Dallas Mavericks Offseason Thread

[eyedentifyme]

Also remember, Miami pulled off that blockbuster in 2005 where they got Jason Williams, James Posey, and Antoine Walker to go along with Shaq and DWade. The possibility for the Mavericks to net three serviceable guys is there. The Mavericks need a bigger and better scorer/slasher on the wing as well as a scoring big man in the low post. The Mavericks are not one piece away.

[mavsmanic]

I think the mavs need home run moves this off season in order to get back to being contenders. Here are the moves that I think they can make.

1- Use the mid level exception to sign Shawn Marion. This may sound impossible but if Toronto is trying to cut cost and decides not to resign him, Dallas can get him. I do not see any of the teams that have cap room being interested in him. I like Artest or Ariza but, I think those guys are going to resign with their current teams.

2-Trade Stackhouse (and may be a draft pick) to Chicago for Kirk Hinrich. I think Chicago may be interested in Stack's instant expiring contract because they need cap room to resign Ben Gordon.

3. Resign Bass, Hollins, Singleton, and may be Green. Dallas has to resign most of these guys because they just do not have the cap room to go after other guys. I think if you trade for Hinrich, you can let Kidd walk. I think he is going to ask for more money than he deserves. Teams like Portland, the Lakers or Cleveland may be more willing to give him that kind of money. We will also need to sign a veteran PG and Center.

4- Trade Damp and filler to the clippers for Kaman. I do not think Kaman really fits in the clippers future plans yet he has a huge contract. I think the clippers may be willing to take Dampiers expiring contract in return for him.

This is what the new line up for Dallas would be.

Hinrich/Barea/veteran
Howard/Jet/Carrol
Marion/Wright/Green
Dirk/Bass/Williams
Kaman/Hollins/veteran

I think this team would be versatile, can go big or small, great on defense and offense, athletic, a good rebounding team, and younger than the current team.

[grndmstr_c]

I think I'd prefer Richard Jefferson to SJax if it came down to a choice between the two. RJ's worked his way to being a better shooter than Jackson, and is at least as strong defensively, whereas Jackson brings more to the passing game. The thing that tips it, though, is that I just have more trust that RJ would have his head in the right place.

That said, the deals that would potentially get each of those two are so different, it's hard to really compare.

[wilmtalk]

You make some good points J.Reno but I don't believe that we could fill the neccessary holes in one year. It will take at least two.

I live in the Warrior and Kings area and I must agree with the people who believe that that Jacksons success against the Mavs did not give a realistic picture of his real value. I see more of the Warriors and Kings because they are broadcast on the local channels. Jackson is not that clutch. He is not a very good shooter. Dirk requires some one who can hit the open shots when he passes out of the double. We should not give up an important aspect of our team's game just to fill a specific need. That kind of thinking is what created the mess we are in now.

Kidd is a bigger libility to this team than most of you realize. His skills and stats come at a great cost to other aspects of the game and the result of the trade off doesn't really translate into wins. We really need a point guard and a post player to compete for the champianship. We have too many specialists on this team already.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

I think I'd prefer Richard Jefferson to SJax if it came down to a choice between the two. RJ's worked his way to being a better shooter than Jackson, and is at least as strong defensively, whereas Jackson brings more to the passing game. The thing that tips it, though, is that I just have more trust that RJ would have his head in the right place.

That said, the deals that would potentially get each of those two are so different, it's hard to really compare.

I'll defer to you on this one because I kind of have an idea of what RJ can do...but I don't know the "meat and potatoes" of it all. But I agree on your thought that it's probably very different paths to get each guy. I guess a big question for me with RJ is, when things get tight and maybe physical...how does he react?

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Yes, and this is exactly my issue as well. I love S-jax's toughness, his defense, and his general mentality. I also like the fact that he's not scared to take a big shot. Frankly, the Mavs could use a guy like that more than just about anything else. But his propensity to have horrendously inefficient games really concerns me, especially given the current roster, which has one exceedingly efficient player (Dirk), and that's it.

Do you like his toughness, defense, willingness to take the big shot and mentality over Josh? If that's the case...they both can be pretty inefficient. I guess you're making the case that his inefficiency can totally downgrade all other facets that you mentioned, or am I reading that wrong?


edit: Reading some more with Milwaukee, they're looking to avoid the LT so Stack is something they'll want one way or another.

This was one I saw but I think it would need a tweak b/c we might not use part of their equation unless we just plan to trade it right away (which actually might not be a bad idea)

RJ + Ridnour for Stack + Josh

You just have to decide if you'd much rather have RJ over Josh and you have 6-7 million dollars in an expiring Ridnour deal. It's obvious Stack is in a gots to go situation, but do you want to use him in a deal for the swing player or do you want to push for the center with Stack?

[grndmstr_c]

No interest in Ridnour, and I wouldn't trade Josh straight up for RJ, much less use Josh AND Stack. For two such worthy trade chips I'd expect a much, much better return.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Do you like his toughness, defense, willingness to take the big shot and mentality over Josh? If that's the case...they both can be pretty inefficient. I guess you're making the case that his inefficiency can totally downgrade all other facets that you mentioned, or am I reading that wrong?

You got it, although I also would submit that Josh, for all his inefficiencies, is actually more efficient than S-jax. I really do think people's perception of S-jax is a bit tainted by the fact that he's pretty much owned the Mavs. If you look at the body of work, he's far less efficient overall than his performances against us would suggest. Unfortunately, if he becomes a Mav, he won't have the benefit of playing against us.

Both players have off the court issues, but that stuff rarely bothers me. The only reason I was ever down on Josh was because he was sucking it up on the court. He showed serious signs of improvement in the playoffs, though, despite being relatively unhealthy. That gives me reason for hope. He'll always be Josh Howard, so he'll always chunk up some bad shots, make some generally boneheaded plays, and the like, but I am 99.9% sure we'd be saying ALL the same things about S-jax after he played here for a season.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

No interest in Ridnour, and I wouldn't trade Josh straight up for RJ, much less use Josh AND Stack. For two such worthy trade chips I'd expect a much, much better return.

Yeah, I figured that was a very underwhelming deal, it really doesn't do very much unless you consider RJ a MAJOR improvement over Josh.

Would have to figure out another piece or two to make it work from their side to have those key parts involved in the deal.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

You got it, although I also would submit that Josh, for all his inefficiencies, is actually more efficient than S-jax. I really do think people's perception of S-jax is a bit tainted by the fact that he's pretty much owned the Mavs. If you look at the body of work, he's far less efficient overall than his performances against us would suggest. Unfortunately, if he becomes a Mav, he won't have the benefit of playing against us.

Both players have off the court issues, but that stuff rarely bothers me. The only reason I was ever down on Josh was because he was sucking it up on the court. He showed serious signs of improvement in the playoffs, though, despite being relatively unhealthy. That gives me reason for hope. He'll always be Josh Howard, so he'll always chunk up some bad shots, make some generally boneheaded plays, and the like, but I am 99.9% sure we'd be saying ALL the same things about S-jax after he played here for a season.

At least it's a new person to talk about, just kidding.

One thing that kind of worries me is the contract factor with of Josh It's me kind of being worried he might be more driven for the next contract which will probably be his last chance for a BIG one vs winning a title. He has shown a pattern of shutting guys out and going with the tunnel vision. He obviously DID have a nice stretch to end the year...but seriously, how long do we continue to wait for consistency? Maybe he just does enough to get paid and then he's over it.

[craggmac]

I'll say the same thing that I have said for the past six years: "The Mavs have to replace Eric Dampier with a center that is more of an offencive presence."

[Justin Credible]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

I'd absolutely be in favor of going after Bosh if he were available, but playing him at SF just seems silly. Dirk and Bosh at the 4/5, Kidd at point, and slashers/defenders at the 2/3 would be the way to take maximal advantage of what Bosh would bring to the roster.

See, I've heard quite a bit of this being discussed (Bosh at 5) but I don't see how he could possibly be effective at that position. As a 3 he still has the ability to drive to the paint, rotate out on a pick and roll, or just post up and take the shot. As a center he'd be stuck in the low post which means that a majority of his talent would be wasted.

Dirk at 4, Bosh at 3, new acquisition or Hollins at 5, Kidd at 1, and then the bench..

Sounds like it would work really well to me as long as Hollins played up to his potential (and put on a good 40 lbs in muscle weight).

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

You misunderstood me then. I said "I don't see the point" because I don't think he's the answer to any of our problems.

You're probably right, I apologize.

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Bosh at 3? Yuck, no thank you. He'd be about as effective there as Dirk. We already have problems with the high-caliber wingmen of the league. Playing a big man at the 3 would only make the problem much worse. You could play them at 4 and 5 respectively, but I just don't see it. They're both primarily high-post players. From the center spot we need shot blocking, help-side defense, and low-post scoring. Bosh doesn't excel at any of these areas.

Am I mistaken again?
1=PG
2=SG
3=SF
4=PF
5=C

[grndmstr_c]

I don't understand why you think playing Bosh at center means sticking him in the low post. Again, the offensive philosophy with a Dirk/Bosh tandem would be to take advantage of the midrange and perimeter skills that both guys have to turn the opposing defense inside out, not to try to plug a square peg into a round hole and make one of them act like Shaq.

[Justin Credible]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

I don't understand why you think playing Bosh at center means sticking him in the low post. Again, the offensive philosophy with a Dirk/Bosh tandem would be to take advantage of the midrange and perimeter skills that both guys have to turn the opposing defense inside out, not to try to plug a square peg into a round hole and make one of them act like Shaq.

I guess I just always pictured a center as playing in the low post, like Damp/Chandler/D Howard/etc.

I also don't see how Bosh playing at 3 would keep him from mid-range/perimeter. All it would do is put him in that exact position as well as the position to drive to the paint as needed.

You'll have to forgive me, I'm a nutswinger for the Bosh trade idea. I think that it's the best possible option that we have for the immediate future as well as long term. We bring in another great-shooting star and play him next to Dirk. He defends decently and can definitely thin out the offense and create more shots for Dirk and whomever else might be left. I mean, his D is nothing to write home about, but it's definitely better than what we're looking at now. He could be played at the 2 quite well, but it seems to me that at the 3 he would have more freedom to drive the lane as well as shoot those perimeter/mid-range shots.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Justin Credible

I guess I just always pictured a center as playing in the low post, like Damp/Chandler/D Howard/etc.

I also don't see how Bosh playing at 3 would keep him from mid-range/perimeter. All it would do is put him in that exact position as well as the position to drive to the paint as needed.

You'll have to forgive me, I'm a nutswinger for the Bosh trade idea. I think that it's the best possible option that we have for the immediate future as well as long term. We bring in another great-shooting star and play him next to Dirk. He defends decently and can definitely thin out the offense and create more shots for Dirk and whomever else might be left. I mean, his D is nothing to write home about, but it's definitely better than what we're looking at now. He could be played at the 2 quite well, but it seems to me that at the 3 he would have more freedom to drive the lane as well as shoot those perimeter/mid-range shots.

For me, it's possible that your idea works out with him creating more open shots, but it's not really the way I'd want it done. Shaq is ideal for me because he doesn't want the ball unless he's deep in the paint. Other than Dirk in the Denver series, when have we seen a Maverick consistently do work in the paint? You NEED a low post presence to wear a defense down, it's just going to be methodical. You can feed it to Shaq and make the defense decide:
* 1-1 on Shaq, he'll get us in foul trouble or get a ton of points in the paint
* We've gotta double Shaq and bring a bigger body to try to block his line of sight for passing...that leaves Dirk open.

You're dead either way.

It'd be great to look at the long term, but we can't really afford to do that. We started laying the groundwork 1-2 years ago that this was an all or nothing pushing, we're playing for now.

[bobatundi]

Originally Posted by craggmac

I'll say the same thing that I have said for the past six years: "The Mavs have to replace Eric Dampier with a center that is more of an offencive presence."

Weird considering he's only been on this team for five. Also weird that, in six years, you haven't learned to spell "offensive."

[sike]

wake me when things start happening...

[Justin Credible]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

For me, it's possible that your idea works out with him creating more open shots, but it's not really the way I'd want it done. Shaq is ideal for me because he doesn't want the ball unless he's deep in the paint. Other than Dirk in the Denver series, when have we seen a Maverick consistently do work in the paint? You NEED a low post presence to wear a defense down, it's just going to be methodical. You can feed it to Shaq and make the defense decide:
* 1-1 on Shaq, he'll get us in foul trouble or get a ton of points in the paint
* We've gotta double Shaq and bring a bigger body to try to block his line of sight for passing...that leaves Dirk open.

You're dead either way.

It'd be great to look at the long term, but we can't really afford to do that. We started laying the groundwork 1-2 years ago that this was an all or nothing pushing, we're playing for now.

Oh no, don't get me wrong.. I'm definitely not saying that picking up Bosh would be the end-all solution to our problem.. I just think that he would be the biggest and best piece for that puzzle. If there was some way to pull Shaq and Bosh I'd be happy, although I think that Shaq's speed (or lack thereof) could create quite a few problems as well.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by sike

wake me when things start happening...

I don't think you'll need someone for that...the ground will start shaking or something.

Originally Posted by Justin Credible

Oh no, don't get me wrong.. I'm definitely not saying that picking up Bosh would be the end-all solution to our problem.. I just think that he would be the biggest and best piece for that puzzle. If there was some way to pull Shaq and Bosh I'd be happy, although I think that Shaq's speed (or lack thereof) could create quite a few problems as well.

I would be stunned to find someone who would be upset if you had Dirk, Shaq and Bosh haha. I think that's going be next to impossible though. I'm still torn on how likely it'll be that we get Shaq. I think out of those two guys, Shaq is the most likely to happen for multiple reasons. I think if we go after Bosh we're going to be bidding against multiple teams, if it's for Shaq then I can't see many other teams being in the running. It's just a matter of how stubborn will Phoenix be or will we try to ask for more and that be the end of negotiations. Phoenix is hurting bad with money, so they really need to shed payroll immediately and we can definitely do that for them with Stack and etc.

We've been a team that lacks an identity for a while, Shaq would help establish a pace and rhythm. We've had issues with playing a half-court game on offense, he's a pretty big equalizer for that situation. Now the defense has to adjust to YOU because of Shaq, not the other way around. I think that's huge. I think he still can bring an intimidation factor as well on defense for guys trying to get in the lane. Now clearly he's not the only piece that needs to be brought in. Hopefully we can find a wing that helps in perimeter defense to where we're just not counting on the last line of defense (Shaq).

I'm starting to think more and more now in the past day or so that a fair amount of players might slip through the cracks and potentially be bigger bargains on the market. Teams just aren't going to bring out buckets of money to throw out to FAs. If they're under the cap, they won't go out of their way to get close the getting at that cap level and bordering the Luxury Tax, they'll get in a big hole that way. We just need to be smart and clearly identify our targets and see how it plays out.

You just don't blow all your assets on Shaq or Bosh or any other Center prospect via trade. There will be a deal out there, just find the right one and use the rest of the assets to work the wing position, and then use the MLE (LLE, etc) and draft to continue to fill out your roster.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

I definitely like the idea of trying to aquire Kirk Hinrich from Chicago, as someone mentioned above.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

I think I'd prefer Richard Jefferson to SJax if it came down to a choice between the two. RJ's worked his way to being a better shooter than Jackson, and is at least as strong defensively, whereas Jackson brings more to the passing game. The thing that tips it, though, is that I just have more trust that RJ would have his head in the right place.

That said, the deals that would potentially get each of those two are so different, it's hard to really compare.

I agree. I'm warming to RJ. RJ alone won't put us over the top but he would get us some easy baskets. Can we swing RJ or Marion, Felton and Kaman?

[AxdemxO]

Chicago is got a lot of decisions to make. If they resign Gordon than I think we can get them to make a good deal.

I would do a

Josh+ something for Deng/ Hinrich..IMO this would be an amazing trade for the Mavs
Stack and Damp for Redd or RJ and their high pick (maybe other pieces)


I would like a line up of

Kidd/Hinrich/JJ
Redd/Terry/Wright
Deng/ Wright
Dirk/ Bass/ PF
Damp/Hollins (if we can improve the C position..even better)

[mac222b]

Felton(preferred) or Jarret Jack- Full MLE-6yrs
Marion 4 J-Ho sign and trade
Shaq for Stack+Damp
LLE on a shooter(eddie house, grant hill, anthony parker, carney)or back-up big man
resign Kidd
we get improved perimeter defense and penetration, defense and rebounding at the 3, post offense. we're more versatile and deeper. Marion and Felton(or Jack) can both play 2 positions. Shaq is Shaq.

[Thomas86]

Shaq, Kamen and Chandler with Shaq being the best choice our the big men the Mavs need to be looking at, the Mavs need to build the team with vets and young guys not with old and injury prone players, I want Shaq on this team really bad because he is the only way Stern is gonne give us the title because Sten loves teams with SuperStars on them...if Shaq could bring a title to Dallas he would go down as the best C ever.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

I don't understand why you think playing Bosh at center means sticking him in the low post. Again, the offensive philosophy with a Dirk/Bosh tandem would be to take advantage of the midrange and perimeter skills that both guys have to turn the opposing defense inside out, not to try to plug a square peg into a round hole and make one of them act like Shaq.

I don't think that one of them is going to be forced to play in the post. My issue with Bosh is, we NEED a guy to play in the post. Could Dirk and Bosh work? I suppose it could, but it's just not the way I would go. I'd rather go after Kaman and a real stud at the 2 like VC or to a lesser extent RJ.

[Thomas86]

I heard the Hawks might be willing to part with both Marvin Williams and Acie Law......I think the Mavs should look into because Acie Law could learn alot under Kidd and could be our PG of the future.

[craggmac]

mod edit

[LSMF]

I don't understand why you guys want Bosh. If you play Bosh at Center, his defense is suspect against the bigger, stronger centers. On offense, he can score a bit in the paint but mostly he likes to shoot the mid-range jumper. If you play him at the 3, he'll get torched by the quicker SF's. He's basically another version of Dirk with less range on his jumper and a little more inside game.

Why not go after a real post presence like Shaq or Kaman?

[greensborohill]

Stack, Damp, Josh, Wright for Paul, Chandler, Peja

[sike]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I don't think you'll need someone for that...the ground will start shaking or something.

I like the way you talk

[sefant77]

About Jax+Azu: Nellie loves Azu, no way they trade BOTH Jackson and Azu for crap to stay with Ellis/Maggette/Craw...

I would love Mike Miller too. Smart as hell, great passer and a deadly shooter. His last 2 Memphis years were awesome.

Hopefully the Wolves have to cut also salary, Stacks 5 mio and the #22 could work and Wolves could save money even as Miller is allready an expiring contract. But would be a tough competition, i think kind of every playoff team would take Miller...

Jefferson
Miller
Jackson
Marion

I think thats my "realistic" wish order for the 2/3 spot (with Josh partly moved to the 2).

[sike]

Originally Posted by greensborohill

Stack, Damp, Josh, Wright for Paul, Chandler, Peja

bc New Orleans is looking to get rid of the 4th best player in the league?

[bernardos70]

Originally Posted by eyedentifyme

Yeah, I like the http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...tradeId=rdtu32 to get Okafor/Iguodala/Brand/GWallace.

Other possibilities:

1. Mavs trade JHo/Stack/Damp/Carroll/Cash to Milwaukee for Sessions/Villanueva/Redd/Jefferson; Use MLE on Ron Artest or Raymond Felton depending on whether or not we can trade for Sessions.

2. Mavs trade JHo/Stack/Damp/Carroll to Chicago for Deng/Noah/TThomas/JSalmons/Hinrich; Use MLE on Ron Artest or Raymond Felton depending on whether or not we can get Kirk Hinrich.

3. Mavs trade JHo/Damp to Minnesota for Gomes/Jefferson/Cardinal/Madsen. Use MLE on Raymond Felton, Ramon Sessions, Andre Miller, Rafer Alston, or Ron Artest.

4. Mavs trade JHo/Stack/Damp/Carroll to Washington for Butler/Jamison/Blatche/Songaila/Stevenson/Haywood. Use MLE on Raymond Felton, Ramon Sessions, Andre Miller, Rafer Alston, or Ron Artest.

5. Mavs trade JHo/Stack/Damp/Carroll/Jet to Philadelphia for Evans/Dalembert/Iguodala/LWilliams/Brand. Use MLE on Raymond Felton, Ramon Sessions, Andre Miller, Rafer Alston, or Ron Artest.

I certainly appreciate your neverending optimism and ability to keep any reality from tarnishing your views for our offseason.

(To be clear, it's not a jab at you, everyone's doing, but yours is quite hilarious cause there's quite a few options, none of them which are realistic).

[bernardos70]

In that note, can anyone check to see if Stack for Dwight Howard works straight up?

Do a Damp + Josh for Kobe and I think we're set.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by longsufferingmavsfan

I don't understand why you guys want Bosh. If you play Bosh at Center, his defense is suspect against the bigger, stronger centers. On offense, he can score a bit in the paint but mostly he likes to shoot the mid-range jumper. If you play him at the 3, he'll get torched by the quicker SF's. He's basically another version of Dirk with less range on his jumper and a little more inside game.

Why not go after a real post presence like Shaq or Kaman?

I tend to agree here.

You need a post presence, and defense whether it come from your center, or comes from your SF (ala Mark Aguire) --- doesn't really matter, but you need an inside presence.

If you keep Damp around, then you need a SF that can score inside, and a more defensive minded SG. If you upgrade your C, then you need more of a shooter and defender at SF and SG.

If you get Bosh and Dirk, then you need a Camby or Chandler to defend the rim, and play zone all the time. Bosh really doesn't fit that well.

I just don't know what the options are and what direction they want to go.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by longsufferingmavsfan

I don't understand why you guys want Bosh. If you play Bosh at Center, his defense is suspect against the bigger, stronger centers. On offense, he can score a bit in the paint but mostly he likes to shoot the mid-range jumper. If you play him at the 3, he'll get torched by the quicker SF's. He's basically another version of Dirk with less range on his jumper and a little more inside game.

Why not go after a real post presence like Shaq or Kaman?

Agree 100%...

Bosh and Dirk pretty much operate in the same space offensively - I have no idea why people think Bosh is a post player... And, of course, neither of them are quick enough to guard the 3 or big enough to bang around at the 5 (and I'm not just talking about Shaq - most centers in this league have more meat on their bones than Dirk or Bosh...)

Obviously, the biggest reason Bosh doesn't work is because he's basically the same player as Dirk...

Imagine a team where Nash is your PG and Kidd is your SG - you'd have two excellent players, but their pass-first game makes them too redundant to put on the court at the same time... It's pretty much the same thing with Dirk & Bosh - they're both bigs who play a finesse game instead of a power game (and Dirk NEEDS a low-post threat!)

I'd love to have Bosh if we didn't have Dirk, but thankfully we do - let's find someone who doesn't play the same position as our superstar...

[bernardos70]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I blame poor coaching. Obviously he was put into a position where he was ill fit to succeed.

Nelly? Poor coaching. Well, that's a first coming from you, my chum!

[toby451]

I see a lot of people talking about Bosh, but I was wondering something.

What would it take exactly to get Bosh? Josh/Bass and some expirings? I agree that I dont think Bosh would work with Dirk, but what about a 3 team deal?

Send whatever to get Bosh, send Bosh to lets say, Charlotte, and we get Gerald and Emeka. I am not suggesting thats the best deal, but if they would be even willing to trade us Bosh for something we had not named Dirk, they should easily be able to set up a 3 way.

[SMC0007]

The thought of Bosh at the 3 is completely laughable..

[sefant77]

Forget Bosh. If Toronto do a trade to get some value back they just have to call GS. Warriors do something like Ellis+Randolph+maybe Turias in a heartbeat.

Its so much better than anything we have to offer and the Warriors still have:

xy
Maggette
Jax
Bosh
Biedrins
(Craw, Wright, Azu)

[bobatundi]

mod edit