wouldn't worry about those guys as far as age is concern for about 3 or 4 more years. They're going to be fine unless something bizarre happens. Stackhouse is a guy clearly inferior to who he once was due to age and injuries. Our old guys are still the best players on this team and are still solid.

Dirkgreatness · 01-25-2009, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Carlisle promised a more open offense this season. The FO and team knee-jerked because of the slow start and all but abandoned the princeton offense. To me, that is coming back to haunt us now because players like a GG are rendered useless.

Until that blow-up comes, I say make the team more confident on at least one side of the ball. It has been half a season and D seems to get worse and worse. Why not at least TRY to open the offense up more just to at least build some player confidence. And yeah, let them have a little more fun because I haven't seen much fun this season at all.

I just see 0 adjustments by the coaching staff. Sad.

Well if we continue getting blow out, trust me, no one is going to be having fun.

Dtownsfinest · 01-25-2009, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stranger

I was just being a little snarky towards the team--the joke was "what are they doing under Carlisle?" "Getting older--and that's about it." Talent is definitely the major problem.

Oh okay I gotcha lol. Good point because that's about all they are doing. Its the truth though. They're getting older and worse by the season. We've had some bad Mavs teams but its been awhile since i've seen one that the organization felt was a contender be this bad.

Dtownsfinest · 01-25-2009, 03:21 PM

I know this is the end of a blowout but atleast these guys out here are trying to play defense.

Dtownsfinest · 01-25-2009, 03:22 PM

He isn't doing anything this game but the Mavs should've drafted Billy Walker. He's a freak athletically.

Bayliss · 01-25-2009, 03:25 PM

Hollins should be getting 10 minutes a night at least as the backup center. Carlisle needs to quit playing Dirk and Bass together so damn much.

vRookie · 01-25-2009, 03:26 PM

Celtics scored 48 points off of 3 pointers today similar to the Bucks game. RC should paint a big fat 48 on each of their jersies to remind them to defend the perimeter and close out on shooters

tcat075 · 01-25-2009, 03:27 PM

What happened to Matt Carroll? to my knowledge, he's taken about 5 shots as a Maverick...

LonghornDub · 01-25-2009, 03:27 PM

The Mavs inability to guard anyone who's moving around a screen is a huge, huge problem.

tcat075 · 01-25-2009, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vRookie

Celtics scored 48 points off of 3 pointers today similar to the Bucks game. RC should paint a big fat 48 on each of their jersies to remind them to defend the perimeter and close out on shooters

When we did play good defense, they hit them anyway...

tcat075 · 01-25-2009, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

The Mavs inability to guard anyone who's moving around a screen is a huge, huge problem.

Yup. We are probably the worst team in the league guarding the pick and roll.

ghazi · 01-25-2009, 03:30 PM

My theory is that in 2006-2007 we weren't "actually" a 67 win team, our Pythagorean record was 58-24. So we've went from 58 to 51 to what seems liek 45, it's actually a more natural decline than it seems, we see it happening with the SUns/PIstons, we saw it happen with the Kings, Blazers, Jazz.

It's just the way the NBA works.... elite teams eventually become mediocre.

Regarding the Spurs, they're declining too.

Dtownsfinest · 01-25-2009, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Hollins should be getting 10 minutes a night at least as the backup center. Carlisle needs to quit playing Dirk and Bass together so damn much.

My fear of Hollins is that he goes for the ESPN highlight rather than the smart play. I think that may be a reason why he doesn't get minutes. HE looks great in the 5 minutes he gets but i've noticed instead of just blocking shots he tries to knock them out of the gym. Instead of the easy lay in he goes for the highlight dunk. Maybe its just his game but i'm not shocked one bit that he doesn't get much pt. If I had any say i'd make sure Hollins and Damp got all of the minutes at the 5 and if Bass needs minutes i'd rather him get them at the 3 than at the 4 when Dirk is in the game.

Flacolaco · 01-25-2009, 03:32 PM

xavier · 01-25-2009, 03:33 PM

R.I.P

tcat075 · 01-25-2009, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

My fear of Hollins is that he goes for the ESPN highlight rather than the smart play. I think that may be a reason why he doesn't get minutes. HE looks great in the 5 minutes he gets but i've noticed instead of just blocking shots he tries to knock them out of the gym. Instead of the easy lay in he goes for the highlight dunk. Maybe its just his game but i'm not shocked one bit that he doesn't get much pt. If I had any say i'd make sure Hollins and Damp got all of the minutes at the 5 and if Bass needs minutes i'd rather him get them at the 3 than at the 4 when Dirk is in the game.

agreed. on his one block late, the one he slapped, if he had just stuck his hand in the way, it would have been Mavs rebound and ball. But because he slapped it, the Celtics got it back.

alby · 01-25-2009, 03:37 PM

So BG, no more GDT's?

DevinHarriswillstart · 01-25-2009, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Hollins should be getting 10 minutes a night at least as the backup center. Carlisle needs to quit playing Dirk and Bass together so damn much.

I'm gonna keep saying this....it's why we can't play D. Bass is a horrible defender. Is anyone surprised that Dirk and Bass get schooled when they play the 4/5?

If we want to play good defense then a blow-up just has to happen. The talent for Carlisle's type of D simply is not there on this team.

LonghornDub · 01-25-2009, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

Yup. We are probably the worst team in the league guarding the pick and roll.

It's not even just pick and rolls. The Mavs have an incredibly tough time staying with any ballhandler who calls for a pick, even if the ballhandler isn't particularly quick and even if it's obvious that the pick man isn't going to roll toward the hoop.

When we played the Spurs a couple months back in Dallas, the Spurs at one point went about 9-10 plays in a row in the 4th Q/overtime running a pick at the elbow for Tony or Manu, which was usually set on the defender's back, rather than on his side. Every single time, it got them open. They went to it over and over and over and not once did the Mavs try to defend it differently (or just with more tenacity).

Today, it wasn't quite as bad, but there were so many plays where the guy getting screened literally made no effort to move over or under the screen. On one play, Allen got a pick for him at the top of the key, and Bass came up to hedge, but when he pulled back Allen was wide open because Wright was still stuck on the far side of the screener. He was literally just standing there, not even really trying to get back to Allen.

Dtownsfinest · 01-25-2009, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghazi

My theory is that in 2006-2007 we weren't "actually" a 67 win team, our Pythagorean record was 58-24. So we've went from 58 to 51 to what seems liek 45, it's actually a more natural decline than it seems, we see it happening with the SUns/PIstons, we saw it happen with the Kings, Blazers, Jazz.

It's just the way the NBA works.... elite teams eventually become mediocre.

Regarding the Spurs, they're declining too.

Suns have talent. There reasons for declining I just don't know. As far as the Spurs declining I think they're like 2nd in the West with injuries to Parker and Ginobilli for the 1st two months of the season. I'm shocked their record is as good as it is. But the Mavs........talent-wise they're inferior to the rest of the West. Talent doesn't win games trust me I know that as a Cowboys fan but it is a big part of competing just as much as coaching is. Right now we lack in both departments.

minkbarn · 01-25-2009, 03:43 PM

That was a great game by Rondo. He's moving up toward the top of the point guard ladder. As soon as that little jumper becomes consistent he'll be unguardable.

ghazi · 01-25-2009, 03:45 PM

My eyeballs tell me this Spurs team isn't as good as any of their teams from 2002-2003 until 2006-2007, from that standpoint I believe they're declining. They're 2nd in the West simply because nobody else in the WEst is that good right now outside the Lakers, and they've had a few lucky wins.

The Suns have no defense, that's why they're 23-18.

tcat075 · 01-25-2009, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

It's not even just pick and rolls. The Mavs have an incredibly tough time staying with any ballhandler who calls for a pick, even if the ballhandler isn't particularly quick and even if it's obvious that the pick man isn't going to roll toward the hoop.

When we played the Spurs a couple months back in Dallas, the Spurs at one point went about 9-10 plays in a row in the 4th Q/overtime running a pick at the elbow for Tony or Manu, which was usually set on the defender's back, rather than on his side. Every single time, it got them open. They went to it over and over and over and not once did the Mavs try to defend it differently (or just with more tenacity).

Today, it wasn't quite as bad, but there were so many plays where the guy getting screened literally made no effort to move over or under the screen. On one play, Allen got a pick for him at the top of the key, and Bass came up to hedge, but when he pulled back Allen was wide open because Wright was still stuck on the far side of the screener. He was literally just standing there, not even really trying to get back to Allen.

Yup. We got called for two fouls, if I remember correctly, trying to get past the person setting the pick and failing, enough so that a off-ball foul was called.

Really, that's how the Celtics got so many open looks for their treys. They would either run a pick and roll, or have a shooter run around from one side to the other (don't know what that type of offensive play is called) and the our guy couldn't get past a picker at some point.

When we go under the pick, we go too far under and its an open shot. When we go over the pick, then we caught on the pick and have to switch off, resulting in mismatches.

I really don't know whether its the coaches or the players. I'm leaning towards the players, but the coaches have to take some blame.

tcat075 · 01-25-2009, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by minkbarn

That was a great game by Rondo. He's moving up toward the top of the point guard ladder. As soon as that little jumper becomes consistent he'll be unguardable.

it sure was consistant today...

GermanDunk · 01-25-2009, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

Hey honey, bring some ice for my Whiskey.

AxdemxO · 01-25-2009, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghazi

My eyeballs tell me this Spurs team isn't as good as any of their teams from 2002-2003 until 2006-2007, from that standpoint I believe they're declining. They're 2nd in the West simply because nobody else in the WEst is that good right now outside the Lakers, and they've had a few lucky wins.

The Suns have no defense, that's why they're 23-18.

Thats a really bad argument to make gains the Spurs. Every will end up in a certain spot because other teams arent good enough to be there, thats the way it works

ghazi · 01-25-2009, 04:02 PM

I like margin of victory stats although many people don't. Spurs were on average 6-8 points better than the opposition in those years, this year its down to 3.3.

LonghornDub · 01-25-2009, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghazi

I like margin of victory stats although many people don't. Spurs were on average 6-8 points better than the opposition in those years, this year its down to 3.3.

Margin of victory isn't a bad stat to help separate teams in different echelons (e.g. "great" team versus "good" team), but you can usually just use record to do that anyway. The problem with using MoV is when it's to try and rank teams against each other who are relatively close anyway.

left texas · 01-25-2009, 04:12 PM

Easy post game summary thread:

Mavs sucked!

mavsjunkie · 01-25-2009, 04:17 PM

Why is our GM still here? What exactly has he done in favor of the Mavs?

Dtownsfinest · 01-25-2009, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghazi

My eyeballs tell me this Spurs team isn't as good as any of their teams from 2002-2003 until 2006-2007, from that standpoint I believe they're declining. They're 2nd in the West simply because nobody else in the WEst is that good right now outside the Lakers, and they've had a few lucky wins.

The Suns have no defense, that's why they're 23-18.

Suns have never had any defense and they've been better than they are now. Hell you can argue with Shaq guarding the interior and Matt Barnes and Richardson they have better defense then they had the past few years.

But aren't the Spurs notoriously known for hitting their peak after the All Star break? I've seen some of their box scores. They've had a lot of close games but I don't see that as a negative. They rarely lose close games. Its great practice for the post season. Didn't they beat the Magic or the Lakers a week or two ago? Its a odd year for the Spurs. I right them off every year and every other year they win the Finals. Its that odd year and i'm no longer doing it lol.

BGMaverick9 · 01-25-2009, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

The Mavs inability to guard anyone who's moving around a screen is a huge, huge problem.

That always bothers me about their pick and roll defense...it's just lazy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alby

So BG, no more GDT's?

I'm not done and I'm not giving up!

Y'all should be thanking me for jumping on the grenade, so you didn't mess with your records haha.

SMC0007 · 01-25-2009, 04:55 PM

That game was not cool. But, at least we didn't trade for Redd! He is done for the year, sux for him and Milwaukee.

Our defense pathetic. Our heart is weak, we looked like scared sheep out there. Our team is untalented and poorly constructed.

Another game where GG doesn't get in, our stars were still out there when the game was well over. Losing faith in RC and Co. slowly but surely.

We lack a guy that will demand accountability and toughness and get on to his teammates.

I look forward to the changes to come.

DevinHarriswillstart · 01-25-2009, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsjunkie

Why is our GM still here? What exactly has he done in favor of the Mavs?

Hey, Donnie might bring back Pops Mensah-Bonsu. All is well, friend, all is well.

lol I couldn't resist.

Dirkadirkastan · 01-25-2009, 05:22 PM

Just watched the first quarter on my DVR, and fast forwarded through the rest, watching the score pile up.

That was fun.

Dirkadirkastan · 01-25-2009, 05:23 PM

This message is hidden because mavsjunkie is on your ignore list.

Please, nobody quote this idiot.

Rick41 · 01-25-2009, 06:33 PM

So did Matt Carroll come ever arrive with the team? Or did Ryan Hollins come by himself?

mac222b · 01-25-2009, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

The Mavs inability to guard anyone who's moving around a screen is a huge, huge problem.

Yes, yes it is.