Dallas Mavericks Offseason Thread

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Forget Bosh. If Toronto do a trade to get some value back they just have to call GS. Warriors do something like Ellis+Randolph+maybe Turias in a heartbeat.

Its so much better than anything we have to offer and the Warriors still have:

xy
Maggette
Jax
Bosh
Biedrins
(Craw, Wright, Azu)

Agreed. Other teams can trump us for Bosh, IF he's even available. The FO needs to remember, when trying to make the trade for Shaq, we're bidding against ourselves!!! in all likelihood. Don't make the same mistake as w/ Kidd. No picks. Straight salary relief. If there is a Marcus Camby out there to be gotten for nothing, we need to be all over that. If Pho. wants too much for Shaq see what it takes to get Kaman. We hold the upper hand. approx 20 mil in savings for some team if they're over the cap.

[sike]

Camby, Kaman, or Shaq...in that order, all things being equal.

[grndmstr_c]

Sikey, Kaman ahead of Shaq because of prospective longevity, because you just think he's better, or because you like his ability to run the floor?

FWIW (probably not much), Stein's latest on ESPN states that Sheed has apparently expressed some interest in Dallas and SA as free agent destinations.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Sikey, Kaman ahead of Shaq because of prospective longevity, because you just think he's better, or because you like his ability to run the floor?

FWIW (probably not much), Stein's latest on ESPN states that Sheed has apparently expressed some interest in Dallas and SA as free agent destinations.

For me, it's all of the above. What we really need is some helpside defense. In that regard, Camby is the best guy we can get. I know Kaman isn't known for his defense, but he's surely a better helpside defender than Shaq.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Shaq, Kaman, Camby, Sheed in that order of who the Mavs should pursue big man wise.

[dalmations202]

I vote Sheed, Camby, Kaman, Shaq in that order.

Sheed can defend, has attitude, and has range --- adds a new dimension to the offense.
Camby can defend everything, and has enough inside game to keep teams honest.
Kaman is younger and would add some longevity.
Shaq can dominate at times, and always demands defenses play him, but has slowed too much on defense, and can't hit his free throws.

Plus Sheed probably won't cost much more than $8M where Shaq runs $20M.

Also, I don't want to see Sheed lined up beside Duncan, which is where I am guessing he ends up, IF it isn't in Dallas.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Shaq, Kaman, Camby, Sheed in that order of who the Mavs should pursue big man wise.

Camby >>> Shaq

[LSMF]

Getting Camby isn't a bad idea imo. But honestly - I just want a friggin post presence that can catch the ball and dunk!

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by longsufferingmavsfan

Getting Camby isn't a bad idea imo. But honestly - I just want a friggin post presence that can catch the ball and dunk!

Offensively speaking, Kaman is definitely the best option. Defensively, Camby is by far and away the best option. Both of them are injury prone, so you're taking a risk either way. I'd probably go with Kaman first, but either one would make me happy.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Offensively speaking, Kaman is definitely the best option. Defensively, Camby is by far and away the best option. Both of them are injury prone, so you're taking a risk either way. I'd probably go with Kaman first, but either one would make me happy.

Tie-breaker:

Marcus Camby - 03/22/74

Chris Kaman - 04/28/82



(unless we're looking for a retirement home roommate for Jason Kidd...)

[grndmstr_c]

Camby, then Shaq, the Captain Kaveman, then Chandler, then Sheed.

That's all without taking into account the cost. For example, if Sheed could be had for the MLE, or Chandler could be had in a salary dump, that'd obviously be a bonus. If Shaq cost anything more than Damp/Stack I'd consider that too much.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Tie-breaker:

Marcus Camby - 03/22/74

Chris Kaman - 04/28/82



(unless we're looking for a retirement home roommate for Jason Kidd...)

In principle I agree, but remember that the idea is to win a championship within the next 2-3 years. With that kind of time limit, age isn't nearly as much of a factor.

[Underdog]

Boy, I'd love to nab any of the centers we're talking about in this thread - they're all better than Damp:


Dampier - 5.7 PPG / 7.1 RPG / 1.0 APG / 63% FT / 1.2 BPG / 0.3 SPG / 23 MPG

Shaq - 17.8 PPG / 8.4 RPG / 1.7 APG / 60% FT / 1.7 BPG / 0.6 SPG / 30 MPG
Sheed - 12.0 PPG / 7.4 RPG / 1.4 APG / 77% FT / 1.3 BPG / 0.9 SPG / 32 MPG
Kaman - 12.0 PPG / 8.0 RPG / 1.5 APG / 69% FT / 1.5 BPG / 0.6 SPG / 30 MPG
Chandler - 8.8 PPG / 8.7 RPG / 0.5 APG / 58% FT / 1.2 BPG / 0.3 SPG / 32 MPG
Camby - 10.3 PPG / 11.1 RPG / 2.0 APG / 73% FT / 2.1 BPG / 0.8 SPG / 31 MPG



(didn't include FG% or 3P% due to varying styles of play...)

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Boy, I'd love to nab any of the centers we're talking about in this thread - they're all better than Damp:


Dampier - 5.7 PPG / 7.1 RPG / 1.0 APG / 63% FT / 1.2 BPG / 0.3 SPG / 23 MPG

Chandler - 8.8 PPG / 8.7 RPG / 0.5 APG / 58% FT / 1.2 BPG / 0.3 SPG / 32 MPG
Camby - 10.3 PPG / 11.1 RPG / 2.0 APG / 73% FT / 2.1 BPG / 0.8 SPG / 31 MPG
Sheed - 12.0 PPG / 7.4 RPG / 1.4 APG / 77% FT / 1.3 BPG / 0.9 SPG / 32 MPG
Kaman - 12.0 PPG / 8.0 RPG / 1.5 APG / 69% FT / 1.5 BPG / 0.6 SPG / 30 MPG
Shaq - 17.8 PPG / 8.4 RPG / 1.7 APG / 60% FT / 1.7 BPG / 0.6 SPG / 30 MPG

Better, but definitely to varying degrees. Remember, we really need someone who can score in the post. Chandler has no more offensive skills than Damp does, and Sheed is MUCH more effective on the perimeter.

Of all these guys, Sheed and Chandler are easily the least appealing to me.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Better, but definitely to varying degrees. Remember, we really need someone who can score in the post. Chandler has no more offensive skills than Damp does, and Sheed is MUCH more effective on the perimeter.

Of all these guys, Sheed and Chandler are easily the least appealing to me.

Yeah, I'm not really too high on Sheed either (although he's better than Damp)... The idea is that he can be had for the MLE, but I think he'll go for more unless it's with a sure-shot contender... Not that I wouldn't pull the trigger if we could get him at that price, but I'd be hesitant to offer much more considering that he doesn't bring the post threat Dirk needs (and it's all about becoming contenders again, not just getting better...)

I wouldn't give up much more for Chandler at this point either... Sure, he'd be an improvement over Damp, but you kinda have to wonder about a guy not being able to pass a physical after being traded... Plus, I'm starting to think his 07-08 season was fool's gold - this season seemed like it might be the beginning of his decline...

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I wouldn't give up much more for Chandler at this point either... Sure, he'd be an improvement over Damp, but you kinda have to wonder about a guy not being able to pass a physical after being traded... Plus, I'm starting to think his 07-08 season was fool's gold - this season seemed like it might be the beginning of his decline...

Chandler is basically a much faster and more athletic Damp, and that's pretty much all he's ever been. He runs the floor like a gazelle and rebounds at a really good rate. His numbers were a bit inflated last year because the Hornets play at a pretty fast pace, and Paul is so effective at running the pick and roll.

If the Mavs pick him up, we'd be able to run the floor a bit better, and our helpside defense improves drastically, but that's about it. Man-to-man, Damp is easily a better defender. Offensively, they're about the same.

[tcat075]

I think we should trade Devean George for Dwight Howard, straight up. Hell, Orlando should probably through in the Turkoglu guy, or maybe Courtney Lee. After all, George actually HAS rings. Does Dwight Howard? I don't think so...

I think that Howard guy is an improvement over Dampier. He gives us a post presence, and some pretty nice interior defense.

I mean, seriously. I can't believe anyone hasn't mentioned him yet!

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by tcat075

I think we should trade Devean George for Dwight Howard, straight up. Hell, Orlando should probably through in the Turkoglu guy, or maybe Courtney Lee. After all, George actually HAS rings. Does Dwight Howard? I don't think so...

I think that Howard guy is an improvement over Dampier. He gives us a post presence, and some pretty nice interior defense.

I mean, seriously. I can't believe anyone hasn't mentioned him yet!

Yeah, the difference between Howard and everyone else we're discussing is that everyone else should actually be available this summer...

(I mean, I know you're kidding and all, but this conversation isn't all that far-fetched... Camby and Kaman are on the same team so one of them has to go, Shaq is on his way out of Phoenix, Sheed is a free agent, and New Orleans already tried to trade Chandler once so no doubt they'll try again...)

[DirkFTW]

We just need to inject Hollins with horse steroids. Who cares about a few extra tildes if the man becomes a force of nature?

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by DirkFTW

We just need to inject Hollins with horse steroids. Who cares about a few extra tildes if the man becomes a force of nature?

Putting on muscle doesn't give you offensive skills. I like Hollins quite a bit, but he'll never be much more than what he is now.

[tcat075]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Yeah, the difference between Howard and everyone else we're discussing is that everyone else should actually be available this summer...

(I mean, I know you're kidding and all, but this conversation isn't all that far-fetched... Camby and Kaman are on the same team so one of them has to go, Shaq is on his way out of Phoenix, Sheed is a free agent, and New Orleans already tried to trade Chandler once so no doubt they'll try again...)

Oh, I know. I feel sure that of the 5 we've been discussing, at least 2 will have new homes next year. Most likely 3.

[tcat075]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Putting on muscle doesn't give you offensive skills. I like Hollins quite a bit, but he'll never be much more than what he is now.

I think he still has a reasonable ceiling before he reaches his potential. His potential will never be a post threat, by any means, but he has quite enough potential to evolve in a Tyson Chandler or Chris Anderson type player. Great at blocking shots and throwing down dunks. And if that's all he can be, that's still pretty dang good.

[ghazi]

Emeka Okafor!

[tcat075]

Originally Posted by DirkFTW

We just need to inject Hollins with horse steroids. Who cares about a few extra tildes if the man becomes a force of nature?

Steroids horses use? So they look like this?

[monty55555]

The Dallas Mavericks, another prominent entity frequently linked to the expected bonanza in 2010, actually figure to be in the news a lot during the coming offseason.

That's because Mavs owner Mark Cuban thinks he has a better shot at getting his team back into the West's elite if it can add to its current core -- after Dallas became the first team in league history to win 50 games after losing seven of its first nine -- as opposed to starting the teardown so many outsiders are calling for.

Adding to the core, of course, means first making sure that in-house free agents Jason Kidd and Brandon Bass don't leave. Those two probably rank as Dirk Nowitzki's two closest friends on the roster, but folks in the organization are openly concerned about finding a way to re-sign Kidd, who is determined to hold out for a multiyear deal.

"I'm sure," Nowitzki says, "all the good teams want him."

It initially seemed as though Kobe Bryant's Los Angeles Lakers and/or LeBron James' Cleveland Cavaliers were the only suitors for Dallas to worry about, given their status as championship contenders and Kidd's ongoing pursuit of an NBA ring. But I've been advised that Portland -- with a decent amount of cap space to burn and its interest in veteran floor leadership established above when we got into Nash -- has to be on the list of potential Kidd suitors as well. New York is another team he'd likely consider. New York is another team that he'd likely consider if the Knicks show interest, purely because of his comfort level with Knicks coach Mike D'Antoni and familiarity with the area after his time with New Jersey.

The Mavs, though, can outbid anyone for the 36-year-old, who quietly had a much better season than advertised and who figures to have a far bigger impact if he is surrounded by at least three consistent producers. With Josh Howard plagued by ankle trouble all season, Dallas had only two of those: Nowitzki and Sixth Man Award winner Jason Terry. And that number was down to one in the Mavs' second-round series with Denver, when the Nuggets' length and aggressive trapping on pick-and-rolls smothered Terry.

The combination of Nowitzki's rise to an MVP level, its successful scramble to acquire Terry and the presence of Devin Harris enabled Dallas to weather Nash's free-agent departure in the summer of 2004. Kidd's exiting in July, with Nowitzki soon to be 31 and a supporting cast no longer feared in the new West, would probably force Dallas to launch that teardown, since all Cuban would have left from the Harris trade then would be Antoine Wright and the memories of a first-round win over the Manu Ginobili-less San Antonio Spurs.

"If we lose him now, it'll be tough," Nowitzki said last week after the Mavs were ousted by Denver in five games.

"Kidd and myself, I think we're pretty tight. ... He knows how I feel about him and he knows we would love to keep him here."

At least one club insider, for what it's worth, says he thinks Kidd will either stay in Dallas -- where he's genuinely comfortable as Nowitzki's sidekick and likes the idea of finishing his career with the team that drafted him -- or work with the Mavs on a sign-and-trade as opposed to just bolting without compensation.

Apart from the Mavs he wants to re-sign, Cuban continues to say that he's prepared to be on the short list of owners willing to take on long-term salary commitments in the trade market, knowing that waiting for the summer of 2010 -- with no guarantee that Dallas would have any shot at a difference-making free agent -- would likely only burn another season of Nowitzki's prime.

And Dallas does have three fairly significant trade chips to make a trade splash with between now and October for one more run with the current group. Jerry Stackhouse is entering the final year of his contract at $7 million, but only $2 million is guaranteed if Stackhouse is traded and let go by his new team before Aug. 10. Erick Dampier is essentially entering the final year of his deal, at $12.1 million, because he has roughly zero shot to log the 2,100 minutes required in 2009-10 to make his $13 million salary in 2010-11 guaranteed. Then there's Howard, who ranks as another expiring contract because his $11.8 million salary in 2010-11 is a team option.

"The plan is to be opportunistic ... and see what happens financially with all these teams," Cuban said, hoping that the global economic crunch will lead to more giveaways of high-salaried talent, as seen over the past year-plus when the likes of Pau Gasol and Marcus Camby were sold off almost purely to create financial flexibility.

The problem? The Mavs' list of needs is long even if Kidd and Bass are back. More perimeter shooting, more speed, more dependable length and strength at the rim, someone besides Nowitzki to create his own shot and/or slash ... Dallas could use all of that.

"We would love to get some athleticism around Kidd so he can actually throw some lobs on the break and stuff like that," Nowitzki said.

Cuban's ambitious target, in his words, is a "young perennial All-Star." That probably translates to pressing Toronto about its willingness to part with Dallas native Chris Bosh, but since the Raps continue to say they have no interest in moving Bosh, I could see the Mavs' sniffing around Atlanta to see if Josh Smith will be made available. Vince Carter, Richard Jefferson and Michael Redd are all likely to be available, but the Mavs know they need to get younger.

From the veterans' committee, as stated here previously, Rasheed Wallace is said to have interest in both Dallas and San Antonio as a free-agent destination.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/column...Chatter-090518

[BGMaverick9]

I don't see how guys are wanting a scoring presence in the low post but still have Camby as the first option. I guess I really don't buy Camby as a scorer in the post.

Shaq is the best fit if we can get the price right.
If not then its Kaman, then it gets kind of cluttered between Camby, Chandler and Sheed and etc.

I don't think anyone outside of Shaq will command a double team in the post so one thing that sticks out is Kaman and Dirk already have somewhat of a idea of how they'd work off of each other based off the Olympics. I think that goes a long way in already being able to hit the ground running and have a connection on the court.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I don't see how guys are wanting a scoring presence in the low post but still have Camby as the first option. I guess I really don't buy Camby as a scorer in the post.

Shaq is the best fit if we can get the price right.
If not then its Kaman, then it gets kind of cluttered between Camby, Chandler and Sheed and etc.

I don't think anyone outside of Shaq will command a double team in the post so one thing that sticks out is Kaman and Dirk already have somewhat of a idea of how they'd work off of each other based off the Olympics. I think that goes a long way in already being able to hit the ground running and have a connection on the court.

Camby is definitely not a low-post scorer. He does have some offensive game though, primarily mid-range. What makes Camby appealing is that he's flat-out one of the best defensive big men in the game. Your defense improves markedly if you get him.

For the record Kaman is my first choice because he plays pretty well on both ends. Shaq is probably the best option offensively, but he's just awful defending the pick and roll.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Camby is definitely not a low-post scorer. He does have some offensive game though, primarily mid-range. What makes Camby appealing is that he's flat-out one of the best defensive big men in the game. Your defense improves markedly if you get him.

For the record Kaman is my first choice because he plays pretty well on both ends. Shaq is probably the best option offensively, but he's just awful defending the pick and roll.

Yeah, for the most part I just saw Camby as a jump shooter in the 12-15 foot range. It sounds like a Bosh situation, it just doesn't do a lot more for our offense. I clearly see the upside on defense with him. With Shaq, it doesn't make our defense any better but I think we're going to be a lot more efficient on offense.

I know Kaman does a lot of his work in the paint and probably would rather bang around in the post. If Shaq isn't going to work out, we've gotta make a big push at Kaman.

[grndmstr_c]

I'm less concerned about getting a guy with a post game than I am with getting someone who's going to be able to contribute on both ends of the court. Camby may not have much of a post game, but he'd contribute on the break, and in the half-court he can convert if he gets the ball in space at least out to 15 feet. Just having that, and not even counting the fact that the guy is truly first rate on the defensive end, would be a big help.

[BGMaverick9]

It would also seem like Kaman would be the guy the Clippers would want to get rid of first, simply for contracts. Also they might be able to get a little more for him because he can be a factor on both sides of the court. They can easily let Camby roll off after this year but Kaman still has 2 years left on a deal after this coming season, that would give a lot more relief to them in the future.

[Thespiralgoeson]

On a relatively unrelated note, how do we ever know what to expect from the clippers? It seems like they're always in cost-cutting mode, but then they go and trade for Camby and Baron Davis.

[sefant77]

I prefer Kaman over Shaq.

1) We have a center for the next 3 years and not just one year
2) He is younger
3) He is a better mix of defense and offense
4) He wont eat up both trade pieces (Damp+Stack) like Shaq
5) Shaqs season was way overrated

Camby and Sheed are mediocre trades. What i saw and heard from Sheed this season was pretty bad. Camby is kind of overrated too.

I hope we run for Kaman (Spurs will do too). I think for Camby is Stack enough and Sterling can save millions.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by sefant77

I prefer Kaman over Shaq.

1) We have a center for the next 3 years and not just one year
2) He is younger
3) He is a better mix of defense and offense
4) He wont eat up both trade pieces (Damp+Stack) like Shaq
5) Shaqs season was way overrated

Camby and Sheed are mediocre trades. What i saw and heard from Sheed this season was pretty bad. Camby is kind of overrated too.

I hope we run for Kaman (Spurs will do too). I think for Camby is Stack enough and Sterling can save millions.

I agree with most of what you're saying, but you are way off base about Camby. He is flat out one of the best defensive players in the league.

[badfish22]

I don't know much about the suns current situation..but what would be our chances of getting amare stoudemire w/o giving away Dirk?

If we could get him I think it would be worth the injury risk.

[dude1394]

Either one would really be a pretty significant upgrade. Kaman however is 7 years younger in the league and much heavier than kamby. He's not been any less durable than kamby either it appears.

[mavs777]

Camby is 30x worse than Bosh on offense have you watched bball the last 5 years? Bosh is athletic though he does shoot some jumpers so you wonder how he would mesh with Dirk, but Shaq would be first choice Bosh #2

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by mavs777

Camby is 30x worse than Bosh on offense have you watched bball the last 5 years? Bosh is athletic though he does shoot some jumpers so you wonder how he would mesh with Dirk, but Shaq would be first choice Bosh #2

I don't remember seeing anyone compare Camby and Bosh, much less intimate that Camby was on the same level as Bosh offensively.

[BGMaverick9]

I guess my next question for Kaman is:
Josh Howard - would you deal him for Kaman?

I think SF is going to be a position they're going to look to fill because they might not be favoring Thorton as much as they did at the start of last season. They want to keep him because he's still really young but a way to improve their team would add depth to the swing position and move Thorton to the bench to keep learning. They'll desperately try to unload Baron but I don't see many takers. Golden State is probably crazy enough to do it, but the list is small for Baron.

We've talked about the idea of Josh for Kaman before and it seemed pretty split.
Considering our assets, would you do it?

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Yeah, for the most part I just saw Camby as a jump shooter in the 12-15 foot range. It sounds like a Bosh situation, it just doesn't do a lot more for our offense. I clearly see the upside on defense with him. With Shaq, it doesn't make our defense any better but I think we're going to be a lot more efficient on offense.

I know Kaman does a lot of his work in the paint and probably would rather bang around in the post. If Shaq isn't going to work out, we've gotta make a big push at Kaman.

this is stupid

[mavs777]

Kaman's contract?