Nerlens Noel - Page 14 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

tap2390 · 08-21-2017, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmacomic

Why?

Rich Paul is known to 'play chicken' so to speak when it comes to the $$ and has a history of players holding out. I'd also add that the timing of this does not bode well.

EricaLubarsky · 08-21-2017, 11:20 PM

http://kotaku.com/nba-2ks-basketball...ing-1798293945

sefant77 · 08-22-2017, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

Rich Paul is known to 'play chicken' so to speak when it comes to the $$ and has a history of players holding out. I'd also add that the timing of this does not bode well.

And still Paul cant change the facts that Noel has a significant injury history and that the 18 FA class is loaded with less money available.

SMC0007 · 08-22-2017, 09:18 AM

Hi, I'm your new agent... are you ready to drag this thing out as long as possible?

DevinHarriswillstart · 08-22-2017, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Hi, I'm your new agent... are you ready to drag this thing out as long as possible?

More like...

Hi, I'm your new agent. Let's totally go for a max deal next summer. Just be sure not to blow those knees again this season!

EricaLubarsky · 08-22-2017, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

More like...

Hi, I'm your new agent. Let's totally go for a max deal next summer. Just be sure not to blow those knees again this season!

Noel's Agent:

"Thats a great idea to bet tens of millions of dollars on an amazing and healthy season."

sefant77 · 08-22-2017, 10:05 AM

Im not sure if Paul is willing to gamble his save commission on a 60-70m contract if there is such a good chance he may just get the same offer next summer. Or maybe none with blown knees.

And since Noel has to make up for taking the QO he would need like at least a 80-90m contract next summer....good luck with that

Underdog · 08-22-2017, 12:04 PM

We thought Noel taking the QO was the worst-case scenario, but that's because we've all overlooked the possibility of a full-on holdout... This could get nasty:

Why Nerlens Noel hiring Rich Paul as his new agent is bad news for the Mavericks

walter · 08-22-2017, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

We thought Noel taking the QO was the worst-case scenario, but that's because we've all overlooked the possibility of a full-on holdout... This could get nasty:

Why Nerlens Noel hiring Rich Paul as his new agent is bad news for the Mavericks

At this point I'm ready to move on from Noel if needed. We have no expectations of winning a lot of games any time soon, we don't need to overpay for anyone right now. Draft a big in the lottery next year or sign on in free agency. Cut your losses on Noel and try to get some assets for him. Move on.

sefant77 · 08-22-2017, 12:31 PM

With TT the Cavs had to bend because Lebron got pissed and demanded to get it done. Same with JR. Paul looked strong because he could play the Lebron card wit the Cavs.

KCP signed a 1y/18m, thats around 14m more "insurance money" than Noels QO. And KCP is an ironman and missed in six years college and NBA a total of 14 games. Cant compare it to Noel.

If Noel allows Paul to drag this way into training camp because he still thinks 60m arent enough...then he can seriously just fuck off and sign with the Kings or Nets next summer. He left the Sixers, got so incredible lucky to find a perfect fit for him just to screw it over 10-15m at the beginning of his career.

At start of camp Donnie should simply ask Noel "do you wanna be here or not? Do you think there is a better place in the league where you could raise your value for your next contract in 3-4 years?"

sefant77 · 08-22-2017, 01:13 PM

Another point: 2018 projected cap is103m

103 minus Barnes/Wes/Powell/Smith/Barea/capholds: ~40m

Pretty save to say that they are offering Noel exactly the amount that leaves the Mavs with the option to offer someone a regular max deal in 2018 without the need to dump Powell before. Or offering a super max with dumping Powell.They want to enter the 2018 FA with a max cap slot and Barnes/Smith/Noel/Dirk/Wes/Barea on the roster. Three young guys and three vets to lure a FA

And i just dont see them giving up this option just to overpay Noel now when there isnt someone else offering anything. 15m for Noel it is and will be. Or the QO.

EricaLubarsky · 08-22-2017, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Another point: 2018 projected cap is103m

103 minus Barnes/Wes/Powell/Smith/Barea/capholds: ~40m

Pretty save to say that they are offering Noel exactly the amount that leaves the Mavs with the option to offer someone a regular max deal in 2018 without the need to dump Powell before. Or offering a super max with dumping Powell.They want to enter the 2018 FA with a max cap slot and Barnes/Smith/Noel/Dirk/Wes/Barea on the roster. Three young guys and three vets to lure a FA

And i just don't see them giving up this option just to overpay Noel now when there isnt someone else offering anything. 15m for Noel it is and will be. Or the QO.

We'll have about 42 million to spend after we waive our rights to McRoberts, but we'll have a lot of roster to fill with that so it'll be extremely hard to offer a 25.5/30.6/35.7 contract to someone.

Probably depth chart for next year if we don't re-sign Noel:

???/Dirk (at 40)/Powell
Barnes/ ???/ ???
Matthews/ DFS/ ???
??? / ???/ ???
Smith/ Barea (at 34)/ ???

Guys not on the roster that you may want to re-sign:
Noel
Curry
Yogi
Harris
Mejri

Lots of holes to fill there. You can grab some decent second/third stringers undrafted like DFS. Maybe we miss the playoffs again and get a decent kid in the draft. Still, it's hard to fill two starter spots. 3/D SGs aren't super rare these days, but that starting center spot is going to be tough.

Personally think we're going to show a lot of promise this season after the ASB. Maybe win 39-44 games overall with a hot end to the season. We may make the 8th seed or just barely miss the playoffs. In that case, you absolutely want to re-sign Curry who will most likely get 12-18 a year. If we want both Noel and Curry, every million counts.

Then again, if this team shows no promise, you don't lock up the pillars of a bad team. We let Curry get paid and we look elsewhere. However, my money is on this team ending the season strong in the top 7 in offense and top 15 in defense

sefant77 · 08-22-2017, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

We'll have about 42 million to spend after we waive our rights to McRoberts, but we'll have a lot of roster to fill with that so it'll be extremely hard to offer a 25.5/30.6/35.7 contract to someone.

[

Its actually not even that much rosterspots. Lets say the Mavs plan works and they are able to win the hardball and Noel signs for around 15m. Lets say Dirk is willing to sign for the vet min if we hit a FA home run.

That leaves us with this roster and a ~25m (or almost) max cap slot:
Smith
Wes
Barnes
Dirk
Noel
Barea
DFS
Powell
our 2018 pick between #10 and #20 (my guess)

Even if we blow our entire cap with one big FA we are allready solid ten guys deep. And for me thats pretty much the plan. Re-sign Noel to a price that allows us a big fish in 2018. Or if that doesnt work within the first days, sign two solid player with Seth and xy.

yahyes · 08-22-2017, 08:38 PM

They gotta sign him already.

DevinHarriswillstart · 08-23-2017, 03:19 PM

Noel turns down 17.5 mil a year per FanSided. Not real sure about the source, but it blew up on twitter.

yahyes · 08-23-2017, 03:26 PM

Do injury clauses still exist in contracts?

spreedom · 08-23-2017, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yahyes

Do injury clauses still exist in contracts?

In some ways... there can be clauses written in that dictate how much salary is guaranteed based on availability, MPG, total minutes played, etc... and you can do things like making final seasons partially or fully non-guaranteed. Uncommon for a player as young as Nerlens (injury history aside) but possible.

EricaLubarsky · 08-23-2017, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yahyes

Do injury clauses still exist in contracts?

There are two ways to do it.

1) All contracts can be negated for severe/career-ending injuries. Players then get a smaller amount of guaranteed money and the contract comes off . Every contract has it, because it's built into the CBA.

2) You can have bonuses built into the contract for various things like making an allstar game, playing X number of games per season, or averaging a certain number of points. The bonuses can't make the contract exceed the contract we're allowed to give (like giving a guy a max contract and adding a bonus of 10 million if he makes an allstar game all four years, but if a guy can earn 2-18 million (like Noel), we could offer him 12 million with a bonus of 3 million if he plays at least 75 games, because both 12 and 15 million would both be legal contracts.

There isn't anything to penalize players for lack of health, but the bonus for playing games/minutes might work that way in a way.

sefant77 · 08-23-2017, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Noel turns down 17.5 mil a year per FanSided. Not real sure about the source, but it blew up on twitter.

If that is true: Good luck 2018, Noel. Have fun with the QO, which means you are going to lose around 12m allready right here and now.

17.5m is with this injury record, limited minutes AND NO OTHER TEAM OFFERING SHIT a generous offer.

Melonhead · 08-23-2017, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Noel turns down 17.5 mil a year per FanSided. Not real sure about the source, but it blew up on twitter.

If this is true then wtf man.

Underdog · 08-23-2017, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

If this is true then wtf man.

Pretty obvious that he's in the max-or-bust mindset, regardless of what the market says... You can blame the perpetually-injured Chandler Parsons max contract for that.

DevinHarriswillstart · 08-23-2017, 06:17 PM

I was all about giving Noel whatever he wanted.....before the miracle of DSJ fell to us. Now, I just don't care as much. They'd be great together, but this is DSJ's team..or at least will be very shortly. Any player that doesn't want to play with him can be shown the door.

yahyes · 08-23-2017, 06:23 PM

Dirk retires in a couple of year.s Lots of cap is freed. His best option is to take a good 3 year with player option on the 2nd year. Dennis is on his rookie contract also which is the best thing going cap wise.

NeedlesKane · 08-23-2017, 06:43 PM

yahyes, Dirk is only taking $5 million per year. That's not a lot of cap space being freed up right there.

Also the Mavericks made a very generous offer for Noel. Was it declined before or after the signing of Noel's new agent I wonder. I know Noel wants a max offer so I wonder.

EricaLubarsky · 08-23-2017, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yahyes

Dirk retires in a couple of year.s Lots of cap is freed. His best option is to take a good 3 year with player option on the 2nd year. Dennis is on his rookie contract also which is the best thing going cap wise.

What? Dirk is playing on a 5 mill contract.

The MLE is 8.4

yahyes · 08-23-2017, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

What? Dirk is playing on a mill contract.

The MLE is 8.4

I thought cap opens more since he's like the franchise player. When he goes into retirement.

Underdog · 08-23-2017, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yahyes

I thought cap opens more since he's like the franchise player. When he goes into retirement.

Nope.

Underdog · 08-23-2017, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

If that is true: Good luck 2018, Noel. Have fun with the QO, which means you are going to lose around 12m allready right here and now.

17.5m is with this injury record, limited minutes AND NO OTHER TEAM OFFERING SHIT a generous offer.

Yeah, "lotto-bound team NEEDS to overpay unproven injury-prone big man" isn't exactly what you'd call leverage.

tap2390 · 08-23-2017, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yahyes

I thought cap opens more since he's like the franchise player. When he goes into retirement.

C'mon man. The Book of Dirk is the first chapter in the Mavs Bible. You've got to know how much he's sacrificed for the team, city, and fans.

EricaLubarsky · 08-23-2017, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

C'mon man. The Book of Dirk is the first chapter in the Mavs Bible. You've got to know how much he's sacrificed for the team, city, and fans.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to tap2390 again.

mac222b · 08-24-2017, 08:42 AM

Noel has exactly zero leverage. We gave up practically nothing for him--and he's a sunk cost. Dude has never had a single healthy season since Junior year of high school! Anything 15m or above he should jump on. Fortunes change fast in the NBA. He could be out of the league in a few years with another bad injury.

DevinHarriswillstart · 08-24-2017, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

Noel has exactly zero leverage. We gave up practically nothing for him--and he's a sunk cost. Dude has never had a single healthy season since Junior year of high school! Anything 15m or above he should jump on. Fortunes change fast in the NBA. He could be out of the league in a few years with another bad injury.

Yep. The ghost of Parsons lingers with those knees.

I actually think the QO makes sense if Noel really wants a max contract. There is no way he is getting this season, so prove your worth and earn it next summer. It's a risk for the Mavs, but I really don't think any team is going to max him out either way.

SMC0007 · 08-24-2017, 09:11 AM

Mav fans, sometimes what you don't get is actually what you needed. I botched that phrase myself. Your welcome..and Sorry.

saclare · 08-24-2017, 10:09 AM

For all we know Noel is seeing the $17.5mm per year rumor and he's probably asking himself where that offer has been this whole time. Here we are assuming this rumor is true when we have no definite offer that was made, just rumors guys. Let's take a breath and see how this plays out. Nothing has to be done by either side until that October deadline gets closer.

EricaLubarsky · 08-24-2017, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saclare

For all we know Noel is seeing the $17.5mm per year rumor and he's probably asking himself where that offer has been this whole time. Here we are assuming this rumor is true when we have no definite offer that was made, just rumors guys. Let's take a breath and see how this plays out. Nothing has to be done by either side until that October deadline gets closer.

This. Nothing is official until it's official. Lots of rumors turn out not to be true.

I still think we see him sign a contract in the 14-16 range by Sept 20

sefant77 · 08-24-2017, 10:35 AM

Noel should google "Donatas Motiejunas"

DevinHarriswillstart · 08-24-2017, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saclare

For all we know Noel is seeing the $17.5mm per year rumor and he's probably asking himself where that offer has been this whole time. Here we are assuming this rumor is true when we have no definite offer that was made, just rumors guys. Let's take a breath and see how this plays out. Nothing has to be done by either side until that October deadline gets closer.

Well of course, but there really isn't anything else to talk about at the moment. This type of stuff at least gets August over with a little bit quicker.

SMC0007 · 08-24-2017, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Noel should google "Donatas Motiejunas"

That is greek for Mountain of donuts. fact. google it.

Melonhead · 08-24-2017, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Well of course, but there really isn't anything else to talk about at the moment. This type of stuff at least gets August over with a little bit quicker.

longest month ever

EricaLubarsky · 08-24-2017, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

longest month ever

Yuuup

June we had he draft

July we had free agency (although ours was particularly quiet.

September will be long, but at least near the end we'll start getting some training camp news and I'd wager $500, we get our news on Noel by Sept 20.

October we get some pre-season games.

November we get the regular season.

August is literally the longest, worst month for NBA/Mavs fans.