LAD - Life After Deron - Page 15 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

howdoesmydirktaste · 07-04-2012, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBlueVan

Brian Geltzeiler ‏ @ hoopscritic
Nash ended up getting slightly more money from the Lakers than what the Knicks were able to offer. Dallas wouldn't offer more than 1 year.

Our FO has been offerring a lot of 1-year contracts lately. NBA players aren't looking for those. Sorry.

Cerberus · 07-04-2012, 09:38 PM

We're offering one year contracts again? gotta be kidding me...

grndmstr_c · 07-04-2012, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBlueVan

Brian Geltzeiler ‏ @ hoopscritic
Nash ended up getting slightly more money from the Lakers than what the Knicks were able to offer. Dallas wouldn't offer more than 1 year.

That is extremely disappointing.

Ninkobei · 07-04-2012, 09:39 PM

Sadly the smartest move for the Mavs may be to start building through the draft. It's unfortunate they don't already have a few years of young guys built up. I am prepared for a rough few years, but they should be years of growth and development.

Alternatively they can throw too much money at players who aren't worth it and be in financial trouble in a few years.

It's unfortunate I agree, but it had to happen eventually. And hey, some fresh home-grown faces might be just what this town needs.

Bayliss · 07-04-2012, 09:39 PM

Exactly. The Mavs offer Nash a one year deal? Nash wanted to be with a contender, I get that. He wanted to be close to his family. I get that. But why even make an offer if it for one year?

No good player is going to sign for 1 **f*cking** year. And that may be **gdt emotion** coming on right now but it is the truth.

Mavs are setting themselves up for failure.

Bayliss · 07-04-2012, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Stay classy.

Funny, you start it and then say that. Hyprocrisy much?

TheBlueVan · 07-04-2012, 09:42 PM

this is hilariously stupid. everyone is turning, particularly local media, on this clusterf--- of an offseason.

Underdog · 07-04-2012, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Okay, speaking about Dragic specifically, and my take on him personally, I think I've settled on 4/40 guaranteed being too much. On a contract comparable to Steve's, or maybe something with a team out after year two and a player out after year three (if that's even possible), I probably bite. Dallas will need assets to rebuild, and I think the odds are pretty good that Dragic turns out to be at least an acceptable asset with that kind of contract.

Yeah, but there's nobody better out there... You can overpay Dragic (maybe Lin) or wait until Dirk is no longer a Maverick to find a suitable player to run this team. Our hands are tied - the point guard market is sh!t right now. Paying a premium on our next starting PG was the risk we faced if we struck out on both Deron AND Nash... Well, we struck out. One more strike and we're out! (<-- I imagined the principal from 'Back to the Future' barking that line...)

conjurer · 07-04-2012, 09:43 PM

I'm interested in RC's take on this development ...

howdoesmydirktaste · 07-04-2012, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Exactly. The Mavs offer Nash a one year deal? Nash wanted to be with a contender, I get that. He wanted to be close to his family. I get that. But why even make an offer if it for one year?

No good player is going to sign for 1 **f*cking** year. And that may be **gdt emotion** coming on right now but it is the truth.

Mavs are setting themselves up for failure.

Couldn't agree more. I think the front office is going to tank it and we are heading for the lottery. What other explanation could there be?

Jason Kidd is not Jason Kidd anymore. Delonte West can play some D but he's a third-tier PG at best.

We are either truly tanking it or the front office is setting up something big. Have their been any quotes from Cuban or Donnie on any of this?

WTF man! Quit ruining my team man! (In the voice of The Dude)

Bayliss · 07-04-2012, 09:45 PM

Quote:

we struck out on both Deron AND Nash..

Mavs didn't strike out on Nash. They didn't even swing for Nash. If they didn't want him, fine. But when you get up to the plate, take your cuts.... Mavsw didn't even do that.

vinylstar · 07-04-2012, 09:45 PM

Is Cuban overestimating the limits, restrictions, and penalties in the new CBA? I'm genuinely wondering this because no matter how much I learn about the CBA there always seems to be plenty I don't know about/understand.

I'm all for not giving bloated, future crippling contracts, and Cuban has given plenty, but has the pendulum swung too far the other way?

Underdog · 07-04-2012, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conjurer

I'm interested in RC's take on this development ...

I'm interested in both RC and Dirk's opinions on free agency as a whole...

howdoesmydirktaste · 07-04-2012, 09:48 PM

While everyone is concerned about overpaying, Brooklyn took the overpaid contract of Joe Johnson and all it landed them was Deron Williams.

grndmstr_c · 07-04-2012, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Yeah, but there's nobody better out there... You can overpay Dragic (maybe Lin) or wait until Dirk is no longer a Maverick to find a suitable player to run this team. Our hands are tied - the point guard market is sh!t right now. Paying a premium on our next starting PG was the risk we faced if we struck out on both Deron AND Nash... Well, we struck out. One more strike and we're out! (I imagined the principal from Back to the Future when I typed that line...)

Did they even strike out on Nash, though? If they weren't willing to go more than a year, that's more like a bunt followed by a leisurely stroll down the first base line. They're clearly not desperate for a point guard, and either they've been throwing out a ton of misinformation on Dragic or (I guess) they're largely content to go into next season with a low-salary guy at the point, and have been so since before they even made their pitch to Deron.

rabbitproof · 07-04-2012, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Why even pursue Nash? Why not just move on to Plan C and pretend like it's Plan B so you don't have to overpay Plan C so much?

Free agency virgins...

Out of rep but this made me laugh. FAV is right.

Everybody is making permies with benies offers and we're hitting up the same folks for contracting work.

jthig32 · 07-04-2012, 10:08 PM

"There's nobody better out there" is not a valid argument for a good front office. It's just not. The Mavs are going to suck for two years before they throw bad money after players they don't feel are difference makers.

Look, this sucks. This really, really sucks. I'm not trying to say it doesn't. But being mediocre with no prayer of being better sucks worse. You're either a contender or you sucks, that's the mantra, and it applies here.

Maybe we have to endure a lottery year, even with Dirk. Maybe it's come to that. I'd rather do that than pay long term money for players that won't make us relevant.

(Same disclaimer as GMC, not saying Dragic isn't a difference maker, just speaking about the concept in general)

jthig32 · 07-04-2012, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinylstar

Is Cuban overestimating the limits, restrictions, and penalties in the new CBA? I'm genuinely wondering this because no matter how much I learn about the CBA there always seems to be plenty I don't know about/understand.

I'm all for not giving bloated, future crippling contracts, and Cuban has given plenty, but has the pendulum swung too far the other way?

I think Cuban and Donnie might have overestimated how cautious other teams would be.

However, I don't think it would have changed much in their approach. They have to get a superstar, and they can't keep paying luxury tax like they have been. This new CBA might not make that much of a difference to a majority of teams, but it's a huge change for us because we can't afford the harsher tax. That's the reality.

Underdog · 07-04-2012, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Did they even strike out on Nash, though? If they weren't willing to go more than a year, that's more like a bunt followed by a leisurely stroll down the first base line. They're clearly not desperate for a point guard, and either they've been throwing out a ton of misinformation on Dragic or (I guess) they're largely content to go into next season with a low-salary guy at the point, and have been so since before they even made their pitch to Deron.

That was probably a bad metaphor on my part (sorry, I don't watch much blernsball...)

And which low-salary guys are we talking about? Kidd/Fisher? The well has run dry...

dude1394 · 07-04-2012, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBlueVan

Brian Geltzeiler ‏ @ hoopscritic
Nash ended up getting slightly more money from the Lakers than what the Knicks were able to offer. Dallas wouldn't offer more than 1 year.

Got to preserve Johnny Capspace.

howdoesmydirktaste · 07-04-2012, 10:15 PM

It wasn't even 24 hours ago that we were rumored to be on Dwight Howard's list of destinations. I wonder if we could even make it onto Josh Howard's list at this point.

Underdog · 07-04-2012, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

"There's nobody better out there" is not a valid argument for a good front office. It's just not. The Mavs are going to suck for two years before they throw bad money after players they don't feel are difference makers.

Look, this sucks. This really, really sucks. I'm not trying to say it doesn't. But being mediocre with no prayer of being better sucks worse. You're either a contender or you sucks, that's the mantra, and it applies here.

Maybe we have to endure a lottery year, even with Dirk. Maybe it's come to that. I'd rather do that than pay long term money for players that won't make us relevant.

(Same disclaimer as GMC, not saying Dragic isn't a difference maker, just speaking about the concept in general)

Personally, I'm only making the "there's nobody better out there" argument in reference to Dragic... I guess I could extend that argument to Lin, but he's projected to make a little less, which changes the complexion of the argument somewhat.

Otherwise, yeah, keep the powder dry...

dude1394 · 07-04-2012, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conjurer

I'm interested in RC's take on this development ...

Don't care? Won championship?

nowhereman · 07-04-2012, 10:18 PM

Bigger Mavs insult to Nash - 2004 or 2012?

jthig32 · 07-04-2012, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nowhereman

Bigger Mavs insult to Nash - 2004 or 2012?

2004 was not an insult.

SMC0007 · 07-04-2012, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

"There's nobody better out there" is not a valid argument for a good front office. It's just not. The Mavs are going to suck for two years before they throw bad money after players they don't feel are difference makers.

Look, this sucks. This really, really sucks. I'm not trying to say it doesn't. But being mediocre with no prayer of being better sucks worse. You're either a contender or you sucks, that's the mantra, and it applies here.

Maybe we have to endure a lottery year, even with Dirk. Maybe it's come to that. I'd rather do that than pay long term money for players that won't make us relevant.

(Same disclaimer as GMC, not saying Dragic isn't a difference maker, just speaking about the concept in general)

But most of your post kinda looks like you ARE suggesting that Dragic isn't a difference maker. I believe otherwise and I'd put the 9-10m in his account tonight if it were me.

We should not be suffering a lottery year with Dirk. If they are gonna freewheel this thing into next season, which they aren't, they probably should trade Dirk and stockpile. I find it hard to believe that MBT is going to go down quietly.

Not getting Nash was a blessing and you fellow humans need to realize that!

rabbitproof · 07-04-2012, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

"There's nobody better out there" is not a valid argument for a good front office. It's just not. The Mavs are going to suck for two years before they throw bad money after players they don't feel are difference makers.

Look, this sucks. This really, really sucks. I'm not trying to say it doesn't. But being mediocre with no prayer of being better sucks worse. You're either a contender or you sucks, that's the mantra, and it applies here.

Maybe we have to endure a lottery year, even with Dirk. Maybe it's come to that. I'd rather do that than pay long term money for players that won't make us relevant.

(Same disclaimer as GMC, not saying Dragic isn't a difference maker, just speaking about the concept in general)

At that point, if we are a lotto team, I hate to even ask because it's the hard question but why hold onto Dirk? Why not rebuild properly? Really gain cap room and get better draft picks. Dirk may not demand a trade but do we really want to Robert Sarver him? Wouldn't you ask him if he wants to go and if he does, where? These "piece of diamond in a pile of garbage" developments can't help the luster of the organization.

I can't see why Dirk wants to finish his last peak years in the lotto unless he really is satisfied with what he's accomplished already because I can't see him playing just for stats.

dude1394 · 07-04-2012, 10:22 PM

Jkiddo should play some hardball, the mas don't have crap for point guard options.

rabbitproof · 07-04-2012, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

2004 was not an insult.

2012 is also not an insult if we only offered 1 year vs 3 years.

grndmstr_c · 07-04-2012, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

That was probably a bad metaphor on my part (sorry, I don't watch much blernsball...)

And which low-salary guys are we talking about? Kidd/Fisher? The well has run dry...

Oh, it's extremely dry. I hardly see the point of even trying to put together a squad that can make the playoffs. If Kidd wants to re-sign for a year I don't see the harm in re-signing him, but the main point would be to have him available as a trade chip at the deadline in case one of the contending teams suffers an injury. I fully expect Dallas to go the budget route at this point, even as they try to make some careful selections out of the pool of 3rd/4th-tier young guys who have at least some growth potential.

SMC0007 · 07-04-2012, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Jkiddo should play some hardball, the mas don't have crap for point guard options.

Unless he wants to stay for pennies and a backup role, I'm out on Kidd.

If he is our starting PG this season, I will miss the beginning of a lot of games.

Underdog · 07-04-2012, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Oh, it's extremely dry. I hardly see the point of even trying to put together a squad that can make the playoffs. If Kidd wants to re-sign for a year I don't see the harm in re-signing him, but the main point would be to have him available as a trade chip at the deadline in case one of the contending teams suffers an injury. I fully expect Dallas to go the budget route at this point, even as they try to make some careful selections out of the pool of 3rd/4th-tier young guys who have at least some growth potential.

So we're going to be the 2007 Miami Heat, but one year removed from our championship and with an aging superstar?

Yeah, I'm not interested in that... What else do you have?

FreshJive · 07-04-2012, 10:31 PM

Offering Nash a one year contract is just baffling. They knew he wouldn't take it. It wastes everyone's time, and I have to think it hurt's the organization's reputation.

FINtastic · 07-04-2012, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I think Cuban and Donnie might have overestimated how cautious other teams would be.

However, I don't think it would have changed much in their approach. They have to get a superstar, and they can't keep paying luxury tax like they have been. This new CBA might not make that much of a difference to a majority of teams, but it's a huge change for us because we can't afford the harsher tax. That's the reality.

How do you propose they do that? They don't seem to have anything that can be considered a significant asset in a trade, they can't offer as much money as the free agent's incumbent team, and they don't have a roster brimming with talent outside Dirk. The irony of the whole stripping of the roster for cap flexibility is that it's left them a whole lot less attractive to the prize free agents that the available cap space was supposed to help us snag.

I'm not sure what the magic bullet is to overcome this, or even if it exists, but it's hard to see there current strategy being a winner. To me this all goes back to their decisions in the Summer of 2011, but it's too late to rewrite history at this point. I'm fearful that the Dirk era ends with a whimper, but I suppose it was a great run while it lasted.

jthig32 · 07-04-2012, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

At that point, if we are a lotto team, I hate to even ask because it's the hard question but why hold onto Dirk? Why not rebuild properly? Really gain cap room and get better draft picks. Dirk may not demand a trade but do we really want to Robert Sarver him? Wouldn't you ask him if he wants to go and if he does, where? These "piece of diamond in a pile of garbage" developments can't help the luster of the organization.

I can't see why Dirk wants to finish his last peak years in the lotto unless he really is satisfied with what he's accomplished already because I can't see him playing just for stats.

My preferences will always be to keep Dirk and try to rebuild, even if a year has to be completely punted. Finding a superstar is the hardest thing, you don't trade him away, ever.

I'm also not one that thinks we owe it to Dirk to trade him. Most superstars have to endure a rebuilding year or two in their career.

howdoesmydirktaste · 07-04-2012, 10:36 PM

I just can't believe how the landscape is changing in the NBA and we're missing out. Brooklyn got better. Boston got Terry. Phoenix is looking to get better. LA got friggin Nash and could possibly even wind up getting that Bynum for Howard trade. Houston and New York are looking to make upgrades. Miami could add Ray Allen.

Here we are offering one year to Nash and a tiny little contract to Kidd. We haven't re-signed Delonte. We have the Haywood contract. I honestly feel that Dirk and Marion are the only two filled roster spots that do ANYTHING for me at this point. Of course the GM in me is looking at Marion as a trade asset.

Bayliss · 07-04-2012, 10:38 PM

Fresh, pretty much. And other free agents (IMO) look at that kind of stuff. "Well they are only offering 1 year deals... why waste my time?" And then they don't even bother with the Mavs.

rabbitproof · 07-04-2012, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

My preferences will always be to keep Dirk and try to rebuild, even if a year has to be completely punted. Finding a superstar is the hardest thing, you don't trade him away, ever.

I'm also not one that thinks we owe it to Dirk to trade him. Most superstars have to endure a rebuilding year or two in their career.

I see. I thought it was a bit contradictory to the no middle ground stance but you are seeing the Mavericks as being able to pull off a one-year rebuild.

That would mean landing Paul or Dwight unless I am missing something.

BGMaverick9 · 07-04-2012, 10:41 PM

It's pretty clear to me that Dragic is a polarizing guy. You either love him or you think signing him reeks of Detroit 09.

You either ride through the storm and deal with whatever damage comes your way in hopes of what could be on the other side or you shift your course and start with your star and a piece that could work.

Underdog · 07-04-2012, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'm also not one that thinks we owe it to Dirk to trade him. Most superstars have to endure a rebuilding year or two in their career.

Yeah, but he's approaching the end of his career - the only way he's going to win another ring at this point is if we tank, then pull a '97 Spurs and draft Tim Duncan. There's not enough time to build from the ground-up, which is essentially what we'd be doing... We need EVERYTHING outside of a superstar PF and a good coach right now.