06-29-2022, 05:15 PM
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#561
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Diamond Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,918
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky
I don't get what the motivation for the Knicks giving us value would be?
Why would the Knicks give us talent/picks for a guy they could just sign for free?
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If you?re the Mavs and you know JB wants to go. Would you have taken Burks/Noel and a 2nd? 2 2nds like Detroit got? Absolutely I would. Honestly I?d prob do it with no picks attached because I think both those players are rotation guys. Kinda seems like the Knicks weren?t interested in engaging with us for a SnT. Maybe a Cuban said we don?t want your trash. Who knows
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06-29-2022, 05:17 PM
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#562
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 43,084
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It's strange to me to be bitching about things when they haven't even become official.
We don't know what will happen when free agency begins. For all we know there is a sign and trade. Or the Knicks revoke their offer now that Murray is off the table. Or they decide to pivot to Beal. We don't know.
All I know is we could not have received Noel/Burks. It is illegal. It only worked with the Pistons because they were under the cap. BYC rules would have applied because Brunson had full bird rights and got a raise over 20% of previous salary.
Brunson would count for 25million for the Knicks but only 12.5million for us and since we're over the cap, we'd need to match that 12.5mill.
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06-29-2022, 05:24 PM
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#563
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Guru
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Denton, TX
Posts: 10,495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
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lmao, that would by the ultimate Knicks offseason if the Heat ended up getting him.
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06-29-2022, 05:24 PM
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#564
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 43,084
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BPo001
If you?re the Mavs and you know JB wants to go. Would you have taken Burks/Noel and a 2nd? 2 2nds like Detroit got? Absolutely I would. Honestly I?d prob do it with no picks attached because I think both those players are rotation guys. Kinda seems like the Knicks weren?t interested in engaging with us for a SnT. Maybe a Cuban said we don?t want your trash. Who knows
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We could not have gotten Burks/Noel because of BYC.
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06-29-2022, 05:29 PM
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#565
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Guru
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Denton, TX
Posts: 10,495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky
It's strange to me to be bitching about things when they haven't even become official.
We don't know what will happen when free agency begins. For all we know there is a sign and trade. Or the Knicks revoke their offer now that Murray is off the table. Or they decide to pivot to Beal. We don't know.
All I know is we could not have received Noel/Burks. It is illegal. It only worked with the Pistons because they were under the cap. BYC rules would have applied because Brunson had full bird rights and got a raise over 20% of previous salary.
Brunson would count for 25million for the Knicks but only 12.5million for us and since we're over the cap, we'd need to match that 12.5mill.
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I don't pretend know all the complexities of how sign-and-trades work, but I just don't buy that there wasn't a deal to made early on. The Knicks had to move heaven and earth to get Brunson. They built their entire offseason around him- at least to this point. Common sense tells me that the Mavs could have worked something out if they wanted to given how many hoops the Knicks had to jump through.
As for bitching about things before they're official. I mean, fine I guess. But when Woj, Stein, Lowe, Cato, and McMahon are all saying that Brunson to the Knicks is all but a done deal, I tend to believe that.
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06-29-2022, 05:34 PM
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#566
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson
I don't pretend know all the complexities of how sign-and-trades work, but I just don't buy that there wasn't a deal to made early on. The Knicks had to move heaven and earth to get Brunson. They built their entire offseason around him- at least to this point. Common sense tells me that the Mavs could have worked something out if they wanted to given how many hoops the Knicks had to jump through.
As for bitching about things before they're official. I mean, fine I guess. But when Woj, Stein, Lowe, Cato, and McMahon are all saying that Brunson to the Knicks is all but a done deal, I tend to believe that.
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I know, and he is still 95% going there, but I swear to god the Heat always pull this crap out of a hat. The lure of playing in Miami is just too much for too many players to pass up.
And hell, if we work out a S&T that gets us assets back. Stranger things have happened.
I won't give up til the ink is dry!!!
__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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06-29-2022, 05:37 PM
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#567
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Guru
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Denton, TX
Posts: 10,495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
I know, and he is still 95% going there, but I swear to god the Heat always pull this crap out of a hat. The lure of playing in Miami is just too much for too many players to pass up.
And hell, if we work out a S&T that gets us assets back. Stranger things have happened.
I won't give up til the ink is dry!!!
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To yours and EL's point about it not being official- Stein just tweeted this out-
"Mavericks owner Mark Cuban is scheduled to be joined by top team executives Nico Harrison and Michael Finley, Coach Jason Kidd and, as
@ChrisBHaynes
reports, maybe one or two of Jalen Brunson's teammates at Thursday's free-agent meeting in NYC with Brunson, league sources say."
So it looks like the Mavs haven't completely given up yet.
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06-29-2022, 05:38 PM
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#568
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,973
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BPo001
Crazy thought, but what if the Knicks shift their focus on a max deal to Beal and for some reason he accepts it.
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I mean, it would be the smarter play for them...
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06-29-2022, 05:38 PM
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#569
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,973
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky
Patty Mills is now an UFA
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I wanted him last year. He'd be a nice backup PG option who can hit the 3 at a nice clip...
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06-29-2022, 05:40 PM
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#570
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: state of eternal optimism
Posts: 2,856
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Brunson and agent to meet with Knicks, Mavs, and Heat....
https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-jal...220533408.html
Article mentions Mavs would need something in the ballpark of 5 years and $125M.
__________________
"Truth is incontrovertible. Panic may resent it. Ignorance may deride it. Malice may distort it. But there it is." - Winston Churchill
Last edited by purplefrog; 06-29-2022 at 05:42 PM.
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06-29-2022, 05:50 PM
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#571
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purplefrog
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I mean, that seems like a no-brainer to me, but I guess it's not my money. I can't see how the FO didn't see this coming like 22 would be enough. That's just not realistic. Maybe they can at least raise it, in total, to be more than the Knicks at say 115-120? Hope springs eternal.
__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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06-29-2022, 05:52 PM
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#572
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,250
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Ahh, looks like there is some fight after all.
Mavericks owner Mark Cuban is scheduled to be joined by top team executives Nico Harrison and Michael Finley, Coach Jason Kidd and, as
@ChrisBHaynes
reports, maybe one or two of Jalen Brunson's teammates at Thursday's free-agent meeting in NYC with Brunson, league sources say. Per Stein quoting Haynes.
__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
Last edited by DevinHarriswillstart; 06-29-2022 at 05:53 PM.
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06-29-2022, 06:10 PM
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#573
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 43,084
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
Ahh, looks like there is some fight after all.
Mavericks owner Mark Cuban is scheduled to be joined by top team executives Nico Harrison and Michael Finley, Coach Jason Kidd and, as
@ChrisBHaynes
reports, maybe one or two of Jalen Brunson's teammates at Thursday's free-agent meeting in NYC with Brunson, league sources say. Per Stein quoting Haynes.
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How many chairs?
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06-29-2022, 06:13 PM
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#574
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Diamond Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,918
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What?s up with LaVine? Haven?t heard his name at all.
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06-29-2022, 06:17 PM
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#575
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Guru
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Denton, TX
Posts: 10,495
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I'm trying to get a feel for what people other than Mavs fans think about Brunson going to the Knicks.
I just listened to a podcast with Stein, and he's saying it's a huge blunder for the Mavs and a really solid pickup for the Knicks.
Everyone else though, including the Knicks fanbase, seems to be very skeptical about paying Brunson that kind of of money. It it not a very popular move on the Knicks side.
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06-29-2022, 06:38 PM
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#576
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 225
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I ain?t begging Brunson to stay lol. He wants to go. Go. Issue is not working a sign and trade. Maybe convince him to force New York send us something back. Brunson can be replaced.
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06-29-2022, 06:43 PM
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#577
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 43,084
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Lu Dort now a UFA
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06-29-2022, 07:23 PM
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#578
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 8,841
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky
Lu Dort now a UFA
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I love his game?not sure about the fit with DFS and Bullock?..but Bullock for sure wouldn?t stop me from looking at him.
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06-29-2022, 07:25 PM
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#579
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Enemy territory (SA)
Posts: 3,309
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Dort is an RFA.
Edit: and I would bet my last pair of underwear he stays with the Thunder on a long-term deal in the $15-20m range.
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Last edited by tap2390; 06-29-2022 at 07:27 PM.
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06-29-2022, 07:25 PM
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#580
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,250
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Holy crap, forget Brunson. Get Lu Dort.
With all these FAs being available, I'm not sure I care as much about getting assets back from the Knicks anymore. Just get one of these guys.
__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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06-29-2022, 07:36 PM
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#581
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Guru
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Denton, TX
Posts: 10,495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
Holy crap, forget Brunson. Get Lu Dort.
With all these FAs being available, I'm not sure I care as much about getting assets back from the Knicks anymore. Just get one of these guys.
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That may be why the Mavs aren't willing to break the bank for Brunson- because they see a lot of cost effective, bargain bin options available.
I can understand that thinking, but losing Brunson's ball-handling will really hurt. I just really hope that Dragic still has something left in the tank.
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06-29-2022, 07:50 PM
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#582
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 942
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Harden declined his 47 million dollar deal, expecting a long term deal from the Sixers.
Hard to believe with how he played lately but i guess the Sixers have no choice but to pay him.
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06-29-2022, 07:58 PM
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#583
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson
That may be why the Mavs aren't willing to break the bank for Brunson- because they see a lot of cost effective, bargain bin options available.
I can understand that thinking, but losing Brunson's ball-handling will really hurt. I just really hope that Dragic still has something left in the tank.
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Then again, Cuban, Kidd, Finley, Nico and some Mavs players don't show up to a Brunson meeting for shits and giggles. They intend to persuade him to join.
__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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06-29-2022, 09:26 PM
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#584
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Guru
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Denton, TX
Posts: 10,495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
Then again, Cuban, Kidd, Finley, Nico and some Mavs players don't show up to a Brunson meeting for shits and giggles. They intend to persuade him to join.
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Yeah, here's hoping he is actually still open to coming back and it isn't merely a courtesy meeting.
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06-29-2022, 09:33 PM
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#585
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Enemy territory (SA)
Posts: 3,309
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I for one believe this is a charade. The Knicks did way too much to make room for JB to not have the inside track.
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06-29-2022, 09:40 PM
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#586
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tap2390
I for one believe this is a charade. The Knicks did way too much to make room for JB to not have the inside track.
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Agree - I wouldn?t meet. He ain?t ?that? player to waste time on. Give him offer if he wants go please go ahead.
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06-29-2022, 09:45 PM
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#587
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Guru
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Denton, TX
Posts: 10,495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tap2390
I for one believe this is a charade. The Knicks did way too much to make room for JB to not have the inside track.
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Inside track or no, I still think it boils down to money. The Mavs have a simple choice of either choosing to outbid the Knicks or not to. If the reports are true of their "walking away price" being 22 million a year, then it's no wonder he's probably leaving.
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06-29-2022, 10:03 PM
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#588
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,250
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I think the Dejounte Murray trade falling through for the Knicks might have given us at little more of a chance, but it does make the Knicks more desperate.
You know, I think I'm changing my mind on the money thing though. For ten years the Mavs were used as leverage to up other teams' offers. I say we stick to a lower number. Prove to us young Jalen that you actually care about winning because it's not like you still won't be making a boat load of money either way. And we don't know for sure that a big offer changes his mind anyway. Let the Knicks overpay. We can still win without you.
My wife helped bring me to this perspective because you'd be nuts to want to go join that loser franchise. (Her words).
We shouldn't have to outbid the lowly Knicks...and likely won't.
__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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06-29-2022, 10:07 PM
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#589
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 942
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If our offer is within about 2 million, it's about the same money due to state taxes. But players don't seem to think about that.
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06-29-2022, 10:19 PM
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#590
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 942
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So if the Heat get Brunson who could we poach in a sign and trade from them?
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06-29-2022, 10:29 PM
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#591
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Guru
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 11,825
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJay
If our offer is within about 2 million, it's about the same money due to state taxes. But players don't seem to think about that.
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The offer is 22m vs 27.5m.
Edit: missed the ?if?
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Last edited by Melonhead; 06-29-2022 at 10:54 PM.
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06-29-2022, 10:48 PM
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#592
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Member
Join Date: May 2018
Location: 25,000 light years from center of Milky Way Galaxy
Posts: 686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saclare
Fair enough. I call throwing that kind of money all for Brunson as throwing it away. We can agree to disagree, it's ok as it's a forum after all.
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Agree buddy.. I think this will be a lose lose.. JB will regret playing for the Knicks and we lose the potential value of JB as a trade asset 2 to 3 years from now.
Cheers
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06-29-2022, 10:54 PM
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#593
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,250
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Rumor: Mavs interested in Javale.
__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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06-29-2022, 11:10 PM
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#594
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,973
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeus
Agree buddy.. I think this will be a lose lose.. JB will regret playing for the Knicks and we lose the potential value of JB as a trade asset 2 to 3 years from now.
Cheers
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There seems to be a glimmer of hope. Brunson on a 5/125 doesn't make me blush as much as the rumored 5/150 it would take as of earlier. I just think it's all dog and pony show at this point and potentially a waste of time. But who knows, like EL said earlier, nothing is set until tomorrow afternoon/evening.
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06-29-2022, 11:34 PM
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#595
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,250
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I feel the numbers are all rumors at this point anyway. And if Miami gets in on a bidding war, then it likely won't be worth it. Knicks will give him 30 mil a year if they have to. They don't have much of a choice at this point.
__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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06-29-2022, 11:41 PM
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#596
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Guru
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Denton, TX
Posts: 10,495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
I think the Dejounte Murray trade falling through for the Knicks might have given us at little more of a chance, but it does make the Knicks more desperate.
You know, I think I'm changing my mind on the money thing though. For ten years the Mavs were used as leverage to up other teams' offers. I say we stick to a lower number. Prove to us young Jalen that you actually care about winning because it's not like you still won't be making a boat load of money either way. And we don't know for sure that a big offer changes his mind anyway. Let the Knicks overpay. We can still win without you.
My wife helped bring me to this perspective because you'd be nuts to want to go join that loser franchise. (Her words).
We shouldn't have to outbid the lowly Knicks...and likely won't.
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I dunno, I mean, I hear you, but at the same time I think it's naive to ever expect these young men to care more about winning than making money. If you want to keep your guys, you have to pay them more than the competition is offering, it's as simple as that.
The Mavs could have had him for the next several years at a fraction of the price, and they passed. It's easy to understand why he would have a chip on his shoulder about that. So he bets on himself, performs incredibly during the playoffs, elevates his game to a new level, and doubles his value. He earned his money.
Even if it's an outrageous overpay- and frankly even if he's making 27 million a year, there are far more overpaid players scattered throughout the league- I also worry about how letting him walk might hurt the perception of the Mavs franchise among players. We know that its a pretty tight knit community the players have. We know they all talk, and they have certain ideas about how franchises treat their players. For example, the Cetlics really paid a price with players for years of Danny Ainge's cutthroat and callous tactics. AD outright said he refused to go to Boston because of the way they treated Isaiah Thomas. He definitely wasn't the only player who felt that way. I think it could be a bad look for the Mavs if someone like Brunson plays his ass off, really overperforms, helps them get to the conference finals, and only to then turn around and not pony up as much money as the competition to keep him. Players might get the idea that the Mavs just don't care about their guys outside of Luka. I know Nico supposedly has really good relationships with players around the league, but actions speak louder than words.
Again though, I'm really fine letting him walk IF the Mavs can replace his production. But I feel like that's a tall order given the cap situation and lack of trade pieces.
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06-29-2022, 11:42 PM
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#597
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
I feel the numbers are all rumors at this point anyway. And if Miami gets in on a bidding war, then it likely won't be worth it. Knicks will give him 30 mil a year if they have to. They don't have much of a choice at this point.
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Good. Drive up the $$. Screw the Knicks lol
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06-30-2022, 12:41 AM
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#598
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Guru
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 11,825
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson
I dunno, I mean, I hear you, but at the same time I think it's naive to ever expect these young men to care more about winning than making money. If you want to keep your guys, you have to pay them more than the competition is offering, it's as simple as that.
The Mavs could have had him for the next several years at a fraction of the price, and they passed. It's easy to understand why he would have a chip on his shoulder about that. So he bets on himself, performs incredibly during the playoffs, elevates his game to a new level, and doubles his value. He earned his money.
Even if it's an outrageous overpay- and frankly even if he's making 27 million a year, there are far more overpaid players scattered throughout the league- I also worry about how letting him walk might hurt the perception of the Mavs franchise among players. We know that its a pretty tight knit community the players have. We know they all talk, and they have certain ideas about how franchises treat their players. For example, the Cetlics really paid a price with players for years of Danny Ainge's cutthroat and callous tactics. AD outright said he refused to go to Boston because of the way they treated Isaiah Thomas. He definitely wasn't the only player who felt that way. I think it could be a bad look for the Mavs if someone like Brunson plays his ass off, really overperforms, helps them get to the conference finals, and only to then turn around and not pony up as much money as the competition to keep him. Players might get the idea that the Mavs just don't care about their guys outside of Luka. I know Nico supposedly has really good relationships with players around the league, but actions speak louder than words.
Again though, I'm really fine letting him walk IF the Mavs can replace his production. But I feel like that's a tall order given the cap situation and lack of trade pieces.
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I think you nailed my second biggest concern. We know the Mavs have had an issue with perception around the league and guys talk. Carlisle being an overall dick to players really impacted past rosters and ability to acquire in addition to front office woes. I feel like they?re moving in the right direction to get past it in the last year. But this says they?re taking a step back.
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Last edited by Melonhead; 06-30-2022 at 12:44 AM.
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06-30-2022, 07:45 AM
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#599
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Member
Join Date: May 2018
Location: 25,000 light years from center of Milky Way Galaxy
Posts: 686
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How are you guys going to be tracking the FA developments? Starting this afternoon I will be on twitter non stop refreshing all the big names e.g. Woj, Shams et al.. Always a fun 12 hours or so.. Stay tuned for 5 pm Central.
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06-30-2022, 07:53 AM
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#600
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Diamond Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,918
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeus
How are you guys going to be tracking the FA developments? Starting this afternoon I will be on twitter non stop refreshing all the big names e.g. Woj, Shams et al.. Always a fun 12 hours or so.. Stay tuned for 5 pm Central.
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I?m not on twitter, so I?ll probably check Hoopshype a few times before bed. I can get caught up in the morning. Hopefully people post up here too as news breaks.
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