Dallas Mavericks Offseason Thread - Page 111 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

muzak · 07-12-2009, 11:04 PM

Redd for Damp? sign me up! How could you not take that deal?

Rick41 · 07-12-2009, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkwitzki

Rather take McGrady than Redd, injury wise..

wat?

Rick41 · 07-12-2009, 11:07 PM

I wouldn't want to trade Damp just yet even if we have Gortat locked down. Imagine the rotation of Gortat/Damp at the 5 going up against the bigger teams in the west? And if for any reason it just doesn't seem to be working, trade damp by the deadline.

StackAttack · 07-12-2009, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs

It's not even a rumor on poopshype or poopsworld, and both those sites aren't all that reliable. So for now we should all just ignore the rumor.

Why does everyone crap on hoopshype? I don't frequent the site or anything, but isn't it just a bunch of quotes from actually reliable sources? What's the problem?

BGMaverick9 · 07-12-2009, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

I'm not saying I would do it...but you guys severely undervalue Redd/ overvalue Jet. You do realize Redd scored 27 PPG a few years ago right? He's a superior scorer to Jet, he can drive, he gets to the line, he has a better midrange game. Oh, and he gets to the line. He also shoots a similar 3pt% as the main scoring option on a bad team. And he's an actual SG with SG size.

What you said can hold up but its hard to say all those things when he can't stay out on the court as much as some others can. He's basically missed a full year out of the past 2 years, that's a lot of time to be missing due to injury.

Plus you're highly suspect behind Gortat at the center spot. And you've got a major surplus of SGs or guys that can play the position. That doesn't necessarily do you favors when you're then trying to trade one of those excess players off.

BGMaverick9 · 07-12-2009, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StackAttack

Why does everyone crap on hoopshype? I don't frequent the site or anything, but isn't it just a bunch of quotes from actually reliable sources? What's the problem?

I don't have a problem with that one...poopsworld is where it's pointed toward.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 07-12-2009, 11:12 PM

Ok i take back the diss on hoopshype. But regardless, the rumor is not there. And they seem to post just about any rumor from any article. So to me it isn't a rumor. (yet)

StackAttack · 07-12-2009, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muzak

Redd for Damp? sign me up! How could you not take that deal?

1) Redd's injury woes
2) Redd + JET is redundant
3) Don't know about Gortat just yet
4) Damp's contract value could REALLY help if we save it one more year to bring in a Joe Johnson type

grndmstr_c · 07-12-2009, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

I'm not saying I would do it...but you guys severely undervalue Redd/ overvalue Jet. You do realize Redd scored 27 PPG a few years ago right? He's a superior scorer to Jet, he can drive, he gets to the line, he has a better midrange game. Oh, and he gets to the line. He also shoots a similar 3pt% as the main scoring option on a bad team. And he's an actual SG with SG size.

Re: JET and the midrange game, please see the following:
http://www.82games.com/0809/FGSORT7.HTM

That's not to say that Redd *if healthy* wouldn't be an upgrade. But lets not overlook what JET does well, either.

muzak · 07-13-2009, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StackAttack

1) Redd's injury woes
2) Redd + JET is redundant
3) Don't know about Gortat just yet
4) Damp's contract value could REALLY help if we save it one more year to bring in a Joe Johnson type

1) risk vs reward
2) so what, any time you can add talent w/out giving much
3) likely going to happen, but i'm assuming it's already done by this trade
4) redd could help us this year

gortat/dirk/marion/jho/kidd

with redd and terry

a chance i'm willing to take.
stupid not to take a chance on that team.

BPo001 · 07-13-2009, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muzak

1) risk vs reward
2) so what, any time you can add talent w/out giving much
3) likely going to happen, but i'm assuming it's already done by this trade
4) redd could help us this year

gortat/dirk/marion/jho/kidd

with redd and terry

a chance i'm willing to take.
stupid not to take a chance on that team.

Who said Redd can be had for nothing? Just because we can throw some scrubs together and make contracts work doesn't mean the Bucks will take it. Redd doesn't fit as long as we have Terry. Do you want to see Terry at the point? I sure as hell don't. Does anyone think Redd really wants to come off the bench?

Dtownsfinest · 07-13-2009, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Re: JET and the midrange game, please see the following:
http://www.82games.com/0809/FGSORT7.HTM

That's not to say that Redd *if healthy* wouldn't be an upgrade. But lets not overlook what JET does well, either.

What value did JET have to us in the post season last year when he couldn't get a decent shot up? That's where the comparisons in IMO. If a team decides to gameplan against Redd he's still going to light them up. With JET its just a lost cause. His game is too reliant on the catch and shoot. I think a acquisition of Redd would even make JET that much better. I like the idea of them getting minutes alongside each other. That could be scary. You definitely can't double either one of them on the perimeter.

Dtownsfinest · 07-13-2009, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

Who said Redd can be had for nothing? Just because we can throw some scrubs together and make contracts work doesn't mean the Bucks will take it. Redd doesn't fit as long as we have Terry. Do you want to see Terry at the point? I sure as hell don't. Does anyone think Redd really wants to come off the bench?

I don't think Redd wants to come off the bench but I don't think he has to. Marion and Howard would have to battle it out for the 3 spot. I'm more afraid of the idea of Josh being our 2 than Terry playing point. I don't think Terry is a bad point guard. Especially coming off the bench. Its probably not realistic to get Redd in here and actually think Marion or Josh wouldn't mind coming off the bench. But taking playing time out of the equation it definitely wouldn't hurt this team as far as what they'd do on the court.

RoddyB#3 · 07-13-2009, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

Who said Redd can be had for nothing? Just because we can throw some scrubs together and make contracts work doesn't mean the Bucks will take it. Redd doesn't fit as long as we have Terry. Do you want to see Terry at the point? I sure as hell don't. Does anyone think Redd really wants to come off the bench?

Wouldn't Redd and Terry be our version of Ray Allen and Eddie House. Even Detroit looks like they are going to have two shooters in Hamilton and Gordon. We need a perimeter player in the starting lineup. Kidd was the only reliable shooter on the perimeter who starts, and he doesn't even want to shoot. Terry is our scoring punch off the bench. I think it's great to have two shooters. Orlando made it to the finals with shooters and one big basically. I don't see why people keep saying we can't have Redd and Terry

Dtownsfinest · 07-13-2009, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoddyB#3

Wouldn't Redd and Terry be our version of Ray Allen and Eddie House. Even Detroit looks like they are going to have two shooters in Hamilton and Gordon. We need a perimeter player in the starting lineup. Kidd was the only reliable shooter on the perimeter who starts, and he doesn't even want to shoot. Terry is our scoring punch off the bench. I think it's great to have two shooters. Orlando made it to the finals with shooters and one big basically. I don't see why people keep saying we can't have Redd and Terry

I think if there's a problem its the lack of minutes. I think you risk a potential unhappy locker room when it comes to distributing minutes between Kidd, JET, Marion, Josh, Redd and Barea. Four of those guys are going to want atleast 30 minutes a night.

RoddyB#3 · 07-13-2009, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I think if there's a problem its the lack of minutes. I think you risk a potential unhappy locker room when it comes to distributing minutes between Kidd, JET, Marion, Josh, Redd and Barea. Four of those guys are going to want atleast 30 minutes a night.

That's where I agree with you. I have no idea how we would work the minutes with those guys. My argument is for Redd, and that he would be a good fit with this team. I'm not big on trading Josh right now either. Unless the FO has some master plan. I doubt we see a move for Redd.

Dtownsfinest · 07-13-2009, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoddyB#3

That's where I agree with you. I have no idea how we would work the minutes with those guys. My argument is for Redd, and that he would be a good fit with this team. I'm not big on trading Josh right now either. Unless the FO has some master plan. I doubt we see a move for Redd.

Yea. I wonder do we trade the Damp chip? Because at this point the only need is a 2 guard and a big man if we deal him. Maybe we just let him run off the books?

sike · 07-13-2009, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Yea. I wonder do we trade the Damp chip? Because at this point the only need is a 2 guard and a big man if we deal him. Maybe we just let him run off the books?

if you don't have Josh Howard as your starting 2 guard next season...it better be because you traded him, bc that guy doesn't need to be a bench player.

Dirkenstien · 07-13-2009, 01:10 PM

My guess siHoward won't be going anywhere this season. If Howard can pull off playing the 2 then we'll have a very solid back court. No need to jump the gun on a trade if what we have works.

dalmations202 · 07-13-2009, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

My guess siHoward won't be going anywhere this season. If Howard can pull off playing the 2 then we'll have a very solid back court. No need to jump the gun on a trade if what we have works.

The answer to this question, and the question about how good Gortat really is, will determine the championship, IMO.

If both play at an extremely high level, Dallas contends. If JHo can't play the 2 or Gortat doesn't work out, then we are a mid playoff level team at best.

sike · 07-13-2009, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalmations202

The answer to this question, and the question about how good Gortat really is, will determine the championship, IMO.

If both play at an extremely high level, Dallas contends. If JHo can't play the 2 or Gortat doesn't work out, then we are a mid playoff level team at best.

I think if Josh is just healthy and Gortat comes to Dallas and can handle the heavier load of minutes, the mammoth addition of Shawn Marion gets us very close to the Lakers and maybe equal with Denver/SA.

I'm not sure Howard has to do anything he hasn't done in the past (he is a very solid player)...just stay healthy and don't get caught smoking pot during the season. I have no clue how good Gortat is, buy I KNOW he will step on the floor and be a better finishing option we've had at the 5 in years.

Dirkenstien · 07-13-2009, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

I think if Josh is just healthy and Gortat comes to Dallas and can handle the heavier load of minutes, the mammoth addition of Shawn Marion gets us very close to the Lakers and maybe equal with Denver/SA.

I'm not sure Howard has to do anything he hasn't done in the past (he is a very solid player)...just stay healthy and don't get caught smoking pot during the season. I have no clue how good Gortat is, buy I KNOW he will step on the floor and be a better finishing option we've had at the 5 in years.

Agreed, and if Howard doesn't work out this season we look to trade him in 2010 in a package for a superstar talent like Joe Johnson or Wade. We're really in a very good situation.

ShaggyDirk · 07-13-2009, 01:34 PM

Joe Johnson a super star? I don't see it.

sike · 07-13-2009, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaggyDirk

Joe Johnson a super star? I don't see it.

I agree, he doesn't have the required ESPN flash to be a super star...but he does have the game of a go to option at 2 spot.

I love his game, but I wouldn't call him a superstar. He isn't one of the 8-10 best players in the league for example.

Dtownsfinest · 07-13-2009, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaggyDirk

Joe Johnson a super star? I don't see it.

Isn't he Dirk at the 2 guard spot though? I mean this honestly. What's the difference between Dirk and Joe? Or do you not consider Dirk a superstar?

MX425 · 07-13-2009, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Isn't he Dirk at the 2 guard spot though? I mean this honestly. What's the difference between Dirk and Joe? Or do you not consider Dirk a superstar?

MVP? I think that is what seperates them.

Dtownsfinest · 07-13-2009, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MX425

MVP? I think that is what seperates them.

Nash was MVP as well. I assume that means Nash is a superstar? I'm not comparing their careers. Dirk has had the better career. I'm comparing their games. I'd even go further to say that Joe is more of all around player than Dirk is though I think Dirk is the better player if that makes any sense. Joe can defend pretty well. Rebounds decently. He can score from anywhere on the field. Doesn't get to the line as much as you'd like from someone who dominates the ball like he does though. He's not flashy but is that what we consider a superstar? If he's flashy? Joe Johnson has put the Hawks on his back and has gotten them to the post season two years straight. Granted, not much success other than taking the Celtics to 7 games 2 seasons ago.

grndmstr_c · 07-13-2009, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Isn't he Dirk at the 2 guard spot though? I mean this honestly. What's the difference between Dirk and Joe? Or do you not consider Dirk a superstar?

Nobody's Dirk other than Dirk. At any position.

What sets Johnson apart is his passing. Arguably the best non-PG distributor in the NBA.

nowhereman · 07-13-2009, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Nash was MVP as well. I assume that means Nash is a superstar? I'm not comparing their careers. Dirk has had the better career. I'm comparing their games. I'd even go further to say that Joe is more of all around player than Dirk is though I think Dirk is the better player if that makes any sense. Joe can defend pretty well. Rebounds decently. He can score from anywhere on the field. Doesn't get to the line as much as you'd like from someone who dominates the ball like he does though. He's not flashy but is that what we consider a superstar? If he's flashy? Joe Johnson has put the Hawks on his back and has gotten them to the post season two years straight. Granted, not much success other than taking the Celtics to 7 games 2 seasons ago.

Listen to yourself and be embarassed. You're talking about the best power forward in the world.

mavs777 · 07-13-2009, 02:11 PM

Joe Johnson is a good player, he isn't a bonehead, but he does take some bad shots (kind of like J.R Smith, but like J.r he can make a good % of them), if his shot selection was a little different I would consider him a top ten player.

As for Redd for Dampier, I was just googling it, one guy said it was false but then later on said he is getting mixed reports. Laker fans aren't all stupid.

http://lakers.topbuzz.com/PNphpBB2-v...c-t-28557.html

Dtownsfinest · 07-13-2009, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Nobody's Dirk other than Dirk. At any position.

What sets Johnson apart is his passing. Arguably the best non-PG distributor in the NBA.

What do you mean no one is Dirk? Dirk's a power foward who plays like a 2 guard. Its unheard of for a big man but I wouldn't say he just invented the wheel with his gameplay.

But once again, what weakness does Joe Johnson have in his game? Its not about comparing him to Dirk. I'm just trying to figure out how someone can not say he's not a superstar.

Quote:

Listen to yourself and be embarassed. You're talking about the best power forward in the world.

No actually i'm talking about Joe Johnson.

Thespiralgoeson · 07-13-2009, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

What do you mean no one is Dirk? Dirk's a power foward who plays like a 2 guard. Its unheard of for a big man but I wouldn't say he just invented the wheel with his gameplay.

But once again, what weakness does Joe Johnson have in his game? Its not about comparing him to Dirk. I'm just trying to figure out how someone can not say he's not a superstar.

Are you kidding? How is he not like Dirk? Maybe you should tell us how he IS like Dirk... Because seriously, I don't get it. Other than the fact that they're both good shooters, I fail to see any similarity in their games.

I'll tell you how he's not like Dirk... Dirk is better. There ya go. That's it. Dirk is a future hall of famer. Don't get me wrong, I love JJ, but he is not the 1st team all-NBA, MVP, future hall of famer that Dirk is. Dirk is the best player in the NBA at his position. JJ isn't.

ShaggyDirk · 07-13-2009, 02:24 PM

ok, you're right dtown.

grndmstr_c · 07-13-2009, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

What do you mean no one is Dirk?

I mean, of course, that his skill set is not duplicated by any player in the NBA. Including Joe Johnson.

eyedentifyme · 07-13-2009, 02:25 PM

I don't trust Michael Redd entirely. What if he falls on the ground hard and misses the whole season, that would defeat the whole purpose of trying to acquire him in the first place. The reason to try and acquire him before was in the case we could have received Charlie Villanueva in the trade as well, but receiving Redd by himself, no. Josh Howard while he was injured at least plays a good amount of games for us.

Dtownsfinest · 07-13-2009, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Are you kidding? How is he not like Dirk? Maybe you should tell us how he IS like Dirk... Because seriously, I don't get it. Other than the fact that they're both good shooters, I fail to see any similarity in their games.

I'll tell you how he's not like Dirk... Dirk is better. There ya go. That's it. Dirk is a future hall of famer. Don't get me wrong, I love JJ, but he is not the 1st team all-NBA, MVP, future hall of famer that Dirk is. Dirk is the best player in the NBA at his position. JJ isn't.

Offensively they have very similiar games. They don't attack the basket as much. Joe Johnson dominates the ball alot more than Dirk does but they do their scoring from about the same spots on the court. Both love the mid range game. But I guess you missed above where I said Dirk was the better player and has had a better career than Joe Johnson. I forget on this site you can't mention Dirk's name without Mavs fans becoming defensive. That was my mistake. But i'll ask my question again. How is Joe Johnson not a superstar?

Dtownsfinest · 07-13-2009, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyedentifyme

I don't trust Michael Redd entirely. What if he falls on the ground hard and misses the whole season, that would defeat the whole purpose of trying to acquire him in the first place. The reason to try and acquire him before was in the case we could have received Charlie Villanueva in the trade as well, but receiving Redd by himself, no. Josh Howard while he was injured at least plays a good amount of games for us.

What if Dirk falls hard on the ground and misses the whole season? Its a risk you take. Injuries happen. Ask the Celtics. The KG injury may have cost them another ring. But if you go into your offseason worried about someone getting hurt than you'll fail.

Thespiralgoeson · 07-13-2009, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

How is Joe Johnson not a superstar?

How do you define "superstar?" To my understanding "superstar" means MVP level, top 5-10 in the NBA. Joe Johnson is a fine player, but he doesn't qualify.

jimi_thing · 07-13-2009, 02:34 PM

if you ask anyone in atlanta he would say yes, JJ is a superstar. but comparing him with Dirk...? come on! I'm not saying JJ is a bad pleyer. He's great, but Dirk is much better!

Dtownsfinest · 07-13-2009, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

How do you define "superstar?" To my understanding "superstar" means MVP level, top 5-10 in the NBA. Joe Johnson is a fine player, but he doesn't qualify.

I'd probably agree. If you're the best player on your team and get your team to the post season don't you think that should qualify you as a superstar? But then that would subtract a guy like Wade I suppose.

What does your top 10 in the league look like? Off the top I can go with Dirk, Paul, Duncan, Kobe, Wade, Melo, Bron, maybe Bosh? maybe Deron? maybe Parker? But aren't Bosh and Joe Johnson about the same caliber of player? I might be forgetting some guys but off top where would you rank Joe Johnson with other players in the league?