Looking to offseason: I want Lance Stephenson (and other musings)

[sefant77]

Signing Deng as FA and trading Josh for pretty much every contract you dont need anymore...including Calderon (yes i know, after yesterdays game...but he has 3y left with being 32...and the way Harris is playing). Calderon + Wright or Dalembert + Ellington and the numbers work. If you cant sign Gortat, then offer pick + trade exception for Sanders/Asik.

So you pretty much just trade salaries to get Smith...and maybe pay 2-3m extra. But thats fine for his potential.

SF and PF rotation Deng/Dirk/Smith (maybe Crowder back for the minimum). Vince back as SG. Another cheap guard and floor spacer (Morrow type).

Harris 3m
Ellis 9m
Deng 12m
Dirk 10m
Josh 14m
Gortat/Sanders/Asik 8-11m
Wright or Dalembert 4-5m
Vince 1-2m


Thats your core rotation of eight players going for ~65m. Fill the roster and you can even stay below the LT.

[jthig32]

I just think you're limiting yourself so much with that roster. You have a great coach who can mix and match with the best of them, and you're leaving him with only one way to play. There's only two people on that entire roster that can hit a three reliably.

[sefant77]

The point is pretty much:

Do you take Calderon, his spacing and shooting but terrible defense or Josh Smith with his incredible defensive potential? Dirk should go down to 28-30min, which means you need a real PF option. Thats why i like the potential Deng/Dirk/Smith rotation at SF/PF.

I mean Calderon as one of your three fixed backcourt player and you are limiting your defense all the time. And its just getting worse the next three years. Combine this with 36y+ old Dirk...yikes.

Harris working like Jason Kidd on his three, Vince, another Morrow/Ellington type (Pop is digging them out all the time: Green, Neal, Beli etc) and i think you are fine...

[Floppy]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I don't buy for a second that Shawn Marion's signing with us or anyone for sub 3Mil.

Also, floppy, I think you're making an incorrect assumption on how easy it will be to trade for cap space. Take a look at the Cunningham and Brewer trades as examples of what it takes to clear cap space.

Melo would obviously be a huge get. He's not on the level of Lebron and Durant but he's just underneath it. And he happens to be an elite rebounder at SF, which is one of the areas we need eliteness in to make up for Dirk's current deficiencies. He obviously has his draw backs but I'm not sure how anyone can look at what Monta has done this season and not drool at what Carlisle could do with Carmelo and Dirk.

However, imo, if you somehow land Carmelo I think the play is to trade Monta for a quality return that allows you (either in the return or in a signing) to get a defensive SG and defensive C and you keep Calderon. Carmelo is (justifiably) going to dominate the ball and can run a devastating PnR with Dirk just fine. I think Monta *could* fit, but your best use of assets would be to move his very valuable contract and keep Jose to space the floor.

All that said, I think there's basically no chance Carmelo considers coming here. I think the idea of the Bulls will make too much sense, and I think the lure of Phil Jackson will also keep NY in play as well. I mean we can't even give him the max without some maneuvering.

I'm probably overreacting to two games and sentimentality, but what Devin is doing right now has me pondering keeping Jose and Monta, trading Wright and Ellington for Chandler, using the remaining ~13Mil (assuming salary cap comes in at ~63) to split between Deng and Harris and finding a quality backup PF on the cheap. (And giving the room exception to Vince, although his role reduces significantly if our starting SF doesn't play half his minutes at PF)

I'm probably nuts, but man, if Casey Smith thinks he can keep Tyson healthy, I find that concept very tempting. Plus, if the Mavs are successful with that roster I could see Tyson taking a big pay cut like Dirk to stay where's had the most success and giving the Mavs more flexibility moving forward.

Marion for sub $3 Million .. Now while I agree he probably will look for more . But I definetly could see Marion returning for the $2 Million suggested if it kept the current team together while adding Melo and Chandler .

1-The No state Taxes puts some of the money back in his pocket

2-He already has a $10 Million Dallas Mansion . Basing it off his tastes he could easily pay that xtra million he may get from another team on a place to live in that city

3-Play on a Title contender for the next few years until he retires


As for it being hard to create cap space ?

1-Ellington is not a useless player
2-He's not paid that much
3-Adding $3.3 million the team trading for him gets a young useful player with his salary paid and still pockets $600,000

I don't think it would be hard to dump Ellington at all

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by sefant77

The point is pretty much:

Do you take Calderon, his spacing and shooting but terrible offense or Josh Smith with his incredible defensive potential? Dirk should go down to 28-30min, which means you need a real PF option. Thats why i like the potential Deng/Dirk/Smith rotation at SF/PF.

I mean Calderon as one of your three fixed backcourt player and you are limiting your defense all the time. And its just getting worse the next three years.

Harris working like Jason Kidd on his three, Vince, another Morrow/Ellington type (Pop is digging them out all the time: Green, Neal, Beli etc) and i think you are fine...

Well, I disagree, and I suspect the Mavs aren't touching Smith with a 10 foot pole.

[Floppy]

Originally Posted by sefant77

The point is pretty much:

Do you take Calderon, his spacing and shooting but terrible offense or Josh Smith with his incredible defensive potential? Dirk should go down to 28-30min, which means you need a real PF option. Thats why i like the potential Deng/Dirk/Smith rotation at SF/PF.

I mean Calderon as one of your three fixed backcourt player and you are limiting your defense all the time. And its just getting worse the next three years.

Harris working like Jason Kidd on his three, Vince, another Morrow/Ellington type (Pop is digging them out all the time: Green, Neal, Beli etc) and i think you are fine...

If you want defense just sign Deng . If you need a backup stretch 4 sign Anthony Tolliver . If I am getting rid of Calderon it wouldn't be for Josh Smith at $14 Million instead I would spend that on Lowry

[Floppy]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Well, I disagree, and I suspect the Mavs aren't touching Smith with a 10 foot pole.

I agree too many better options without $14 Million price tag that really doesn't fit with this team

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Floppy

Marion for sub $3 Million .. Now while I agree he probably will look for more . But I definetly could see Marion returning for the $2 Million suggested if it kept the current team together while adding Melo and Chandler .

1-The No state Taxes puts some of the money back in his pocket

2-He already has a $10 Million Dallas Mansion . Basing it off his tastes he could easily pay that xtra million he may get from another team on a place to live in that city

3-Play on a Title contender for the next few years until he retires


As for it being hard to create cap space ?

1-Ellington is not a useless player
2-He's not paid that much
3-Adding $3.3 million the team trading for him gets a young useful player with his salary paid and still pockets $600,000

I don't think it would be hard to dump Ellington at all

You're being far to logical on the money front with Shawn. It's going to be about respect. It's the same reason Dirk won't play for the minimum. Respect is important to these guys. Someone's going to give Shawn that MLE, at the very least.

As for Ellington, I agree he's not a useless player but wouldn't just assume they'll find a taker for him with nothing in return. And in one scenario you had someone taking Ellington and Mekel.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Well, I disagree, and I suspect the Mavs aren't touching Smith with a 10 foot pole.

Well im expecting this too. 14m is too heavy....i think with 8-9 they would take the gamble.

[CanadianMavsFan]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Signing Deng as FA and trading Josh for pretty much every contract you dont need anymore...including Calderon (yes i know, after yesterdays game...but he has 3y left with being 32...and the way Harris is playing). Calderon + Wright or Dalembert + Ellington and the numbers work. If you cant sign Gortat, then offer pick + trade exception for Sanders/Asik.

So you pretty much just trade salaries to get Smith...and maybe pay 2-3m extra. But thats fine for his potential.

SF and PF rotation Deng/Dirk/Smith (maybe Crowder back for the minimum). Vince back as SG. Another cheap guard and floor spacer (Morrow type).

Harris 3m
Ellis 9m
Deng 12m
Dirk 10m
Josh 14m
Gortat/Sanders/Asik 8-11m
Wright or Dalembert 4-5m
Vince 1-2m


Thats your core rotation of eight players going for ~65m. Fill the roster and you can even stay below the LT.

I'd stay away from Josh if we managed to snag both Deng and one of either Gortat/Sanders/Asik. At that point the team would have the personnel to be a top 10 defensive team and I imagine Carlisle would want to duplicate a 2011 Mavericks type of squad. Filling the rest with specialty players (perimeter defenders who can hit the three with consistency) would probably be the best course of action.

[j0Shi]

Josh Smith again? C'mon...

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Well, I disagree, and I suspect the Mavs aren't touching Smith with a 10 foot pole.

Nor should any sane team for that matter.

[Floppy]

Originally Posted by jthig32

You're being far to logical on the money front with Shawn. It's going to be about respect. It's the same reason Dirk won't play for the minimum. Respect is important to these guys. Someone's going to give Shawn that MLE, at the very least.

As for Ellington, I agree he's not a useless player but wouldn't just assume they'll find a taker for him with nothing in return. And in one scenario you had someone taking Ellington and Mekel.

I doubt Marion will feel disrespected for $1 Million less if it brought Melo and Chandler here . And if he is then fine we wont re-sign him and that's okay because with Melo / Carter / Crowder you really don't need Marion . Its entirely up to him does he want to stay living in Dallas and playing for a contender or does he want to go somewhere else for a few extra dollars that don't add up much after factoring in Taxes and Housing .


15 Teams have atleast $6 Million in Cap Space
12 of those teams have $12+ Million
7 teams have atleast $20 Million


Boston
Pacers
Bucks
Toronto
Denver
Warriors
Lakers
Memphis
Okc


The 9 Teams above have Trade exceptions to take either Ellington or Mekel


The 6 teams below have Trade exceptions to take Mekl


Washington
Clippers
Sacramento
Spurs
Chicago
Heat


Before July 1st Dallas can add $3.2 Million in a trade
After July 1st Dallas can add $3.3 Million in a trade


Ellington makes $2,771,340
Mekel makes $816,482


If both traded before July 1st their total salary would be $3,142,180 so Dallas could trade both to the same team with $3.2 Million


After July 1st their total salary is $3,587,822 and Dallas can add $3.3 Million


I think its very possible that a team like Utah or the Bucks takes both Ellington and Mekel with both of their contracts paid .


Like I said we can trade Ellington + $3.2 Million in June for cap space and then trade Mekel in July with $2 Million cah for cap space


Teams over the cap with trade exceptions may take Ellington if for nothing else it gives them another expiring contract that could be used to match salaries in a bigger trade

[jthig32]

I understand all the numbers and I understand the rules on sending money in trades. And I'm certainly not saying it's impossible that one or both could be traded. But Dom Jones stayed on this team for a long time. So did Roddy after he'd fallen out of favor.

You just don't see these kinds of moves very often, for whatever reason. I assume it's because teams aren't jumping to help another team's cap issues. There's a lot of guys out there with Ellington's profile. So why would a team help the Mavs instead of just going and signing someone similar? For $3Mil? Maybe. But I wouldn't bet on it.

[Kante]

No way i want Josh Smith...

[spreedom]

Josh Smith was one of the worst rotation players in the NBA this past season, bar none... I have no interest in seeing him in a Mavs jersey.

[Melonhead]

Ive never understood the fascination with Josh Smith. His left hand dunks are kind of cool I guess. He had his worst season of career this season. Its not getting better from here.

[sike]

I'm still in favor of the Mavs giving Lance Stephenson a HARD look this off season. There is some crazy for sure and a LOT of growing up that must happen, but a guard who plays D and rebounds like that is an amazing prospect.

If he is reformable, then I'd strongly consider going after him.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Ive never understood the fascination with Josh Smith. His left hand dunks are kind of cool I guess. He had his worst season of career this season. Its not getting better from here.

Probably too much fantasy basketball

Points, rebounds, blocks, steals, assists

[Floppy]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I understand all the numbers and I understand the rules on sending money in trades. And I'm certainly not saying it's impossible that one or both could be traded. But Dom Jones stayed on this team for a long time. So did Roddy after he'd fallen out of favor.

You just don't see these kinds of moves very often, for whatever reason. I assume it's because teams aren't jumping to help another team's cap issues. There's a lot of guys out there with Ellington's profile. So why would a team help the Mavs instead of just going and signing someone similar? For $3Mil? Maybe. But I wouldn't bet on it.

The Mavs were over the cap by $20 Million when Dojo and Roddy were here so there was no reason to dump either for cap space . And Ellington is worlds better than Dojo . Teams dump players all the time . There will be teams with leftover cap space or trade exceptions that would love to test drive Ellington for free .

[Floppy]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I understand all the numbers and I understand the rules on sending money in trades. And I'm certainly not saying it's impossible that one or both could be traded. But Dom Jones stayed on this team for a long time. So did Roddy after he'd fallen out of favor.

You just don't see these kinds of moves very often, for whatever reason. I assume it's because teams aren't jumping to help another team's cap issues. There's a lot of guys out there with Ellington's profile. So why would a team help the Mavs instead of just going and signing someone similar? For $3Mil? Maybe. But I wouldn't bet on it.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--ro...lkA1ZJUDQwMl8x

[jay3189]

Best case scenario for Mavs this offseason is going after Loul Deng and Greg Monroe. Loul Deng is a legit top 10 defender, who can slash to the basket, he is pretty good at everything except hitting 3's consistently. Greg Monroe is a 6'10 big body who can score from the post and is a good passer. Mavs have a history of big men with bad hands, Eric Dampier, Brendan Haywood, Samuel Dalembert. So getting Deng and Monroe would be huge for us for defense and Big man skills

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by sike

I'm still in favor of the Mavs giving Lance Stephenson a HARD look this off season. There is some crazy for sure and a LOT of growing up that must happen, but a guard who plays D and rebounds like that is an amazing prospect.

If he is reformable, then I'd strongly consider going after him.

He's looking more and more like the cancer in the Pacers locker room and the main reason for the pacers collapsing. I want no part, and he just doesnt fit that Mavs team mold in my mind. Multiple arguments/fights with teammates on more than one occasion? Hell no.

[Floppy]

Originally Posted by jay3189

Best case scenario for Mavs this offseason is going after Loul Deng and Greg Monroe. Loul Deng is a legit top 10 defender, who can slash to the basket, he is pretty good at everything except hitting 3's consistently. Greg Monroe is a 6'10 big body who can score from the post and is a good passer. Mavs have a history of big men with bad hands, Eric Dampier, Brendan Haywood, Samuel Dalembert. So getting Deng and Monroe would be huge for us for defense and Big man skills

I agree we should go hard for Monroe and Deng ( I would even take Ariza ) . Everyone keeps saying Dirk cant play with Monroe . Well in 2-3 years he probably wont be playing with Dirk .

But for now Dirk with Monroe

Dirk 30 MPG / Backup PF 18 MPG
Monroe 30 MPG / Wright 18 MPG


Considering how well Wright plays with Harris / Carter / Dirk then why not just play Wright and Dirk together 18 MPG that leaves just 12 MPG that Monroe and Dirk play together . And I still think they will play fine together . Monroe will only be 24 years old and has played for shitty teams so theoretically he could be coached up some by Carlisle and become a decent defender . On Offense I think his low post scoring could absolutely help the Mavs .

[Floppy]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

He's looking more and more like the cancer in the Pacers locker room and the main reason for the pacers collapsing. I want no part, and he just doesnt fit that Mavs team mold in my mind. Multiple arguments/fights with teammates on more than one occasion? Hell no.

Yea it just wouldn't work or be worth it .


1-Unless they plan on trading Calderon and running Ellis at PG then he has no spot . I doubt Ellis or Stephenson will want to come off the bench .

2-I wouldn't trade Ellis to get Stephenson . And even if I would have before I definitely wouldn't do it no with his problems . We could go from Ellis ( Perfect locker room guy that Dirk loves and seem to fit with . To a possible lockeroom cancer )


If we were trading Calderon and making Ellis the PG I would consider but not for Ellis to go to the bench or to be traded .

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Floppy

I agree we should go hard for Monroe and Deng ( I would even take Ariza ) . Everyone keeps saying Dirk cant play with Monroe . Well in 2-3 years he probably wont be playing with Dirk .

But for now Dirk with Monroe

Dirk 30 MPG / Backup PF 18 MPG
Monroe 30 MPG / Wright 18 MPG


Considering how well Wright plays with Harris / Carter / Dirk then why not just play Wright and Dirk together 18 MPG that leaves just 12 MPG that Monroe and Dirk play together . And I still think they will play fine together . Monroe will only be 24 years old and has played for shitty teams so theoretically he could be coached up some by Carlisle and become a decent defender . On Offense I think his low post scoring could absolutely help the Mavs .

It's not that Dirk can't play with Monroe, it's that Monroe can't play defense worth a damn... And in this league, having a center who can't defend is kind of like having a point guard who can't run an offense - it's going to get you nowhere.

[sefant77]

Okay, do not trade Calderon. And Harris shouldnt get more than the 3y/9m for sure. Better 2y/6m.

[jumperh]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I disagree, and I also think people overvalue what Calderon brings to the table. So far this season, he has been a great 3 point shooter and takes care of the ball well...and? I doubt a top 5 coach would continuously put the ball in Monta's hands if Calderon was such a great pass first pg. Monta just simply creates more scoring opportunities than Calderon.

Bro change your nickname and then we talk... Devin harris with his 0-4 in yesterday's game and doing nothing in the court, for sure he can play the PG better than Calderon...

Ps: btw in the last 6 minutes nobody passed the ball to Calderon I guess that's why we lost the game, with f*cking monta 6-20 and Dirk 7-19... you better not pass the ball.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by jumperh

Bro change your nickname and then we talk... Devin harris with his 0-4 in yesterday's game and doing nothing in the court, for sure he can play the PG better than Calderon...

Ps: btw in the last 6 minutes nobody passed the ball to Calderon I guess that's why we lost the game, with fucking monta 6-20 and Dirk 7-19... you better not pass the ball.

1. I posted that back in January, and the discussion was about Calderon and Monta and their trade worth for something like Lance Stephenson. It really had nothing to do with Harris. I guess indirectly?
2. If you're saying that Calderon has been better than Harris this series, then you won't get any argument from me.
3. I created this name in 2004, and it still isn't beyond the realm of possibility that he might start again...although unlikely. Still, I like Harris...so what?

[EricaLubarsky]

We may not have a lot of resources, but I'm as excited for this offseason as much as I've been any offseason since 2009 or 2010. Dirk, Marion and Carter are surely aging, but we have a consistent core, some cap space, a couple of second rounders this year and we can now trade our 2015 first rounder.

Perhaps we bring Marion/Dirk back on smaller contracts, make a splash with 1-2 free agents and try to draft well in a strong draft. Should be a lot of fun.

[MaverickGold]

Originally Posted by jumperh

Bro change your nickname and then we talk... Devin harris with his 0-4 in yesterday's game and doing nothing in the court, for sure he can play the PG better than Calderon...

Ps: btw in the last 6 minutes nobody passed the ball to Calderon I guess that's why we lost the game, with f*cking monta 6-20 and Dirk 7-19... you better not pass the ball.

Wow. Someone has anger and message board reading issues.

Harris is on the court for defense, btw.

[jumperh]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

1. I posted that back in January, and the discussion was about Calderon and Monta and their trade worth for something like Lance Stephenson. It really had nothing to do with Harris. I guess indirectly?
2. If you're saying that Calderon has been better than Harris this series, then you won't get any argument from me.
3. I created this name in 2004, and it still isn't beyond the realm of possibility that he might start again...although unlikely. Still, I like Harris...so what?

Sorry about the time of your post didn't saw that though it was a new post.

Ps: Calderon has played this series better than harris except game 1.

[sike]

I honestly think at this point, Ellis has sealed his spot as a Mav for the near future.

If this is what he is, we're lucky to have him (especially on THIS contract).

[diop it like its hot]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11...e-agent-market

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by diop it like its hot

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11...e-agent-market

GOAT username.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

GOAT username.

Co-sign.