Caron Butler´s injury Thread - Page 14 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

markus1234 · 05-07-2011, 03:39 PM

Corey Brewer and Peja are OK. We do not need Butler. And let's not forget that Deshawn Stevenson played good D on Lebron...

dalger · 05-07-2011, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Donnie says it would be "next to impossible" for Caron to return anytime in the playoffs.

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/mavericks/

Hmm, that's not too great to hear, although we've been able to fill his role pretty well with Peja and Brewer.

beatLA · 05-08-2011, 04:12 AM

Gotta say I like watch him play,it's such a pity,not mention we could miss the championship.

blakepilot · 05-08-2011, 11:30 PM

Alright...I'm primarily a lurker (obviously), and I'm not going to drink from the 'we need Caron' Kool-Aid, but beside what Donny says, still not looking like maybe working him in at all? I'd like to see him get in some great team practice this unusually long off-time and at least dress for WCF. I know we can win without win, but I'm a gambling man and would love to see him at least go in and check the temperature. Possibly redundant post, but things changed a bit today.

tsar · 05-09-2011, 09:03 AM

Even at 50% he can't be any worse than Stevenson yesterday. Although I'm not really in favor of bringing him back until next season. Man... the future actually looks bright: Caron coming back, Roddy will hopefully develop some more, and we have Brewer/Ian. Noice!

Kirobaito · 05-09-2011, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsar

Even at 50% he can't be any worse than Stevenson yesterday. Although I'm not really in favor of bringing him back until next season. Man... the future actually looks bright: Caron coming back, Roddy will hopefully develop some more, and we have Brewer/Ian. Noice!

Butler is a free agent. He says he wants to and expects to come back, but I'd be interested to know for how much.

OSUmavsfan · 05-09-2011, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirobaito

Butler is a free agent. He says he wants to and expects to come back, but I'd be interested to know for how much.

I would think it's going to be for far less than he would have gotten had he not gotten injured. Not many teams are going to pursue a guy coming off an injury like that. Look at Josh Howard last season. He got no free agent attention after having season-ending knee surgery and ended up signing for something like $3 million to stay with the Wizards.

Flacolaco · 05-09-2011, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Donnie says it would be "next to impossible" for Caron to return anytime in the playoffs.

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/mavericks/

How did he go from vigorous on court workouts before games to "impossible"? Setback?

LonghornDub · 05-09-2011, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

How did he go from vigorous on court workouts before games to "impossible"? Setback?

Maybe not a setback so much as he's just not progressing quickly enough in his on-court stuff that they're going to be able to upgrade him to contact drills/scrimmages in time? Not sure.

SMC0007 · 05-09-2011, 11:01 AM

Imagine how much better we might be with our 2nd(ish) best player. I haven't heard any anal-ists mention that either. It's coming sooner or later but it should have been brought up more by now.

sefant77 · 05-09-2011, 11:03 AM

Maybe they just wanna take some pressure off. Or false hope.

I expect Butler to re-sign, i doubt he get somewhere else more money. He is 31, give him three years 15million , ending together with Dirk and Marion. But since its Cuban it will be probably more 3/18 or 3/21.

dalger · 05-09-2011, 04:12 PM

I guess that the money we'll have to put on the table for Caron depends on the new CBA framework as well as potential offers from other teams. Under the current CBA, I wouldn't be shocked to see a team offer Butler the full MLE. In most GM's eyes, Caron is probably regarded as a better player than Josh. In addition, he's known as a great guy and teammate, while Josh's reputation was just as damaged as his knee.

One way or the other, I definitely hope that we'll see Caron in a Mavs jersey next season, preferably on a 3-year contract.

deamon · 05-09-2011, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

our 2nd(ish) best player

Chandler and Kidd are better.

mavsfan1000 · 05-09-2011, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deamon

Chandler and Kidd are better.

Agreed. Not to mention Stojakovic and Marion. But yeah Chandler is the big difference this year for us.

dude1394 · 05-09-2011, 05:07 PM

Chandler and the way that the team has bought into the defensive mindset (BROUGHT BY CHANDLER) si the difference imo.

Peja/DSteve/jjb/jet/big wood...alll playing solid right now. It's really sweet to see such a team going at it..

xrobx · 05-09-2011, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

How did he go from vigorous on court workouts before games to "impossible"? Setback?

ahem...*puts on tinfoil hat* i'm pretty sure that he was never coming back to begin with, but the MBT wanted to save money and not bring in a big contract like crash, so to appease the fans they said it was because butler could come back in the second round. the MBT didn't think we had a realistic shot of getting to the WCF, and now that we did, now the truth has to come out.

fluid.forty.one · 05-09-2011, 06:24 PM

If it aint broke, don't fix it. (Although Marion has been pretty awful... but Marion will be invaluable if we have to face Durant/Lebron)

Kidd Karma · 05-09-2011, 06:59 PM

Watching Miami and well Haslem is not doing too well. Hard to integrate new rotation guy mid season....worst in postseason.

Mav Addict · 05-09-2011, 09:26 PM

Unfortunately tuff juice can't help us this year....unless it's off the bench til next year

sefant77 · 05-09-2011, 09:40 PM

Haslem played at the start of the season 13 games in the total mess of this new SBF team.

Butler played two month and over the whole december the team clicked.

Its two different situations.

mavs777 · 05-10-2011, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

If it aint broke, don't fix it. (Although Marion has been pretty awful... but Marion will be invaluable if we have to face Durant/Lebron)

if you ignore his defense, sure

LonghornDub · 05-10-2011, 01:06 AM

If he's ready, I think he could come in useful defensively if they were to end up making the Finals and playing Miami. Marion can't guard both dudes.

Not that Butler is gonna lock anyone down, but his size and versatility could prove useful.

Probably a pipe dream, though, according to Donnie.

sefant77 · 05-10-2011, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

If he's ready, I think he could come in useful defensively if they were to end up making the Finals and playing Miami. Marion can't guard both dudes.

Not that Butler is gonna lock anyone down, but his size and versatility could prove useful.

This. Miami is the matchup where we really would miss him.

Wade we have at least more options. Stevenson, Brewer, even Kidd on single plays where Wade doesnt handle the ball out on the perimeter.

For James you just got Marion. Peja? Massacre. Brewer? Way to thin...

mavs777 · 05-10-2011, 02:25 PM

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/maver...medium=twitter

Quote:

DALLAS -- Did Dallas Mavericks coach Rick Carlisle just re-open the discussion of Caron Butler's potential availability for the Western Conference final three days after team president Donnie Nelson called a return "next to impossible"?

"He's now at a point where he's dunking the ball and he's making more and more progress," Carlisle said. "When he's back, he's going to be back 100 percent. Timetable-wise, I don't know exactly when that's going to be. I'll tell you what, it's [Butler's aggressive rehab] something that's energized our team, really since he took his knee cap and shoved it four inches back into place on Jan. 1 in Milwaukee."

That's when and where Butler ruptured the patellar tendon in his right knew and underwent surgery a few days later in Dallas. The Mavs quickly ruled him out for the season, but Butler has consistently set a goal of returning during the playoffs. Butler has dropped hints since the first round that he could soon be cleared for physical contact, which would seemingly pave the way for the rugged small forward to put on the uniform.

However, prior to the start of the second-round against the Los Angeles Lakers, Carlisle adamantly ruled Butler out for the duration of the series. On Saturday, the day before the series-clinching Game 4, Nelson said a return by Butler at any point moving forward would be "next to impossible."

Yet, when asked for clarification, specifically if he was prepared to rule Butler out for the Western Conference final, which starts either Sunday or Tuesday against Oklahoma City or Memphis, Carlisle cut off the conversation.

"I'm not going to talk about a a timetable because I'm not a doctor," Carlisle said.

But, Carlisle does consult with doctors that constantly examine and monitor Butler's progress.

"I'm not going to comment on it," Carlisle said.

The Butler topic came up when Carlisle was asked if he could have imagined the team making this of a deep a run if he had been told earlier in the season that he would lose Butler and Rodrigue Beaubois would be a non-factor.

Carlisle then delivered a 2-minute monologue on Butler's inspiration to the team and how Beaubois has contributed despite being displaced to the end of the bench.

"I believe both guys have had an impact," Carlisle said. "Caron, just simply being here every day and doing what he's doing is a an incredible source of inspiration for all of us. I can't even begin to explain to you his positive attitude, the work that he's putting in; he's in here two or three times a day."

The dunking Carlisle brings up isn't something entirely new for Butler in his recovery process. He's been working on the court with assistant coaches for some time now. However, as of recently, he had not started working on lateral movement, an area crucial to playing, but it's uncertain how far he has progressed in such areas.

Butler, of course, will be a free agent during the offseason. So if the next time Butler plays isn't in these playoffs, it just might be for a different team.

Flacolaco · 05-10-2011, 02:34 PM

Here's the thing about Caron: If he does feel like he can play (and the doctors do as well) in a couple of weeks toward the end of this upcoming long series, what does Carlisle do if he has zero intention of changing his rotations? (Who could blame him for that?)

You don't want to have a healthy Caron Butler sitting at the end of the bench with guys looking at you like "Hey uh, coach, what about Caron, maybe? please?" (though the uber stubborn jerk that is Rick Carlisle might do that...) so you probably wouldn't say publicly that he's ready and dress him, even if he is, right?

sefant77 · 05-10-2011, 02:59 PM

Its never wrong to have at least an option more.

Kidd Karma · 05-10-2011, 03:03 PM

It's a 7 game series there's no time to think about adjustments, you take this time to anticipate scenarios, if this then what, if that then what.....that's what RC and his guys must think about NOW.

Kidd Karma · 05-10-2011, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Its never wrong to have at least an option more.

Oh, man it's always nice to have something like that in your back pocket.

Underdog · 05-10-2011, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

Here's the thing about Caron: If he does feel like he can play (and the doctors do as well) in a couple of weeks toward the end of this upcoming long series, what does Carlisle do if he has zero intention of changing his rotations? (Who could blame him for that?)

You don't want to have a healthy Caron Butler sitting at the end of the bench with guys looking at you like "Hey uh, coach, what about Caron, maybe? please?" (though the uber stubborn jerk that is Rick Carlisle might do that...) so you probably wouldn't say publicly that he's ready and dress him, even if he is, right?

I doubt Caron suits-up unless Carlisle feels like he can actually contribute something...

markus1234 · 05-10-2011, 04:16 PM

When we are down 0-2 and nobody can guard lebron, then we can and should risk a lineup change with Butler...

Thomas86 · 05-10-2011, 06:43 PM

If the Mavs make it out the West Butler will be needed because Marion can't handle Lebron on his own and let's not even think about Peja stopping Lebron.

Caron Butler might be needed if the Mavs make it out the West and have to play the Heat.

dude1394 · 05-10-2011, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

If it aint broke, don't fix it. (Although Marion has been pretty awful... but Marion will be invaluable if we have to face Durant/Lebron)

Trust in RC. Even if he's "ready" he won't start imo... But it will be another nice swingman that can body up on someone.

b_o_r · 05-10-2011, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markus1234

When we are down 0-2 and nobody can guard lebron, then we can and should risk a lineup change with Butler...

A guy with no lateral movement, explosiveness, and who hasn't played in five months will not help the Mavs in that situation.

Rick41 · 05-10-2011, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas86

If the Mavs make it out the West Butler will be needed because Marion can't handle Lebron on his own and let's not even think about Peja stopping Lebron.

Caron Butler might be needed if the Mavs make it out the West and have to play the Heat.

You speak as if Butler will be 100% back in game shape and with no rust right off the bat from his injury.

Come off a 5 month injury and go straight to guarding Lebron.... don't think so.

Also, Both the heat and Mavs have to make it to the finals first to even start thinking on how to prepare for one another.

Thomas86 · 05-10-2011, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick41

You speak as if Butler will be 100% back in game shape and with no rust right off the bat from his injury.

Come off a 5 month injury and go straight to guarding Lebron.... don't think so.

Also, Both the heat and Mavs have to make it to the finals first to even start thinking on how to prepare for one another.

I said in my post that IF the Mavs make it to the finals, I didn't automatically put the Mavs in the Finals like some other people do.

Zki41 · 05-10-2011, 07:48 PM

If Caron only eats into a little bit of Stevenson's minutes, I don't necessarily see how that could be so bad. I think offensively he will shoot at a much higher percentage than Stevenson. I am not sure of his defensive impact at this stage however, or how Butler eating into Stevenson's minutes will effect Stevenson.

Zaknaf3in · 05-10-2011, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zki41

If Caron only eats into a little bit of Stevenson's minutes, I don't necessarily see how that could be so bad. I think offensively he will shoot at a much higher percentage than Stevenson. I am not sure of his defensive impact at this stage however, or how Butler eating into Stevenson's minutes will effect Stevenson.

Well, at this stage, it can't possibly be negative, can it?

StackAttack · 05-11-2011, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OSUmavsfan

I would think it's going to be for far less than he would have gotten had he not gotten injured. Not many teams are going to pursue a guy coming off an injury like that. Look at Josh Howard last season. He got no free agent attention after having season-ending knee surgery and ended up signing for something like $3 million to stay with the Wizards.

Well you also have to consider another issue Howard has referred to as "not being very good at basketball."

JeffViggiano · 05-11-2011, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markus1234

When we are down 0-2 and nobody can guard lebron, then we can and should risk a lineup change with Butler...

this!

i trust in RC.

twelli · 05-11-2011, 04:16 AM

I think Caron will get some minutes if there are any lop-sided wins or losses in the next series. He needs some real-game experience when it doesn't matter. He's not thrown in there when a game is close. Same goes for Beaubois if he's able to play.