General Election GDT 11/04/2008

[chumdawg]

Dallas County is in, and it's 57 to 42 Obama.

[chumdawg]

Damn, if Obama is going to win IN, that is some crazy stuff. It looks like he is going to win IN and NC and lose MO. That is crazy. IN used to be the most Republican state in the nation.

[xavier]

thank god for no more bush
thank god for never putting mccain/palin in the white house to copy the past 8 years
Obama crushed Mccain
plain
and
simple

[mary]

Al Franken is currently trailing by 757 votes.

[dude1394]

Congratulations to Barack Obama and to all of his supporters. It continues to amaze just how dynamic this country continues to be.

Good luck.

[Kirobaito]

Originally Posted by mary

Al Franken is currently trailing by 757 votes.

Also, not all the votes have been counted in GA. Jim Martin won't jump ahead of the insufferable Saxby Chambliss, but it might go to a runoff.

[aexchange]

Yesterday was a remarkable day in American history and helped us hopefully turn the page on a really ugly chapter of America.

And I'm not talking about the Bush legacy.

[92bDad]

Originally Posted by kappasigma

YA, WAY TO BE AMERICAN! Why don't we just kill all the democrats? I mean, wtf, they're not americans!

wtf? Dude there was not one mention of killing, don't even go there. 2010 is about getting out the vote as it will be again in 2012!!!

Sure Democrats are Americans, American with a vastly different opinion and ideology on how to lead and run this nation.

Nearly all disagree with the wording I use in my communications, but there are several who agree with the message being conveyed. All we have to do is read through the thread and we see that we have a divided view as we have always had on this board and in this nation.

We have a few issues that will have to be addressed in the coming years:

1) How do we combat the leftist elistism from the media?
2) How do we get the message of authentic hope out to the casual voter?
3) How do we share with certain blocs of voters and create an environment that makes it okay for them to choose as individuals rather than community pressure?
4) How do we rally the base?
5) How do we not stand by and allow bad things to happen?

We've heard nothing but complaining for 8 years from the left, so much so that the negative spin has effected the outcome of this Presidential election. We must be vigilant in pointing the negative of this coming administration, while ignoring the postives.

Being nice and positive, reaching across the aisle has gotten us NOTHING but a larger divide. So if we are divided, we need to put a huge spotlight on the things that are wrong so that we can fix them. We must expose those issues and solutions from the left for what they are, simply WRONG!!!

We must then present better solutions and let the American people know which way the politicians, from the President on down, stand on those solutions.

We must fight with our voice and not be silenced again!!!

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by Rhylan

No doubt. If it becomes okay for non-white people to make decisions based solely on race, and dwell on race, and in some cases flat out obsess about race, then you're going to get feedback and more race tension from the white side, which took years to undo. Endless cycle. It's the old "two wrongs don't make a right" argument.

Race is not supposed to matter at all. That's what I was taught. But if 13% of the population have nothing in common but race, and should be otherwise as diverse across every dimension as any other ethnicity or 13% slice of people, go in numbers above 90% for a single political party.. you have a problem.

We can't have people in this country identifying with a political party primarily due to the continent of their ancestry, no matter what continent or party it is. That's exactly the type of stuff we've been trying to fix for 200 years.

I have listened and listened to some of you on this issue. Let it go. Blacks did NOT vote for Obama because he was black. Obama spoke to the issues at hand for blacks..Lets just be honest about this thing. The reason blacks done vote for Republicans in large numbers, is because for the most part the Republican party has ignored that vote. I GUARANTEE the Republican party will wake up and reach out to the minorities NOW. I guarantee it.. If they dont, then this is just the start of the end of the Republican party. IMO

To all of you still holding on to this blacks voting for Obama because he is black. LET IT GO!!!!! Blacks did not vote for Obama because he is black, and Obama got a large percentage of votes from whites as well.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Republicans thrive when fiscal conservatives go their way, perhaps despite the unsavory social views. When Republicans don't have fiscal conservatism going for them, the majority of folks don't have much reason to vote for them. God and guns and gays is only going to get you so far.

Bingo - at the end of the day, Republicans vote with their pocketbook...

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I'm not talking about racism, bro. And I'm not talking about Nash, either. I'm talking about politics. You said yourself earlier--and I wholeheartedly agree--that neither party has done more for blacks over the last couple decades than the other has. I'm trying to figure out why the Dems have done such a better job of getting their vote than the Reps have.

I don't mind the way they vote, any more than I would mind pro-lifers voting Republicans. People vote certain ways for certain reasons. But no reason is any less legitimate than the other. As they say, you can vote however you like.

So why have Republicans done so piss-poor in getting black votes? Why have they so underperformed in this demographic in such huge margins? What is it about the Republican party that causes it to underperform in this demographic FAR worse than they perform in any other demographic we know?

You would seem to look at the numbers and ask why blacks vote Dem the way they do. I look at the numbers and ask why blacks avoid the Republican party like they do.

In political terms--not "racist" terms--they are equally valid questions.

I suspect he knows the answer to those questions and he just wants to stir the pot up. Why is he even trying to go that route? It is amazing that he could be trying to go there now. Am I surprised by him? No, and that is what I was telling him earlier

[92bDad]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

I have listened and listened to some of you on this issue. Let it go. Blacks did NOT vote for Obama because he was black. Obama spoke to the issues at hand for blacks..Lets just be honest about this thing. The reason blacks done vote for Republicans in large numbers, is because for the most part the Republican party has ignored that vote. I GUARANTEE the Republican party will wake up and reach out to the minorities NOW. I guarantee it.. If they dont, then this is just the start of the end of the Republican party. IMO

To all of you still holding on to this blacks voting for Obama because he is black. LET IT GO!!!!! Blacks did not vote for Obama because he is black, and Obama got a large percentage of votes from whites as well.

Silk you are being NAIVE on this issue.

No not ALL voted due to race, white, black, brown, yellow...whatever...again NOT ALL voted due to skin color.

But just as there are some white who voted against Obama for this reason there are some Blacks who voted FOR Obama due to skin color.

Sure, you are correct when you point out that Republicans have done a horrible job of targeting the black vote and finding ways to appeal to black voters...that has merit and is well worthy of a discussion...heck I would even ask your opinion on how Republicans can campaign and attract Black voters based on issues?

But to say that there is no Black racism is as naive as me saying racism is over in America, when we both know that clearly there are issues within our own respective cultural associations.

You are I are NOT racist, but we are very emotional on our views. We can go through message boards left and right, through other media communication methods and see that clearly some Blacks voted FOR Obama because he's black. Why are you not willing to acknowledge this?

But again, back to the other point...how would you campaign as a Republican for African-American voters?

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by aexchange

Yesterday was a remarkable day in American history and helped us hopefully turn the page on a really ugly chapter of America.

And I'm not talking about the Bush legacy.

Yesterday was a sad day in America. It showed how truly little we have actually advanced... race continues to be a deciding factor for millions of Americans when it comes to their vote. That isn't a good thing in my opinion. Millions of people also voted for a candidate based upon 'change' without knowing what that change is. That is not a good thing in my opinion.

[Underdog]

Barack Obama was born 4 years before the Voting Rights Act of 1965 afforded blacks & women full voters rights - now he's President of the United States...

We live in a hell of a country when that much change can happen in a single lifetime...


Go America!!!

[mcsluggo]

Originally Posted by u2sarajevo

HECK YES!!!!!!

Something good is happening "politically" for me after all.

the euphamisms you kids use these days just blow my mind. Can't you just say "making whoopie".

[mcsluggo]

Originally Posted by FINtastic

If anyone, it's probably McCain. I thought he came off as a fairly likeable guy 8 months ago or whenever he won the nomination. Then the Republican advisors and whatnot got ahold of the guy and really botched things imo. If McCain had stuck to the vibes he seemed to be giving off back then, I would have like the guy a lot more. The Palin selection was kind of the nail in the coffin there. I still think McCain is a good guy, but he got brainwashed by the whack direction of the current powers-that-be in the republican party.

agreed

Originally Posted by Murphy3

It's a shame for McCain.. He truly had virtually no chance to win following up Bush.

and also agreed.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Well, that's okay. Tonight we are talking about the presidential level.

I don't understand what "Derbyshire" means, but I think I can still comment.

read the post below that I quoted.

I don't think that a plurality of Americans believe in the brand of "social conservatism" that the Republicans presently offer.

you mean like marriage amendments?

And as for the question of whether McCanin pushed them or not, look to the VP choice. She's the most "socially conservative" candidate we have ever seen on a major ticket.

she gave him a huge bounce (his only bounce, really). Then they tried to funnel her through the party machine. McCain was unable to get his base excited. His party machine, in effect, sucked. He got less votes than Bush in '04. By a wide, wide margin. That's not on Palin, and it's ridiculous to say it is. He'd lost the base long before he chose his running mate. The fact that it took something like a VP choice to convince republicans that he might actually serve them says a lot.

Republicans thrive when fiscal conservatives go their way

we all do.

God and guns and gays is only going to get you so far.

you mean marriage amendments? I think those are still passing everywhere they are brought up.

[jthig32]

Looking through that Dallas Country election results page that Chum posted last night, some bond in Addison was denied by three votes. Holy cow.

And if the results are official, Irving is no longer dry, and it was decided by less than .5%. Pretty amazing.

[Flacolaco]

In Colorado, voters overwhelming (73% to 27%) approved a constitutional amendment to define “person” to include any human being from the moment of conception — in effect, completely banning abortion.

edit: Wow, that is false.

Gay Rights and Marriage

Issues dealing with gay rights in terms of marriage and adoption were on the ballot in four states. In the most-closely watched of the measures, Californians narrowly (52%) enacted Proposition 8, which would amend the state constitution to define marriage as a union between man and woman. Proposition 8, which drew international press attention and whose supporters were heavily outspent, was crafted to overturn an early decision by the state Supreme Court striking down an earlier state measure that banned same-sex marriage.

Similar statewide bans on same-sex marriage were enacted in Arizona (57%) and Florida (62%). In Arkansas, voters adopted a ban on adoption by gay couples.

link

[Rhylan]

Silk & Chum -

Fill in the blank:

90% of Blacks ______ the same.

You guys say it's okay to fill the blank in with "vote," and disrespectful to blacks to fill it in with anything else.

I say it's disrespectful no matter what you fill it in with - and the fact that it's TRUE when you fill it in with "vote" is a problem! No group of people that large is THAT similar on all the dimensions by which we choose to vote, just because of skin color.

[Rhylan]

Flaco, pretty sure that Colorado vote was 70/30 the other way.. but it was late last night so maybe I heard wrong.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by Rhylan

Silk & Chum -

Fill in the blank:

90% of Blacks ______ the same.

You guys say it's okay to fill the blank in with "vote," and disrespectful to blacks to fill it in with anything else.

I say it's disrespectful no matter what you fill it in with - and the fact that it's TRUE when you fill it in with "vote" is a problem! No group of people that large is THAT similar on all the dimensions by which we choose to vote, just because of skin color.

Fill in this blank:

Rhylan is now ______ baiting.....

And you wonder why I called you out? I am not even going to go there with you. We have told you, 92bDad and Murphy to let it go. You guys are looking really bad right now. Stop what you are trying to do. Seriously!!!! I will not let you drag us all down with your shameless acts..Let it go. Plus as you being a moderator you are crossing the line right now. Be a moderator...Thats what we WANT/NEED you to do here on this message board. You were chosen by DJ as a moderator, so please respect DJ on his decision.

[mary]

This is more personal rant than social commentary...but holy crap my boss has flipped his damn lid. He is freakin out right now as I type this (thankfully he's out of town freaking out).

"I've worked with minorities...I know what they'll do"

I can not believe I still work for this moron.

Need.New.Job.Soon.

[Flacolaco]

Flaco, pretty sure that Colorado vote was 70/30 the other way.. but it was late last night so maybe I heard wrong.

Yeah you're right...boy is that guy wrong in that link I posted...

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Al Gore won African-Americans by 90%. Obama 95%.

So maybe 5% of African-Americans cared about the color of Obama's skin. Otherwise, there is no proof that skin color made the difference.

It would be like saying old people like Mccain beacuse he is old and in their generation. Obama actually got 46% of people over 60. That is astounding.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

So maybe 5% of African-Americans cared about the color of Obama's skin. Otherwise, there is no proof that skin color made the difference. .

I don't think that's his point.

[Kirobaito]

In other news, HOW THE HECK DID ALASKANS JUST ELECT A CONVICTED FELON BACK TO THE US SENATE?

Good GOD.

[92bDad]

One can't fix the problem if one doesn't acknowledge the problem exists.

[Rhylan]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

I don't think that's his point.

It's not. People have a hard time getting their heads around it. This would've been a better point to make when there wasn't a black dude to vote for.

My point is that people might be voting for a guy or a party because of the color of THEIR skin, not the candidates' skin. And that the reason may be because they're being courted as a monolithic voting bloc because of the color of their skin. And I see that as falling for a trick, working for the man, whatever you want to call it. I just want to know why blacks go 92% for one party - doesn't matter which party - I want to know the reasoning of the 92% of those individuals and how they all manage to align with a single party.

And Silk, I'm not race baiting, I'm asking a legitimate question. I've been taught not to categorize people based on their skin color. Politically, we are categorizing all black voters into one bloc based on their skin color.

I'm sorry if it blows your mind that I'm thinking outside the box.

[kg_veteran]

I think you raise an interesting point. Do 92% of African-Americans really think alike? Do 92% of any ethnic group really think alike? There are other groups with which people voluntarily associate themselves (e.g., religious), and I don't think THOSE groups vote in a 92% bloc.

[92bDad]

Silk,

Let me try a different tact:

You have stated that you are black and that prior to this election you voted Republican. You also claim to vote for Obama based on the issues.

So what would it take for you and potentially other "Black" voters to change their vote in 2010 and vote for Republicans? How about in 2012, what do you need to see or hear from Republicans to vote for the Republican Candidate in 2012 running against the Democratic candidate?

[Dirkenstien]

92bDad, Murphy, and Rhylan have all been making good points here. Why others cannot answer questions or address their arguments through reasonable means is beyond me. It seems all Obama ambassadors here want to trump their little horns and ignore obvious problems associated with this election and with this country. Unbelievable.

[Usually Lurkin]

If you can guess, to a 90% accuracy, who somebody voted for based on the color of their skin, that's a problem.

This is sadly true of african americans in our country. How I read it is: it means either that the political system is using and abusing them, such that the needs and wishes of a large portion of them are not being addressed like they think they are, or it means that as a society, we treat some ethnic group so differently than other people that it is easy to craft a set of public policies that target that group.

[Big Boy Laroux]

Silk, seriously, you need to LET IT GO. I voted for Obama. But i don't believe ANYONE can deny that there were a large number of african-americans that registered to vote for the first time simply because another african-american was running for president.

Yes, this election was about more than race. But to act like race was not a part of it AT ALL is INCREDIBLY naive.

[Murphy3]

....or that a huge percentage of African Americans voted Democrat because the candidate was black as well.

UL, it's probably a combination of the three. Regardless, it isn't a step forward for our society.

Yeah, it is a step forward that so many caucasians were willing to vote for an African American. But, it's not a step forward that so many African Americans seemingly were willing to vote for Obama because of the color of his skin.

It's one step forward and one step back.

[Big Boy Laroux]

well, i do agree with statements that african-americans have always tended to vote democrat in the past. But it's the individuals that haven't bothered to register or vote in the past that I'm talking about.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by Rhylan

It's not. People have a hard time getting their heads around it. This would've been a better point to make when there wasn't a black dude to vote for.

My point is that people might be voting for a guy or a party because of the color of THEIR skin, not the candidates' skin. And that the reason may be because they're being courted as a monolithic voting bloc because of the color of their skin. And I see that as falling for a trick, working for the man, whatever you want to call it. I just want to know why blacks go 92% for one party - doesn't matter which party - I want to know the reasoning of the 92% of those individuals and how they all manage to align with a single party.

And Silk, I'm not race baiting, I'm asking a legitimate question. I've been taught not to categorize people based on their skin color. Politically, we are categorizing all black voters into one bloc based on their skin color.

I'm sorry if it blows your mind that I'm thinking outside the box.

Did you ask this question back when Al Gore got 90% of the black vote? Or did you not realize that blacks vote democrat until Obama won the presidency?

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

But it's the individuals that haven't bothered to register or vote in the past that I'm talking about.

Voters ages 18-25 also turned out record registration/voter numbers this election - did they vote for Obama because he's young?

Is that age-cist?

[Big Boy Laroux]

The young demographic turned out to register and vote because Obama's campaign specifically targeted them. Have you ever seen as much internet campaigning in the past? Facebook, for example.

My point is that you can't say race had no part of this. it's incredibly naive to do so. I would venture to say that there were rednecks in my home state of Tennessee who voted republican simply because Obama is black. Rednecks traditionally vote republican, but they could have had higher registration as well, to try and ensure that an african-american would not win.

Do we have a redneck demographic breakdown?

it's all speculation, but valid speculation in my opinion.

[Flacolaco]

Yeah I don't think it's about race so much as it was about offering 40% of the electorate free money for doing nothing. Everyone votes with their bank accounts (or lack thereof)