GDT: 04/01 Dallas Mavericks @ Phoenix Suns - Page 14 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Windmill360 · 04-01-2007, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by left texas

This is one of 12 losses for the Mavs this season. It is not the end of the world. Seems when this team does lose, that everybody starts writing them off. Coach Johnson has done a great job of getting this team to realize just what caused the breakdowns, and making adjustments to go forward. It does mean something that the Mavs went on and won 9 in a row after their last lost, while the Suns struggled to be over 500 in that same time frame. This team will not fold and will continue to work on their game for the last nine. This game was no more important than any other, in that sense. I know I wanted the Mavs to win this game as I know they wanted to and I am sure I am taking the loss harder than they are. Will Dirk lose sleep over this game, I think not.

That is why it is great that all the playoff series go seven games now. The Mavs have been able to rebound better than any other team in the league after a loss. I love that they don't get to high or to low on the results of one game.

The West is going to have the best round of playoffs that there has ever been. The Mavs, Suns, Spurs, and Rockets all have a legit chance of winning the West. My money still goes with the team that has been the most consistant over this enitre season, which just happens to be the Mavs.

No kidding. Give me a break. This is only our 12 LOSS, people. You guys are overweighing the bad things in place of all the good things we've done this season. I don't get it. I wonder how people would be acting if this had been our 18th loss.

dirno2000 · 04-01-2007, 08:33 PM

Quote:

This loss is eerily reminiscent of the blowout loss to Detroit on the eve of the '05 playoffs. After that game, the talk was about how the team needed to get back to basics.

Or maybe it's reminiscent of last years 117-104 loss in PXH. The one that came on the heels of the 114-102 loss in Golden State.

chumdawg · 04-01-2007, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

Chum you have some great insights a lot of the time but you're definitely being way too pessimistic here, just as you were when you claimed early in the season that this Mavs team "would be lucky to win 50 games".

Obviously I was way off with the 50 games thing. But looking at it today, I think there is a problem with the way Avery Johnson leads this team. I have never ONCE heard him take blame for a poor performance. Today he said, "They executed great, and we never left the hotel." Awfully convenient excuse. Takes his ass out of the frying pan for his game plan and in-game coaching. Puts a lot of blame on his players (though in a passive-aggressive sort of way). And now if they will just go back to practicing it the way he says to do it, they will be okay.

He's an arrogant SOB. But if he were so good, his team wouldn't need a practice to know how to play in an April game.

I'm telling you, it's just like the Detroit blowout in '05. Avery was talking left and right after that game about how the team needed more practices, needed to get back to fundamentals. I said at the time that April is too late to work on fundamentals if you are going to win a championship--unless your coach is a megalomaniac who believes that whenever anything goes wrong it's because the team didn't follow his orders.

Championship teams are gelling right now--not going back to the drawing board in practice.

dallas85 · 04-01-2007, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Last I checked, your chump team still hadn't made it out of the WCF.

Run along now, troll...

Suns have made it out of the WCF's twice to the Mavs 1.

dirno2000 · 04-01-2007, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Championship teams are gelling right now

Who are these championship teams? The Spurs just lost to a team that probably won't make the playoffss in the East. Coming into today the Suns were 4-4 in their last 8. Houston just lost a very important game on it's home court to Utah.

You're so worried about our issues that you're overlooking everybody elses.

left texas · 04-01-2007, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Obviously I was way off with the 50 games thing. But looking at it today, I think there is a problem with the way Avery Johnson leads this team. I have never ONCE heard him take blame for a poor performance. Today he said, "They executed great, and we never left the hotel." Awfully convenient excuse. Takes his ass out of the frying pan for his game plan and in-game coaching. Puts a lot of blame on his players (though in a passive-aggressive sort of way). And now if they will just go back to practicing it the way he says to do it, they will be okay.

He's an arrogant SOB. But if he were so good, his team wouldn't need a practice to know how to play in an April game.

I'm telling you, it's just like the Detroit blowout in '05. Avery was talking left and right after that game about how the team needed more practices, needed to get back to fundamentals. I said at the time that April is too late to work on fundamentals if you are going to win a championship--unless your coach is a megalomaniac who believes that whenever anything goes wrong it's because the team didn't follow his orders.

Championship teams are gelling right now--not going back to the drawing board in practice.

Chum, let's just see how the last few games go for each team, then see if the suns might need a few practices. As far as the arrogant SOB is concerned he has taken this team to the best record in the NBA, and that does mean something.

Windmill360 · 04-01-2007, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

Who are these championship teams? The Spurs just lost to a team that probably won't make the playoffss in the East. Coming into today the Suns were 4-4 in their last 8. Houston just lost a very important game on it's home court to Utah.

You're so worried about our issues that you're overlooking everybody elses.

Not to mention Detroit has lost 4 of their last 10 and are often on and off due to injuries; Miami is 5-5 in their last ten as well as Utah and Cleaveland, hell everyone is having their problems.

nashtymavsfan13 · 04-01-2007, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Does this sound like a team peaking for the postseason? They need a PRACTICE? They've been playing for six months, and they evidently need a PRACTICE? You're talking to me about PRACTICE?

This loss is eerily reminiscent of the blowout loss to Detroit on the eve of the '05 playoffs. After that game, the talk was about how the team needed to get back to basics.

It's a little late in the season, then as now, to be going back to the drawing board.

This team is discombobulated. It has a split personality. It can handle lesser teams with ease, but it struggles for its identity against elite teams.

At some point--some point very soon--they are going to run out of practices. This is supposed to be the time of year that teams have it on automatic. There are no practices in the playoffs.

God, I hope the practices go well! There is so precious little time left.

All Avery is saying is that they need to clean up some things, not that they need to go back to the basics. I agree that they aren't as ready as they should be for the playoffs, but have some faith in these guys. They'll pull it together when they need to, their chemistry is much better than last year. They'll pull it together, they'll be fine.

left texas · 04-01-2007, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windmill360°

Not to mention Detroit has lost 4 of their last 10 and are often on and off due to injuries; Miami is 5-5 in their last ten as well as Utah and Cleaveland, hell everyone is having their problems.

Right on!! The sky is not falling!

Dirkadirkastan · 04-01-2007, 08:55 PM

Chum, don't talk about Avery anymore. No matter what he says, after a win or a loss, it's wrong according to you. Whether he gives his team credit after a win, credits the other team after a loss, criticizes his own players after a loss, blames his own coaching after a loss (yes he's done that before), he always plays the wrong card apparently. I bet if Nelson said the exact same words, you would praise him for being such a good coach. That's how biased you are.

chumdawg · 04-01-2007, 09:00 PM

All I'm saying is there comes a witching hour, when all these deficiencies catch up to you.

AJ is a nice mouthpiece. Not sure he's much of a game manager.

left texas · 04-01-2007, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

All I'm saying is there comes a witching hour, when all these deficiencies catch up to you.

AJ is a nice mouthpiece. Not sure he's much of a game manager.

Chum how can you have your team at 61-12 and not be a game manager?

Dirkadirkastan · 04-01-2007, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by left texas

Chum how can you have your team at 61-12 and not be a game manager?

Easy. He's a Don Nelson replacement.

jthig32 · 04-01-2007, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I really don't understand this. You and thig are claiming that there is nothing that could possibly have happened in this game that could influence how you feel about a playoff matchup with the Suns, right? I just don't get that.

If regular-season games mean absolutely nothing, then the Mavs are one team of 30 in this league. I just don't get it. 61-12 and the best record means something, doesn't it? But you can cherry pick the games you will pull out as meaningless?

If this game didn't mean anything, then the whole damn season means nothing.

You guys are talking crazy talk. What could POSSIBLY be a better indicator of how the teams will play against each other next time, than the way they played against each other this time?

It's as if you think the way the Mavs play the Knicks or the Celtics tells you more about how they will play the Suns than...the way they play the Suns. Blows the mind.

Come on Chum, you're a stats guy. Of COURSE a team's track record over a season means more than one game against one certain team. It's called SAMPLE SIZE. You know that.

Now, if we lost this game to get swept by the Suns this season, then you might have some ground to stand on. If we had a poor record against the other good teams of the West, I might be inclined to agree with you.

But neither of those conditions are true. We've split the season series with the Suns. If you want to choose now to preach doom and gloom about the upcoming playoffs, go ahead. But I get the feeling you'd be looking down with disdain on the people declaring the Suns pretenders if WE'D won this game. In fact I imagine you'd be telling them that the regular season doesn't always continue in the playoffs, and anyone discounting the Suns is making a mistake.

Well I think if you're going to start sounding the alarm bells after this one game, you're making a mistake.

TheBlueVan · 04-01-2007, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

All I'm saying is there comes a witching hour, when all these deficiencies catch up to you.

AJ is a nice mouthpiece. Not sure he's much of a game manager.

he's a hell of a lot better than d'antoni. when dirks that cold, and the other team is that hot, any coach is going to look bad

that being said, im sort of in the "sky is falling" camp because we should not look THIS BAD at the end of the regular season. honestly we havent looked that dominant for awhile, but hopefully we can put it together in the last 9 games.

DIRK needs to get his act together. stop freaking deferring and take his game inside or he's going to get pushed around really bad in the playoffs

purplefrog · 04-01-2007, 09:38 PM

Chum, you are really hard to figure. We get our butts kicked today and Avery says we have somethings to work on in practice. You label him as arrogant and a poor game manager. Whatever. Can't a team simply play a lousy game every now and then? Sometimes it happens for no good reason. What did you say when the Suns got their butts kicked by the Warriors, the Nuggets, and the Pistons... Was D'antoni a pathetic excuse for a coach (actually I think he is, but that's beside the point). Was the Suns' season over? No, they came back and blew out the Mavs! Really. This is ridiculous knee-jerking.

kg_veteran · 04-01-2007, 09:41 PM

Chum - Of course overall regular season record matters, because it determines seeding. The Mavs have already pretty much locked up the No. 1 seed, so the game didn't matter from that standpoint.

As for the head-to-head significance, sure, it shows how the Suns are capable of beating the Mavs. But didn't we already know that? Did this game really convince you of something new? Last season, the Mavs won the first two meetings, and the Suns won the last two meetings. And it meant *nothing* when the playoffs rolled around. The season before, the Suns won 2 of 3 from the Mavs. And it meant *nothing* when the playoffs rolled around. The season before that, the Mavs won 3 of 4 from Sacramento. And it meant *nothing* when the playoffs rolled around.

You have to beat your opponent in a playoff series.

The Mavs played poorly today. By any measure that you use, however, they play well a lot more often than they play poorly. They're not robots! Give them a little latitude. Dirk's still playing on a bad ankle, George and Buckner are trying to round back into form, and Dampier was hurt. And they played poorly. It happens.

It's not a harbringer of death, for goodness sakes.

One other thing. Your criticisms of Avery are not only unfair and ridiculous, but they're inaccurate as well.

Dirkadirkastan · 04-01-2007, 09:45 PM

No, purple, he's not kneejerking. He's just taking every opportunity available to rip Avery. As much as Chum blames Avery for every bad thing that happens, if the Mavs win the title, he would give him absolutely no credit for it. None. Zip. Zilch. Zero. Squat.

kg_veteran · 04-01-2007, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

No, purple, he's not kneejerking. He's just taking every opportunity available to rip Avery. As much as Chum blames Avery for every bad thing that happens, if the Mavs win the title, he would give him absolutely no credit for it. None. Zip. Zilch. Zero. Squat.

Why would he get any credit? He's a terrible in-game coach. If they win the title it will probably be because the players ignore him and go it on their own.

Stylistic · 04-01-2007, 09:50 PM

What Detroit game are you all talking about in 2005? We beat them the 2nd game that was in late March, I believe.

San Antonio 68
Dallas 104

Remember that game. I bet SA was worried going into the playoffs then. This happens many times. Sky is not falling.

Big Shot Rob · 04-01-2007, 10:48 PM

This game is no big deal at all.

None. Nothing.

Nada.

It gives Suns fans something to gloat about.

The best teams--the teams that win championships--have games like this along the way towards the end of the year.

Most important thing: give the team reduced minutes to the starters to keep them healthy and fresh for the playoffs.

Don't show your cards before the playoffs begin.

Give bench more minutes to develop as much as possible going into the playoffs.

Can't get too high after a win or too low after a loss.

I concede--the Suns may be a bit better than I gave them credit for.

And the Mavs are only human and capable of having an off game every few weeks.

Mavs have secured home court throughout the playoffs--these last few games are meaningless unless you really want to go for a 70 game win record, which in itself itself is totally worthless and may hurt you in the long run if you expend too much energy securing that stat.

THat having been said--I still contend--

Mavs will not play the Suns for the rest of the season.

This was the last time the Suns anf the Mavs will play this season.

BSR

left texas · 04-01-2007, 10:57 PM

Spurs and Rockets both lost today. So I guess it means give the Suns the championship since they won in April. According to some of our experts in this forum that seems to be the criteria.

Dirkadirkastan · 04-01-2007, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by left texas

Spurs and Rockets both lost today. So I guess it means give the Suns the championship since they won in April. According to some of our experts in this forum that seems to be the criteria.

Pretty crazy, huh? How often does the entire Texas Triangle lose on the same day?

rmacomic · 04-01-2007, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

Pretty crazy, huh? How often does the entire Texas Triangle lose on the same day?

About every April 1st.

antoinewalker · 04-01-2007, 11:52 PM

tough loss for the mavs.

ShaggyDirk · 04-02-2007, 12:35 AM

YONK!

Lor20 · 04-02-2007, 01:28 AM

I think what some ppl here forget is that damp was missing and dirk isnt at 100% with his ankle right now and buckner isn't really himself again yet either. If you look at the stat sheet there is only 4 players on the mavs team that came out to play today:
JET,dirk, howard and stack made 94 out of the 104 points, diop had a HORRIBLE night, not getting a single shot off and only getting 3 easy defensive rebouds in 26 minutes - I didnt even notice that he was there for most of the game. Harris was trying but went 2-8 shooting wise.
so we had those 4 going 32-64 and the rest of the team 4-15 in a combined 94 minutes.
With diop on an off night and damp out dallas had to play with two SF's most of the night so they were lacking in size in the middle against the suns.
The only thing this game really teaches us is that some positions in our roster aren't as deep as others and that the mavs defense isnt used to playing on positions they dont usually play on with them basically sharing the C position it seemed like they just didnt know where they were supposed to play. Some of that blame would have to go to avery to not prepare the team better but practicing that would also decrese the "perfection" when everyone is on board. SG and C were pretty non existant that game and its hard to play 4 on 5 basketball against the second best team in the nba :-P. I guess we should just hope that we will have everyone healthy come playoff time because other than for one forward we dont have equivalent backups.

Big Shot Rob · 04-02-2007, 01:36 AM

Avery needs to sit these players down and rest them, dammit!

If they go into the playoffs hurt playing in games that mean absolutely NOTHING, then I will be critical of the Little General.

Lor20 · 04-02-2007, 02:03 AM

50-16 points in the paint for the suns shows pretty clearly how much the mavs would have needed damp. The suns went 25-30 in the paint and 12-21 from downtown. outside the paint they were 9-20 - so the defense there wasnt as bad as on the rest of the field.

Allie · 04-02-2007, 03:41 AM

Thank goodness this game didn't mean anything, but losing is never good.

This loss worries me , but I'm trying to stay positive.

GO MAVS!

DarenG · 04-02-2007, 10:37 AM

I agree with some of you guys. Blasting Avery for his overall abilities as coach is incredibly knee jerk. My gosh, he has coached this team to the best record in the NBA. I do find it funny that some people on this board are quick to defend Avery but in the same sentence say how bad D'Antoni is as a coach. Last time I checked the Suns are only a few games behind and their coach as won more games in 3 years then anybody else.

Get off the coaches already. It's hard to complain about coaches that have lead their teams to so much success over the last couple years. There is probably about 28 other teams in the NBA that would nab either one should they vacate their jobs today. People, calm down. The ship isn't sinking. The second season is right around the corner.

pkdumas · 04-02-2007, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarenG

Last time I checked the Suns are only a few games behind and their coach as won more games in 3 years then anybody else.

6 games behind is more than a few. Also, DanTony has won the most over the last 3 years only because Avery coached just 20 games 2 years ago, when he went 18-2. If you look at percentages, Avery blows DanTony away.