Mavs Free Agency 11/12

[dalger]

The one thing that could actually be an advantage is that only the Mavs can offer Tyson a fifth year, meaning they could pay him less per year than other teams while still coming up with a bigger contract overall. Offering him 60/5 would require another team to pay him $15 million per year to match it. It's possible that Tyson would prefer the money or even a little less over four instead of five years and hope for another decent contract in 2015 when he's "only" 33. Then again, he could very well be of the mindset to maximize the overall amount of money in his upcoming contract, regardless of the years. That would favor the Mavs.

Seeing the asking prices for Nene, Gasol and Chandler is quite funny. I'd be shocked to see all three of them even average the $14.8 million per year that Nene reportedly wants. If all three managed to average around $15 million per anno, I couldn't help but laugh at the owners for crying about deficits for months and then hand out huge contracts to decent but not great players--contracts that could either put these teams under even bigger financial pressure due to the future luxury tax or keep them from being competitive due to paying big money to guys who might not be worth it.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by j0Shi

Getting a little confused right now. Obviously Mavs could resign Ty with Bird Exception, but then would most certainly went over the Tax threshold and couldn't use the Full MLE. Butler and JJB are also Bird Agents, so why not spend the MLE first and then resign all your Bird Agents? Is there a certain "order" that you have to keep?

See #9.

[Five-ofan]

If someone gives chandler 20 mil a year that idiot should be taken out back and shot before they can procreate.

[j0Shi]

Originally Posted by jthig32

See #9.

Great summary. Thx!

[jthig32]

BTW, has everyone noticed that the Mavs seem to not be mentioned at all any time someone mentions Butler and who's in on him?

As I've said all along, I think the Mavs are only interested in a one year, small contract that lets him re-establish his value. With so much cap space available, and such a weak free agent class, it would appear that he's going to net a MLE-ish deal for multiple years. And if that's the case, I think the Mavs are 100% out on him.

Could still be proven wrong, but things certainly seem to be trending that direction.

[CATCH-17]

Originally Posted by 41mvp

For me Tyson Chandler is one of the best C in the league.And he is worth every money.I don't want know what will happen when Tyson go.

Dallas will start giving up easy buckets again and we won't ever sniff another title.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs

My guess is he ends up with someone like Houston, a team he wont put over the top, for something like $15-$17mil/year. I think we're saying goodbye to Ty.

I dont really blame Donnie and Cubes for not signing him for that much.

After the McLady and Ming desaster the Rockets really wanna go down this road? 4-5years, 60m+ for Chandler?

[dude1394]

Hmmm..duh... I just realized that there is no draft this year. Sooooo next year will necessarily have to be one of the deepest drafts in history with a two year inventory and this might be some of the best college ball in a while.

[Melonhead]

Whats gonna suck this year is if Dallas doesnt bring Chandler back, and the Mavs revert back to old Mavs, without the defensive intensity around the basket.

Every time I see an easy bucket, Im sure I will whine about Cuban not bringing Chandler back haha

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Hmmm..duh... I just realized that there is no draft this year. Sooooo next year will necessarily have to be one of the deepest drafts in history with a two year inventory and this might be some of the best college ball in a while.

They had a draft before the lockout.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by jthig32

They had a draft before the lockout.

Yep, just doesn't seem like it because we traded our pick for Rudy Fernandez...

[dude1394]

Oh yea...thanks...completely slipped my mind with all of the euphoria. So have the top picks (whomever they are) been signed? None of the drama this year.

[grndmstr_c]

I don't buy the numbers that are getting thrown around in the media for Tyson right now. I still expect him to be priced out of the Mavs' range, but I'll be fairly shocked if anybody offers him a bigger per-year salary than what Gasol gets.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

I don't buy the numbers that are getting thrown around in the media for Tyson right now. I still expect him to be priced out of the Mavs' range, but I'll be fairly shocked if anybody offers him a bigger per-year salary than what Gasol gets.

I agree completely. In fact the salary orders seem to be based on city size. I would be very willing to take gasol ( Marc).

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Yep, just doesn't seem like it because we traded our pick for Rudy Fernandez...

Good thing, too.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

The San Antonio Spurs have emerged as a strong suitor for free agent forward Caron Butler, according to a source.
Butler, the Mavericks’ forward who is coming off a knee injury suffered on New Year’s Day that caused him to miss the rest of last season, is one of the most sought-after small forwards in free agency. He is currently being pursued by the Heat, Bulls, Spurs, Clippers, Nets, Pistons and Bucks, according to the source. The Sacramento Kings were also initially interested in Butler, but have fallen off the hunt in the last couple of days. Butler, who works out in Chicago in the offseason with trainer Tim Grover, is expected to meet with the Bulls sometime in the next few days before making a decision on where he wants to go.
Butler could still re-sign with Dallas, but the Mavericks apparently have concerns about their status as a luxury tax payer going forward. With several other free agents to also decide on, including center Tyson Chandler and guards J.J. Barea and DeShawn Stevenson, the Mavs won’t be able to keep all of them.

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2011/1...or-for-butler/

[LonghornDub]

The San Antonio Spurs have emerged as a strong suitor for free agent forward Caron Butler, according to a source.

I threw up a little in my mouth.

[OSUmavsfan]

Originally Posted by j0Shi

Getting a little confused right now. Obviously Mavs could resign Ty with Bird Exception, but then would most certainly went over the Tax threshold and couldn't use the Full MLE. Butler and JJB are also Bird Agents, so why not spend the MLE first and then resign all your Bird Agents? Is there a certain "order" that you have to keep?

From the CBA summary released by SI:

A team in any season that uses the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level
Exception or the Bi-Annual Exception, or that in year 3 or after
acquires a free agent in a sign-and-trade transaction, cannot at any
time thereafter have a team salary at any point during that season in
excess of $4 million above the Tax level.

So it sounds like there's essentially a hard cap once they use the non-taxpayer exception, meaning they'd essentially lose the ability to pay Tyson (or any bird player) whatever they wanted. That's interesting and it could put the Mavs in a tough situation.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by jthig32

BTW, has everyone noticed that the Mavs seem to not be mentioned at all any time someone mentions Butler and who's in on him?

As I've said all along, I think the Mavs are only interested in a one year, small contract that lets him re-establish his value. With so much cap space available, and such a weak free agent class, it would appear that he's going to net a MLE-ish deal for multiple years. And if that's the case, I think the Mavs are 100% out on him.

Could still be proven wrong, but things certainly seem to be trending that direction.

Yup. And contrast that with the reports about Barea. The impression I've gotten is that: 1) Caron's departure is little more than a formality at this point, and 2) though I'm guessing a bit more wildly here, re-signing JJB to a multi-year deal is something the Mavs are genuinely going to push for.

Unrelated random thought: anybody else think it almost makes too much sense that the Mavs would be actively looking for ways to land Kaman right now?

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Unrelated random thought: anybody else think it almost makes too much sense that the Mavs would be actively looking for ways to land Kaman right now?

That's a name I was interested in before we signed Haywood or Chandler. Dirk played with him in Germany and seems to like the guy. He's a decent rebounder/defender and would definitely bring more offense to the center position.

His biggest knock is that he can't stay healthy - he only played 32 games last season... Any idea what his health is like these days?

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by Underdog

That's a name I was interested in before we signed Haywood or Chandler... Dirk played with him in Germany and seems to like the guy. He's decent at rebounding and defending, and would definitely bring more offense to the center position.

His biggest knock is that he can't stay healthy - he only played 32 games last season... Any idea what his health like these days?

I think he played for Germany over the summer, but I can't recall anything else very current about him health-wise. I'm not his biggest fan, but he's only got a year left on his deal, so I can imagine the Mavs viewing him as a low risk, high potential reward alternative to Tyson. He just fits the bill for this year's Mavs team in a number of ways. Getting him's more tricky, though, because I'm sure Dallas wouldn't be the only team with interest, even with his injury history. The most recent rumor I'd seen about him involved Detroit and T. Prince, who the Clippers are said to covet.

Edit: One other potential complication is that the Mavs may be fairly determined to stay below the tax line this season so that the dreaded four-times-in five-years clock doesn't starting ticking until after they've taken their shot at next year's free agent class.

[GermanDunk]

"Stock up crib" - Kaman. I would love it.

[j0Shi]

Butler to SA?

F that...

Hopefully he'll be the next Richard Jefferson...

[mavs777]

Not sure how I feel about the Caron to Spurs possibility news, as a Mav fan I kind of like it, I want the spurs to cut into Kawhi's minutes, he is going to be a stud, as an SDSU fan I want him to get his minutes, really hate that Kawhi was traded to the spurs

[Mavsfan4ever]

I hate the idea of Butler ending up with a rival like the Spurs hopefully it is just talk.

[j0Shi]

First (some sort of) reliable numbers:

GSW in the mix with about 16M under the Cap if they amnesty Biedrins.

So they can offer 4yrs/69M to Chandler at best.

16.085.625 (1st)
16.861.875 (2nd)
17.638.125 (3rd)
18.414.375 (4th)
--------------
17.250.000 (avg)

That's the max 4yrs/4.5% raises starting at ~16M

Mavs could match that with a starting salary of 15.309.375 with 7.5% raises

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Hmmm..duh... I just realized that there is no draft this year. Sooooo next year will necessarily have to be one of the deepest drafts in history with a two year inventory and this might be some of the best college ball in a while.

Because of the potential lockout a lot of top prospects pulled out of this years draft. Next years draft is considered to be very strong and also kind of deep. Some say even 2003 potential...

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by j0Shi

First (some sort of) reliable numbers:

GSW in the mix with about 16M under the Cap if they amnesty Biedrins.

So they can offer 4yrs/69M to Chandler at best.

16.085.625 (1st)
16.861.875 (2nd)
17.638.125 (3rd)
18.414.375 (4th)
--------------
17.250.000 (avg)

That's the max 4yrs/4.5% raises starting at ~16M

Mavs could match that with a starting salary of 15.309.375 with 7.5% raises

Forget about that happening.

[sefant77]

Chandler:
Marc Stein told that the Raptors are saving their Cap/AR for 2012, so they are out in the race of overpaying Chandler.

I still dont believe that the Warriors would amnesty Biedrins so they can overpay Chandler. They would have to pay Biedrins ~20M, so at the end they would pay this 20M additional to a potential 50-60M contract for Chandler. No way.

I pretty much expect Barea to stay and the Mavs offering him a "honest" contract. Specially with Roddy still having this huge questionmark. No MLE but yeah in that 3.5M area i guess. Three years, maybe the 4th with a team option.

And yeah, Butler is probably gone, looks like the Mavs arent that interested with Brewer in their backpockets (and trying to bring Stevenson back cheap). And looks like several playoff teams are willing to gamble on him with a multiyear MLE deal.

[sbibi]

Funny how people tend to forget how we all, mavs fans and the rest of the league, thought that we needed a 2-way player such as Butler prior to the playoffs. I believe that we will desperately need him this year. Outside of Dirk, we do not have a player who can create his own shot besides JET. I would prefer to have Terry as our 3rd option and not our 2nd option. Otherwise, we will be doomed. Consider this while we have Ty and Barea back. I am not feeling good about this at all. Thank God we won that championship.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by sbibi

Funny how people tend to forget how we all, mavs fans and the rest of the league, thought that we needed a 2-way player such as Butler prior to the playoffs. I believe that we will desperately need him this year. Outside of Dirk, we do not have a player who can create his own shot besides JET. I would prefer to have Terry as our 3rd option and not our 2nd option. Otherwise, we will be doomed. Consider this while we have Ty and Barea back. I am not feeling good about this at all. Thank God we won that championship.

So let me get this straight...people thought we needed Caron for the playoffs to compete for a championship...Caron didn't make it back for the playoffs and we won the championship anyway...therefore we need Caron to compete for a championship???

I think your logic box is broken.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Whats gonna suck this year is if Dallas doesnt bring Chandler back, and the Mavs revert back to old Mavs, without the defensive intensity around the basket.

Every time I see an easy bucket, Im sure I will whine about Cuban not bringing Chandler back haha

If Haywood is healthy, we can be all right. I know we had him last playoffs, but last year's team didn't nearly work that well. And in this year's playoffs, i believe our "Haywood" lineups were just as dominant as the the lineups with Chandler. I know i remember against the Lakers we outscored them even more with Haywood compared to Chandler. Maybe against Portland, that wasn't the case, don't remember. Also if we can get Dalembert, or maybe Kaman, i think we have almost as good of a chance as last season. Or Mahinmi can shine with more minutes, who knows.

[dude1394]

Well I hope big wood is okay but I sincerely doubt he will be close to Tyson offensively ( I know that not saying a lot ) but wood IMO won't even be the threat that Tyson was when jjb/jet got into the lane. Just not quick enough off his feet.

He'll be better against really strong post players, but I see wood as a big drop off. I know that is up for debate. I hope we dont have to test it.

[sbibi]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

So let me get this straight...people thought we needed Caron for the playoffs to compete for a championship...Caron didn't make it back for the playoffs and we won the championship anyway...therefore we need Caron to compete for a championship???

I think your logic box is broken.

I forgot to add that when we added Peja and Brewer, that supposedly helped replace him. Now that we probably won't have Peja anymore, I believe we're going to somewhat need Caron back. I was, in fact, purely surprised that we did it without him. Not sure why though. Maybe some luck had a tiny bit to do with it.

[DubOverdose]

I'd let Tyson walk at anything north of 13 million, but I'd be hesitant of anything above 11 million. While Tyson is our best center, I think we're still pretty good with Haywood and Mahinmi.

While I know veteran teams tend to win the championship, I have a hard time believing we wouldn't be in much better shape if we tried to get some younger talent to fill out our roster rather than signing injury-prone players to high-dollar, long-term contracts.

[xrobx]

we were 24-5 last season including 2 wins over the heat with butler in the lineup pre dirk and his injuries.

think about that.

24-5

that's not too shabby

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Well I hope big wood is okay but I sincerely doubt he will be close to Tyson offensively ( I know that not saying a lot ) but wood IMO won't even be the threat that Tyson was when job/jet got into the lane. Just not quick enough off his feet.

Though I'm more optimistic about Wood than you are, that's a valid concern. I tend to think that the young guys - Booby, DoJo, Rudy, Corey and Ian - are going to be pretty important in determining how well things come together with Brendan getting the majority of the center minutes (if it comes to that). The Mavs don't need all of them to play well in order to have success next year; but if, say, Rudy rediscovers his form from a couple years back, and Corey takes a big enough step forward to become a rotation player, I tend to think the additional perimeter length/athleticism they'd provide would result in an on-court balance that was considerably more Wood-friendly than what the team had last year. Of course, that still leaves backup center as an issue. It'd be terrific if Ian could step in to fill that hole, because he'd be a nice change-up offensively, but there I might be guilty of wishing for too many things to go right.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Though I'm more optimistic about Wood than you are, that's a valid concern. I tend to think that the young guys - Booby, DoJo, Rudy, Corey and Ian - are going to be pretty important in determining how well things come together with Brendan getting the majority of the center minutes (if it comes to that). The Mavs don't need all of them to play well in order to have success next year; but if, say, Rudy rediscovers his form from a couple years back, and Corey takes a big enough step forward to become a rotation player, I tend to think the additional perimeter length/athleticism they'd provide would result in an on-court balance that was considerably more Wood-friendly than what the team had last year. Of course, that still leaves backup center as an issue. It'd be terrific if Ian could step in to fill that hole, because he'd be a nice change-up offensively, but there I might be guilty of wishing for too many things to go right.

I understand your thinking...IMO however at crunch time it's going to be jet, jkiddo, shawn/Rudy/brewer, dirk and wood. I don't see where those guys are going to bust into the winning time rotation to make a defensive/offensive difference when it counts.

I can see those guys helping in the middle but at the end of games wood is going to have to give us the pnr defense and offense that Tyson did, those other guy will all be on the bench the last 12 minutes or so.

Wood also obviously has to hit free throws or he'll be on the bench as well. The free throw thing bugs me also, it makes me think he is weak of mind. He was 20-43 and few if any were in tight games.

[Bayliss]

The biggest difference on offense between Tyson and Brendan is FT shooting. Teams didn't want to foul Tyson because he was good at it relative to his size. Tyson wasn't afraid of the foul because he would knock them down at the line.

Brendan last year got in a funk (not quite Andres Biedrins type funk at the line) but still he did not want to shoot them. And that affects the team's confidence.

[Bayliss]

Oh and Tyson aint worth the money but he is such a great fit next to Dirk and a pass first point guard.