Do you think we'll make a major trade before the deadline? - Page 14 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

ReDirkulous Tyme · 01-11-2011, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I dont trust you because there is no way you could have considered every variable, and the very fact that there has been such an enormous roster turnover is reason to question your idea at all. Teams take time to gel-- and not just 20-30 games.

There isnt a way you can say that Terry is the reason we've sucked when a) Terry was there for the finals run and b) you can't isolate variables

Let me reiterate the argument:

1) If team a team with players D and J goes to the finals one year
2) The next few years the team with players D and J do terribly
3) We can't question player D
___________
4) Therefore, it was player J all along

but all that argument proves (even without all the other variables that are dropped out of the equation) is that at worst, player J had no effect, and at best the combination of D/J is necessary but not sufficient for success.

Its a 5-man game and although Terry's shooting often drops off in the playoffs, there are few people who actually pick up their FG% in the playoffs and even fewer 6th men (Dirk is one that does improve his numbers). You trade Terry for Jackson and its much much much more lateral than you would have us believe and it'd cost the team chemistry, leadership, and punchy scoring in the clutch for an overrated SF that is a downgrade on Butler in almost every way.

Never said I had considered EVERY variable, just the one's you thought that I hadn't. And no, Terry is not the REASON we've sucked, but our DEPENDENCE on him in the playoffs IS the reason we've sucked. I will not deny that he is an integral leader on this team. However, in order to be successful we have to rely on him less on the court. Terry is best as a 3rd, maybe even 4th option. That was the point I was trying to get across, although I'm still not completely against trading him. In my opinion, Terry is a nice commodity at this point, but not a necessary one to win a championship.

We'll see what the front office decides to do about everything, but I really think we need a player at either the 2 or 3 that can score at will, via either penetration or the jumper. In addition, we need more depth at PG, and more depth at the 4. I think we are one major piece, and possibly 1 minor piece to add in order to be a true contender, which is where I thought we were before the season started.

BGMaverick9 · 01-11-2011, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Mavericks Exceptions

Trade exceptions
4.3mil from Carroll (expires 7/13/11)
3.0mil from Nakera (expires 7/13/11)
3.9mil from Hump (expires 1/11/11-- today)

signing exceptions
5.77mil from the MLE

What about Q. Ross $1,033,342

SMC0007 · 01-11-2011, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

No offense but I'm not trying to help your argument or hurt anyone else's argument. Just saying... Dude is just not reliable.

I meant thanks for the analogy and laugh. Haven't heard that one before. I couldn't care less whose side you are on.

Funkman · 01-11-2011, 04:40 PM

Not sure just how cheap Mayo would be. Grizz traded Kevin Love to get him. And even if he isn't in good standing up there right now. I think Memphis is going to want more than a bag of beans for him. But I will admit, he is intriguing for the right price.

BGMaverick9 · 01-11-2011, 04:42 PM

EricaLubarsky, I edited my last post...I think they do have the Ross exception too.

EricaLubarsky · 01-11-2011, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReDirkulous Tyme

Never said I had considered EVERY variable, just the one's you thought that I hadn't. And no, Terry is not the REASON we've sucked, but our DEPENDENCE on him in the playoffs IS the reason we've suckedI will not deny that he is an integral leader on this team. However, in order to be successful we have to rely on him less on the court. Terry is best as a 3rd, maybe even 4th option.

then we agree completely. Terry is valuable to this team when he's limited to what he does well and he does a few things well that we need. He's a mature, passionate leader. He can spread the floor and make teams gamble about whether they want to double Dirk. He can occasionally but not terribly consistently put up 20+ pt games. Good teams need that and we need Terry here. We tried having him as the 2nd scorer and he just can't be that, but when put in the position to be the 3rd or 4th man, he's incredibly effective. When Butler got going this year, we were the perfect team that balanced creators/scorers with shooters.

[quote]That was the point I was trying to get across, although I'm still not completely against trading him. In my opinion, Terry is a nice commodity at this point, but not a necessary one to win a championship. [.quote]

I think Terry is a lot more valuable than people think to both how well the team runs on the floor and the chemistry they have off the floor. While he may not seem important with stats, trading him would be an enormous mistake because we'd get almost nothing in return and this team would be set back months in terms of chemistry.

Quote:

We'll see what the front office decides to do about everything, but I really think we need a player at either the 2 or 3 that can score at will, via either penetration or the jumper.

Exactly what I've been advocating.

Quote:

In addition, we need more depth at PG

Agreed, we could use a nice backup to take minutes from JJB and we will need a starter there by next season. Of the needs before the playoffs, I'd put it at the bottom of the stack though.

Quote:

and more depth at the 4.

No! We have Dirk, Marion, Cardinal and Mahinmi. That may be the deepest position that any team has at any position. The 4/5 is set. Without Dirk we are a little shallow at the 4 talentwise but without Dirk we also arent a playoff team.

Quote:

I think we are one major piece, and possibly 1 minor piece to add in order to be a true contender, which is where I thought we were before the season started.

I agree with you that we need 1 major piece to be a contender for rings, but not before Butler's injury. In my opinion we were contending for #1 in the league while healthy and could have won a championship with that team. With Butler down, I put us in the second tier of 3-6 seeded teams that aren't contending to go far in the playoffs. One careful move that nets us a starting-caliber 2/3 that fits into our system and doesn't interrupt our chemistry is all we need to return to where we were. If we get an ill-fitting piece, mix up our chemistry too much or trade away too much of our core, it could actually hurt our chances of success this year, which is why I think Terry is in the almost untouchable category. He has very little trade value compared to what he provides us, and he's extremely central to the chemistry of the cohesive team we built before Butler and Dirk went down. He isnt a valuable asset to other teams and trading him away could hurt our chances of success this year more than any benefit we'd get from trading him.

EricaLubarsky · 01-11-2011, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

EricaLubarsky, I edited my last post...I think they do have the Ross exception too.

yeah I think we still have that one until 2/14/11. Ill update the list, although it is not a terribly powerful trade chip

EricaLubarsky · 01-11-2011, 04:54 PM

Mavericks Exceptions

Trade exceptions (not combinable)
3.9mil from Hump (expires 1/11/11-- today)
4.3mil from Carroll (expires 7/13/11)
3.0mil from Nakera (expires 7/13/11)
1.0mil from Ross (expires 2/14/11)

signing exceptions (only for signing players)
5.77mil from the MLE

BGMaverick9 · 01-11-2011, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

yeah I think we still have that one until 2/14/11. Ill update the list, although it is not a terribly powerful trade chip

every penny can help...they can throw multiple exceptions at a team, just not in the same deal so an additional piece can help.

Montenegro · 01-11-2011, 05:02 PM

[Comment From Ivan from Montenegro] -That's me.
Do you think we'll make a major trade before the deadline?

Sefko: Don't think there's going to be a major one to be had. But with these guys, you never know. I'd like to think a support player who might be available with the Mavericks' $4.3-million exception would be the most likely scenario. But they've surprised all of us before.
It won't be Carmelo Anthony and I'm not getting any strong indications from people in the organization that Andre Iguodala is a prime target. Not with his salary for the next three years.
If some teams get really desperate to unload long-term players in a month, rest assured the Mavericks will be in the mix. But I just think this has to be a year when they stay put.

EricaLubarsky · 01-11-2011, 05:03 PM

speaking of pieces, do you know what picks we still have, BG? I've been looking at it but its hard to keep track. I'd love to put together a targets/assets thread here on DM.com

ReDirkulous Tyme · 01-11-2011, 05:06 PM

[QUOTE=EricaLubarsky;1145498]then we agree completely. Terry is valuable to this team when he's limited to what he does well and he does a few things well that we need. He's a mature, passionate leader. He can spread the floor and make teams gamble about whether they want to double Dirk. He can occasionally but not terribly consistently put up 20+ pt games. Good teams need that and we need Terry here. We tried having him as the 2nd scorer and he just can't be that, but when put in the position to be the 3rd or 4th man, he's incredibly effective. When Butler got going this year, we were the perfect team that balanced creators/scorers with shooters.

Quote:

That was the point I was trying to get across, although I'm still not completely against trading him. In my opinion, Terry is a nice commodity at this point, but not a necessary one to win a championship. [.quote]

I think Terry is a lot more valuable than people think to both how well the team runs on the floor and the chemistry they have off the floor. While he may not seem important with stats, trading him would be an enormous mistake because we'd get almost nothing in return and this team would be set back months in terms of chemistry.

Exactly what I've been advocating.

Agreed, we could use a nice backup to take minutes from JJB and we will need a starter there by next season. Of the needs before the playoffs, I'd put it at the bottom of the stack though.

No! We have Dirk, Marion, Cardinal and Mahinmi. That may be the deepest position that any team has at any position. The 4/5 is set. Without Dirk we are a little shallow at the 4 talentwise but without Dirk we also arent a playoff team.

I agree with you that we need 1 major piece to be a contender for rings, but not before Butler's injury. In my opinion we were contending for #1 in the league while healthy and could have won a championship with that team. With Butler down, I put us in the second tier of 3-6 seeded teams that aren't contending to go far in the playoffs. One careful move that nets us a starting-caliber 2/3 that fits into our system and doesn't interrupt our chemistry is all we need to return to where we were. If we get an ill-fitting piece, mix up our chemistry too much or trade away too much of our core, it could actually hurt our chances of success this year, which is why I think Terry is in the almost untouchable category. He has very little trade value compared to what he provides us, and he's extremely central to the chemistry of the cohesive team we built before Butler and Dirk went down. He isnt a valuable asset to other teams and trading him away could hurt our chances of success this year more than any benefit we'd get from trading him.

Sorry, I got distracted on my last statement about where were were at the beginning of the season and where we are now. I meant I think we're one major and 1 minor piece away from being a championship contender, whereas at the beginning of the season I thought we were ready to contend, but could use some depth at PG.

As far as depth at the 4 goes. I really am not a fan of Cardinal in big games. He's basically another Najera, with a better shot and worse defense. As far as Marion goes, I would like to really limit his minutes at the 4. I prefer to have a guy close to 7 feet to defend the 4, if for nothing else than being able to defend the bigger 4's in the post, in addition to extra length always helps in the rebounding department. Granted, Marion is an excellent rebounder, but I think that we could do better in the rebounding department with a larger backup 4. Personally, I would love to get a guy like Nene who could play both the 4 and 5 effectively. If we could trade Haywood + scrubs to get Nene, I think the Mavs would take care of the depth at the 4, while still retaining their depth at the 5.

As of now, I really think the Mavs should pounce on the opportunity to pick up DH on the cheap. He's still young, he plays great D, and brings a very different style to the offense then does Kidd. In all honesty, I kinda see DH as a far superior, big boy version of JJB. If we could pick up DH without giving up Roddy or any of the key members of the roster I think we should jump on it.

Secondly, I would be happy if the Mavs could pick up Martin/AI/S-Jax/Crash or any of the guys in that tier of players. If we could make these two moves, and maybe add a larger backup 4 I think the Mavs would be my obvious favorite to make it back to the finals.

BGMaverick9 · 01-11-2011, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

speaking of pieces, do you know what picks we still have, BG? I've been looking at it but its hard to keep track. I'd love to put together a targets/assets thread here on DM.com

I've been working on a massive 2-part trade piece that is going up on MMB this week. I just got done looking around the league and just finished the exceptions angle...haven't started looking at the picks angle yet.

I haven't seen stuff yet on future 1sts owed to other teams, so I think they're in the clear.
Conditionally, they have a second rounder due to them owned by Minnesota for 2012.
Conditionally, they have a second rounder due to them owned by Toronto for 2013.

BGMaverick9 · 01-11-2011, 07:20 PM

This is what I've gathered, feel free to add more

-The exceptions EricaLubarsky listed
-Non-consecutive first round picks for the next seven years
-Cash considerations limited to $3 million

Kidd Karma · 01-11-2011, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

This is what I've gathered, feel free to add more

-The exceptions EricaLubarsky listed
-Non-consecutive first round picks for the next seven years
-Cash considerations limited to $3 million

Yea, we haven't "mortgaged" the future since the Kidd deal, that has been paid in full with last draft's 1st.

mav4ever · 01-11-2011, 11:32 PM

no

tcat075 · 01-11-2011, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mav4ever

no

mavs777 · 01-12-2011, 01:11 AM

What about Gomes with the 4.1 Million TE?

mac222b · 01-12-2011, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

What about Gomes with the 4.1 Million TE?

that may be worst-case scenario. Gomes is all right, but hopefully the aim is for something better.

mavs777 · 01-12-2011, 01:50 AM

Some other guys making in that range on non contenders

Brandon Wright
Tony Allen
Luke Ridnour

Rick41 · 01-12-2011, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

Some other guys making in that range on non contenders

Brandon Wright
Tony Allen
Luke Ridnour

I've always wondered why we didn't get Ridnour.

He would be a solid backup PG behind Kidd.

CATCH-17 · 01-12-2011, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick41

I've always wondered why we didn't get Ridnour.

He would be a solid backup PG behind Kidd.

Carlisle loves JJB too much to make that move.

SMC0007 · 01-12-2011, 11:22 AM

You think JJB looks bad, wait until you see Ridnour without Dirk and Caron. Not having those key guys makes everyone else aside from De3 look really average at best.

mavs777 · 01-12-2011, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

You think JJB looks bad, wait until you see Ridnour without Dirk and Caron. Not having those key guys makes everyone else aside from De3 look really average at best.

JJB has been bad all season so I am not sure why him being without Dirk and Caron have to do with anything

SMC0007 · 01-12-2011, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

JJB has been bad all season so I am not sure why him being without Dirk and Caron have to do with anything

Are you serious?

CATCH-17 · 01-12-2011, 01:29 PM

I'll throw out another name.

Steve Nash.

Phoenix is going nowhere and I think we could pry him away if he knew we were interested.

BGMaverick9 · 01-12-2011, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CATCH-17

I'll throw out another name.

Steve Nash.

Phoenix is going nowhere and I think we could pry him away if he knew we were interested.

Did you listen to Ben and Skin today because that's who Skin threw out today.

It's part of the MMB breakdown that's broken up into two parts that will start to come out tomorrow.

CATCH-17 · 01-12-2011, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Did you listen to Ben and Skin today because that's who Skin threw out today.

It's part of the MMB breakdown that's broken up into two parts that will start to come out tomorrow.

No I didnt but I just figure he would want to go to a Dallas, Miami, or New York if he could.

What's an MMB report?

BGMaverick9 · 01-12-2011, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CATCH-17

No I didnt but I just figure he would want to go to a Dallas, Miami, or New York if he could.

What's an MMB report?

it's just the site I write for, Mavs Moneyball

Nash is more likely to go to NY or Dallas before Miami.

CATCH-17 · 01-12-2011, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

it's just the site I write for, Mavs Moneyball

Nash is more likely to go to NY or Dallas before Miami.

Would you trade JET and Caron for Nash?

We could possibly get Caron back too keep in mind. I would imagine Roddy will make us forget JET soon too.

BGMaverick9 · 01-12-2011, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CATCH-17

Would you trade JET and Caron for Nash?

We could possibly get Caron back too keep in mind. I would imagine Roddy will make us forget JET soon too.

It really doesn't matter what the Mavs offer at this point, the Suns will not accept offers. The only way they will open the Nash-Market is if Nash says he wants out.

Kidd Karma · 01-12-2011, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CATCH-17

Would you trade JET and Caron for Nash?

We could possibly get Caron back too keep in mind. I would imagine Roddy will make us forget JET soon too.

Caron-Nash works straight up. It's a money deal for PHX. They love saving their cash. Send them a 2nd rounder and cash to seal the deal. I can't see them wanting Jets' contract.

mavs777 · 01-12-2011, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Are you serious?

Yes he had a really good 2 week stretch but other than that he has been awful

deamon · 01-12-2011, 03:47 PM

Nash can't play defense.

Usually Lurkin · 01-12-2011, 04:05 PM

don't we have a whole forum designed exactly for the fantasy trade speculation that this thread has become?

CadBane · 01-12-2011, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Are you serious?

Apparently SMC is under the impression that a PG shooting 39% from the field, 20% from three averaging 1.5 turnovers per game with a -12.2 on/off court is a good player.

SMC0007 · 01-12-2011, 05:11 PM

ugh..

CadBane · 01-12-2011, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

ugh..

Cogent retort, as always.

Luc · 01-12-2011, 05:39 PM

Some of this trades in this thread are unbelievable.

Let's do this one
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=47mo46t

They get an experienced center blablabla

DirkFTW · 01-12-2011, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I like you Cad!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Apparently SMC is under the impression that a PG shooting 39% from the field, 20% from three averaging 1.5 turnovers per game with a -12.2 on/off court is a good player.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

ugh..

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Cogent retort, as always.