Official Rangers off season thread - Page 10 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

kg_veteran · 12-14-2010, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Here's the question.. do you put one in his ribs when the Rangers play the Phils?

Is there really a question?

alexamenos · 12-14-2010, 11:18 AM

[QUOTE=Male29Dan;1135973]Maybe the best option is to stay with the plan that led us to this point. Take a step back to take two steps forward. Use the money we could have spent this year for next year and hope guys internally can step it up.[QUOTE]

I think so. The approach to this season shouldn't hinge on last year's results. Stack your farm system with talent and see who rises to the top. Maybe in a few years we can have a San Fran Giants or Oakland A's type rotation...

kg_veteran · 12-14-2010, 11:46 AM

[quote=alexamenos;1135989][quote=Male29Dan;1135973]Maybe the best option is to stay with the plan that led us to this point. Take a step back to take two steps forward. Use the money we could have spent this year for next year and hope guys internally can step it up.

Quote:

I think so. The approach to this season shouldn't hinge on last year's results. Stack your farm system with talent and see who rises to the top. Maybe in a few years we can have a San Fran Giants or Oakland A's type rotation...

I think they have to stick with the game plan. They can't go for broke acting like they're the Yankees or Red Sox and trying to spend their way into annual contention.

alexamenos · 12-14-2010, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

I think they have to stick with the game plan. They can't go for broke acting like they're the Yankees or Red Sox and trying to spend their way into annual contention.

Yeah...how would we feel right now if Lee had lost Game 1 to the TB Rays and the Rangers never got out of the first round? We'd probably feel like the Rangers are on a damn good course and hope they continue right along that course rather than sink 25-30% of the budget into one 30-something arm.

Yeah the Rangers would never have made it to the Series had they not traded for Lee, but they never would have been in a position to make the deal for Lee had they spent the last several years going for broke acting like the Yankees or Red Sox.

LonghornDub · 12-14-2010, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Here's the question.. do you put one in his ribs when the Rangers play the Phils in the World Series?

Fixed.

kg_veteran · 12-14-2010, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexamenos

Yeah...how would we feel right now if Lee had lost Game 1 to the TB Rays and the Rangers never got out of the first round? We'd probably feel like the Rangers are on a damn good course and hope they continue right along that course rather than sink 25-30% of the budget into one 30-something arm.

Yeah the Rangers would never have made it to the Series had they not traded for Lee, but they never would have been in a position to make the deal for Lee had they spent the last several years going for broke acting like the Yankees or Red Sox.

Well said.

sike · 12-14-2010, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

Regarding Sike's contention, I disagree completely about both our competitiveness in the series and that 1-2 more wins would have meant anything else. Not to stir that up again - but just felt the need to add my 2c.

Now that the other shoe has dropped regarding the contract info, its pretty clear that money always talks.

Lee is in it for Lee...which is neither dishonorable nor honorable. Its just the reality of modern sports.

And I do NOT wish him any success. What are you guys thinking?? Sure, he owes the Rangers nothing, and now because he has refused the Rangers, he is the enemy. You don't stay friends with the guy who breaks your sister's heart.

As far as your opinion about the World Series's competitiveness...I expect that opinion from you.

And on the potential difference that losing in 7 instead of 5 could/would have had on Lee, that is pure speculation on all sides, and on issues of such a speculative nature, I'm willing to bet on my own insight into human nature. So there we can simply disagree...or "disagree completely".

sike · 12-14-2010, 01:49 PM

I'm not sure if you guys heard it this morning, but Uncle Norm talked about how the Royals think our best prospects are too far away right now (Could be just posturing?)...and he said that Tanner Sheppers was abysmal in second half at triple A last year (And has a history of injury).

sike · 12-14-2010, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexamenos

We'd probably feel like the Rangers are on a damn good course and hope they continue right along that course rather than sink 25-30% of the budget into one 30-something arm.

In his defense, its a pretty nice arm. But I agree completely. That much money/years to a middle to late/ish prime pitcher makes me very nervous.

I would much rather bet on multiple younger guys filling multiple holes...

jthig32 · 12-14-2010, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

I'm not sure if you guys heard it this morning, but Uncle Norm talked about how the Royals think our best prospects are too far away right now (Could be just posturing?)...and he said that Tanner Sheppers was abysmal in second half at triple A last year (And has a history of injury).

I would assume he meant that our best position prospects are too far away. And he's right.

Scheppers ran out of gas last year, but it was his first year in the minors. He's still a very strong bullpen prospect. But he does have an arm that people expect to blow up at some point. That's very true.

Murphy3 · 12-14-2010, 02:26 PM

I'd have to lean towards it being posturing by KC..
Kirkman isn't far away
Holland isn't far away
Scheppers even with a struggle last half of the season isn't far away.
Beltre isn't far away.
Moreland obviously isn't far away.
Perez is having some success at AA.. he isn't far away
Ogando has arrived and appears to have a special arm.

Trust me, teams such as KC don't look just at guys that are "prospects". They look guys that are already experiencing some success at the major league level such as Moreland, Ogando, and Holland. They want young and cheap talent.

jthig32 · 12-14-2010, 02:27 PM

So now there's confirmation from Greenberg and Daniels that had the Rangers guaranteed the seventh year, Lee would have signed here.

So clearly there's a mixture of money and comfort and winning all going together in his decision here.

And I don't agree with the sudden characterization that he was just in it for the money. He still left money on the table from the Yankees.

jthig32 · 12-14-2010, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

I'd have to lean towards it being posturing by KC..
Kirkman isn't far away
Holland isn't far away
Scheppers even with a struggle last half of the season isn't far away.
Beltre isn't far away.
Moreland obviously isn't far away.
Perez is having some success at AA.. he isn't far away
Ogando has arrived and appears to have a special arm.

Trust me, teams such as KC don't look just at guys that are "prospects". They look guys that are already experiencing some success at the major league level such as Moreland, Ogando, and Holland. They want young and cheap talent.

They want guys that are going to arrive in tandem with their current awesome farm system. So late this year and early next year, I would imagine. We definitely have the pitching to match that, but that's not their area of need.

We don't have any elite position prospects scheduled to get here during that window. Beltre just hit AA. He's at least two years away unless he really accelerates. Our best position prospect is a teenager.

It's certainly possible that they're just posturing but their need for position players (specifically up the middle) makes sense. I'm not sure we're a great fit for them.

FWIW, a couple hours ago a national writer tweeted that the Rangers made a strong run at Garza last night but the deal fell apart.

Male30Dan · 12-14-2010, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

As far as your opinion about the World Series's competitiveness...I expect that opinion from you.

You are starting to come off like the 47 year old being laughed at by Foxworthy while trying to remember answers to questions you haven't heard in ages. Let the 5th graders play please...

Male30Dan · 12-14-2010, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

FWIW, a couple hours ago a national writer tweeted that the Rangers made a strong run at Garza last night but the deal fell apart.

I would LOVE to know what we were offering...

sike · 12-14-2010, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

You are starting to come off like the 47 year old being laughed at by Foxworthy while trying to remember answers to questions you haven't heard in ages. Let the 5th graders play please...

A Jeff Foxworthy game show reference? Good one. Maybe go back to the camel toe jokes.

Or else add more than an off-handed $.02 to an existing conversation.

sike · 12-14-2010, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

So clearly there's a mixture of money and comfort and winning all going together in his decision here.

Agreed. He did what he thought was best for the Cliff Lee...nothing wrong with that.

sike · 12-14-2010, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

FWIW, a couple hours ago a national writer tweeted that the Rangers made a strong run at Garza last night but the deal fell apart.

So, once a deal falls apart, are they usually dead or are they just as likely reworked?

Murphy3 · 12-14-2010, 03:23 PM

Sometimes dead..sometimes reworked.

sike · 12-14-2010, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Sometimes dead..sometimes reworked.

Ask generic question....

muzak · 12-14-2010, 03:33 PM

God I hate Garza. Remember his temper tantrum escapades a few years back? Haven't heard of him being like that since. However, now that Lee is gone, I must say that I'm warming up to getting him if we can.

sike · 12-14-2010, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muzak

God I hate Garza. Remember his temper tantrum escapades a few year back? Haven't heard of him being like that since. However, now that Lee is gone, I must say that I'm warming up to getting him if we can.

Woah, this post took a sudden turn I wasn't expecting.

muzak · 12-14-2010, 03:46 PM

Well, you know...I can be persuaded. I once hated Tyson Chandler too.

Rhylan · 12-14-2010, 04:29 PM

A few years ago? Didn't Garza have a mini-meltdown in the ALDS?

I'd take him.. I think the Rangers have a strong enough clubhouse / culture vibe that one hot headed dude isn't too terrible. Although CJ already stresses me out with his unique form of knuckleheadedness as it is.

Male30Dan · 12-14-2010, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

A Jeff Foxworthy game show reference? Good one. Maybe go back to the camel toe jokes.

Or else add more than an off-handed $.02 to an existing conversation.

Hey bro, loosen up. It's not my fault you continue to stick to your guns despite the artillery being nothing more than cork:

muzak · 12-14-2010, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhylan

A few years ago? Didn't Garza have a mini-meltdown in the ALDS?

I'd take him.. I think the Rangers have a strong enough clubhouse / culture vibe that one hot headed dude isn't too terrible. Although CJ already stresses me out with his unique form of knuckleheadedness as it is.

I seem to recall some complaining from the dugout, but not much more. Perhaps I'm just not remembering. I do have a pretty terrible memory. I don't mind emotion at all. Grown adults, on the other hand, throwing gloves and pouting like a little leaguer is a little strange and off-putting. You are def right about the strength of the clubhouse. I certainly wouldn't worry about it. Although, he does spit an awful lot on the mound, LOL. It always grosses me out.

Male30Dan · 12-14-2010, 05:23 PM

From the "we already assumed as much" category...

Link...

sike · 12-14-2010, 05:42 PM

Substantive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

Hey bro, loosen up. It's not my fault you continue to stick to your guns despite the artillery being nothing more than cork

sike · 12-14-2010, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muzak

I don't mind emotion at all. Grown adults, on the other hand, throwing gloves and pouting like a little leaguer is a little strange and off-putting.

Agreed, though I will take passion over goofy any day.

Male30Dan · 12-14-2010, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

Substantive.

Likewise useful... I actually had to spread reputation there.

Male30Dan · 12-14-2010, 05:49 PM

So, what are the odds that we get Beltre? 3-1? 5-1? Is it incredibly likely that we pursue him hard and we are more like 50-50?

jthig32 · 12-14-2010, 05:50 PM

I don't think we're going to pursue him that hard, personally.

sike · 12-14-2010, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

So, what are the odds that we get Beltre? 3-1? 5-1? Is it incredibly likely that we pursue him hard and we are more like 50-50?

How much does is depending on moving Young?

I really hope they go after Beltre hotly...if they can keep the deal at all reasonable for the talent...I'm down.

That guy is good news.

Unless you think last year was a fluke.

sike · 12-14-2010, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I don't think we're going to pursue him that hard, personally.

Bc of talent not matching the $ required, bc of Young, or just lack of interest?

jthig32 · 12-14-2010, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

Bc of talent not matching the $ required, bc of Young, or just lack of interest?

More than anything I just think they're going to consider his contract too much. Last year was almost certainly an offensive outlier. For his career he's basically Mike Young at the plate with a much better glove. Which would be very, very valuable, but he's on the wrong side of thirty and is almost certainly going to get a gigantic contract.

I won't be shocked if they sign him, but I've read enough notes from people I trust that I now think they're not interested in giving him a mega deal.

And yes, I don't think moving Young is a small thing either. I don't think they'd ask him to learn a new position, but I also know that Young wouldn't be thrilled at DH.

I bet they focus on the trade market.

sike · 12-14-2010, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I don't think they'd ask him to learn a new position, but I also know that Young wouldn't be thrilled at DH.

I bet they focus on the trade market.

I bet they would also like to move that Young contract...ugh.

dalmations202 · 12-14-2010, 06:41 PM

Talk about an ultimate utility infielder -- Mike Young could be it, and DH when not needed in the field. Mgmt needs to sell him on this.

sike · 12-14-2010, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalmations202

Talk about an ultimate utility infielder -- Mike Young could be it, and DH when not needed in the field. Mgmt needs to sell him on this.

With all the moves they've asked him to make already...I wouldn't be shocked if they told him 3b would be the last.

dalmations202 · 12-14-2010, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

With all the moves they've asked him to make already...I wouldn't be shocked if they told him 3b would be the last.

I am guessing they did. The move among many got them to the Series.

Next move MY still gets paid, but he plays every infield position and DH. I mean 1st is probably the least taxing of all the infield positions, and he has been gold gloved at 2nd and SS, he can play 3 -- and although he had a down year, he still hits pretty well for avg.

Talk about not losing much to switch out a player.....MY could be the utility infielder that would allow basically any moves needed during a game, and could still DH as well.

Five-ofan · 12-15-2010, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalmations202

I am guessing they did. The move among many got them to the Series.

Next move MY still gets paid, but he plays every infield position and DH. I mean 1st is probably the least taxing of all the infield positions, and he has been gold gloved at 2nd and SS, he can play 3 -- and although he had a down year, he still hits pretty well for avg.

Talk about not losing much to switch out a player.....MY could be the utility infielder that would allow basically any moves needed during a game, and could still DH as well.

Young never won a gg at 2b and shouldnt have won one at second. I dont really mind this plan much if andrus and kinsler stay healthy but its important to understand how bad defensively Young would be at the MI spots. Both andrus and Kinsler appear to be +10 defenders at their respective positions(to me though they were both well below that last year) Young is likely a -15 defender at second where his arm cant help make up for his terrible range and a -15 defender at short. So basically you are looking at a gigantic dropoff defensively playing young at either of those positions. Can he play them in a pinch? Sure. Is it pretty much a season damning move if you have to put him out there for more than 20 or so games? YES