Beijing 2008: The Games of the XXIX Olympiad

[Flacolaco]

Apparently sources are coming out of the wood work with evidence that a certain Chi-com gymnast is only 14, and the IOC won't even do a proper investigation.

It might be a dumb rule, but rules are rules. In 2004, Nastia Liuken didn't compete for the USA because she wasn't old enough. We followed the frakking rules.

[fluid.forty.one]

I agree.. it shouldn't be a rule, but since it is there should be an investigation and consequences.

[Kirobaito]

Liukin woulda beaten Carly Patterson four years ago.

[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by ty

I didn't see Phelps celebrating before his victory.

Bolt > Phelps. =D

Au contrare! For Phelps's 7th Gold this year, he celebrated with a frowned-upon half-stroke right before touching the wall. If there was a water-proof microphone, I'm sure you would have heard a muffled "Wooo!"

[nikeball]

This is what Phelps did after his victory...after the 100m FLY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhjwnsVUeto

pretty funny imo

phelps > bolt

[EricaLubarsky]

We really are dominating considering that China has roughly 5 times the population and spent seven times as much money on the athletes.

[alby]

enjoy it now, I guess

[rabbitproof]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

We really are dominating considering that China has roughly 5 times the population and spent seven times as much money on the athletes.

Get to sexin', America!

[GermanDunk]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

We really are dominating considering that China has roughly 5 times the population and spent seven times as much money on the athletes.

It must have something to do with socialist states´ attitude to sports as an instrument to show who´s the superior nation.

1988

1 UdSSR 55 31 46 132
2 DDR 37 35 30 102
3 Vereinigte Staaten 36 31 27 94
4 Südkorea 12 10 11 33
5 BR Deutschland 11 14 15 40
.
.
.
11 China 5 11 12 28


Games 1992 @ Barca

1 Formerly known as CCCP 45 38 29 112
2 Vereinigte Staaten 37 34 37 108
3 Deutschland 33 21 28 82
4 China 16 22 16 54

So germany benefited from half-criminal training methods used in the GDR


2000

1 Vereinigte Staaten 36 24 31 91
2 Russland 32 28 28 88
3 China 28 16 15 59
4 Australien 16 25 17 58
5 Deutschland 13 17 26 56


2008

China 47 17 25 and counting

USA 31 36 35

Großbritannien 18 13 11

Russland 17 18 22

Look what money can buy.
What we lern from China, Socialism works perfectly when enough money is available...

Meanwhile... Russia appreciates to compete with NY in terms of number of billionaires.

[alby]

just in 10 years. I hope these Games are opening up the eyes of Americans

[rabbitproof]

Originally Posted by alby

just in 10 years. I hope these Games are opening up the eyes of Americans

Um, you mean 20.

Go USA arithmetic!

[Big Boy Laroux]

it seems that the easiest way to get around the whole "what's more important, total medals or gold medals?" is this:

rather than just treat all medals the same in the total medal count, rank a gold as 3 points, silver as 2, bronze as 1. So China would be beating us still, but that's a better way to look at it, IMO.

And yes, the 14-year old rule is silly, but it's still a freaking rule! and it has been broken! It's like the whole "nba players setting foot on the court during a fight" thing. Dumb rule, but it's been upheld.

[Kirobaito]

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

it seems that the easiest way to get around the whole "what's more important, total medals or gold medals?" is this:

rather than just treat all medals the same in the total medal count, rank a gold as 3 points, silver as 2, bronze as 1. So China would be beating us still, but that's a better way to look at it, IMO.

And yes, the 14-year old rule is silly, but it's still a freaking rule! and it has been broken! It's like the whole "nba players setting foot on the court during a fight" thing. Dumb rule, but it's been upheld.

Actually we'd be tied, 210 to 210, the way things are right now.

[Big Boy Laroux]

Cool! Even better then!

It factors in that gold medals are more important, yet also applies weight to the silver and bronze. I'm calling the IOC right now!

But I can't be the first to think of this. It's so basic.

[chumdawg]

It's a good idea, but I wonder about the weighting. The difference between bronze and silver is probably not the same as the difference between silver and gold. I'd reckon that the golds ought to weighted at 5 points at least.

[Fidel]

The weighting should be:
10 points gold
1 point silver
0.5 points bronze.

No one will remember all the freaking bronze medal winners in Phelps gold races for example. It´s funny that you americans who are known for their winners mentality (that I like) and for "2nd is the first loser" now are trying to find ways to make 2nd or 3rd count more cause you are losing the race.

Get over it, China beat you and everyone else. But why would anyone care? They did it by doping and torturing little children (about that I do care, not about the laughable golds).

[Caseman]

Originally Posted by Fidel

The weighting should be:
10 points gold
1 point silver
0.5 points bronze.

Man no one will remember all the freaking bronze medal winners in Phelps gold races for example. It´s funny that you americans who are known for their winners mentality (that I like) and for "2nd is the first loser" now are trying to find ways to make 2nd or 3rd count more cause you are losing the race.

Get over it, China beat you and everyone else. But why would anyone care? They did it by doping and torturing little children (about that I do care, not about the laughable golds).

[Big Boy Laroux]

Seriously, Fidel, get a grip. I'm actually saying that I DON'T like the total medal count the way it is currently counted, because it treats all medals equally. The fact that china has won more golds should weigh heavily.

However, saying a bronze medal is worthless is ludicrous. That is 3rd best IN THE WORLD. Just to even be in the finals of an event is an accomlishment - there are so many heats and pre-lims.

And chum, i'd agree with you about weighting. Maybe 5-3-1? 10-5-1?

[Flacolaco]

Tell that guy from Afghanistan that his bronze medal means dick.

Go ahead, call him up.

[Fidel]

Just saw a great tabletennis semifinal between Ma Lin and Wang Liqin. Ma won the first three sets. Then Wang came back to make it 3-2. But Ma took the 6th set to meet Wang Hao in the final.

[Fidel]

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

Seriously, Fidel, get a grip. I'm actually saying that I DON'T like the total medal count the way it is currently counted, because it treats all medals equally. The fact that china has won more golds should weigh heavily.

However, saying a bronze medal is worthless is ludicrous. That is 3rd best IN THE WORLD. Just to even be in the finals of an event is an accomlishment - there are so many heats and pre-lims.

And chum, i'd agree with you about weighting. Maybe 5-3-1? 10-5-1?

Oh my. I was exaggerating when I said 10-1-0.5. I thought that was obvious. I´m just making fun of you all a little bit, because like I said americans usually have that winners mentality but now third place is great??

I really don´t care that much. If you wanna weight it somehow I think 7-3-1 would be about right.

But, at least here in Germany the Olympics is about Olympic champions which means Gold. It´s a platform for mostly less popular sports and the only way to really be in the spotlight for those guys is to win the Gold. It´ll last till someone else wins the next Gold. And of course if someone wins Gold in an actually popular Sport (like Britta Steffen in swimming) the attention will last much longer and it also means serious money of course.

[Fidel]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

Tell that guy from Afghanistan that his bronze medal means dick.

Go ahead, call him up.

LOL I have the 2nd Kup in TaekWonDo myself and did fight full contact for a pretty long time. Sure he would beat me, but he wouldn´t beat me up. Actually since I´ve also been doing grappling and wing tsun for some time I could probably beat him in a street fight. He´s a very skinny dude.

[GermanDunk]

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

Seriously, Fidel, get a grip. I'm actually saying that I DON'T like the total medal count the way it is currently counted, because it treats all medals equally. The fact that china has won more golds should weigh heavily.

However, saying a bronze medal is worthless is ludicrous. That is 3rd best IN THE WORLD. Just to even be in the finals of an event is an accomlishment - there are so many heats and pre-lims.

And chum, i'd agree with you about weighting. Maybe 5-3-1? 10-5-1?

Bronze is bronze and gold is gold... The medalcount is invented by media freaks.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

And chum, i'd agree with you about weighting. Maybe 5-3-1? 10-5-1?

You'd have to poll the athletes to see how they feel about it, but my guess is that the weighting is probably something like 50-15-10-3-1. Golds mean a LOT. Now, when it's said and done silvers and bronzes mean a lot too, so you have to give them some weight. But everybody knows that the gold is where it's at, on the medal stand.

Maybe it's more like it to say 100-30-20-5-1. Or maybe 500-100-60-10-2. Probably the latter. It's just so very difficult to place a price on a Olympic gold.

[GermanDunk]

The soccerfield is awesome.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by Fidel

OI´m just making fun of you all a little bit, because like I said americans usually have that winners mentality but now third place is great??

I had to laugh when the US sprinter (if you want to say american, then you have to give us the golds of Canada, Mexico, and Chile, too! ha!) who, after getting blasted by Bolt and barely squeeking out a silver, lifted up his index finger and said, "number one," into the camera. we're just such winners that 2nd place is winning when we get it.

But, at least here in Germany the Olympics is about Olympic champions which means Gold. It´s a platform for mostly less popular sports and the only way to really be in the spotlight for those guys is to win the Gold.

Life must suck for ya'll. I mean, if that's true, how would the Germans know that the 'spotlight' is any different than sitting at home drinking a beer to celebrate your 'participant' ribbon? (oh, snap)

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

Life must suck for ya'll. I mean, if that's true, how would the Germans know that the 'spotlight' is any different than sitting at home drinking a beer to celebrate your 'participant' ribbon? (oh, snap)

I'm wondering what the term "Ugly American" means to you. What is Germany, about the size of Texas and maybe Oklahoma and Louisiana?

You make me embarrassed to call myself American. Oh, snap!, you say. Life must suck for the Germans, you say. Get a job, idiot.

[Flacolaco]

Jealousy is an ugly color, rest of the world.

I love you Dirk, but the onslaught of Euros you have brought to this forum to tell us how dumb we are in the olympics, basketball, politics, etc, etc.... every day, is really annoying.

I speak spanish...I think I'll go to some Mexican message boards to tell them how much they suck...

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

I speak spanish...I think I'll go to some Mexican message boards to tell them how much they suck...

Oh, you big man, you.

Learn Chinese and tell them how much they suck.

Please report back here with the results.

[Flacolaco]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Oh, you big man, you.

Learn Chinese and tell them how much they suck.

Please report back here with the results.

They said their word for '14' and '16' is the same

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Maybe it's more like it to say 100-30-20-5-1. Or maybe 500-100-60-10-2. Probably the latter. It's just so very difficult to place a price on a Olympic gold.

I'd probably go with the first option, but knock the silver and bronze down slightly. 100-25-15-5-1 sounds good to me.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

They said their word for '14' and '16' is the same

And who is now sporting the jealous colours?

[rmacomic]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

They said their word for '14' and '16' is the same

is that why 12 means 18 in Alabama?

[Flacolaco]

Originally Posted by rmacomic

is that why 12 means 18 in Alabama?

And West Virginia, South Carolina, Mississippi, parts of Texas, and Louisiana.

[nikeball]

Who cares if it is 5x the population? So many people live in the rural parts of China and do not know that the Olympics are going on in Beijing.

Does it really matter if the China used underage gymnasts? The underage gymnasts didn't cause Alicia Sacramone to fall twice in her routines. It didn't cause Shawn John or Nas to step out of bounds. Plenty of other gymnasts...big, tall, small, short, fat, & skinny have all stepped in and out of bounds before. China stepped up and USA did not. Being small also has disadvantages in some parts of gymnastic routines. The strength parts where you have to hold yourself up or pull yourself up requires some muscles that I don't believe the 4'6 girls have.

Also, do yall really think that our USA girls were better now or when they were 14? I'm sure a few extra years helped them hone their skillset. There is no question they are better now than when they were 14.

edit: Chinese/Asian people also usually look way younger than they are...especially in certain provinces. They are smaller and more fragile than the European / Western counterparts. There are Chinese-Americans I thought were 18 or 20 but found out later were 30 with 2 kids. They just have smaller builds and babyfaces.

I think the age rule was implemented so that young people did not have to deal with the rigors of training and to shelter them from the immense pressure of performing for your country on a huge stage.

That rule in place is more of an ethical rule than an unfair competitive advantage rule.

And for the record..there are some Chinese, Asian, and people from other countries on this board..I don't think we should let the country bashing get out of hand.

[Flacolaco]

To be fair, there are those that feel that Nastia Liuken would have been even better at 14 in 2004, when she did NOT compete due to that nasty habit of following the rules, than she was this year.

Apparently gymnasts are at their best when unspoiled by memories of failures, they're more flexible and lighter... who cares.

The point here isn't the rule. I agree the rule is stupid. Why not have the best no matter what age competing? I totally agree.

But it doesn't matter. Rules are rules. They have to be followed, like the Americans followed them last time. That a government would go through that much trouble to cheat is sad and wrong.

[BGMaverick9]

The announcers were saying that if you're younger you're not stressing/anxious as older gymnasts simply b/c you just don't know what you're getting in to. The bigness of the Olympics doesn't hit home as hard if you're so young vs someone who is older, that's what they were saying.

I agree with Flacolaco. The rule is stupid, but it is a rule. If it's laid out and is not allowed in the sport, you just can't do it. If you didn't follow the rule, you cheated.

[Dr.Zoidberg]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

Jealousy is an ugly color, rest of the world.

I love you Dirk, but the onslaught of Euros you have brought to this forum to tell us how dumb we are in the olympics, basketball, politics, etc, etc.... every day, is really annoying.

I speak spanish...I think I'll go to some Mexican message boards to tell them how much they suck...

Come down Flaco...

I don´t see very much Euro poster which call the Americans dumb.

Of course here are discussions going on, it´s a board with threads. And it has nothing to do with onslaught, it´s discussion where onslaught is called criticism. So don´t feel affronted of criticism. Not everyone can have the same opinion...

Also, only because a board member comes from Europe (or another country out of the USA) and has another opinion like the American members here (or criticism), doesn´t mean that he/she calls Americans as dumb.

And why jealousy? The same could be said of Americans and the ongoing debasing of China at first place in medal count...

For example:

Country A: 12 gold 10 silver 38 bronze
Country B: 47gold 2 silver 1 bronze

With the American favorite evaluation by total number of all medals, country A would have won with 60 medals and country B second with 50 medals.

Doesn´t sound very logic for me, because I would say country B was way better than country A...

[Big Boy Laroux]

Yeah, zoidberg, I agree with that. Team B had the better Olympics.

We need an official weighting system. Then the US media can't tout the total medal count when we're down so much in gold medals. To be fair to NBC, though, Costas always acknowledges that china has a big lead in golds.

[Murphy3]

I think everyone agrees that the gold medals carry more weight than the silver and bronze. Yes, the US lists total medal count in their papers and on TV..but that's how've we've done it for years. I don't think it means that we value the silver and bronze as much as the gold. It's just the way the medal counts are listed. I don't know why or when this practice started, but it did and it caught on.

Frankly, who cares? I could really care less if China has better divers and ping pong players or whatever the hell kind of dancing that is that's done in the Olympics. Because frankly, those events are insignificant to me.. And I could care less if the Americans win in rowing or whatever the hell that is... because frankly, I know that it's such an insignifcant event that the best athletes in the world aren't a part of the competition.. they could care less about such a thing.

And honestly, I don't really give a damn about any sport that is 'judged'. I just never have. I suppose I have a tiny interest in gymnastics, but I wouldn't care less if I never saw another gymnastics competition in my life...

I suppose with the exception of gymnastics, I'm pretty much like most Americans. So much of what is called an olympic 'sport' is idiotic. Has anyone watched a game of Handball? I felt ashamed for mankind after watching a bit of that. How stupid?

Anyways...bottom line. I don't care about the medal count because so many of the events are as queer as a two dollar bill. The Chinese can have their ping pong golds and shove them up their ass. Us Americans can do the same with our rowing gold. Who cares?

We all know that there's just a handfull of sports that truly matter and some of those aren't even in the Olympics. Baseball/softball, Basketball, Golf, Tennis, Football, Soccer and maybe a couple more... And then there's a handful of events that matter such as the 100, 200, 400, mile and a few others... Anything else is just there as something mind numbing to watch until the new TV season starts and until Football truly kicks off... if only the Rangers were still in contention.

And yeah..screw the little man that cares about insignificant sports.