NBA Season 16-17: General Thread - Page 15 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

mac222b · 04-25-2017, 02:08 AM

Enjoying watching the Clipper ship once again sinking. One of the best parts of this post season thus far. If not THE best

BPo001 · 04-25-2017, 09:43 PM

Roberson is like 2-20 on free throws in this series. That's fucking pathetic. How can you be so bad at those? The line hasn't moved since you start playing in like 4th grade.

Underdog · 04-25-2017, 09:53 PM

EricaLubarsky · 04-25-2017, 09:57 PM

Hey the Rockets actually made it out of the first round

Westbrook took 18 threes. 18! Even Curry is shaking his head

Underdog · 04-25-2017, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Hey the Rockets actually made it out of the first round

Westbrook took 18 threes. 18! Even Curry is shaking his head

Only hit 5... Hell, both MVP candidates combined to hit 7-31 from beyond the arc. Pathetic.

EricaLubarsky · 04-25-2017, 10:27 PM

It's not about the shots you make. It's about the shots you take.

DevinHarriswillstart · 04-25-2017, 10:47 PM

Cuban may be wrong about a lot of things, but I'm starting to see his side of why Westbrook really isn't a superstar.

He certainly is no Dirk because efficiency is so important in the game of basketball when you're a top tier talent.

Underdog · 04-26-2017, 12:24 AM

Jazz put Clips on the ropes.

DevinHarriswillstart · 04-26-2017, 07:05 AM

Paul, Redick, and Crawford on the floor at the same time is a disaster defensively.

And Redick played well in this game, but he has had an awful series. Overrated player.

BPo001 · 04-26-2017, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

It's not about the shots you make. It's about the shots you take.

MavzMan · 04-26-2017, 08:05 AM

Every time someone other than Westbrook got the ball, they immediately threw it to him. It literally looked like everyone else on the team did not want to shoot because they knew they would miss. He really started jacking up crap in the 4th quarter after he was worn out. They put up a stat at the beginning of the quarter that said he was shooting 50% before he sat down to rest ... which is when Houston went from down by 5 to up by 5. He also got completely posterized by Capella trying to go for a block, so he never gave up on defense ... unlike Monta who literally ran away from Lebron like a ... well you know.

So, yeah I agree with 80% of what you guys are saying about him but holy crap OKC sucks as team. Without him, there is no doubt they would have the #1 pick in the draft. He's no Dirk, but the dude still is doing all he can to win even if it's too much. The sad thing is that he was loyal to OKC and now both him and the team are screwed for the next several years because they have almost zero hope to really improve in FA or the draft.

Much as you guys hate him, I can't stand Houston even more. OKC just start giving up on defense halfway through the fourth because if they even breathed on them, it was a foul. It's really sad that this team has one of the top MVP candidates and also coach of the year candidate.

EricaLubarsky · 04-26-2017, 08:18 AM

Refs were dirty in the Jazz game. Really tried to give it to the Clips-- but failed

MavzMan · 04-26-2017, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

RWB needs to prove he can play well with others. Sounds like he has unmatched passion to win, but it's a 5-man game and he's trying to play 1-on-5.

He's like Kobe-- he's good, but he'll never be a champion unless he has some help. He's driven teammates away and now has a reputation for being a poor teammate and hard to get along with. He absolutely needs a better supporting cast, but some of the questions about his supporting cast are about him as a teammate.

Thunder are going to have a hard time improving, too. They're over the cap next year and don't have a second rounder and only have a late first. They also don't have much in the way of trade assets. Even if they had FA money, it's also unclear if a free agent would sign there-- lots of rumors that players hate playing with RWB.

And now, teams in the middle of the pack like OKC pretty much have no hope. This is the new NBA mentality as far as free agency goes:

Peter Vecsey: Bottom Line: Chris Paul, Carmelo Anthony, Damien Lillard & Paul George have 3 ways 2 win NBA title; join forces w LeBron, Curry or Leonard.

NBA should change it's name to TTPLFAC ... Two Teams Playing For A Championship. Hopefully this changes by the time the Mavs develop players and become relevant again.

BPo001 · 04-26-2017, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavzMan

Every time someone other than Westbrook got the ball, they immediately threw it to him. It literally looked like everyone else on the team did not want to shoot because they knew they would miss. He really started jacking up crap in the 4th quarter after he was worn out. They put up a stat at the beginning of the quarter that said he was shooting 50% before he sat down to rest ... which is when Houston went from down by 5 to up by 5. He also got completely posterized by Capella trying to go for a block, so he never gave up on defense ... unlike Monta who literally ran away from Lebron like a ... well you know.

So, yeah I agree with 80% of what you guys are saying about him but holy crap OKC sucks as team. Without him, there is no doubt they would have the #1 pick in the draft. He's no Dirk, but the dude still is doing all he can to win even if it's too much. The sad thing is that he was loyal to OKC and now both him and the team are screwed for the next several years because they have almost zero hope to really improve in FA or the draft.

Much as you guys hate him, I can't stand Houston even more. OKC just start giving up on defense halfway through the fourth because if they even breathed on them, it was a foul. It's really sad that this team has one of the top MVP candidates and also coach of the year candidate.

RW gave his teammates a dirty look anytime they shot the ball in the 4th. Dudes not a team player. Until RW learns to trust his teammates he will never win anything. It's not difficult to have 47 points when you take 34 shots. Even RW wouldn't have been crazy enough to try and block Lebron's dunk. He was charging full speed down the court. Any guard in the league would have gotten out of the way. That's a simple business decision in my mind.

EricaLubarsky · 04-26-2017, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavzMan

And now, teams in the middle of the pack like OKC pretty much have no hope. This is the new NBA mentality as far as free agency goes:

Peter Vecsey: Bottom Line: Chris Paul, Carmelo Anthony, Damien Lillard & Paul George have 3 ways 2 win NBA title; join forces w LeBron, Curry or Leonard.

NBA should change it's name to TTPLFAC ... Two Teams Playing For A Championship. Hopefully this changes by the time the Mavs develop players and become relevant again.

It's not just the 3-8 seed that are having trouble

It also means a lot more teams have decided to retool and rebuild so there are more teams than ever are holding back. More teams than ever are tanking or shooting for the lottery and the draft just isn't enough to keep the league competitive. This year the talent level of the draft is supposedly good, but still only 5-10 stars in the bunch and 20+ teams needing to improve. Most years you're lucky to get 2-5 stars out of the draft. In a league with 3 winners and 27 losers, that spells doom for overall TV ratings.

Silver has an interesting dilemma now. For fans of the big three, everything is alright, but fans of the other 27 teams aren't happy either and the overall level of competitiveness in the regular season is in jeopardy.

BPo001 · 04-26-2017, 11:54 AM

Micah Adams: Russell Westbrook’s usage pct in the 1st Round (46%) was greater than Michael Jordan’s vs the Monstars (44%). – via Twitter

DevinHarriswillstart · 04-26-2017, 11:56 AM

Trust me, we all hate Houston which is exactly why we're giving Westbrook a hard time.

DevinHarriswillstart · 04-26-2017, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

It's not just the 3-8 seed that are having trouble

It also means a lot more teams have decided to retool and rebuild so there are more teams than ever are holding back. More teams than ever are tanking or shooting for the lottery and the draft just isn't enough to keep the league competitive. This year the talent level of the draft is supposedly good, but still only 5-10 stars in the bunch and 20+ teams needing to improve. Most years you're lucky to get 2-5 stars out of the draft. In a league with 3 winners and 27 losers, that spells doom for overall TV ratings.

Silver has an interesting dilemma now. For fans of the big three, everything is alright, but fans of the other 27 teams aren't happy either and the overall level of competitiveness in the regular season is in jeopardy.

All that matters are ticket sales and ratings. As long as they stay up, then it really doesn't matter about the super teams.

So will they stay strong? I think it takes an economic hit for them to go down. Super teams have been generally good for the league...so far. Casual to lesser fans who don't care which teams win are a faction that I think we're leaving out. They're the ones who will tune in to watch the big boys play.

Melonhead · 04-26-2017, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavzMan

Every time someone other than Westbrook got the ball, they immediately threw it to him. It literally looked like everyone else on the team did not want to shoot because they knew they would miss. He really started jacking up crap in the 4th quarter after he was worn out. They put up a stat at the beginning of the quarter that said he was shooting 50% before he sat down to rest ... which is when Houston went from down by 5 to up by 5. He also got completely posterized by Capella trying to go for a block, so he never gave up on defense ... unlike Monta who literally ran away from Lebron like a ... well you know.

So, yeah I agree with 80% of what you guys are saying about him but holy crap OKC sucks as team. Without him, there is no doubt they would have the #1 pick in the draft. He's no Dirk, but the dude still is doing all he can to win even if it's too much. The sad thing is that he was loyal to OKC and now both him and the team are screwed for the next several years because they have almost zero hope to really improve in FA or the draft.

Much as you guys hate him, I can't stand Houston even more. OKC just start giving up on defense halfway through the fourth because if they even breathed on them, it was a foul. It's really sad that this team has one of the top MVP candidates and also coach of the year candidate.

You have to put into context WHY his teammates are passing the ball back to him. One, they are intimidated to set something up for themselves. Two, if you dont establish some type of offensive flow where everyone is involved DURING the season, you cant expect teammates to be able to know what to do and feel comfortable in the moment of a playoff game. Absolutely Russ needs them now in the playoffs, but he does not make people around him better, and most of the time they default to Russ, because theyve done it all season. Oladipo was a solid guy coming into OKC. Numbers have plummeted playing with Russ.

I dont hate the guy. He's fun to watch. But he's a blessing and a curse. He lives in his own world on the court. Ill link a well written article on Westbrook from 2 days ago...

https://theringer.com/2017-nba-playo...r-264563760c34

EricaLubarsky · 04-26-2017, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

All that matters are ticket sales and ratings. As long as they stay up, then it really doesn't matter about the super teams.

So will they stay strong? I think it takes an economic hit for them to go down. Super teams have been generally good for the league...so far. Casual to lesser fans who don't care which teams win are a faction that I think we're leaving out. They're the ones who will tune in to watch the big boys play.

Yeah, super teams tend to bring in casual sports fans without an allegiance. Kings/Lakers were good for the league. Bulls/Suns was good for the league. Celtics/Lakers was good for the league.

It just really hurts loyal fans of the other 27-28 teams.

MavzMan · 04-26-2017, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

You have to put into context WHY his teammates are passing the ball back to him. One, they are intimidated to set something up for themselves. Two, if you dont establish some type of offensive flow where everyone is involved DURING the season, you cant expect teammates to be able to know what to do and feel comfortable in the moment of a playoff game. Absolutely Russ needs them now in the playoffs, but he does not make people around him better, and most of the time they default to Russ, because theyve done it all season. Oladipo was a solid guy coming into OKC. Numbers have plummeted playing with Russ.

I dont hate the guy. He's fun to watch. But he's a blessing and a curse. He lives in his own world on the court. Ill link a well written article on Westbrook from 2 days ago...

https://theringer.com/2017-nba-playo...r-264563760c34

To start with, the article honestly sounds like a person that works with a room full of RW fans and can't stand it ..." The Ringer is a pro-Russ workplace, through and through." ... "He is my least favorite athlete." ... "My distaste for Westbrook blossomed during the 2012 NBA Finals".

As for the targeted blame, that is on both RW and Coach Donovan to a large degree, and on Durant to a small degree. If any team loses your star player who you were essentially built around with zero compensation, it is very likely going to be disastrous. I give RW and Donovan credit for reaching the playoffs and being as entertaining as they were. I give them blame like you said for not developing a strategy to get the rest of their team significantly more involved. Now the pressure is really on because they tried to stick with the same game plan before KD left and this was probably as good it gets ... a first round exit and killer triple-double stat year for their star player. Yippee. But if they don't take the time to figure out how to win as a team, yes they are doomed to medicrity.

As for the rest of the team ...
Oladipo - comparing from his previous year at Orlando, I wouldn't agree that his numbers have plummeted even though they are down slightly. What is most curious is that his minutes were down ~160. Given that he was a full time starter this year and out of necessity elevated to the #2 option, I would have expected a big rise in overall minutes which would should have in turn added to his overall stats like FGA, FTA, REB, STL if not his percentages. Honestly, I think you asked him to be a #2 option when he is realistically a #3 or #4 on a true playoff team, much like Wes on the Mavs. He starts earning $21 million next year, this better be a really good off-season for him.

Kanter - he signed a big money contract, they need to get in his head and get him to play defense to match his offense. This guy has the potential to be a true #2 on this team.
Adams - he has been solid, but next year his pay jumps to $22 million so he just needs more of everything points, rebounds, defense, etc.

All that said, if everyone did what they were supposed to do this off-season, they are still AT BEST a #3 team in the west behind GS and SA with not a great chance of reaching the finals. They would be a legit team against LAC/HOU for the WCF.

MavzMan · 04-26-2017, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

It just really hurts loyal fans of the other 27-28 teams.

So essentially it is good overall for the league because it brings in the fringe fans and the loyal ones continue to watch. If the finals ended up being a Raptors/Wizards vs Rockets/Clippers, I don't see that really being that exciting.
But if it's Lebron vs Steph ... now THAT is exciting. Yay.

Melonhead · 04-26-2017, 01:20 PM

Only thing I disagree with is any blame on Durant. Not saying you didnt read the whole article but I wouldnt not take what the writer is saying based on that one statement. He lays out very eloquently Westbrook as a player.

I think next season you get the same thing from Westbrook unless he looks within himself and realizes. But hes being playing this way ever since entering the league. It was finally on full display once Harden and Durant were gone. I dont see him changing at this point. We will see though.

spreedom · 04-26-2017, 05:57 PM

The Thunder were absolutely mauled every time Russ left the court. Some of that has to do with the quality of teammates, and some of that has to do with the roster composition... Victor Oladipo, who up to this season had never played in a playoff game, was by far the second best playmaker on this roster, and with his type of game he and Russ should never (or at least rarely) be playing together.

I'm not remotely interested in the "Are Westbrook's triple doubles actually bad" conversation (though I don't blame those that are) and this series demonstrated to me the need for shooting and quality depth more than a referendum on his playing style.

OKC is in cap hell already this summer; I think they have $110M in guaranteed salary and $117M if they pick up likely options. If they want to retool the roster around Russ, which should be their priority so he doesn't bolt in two summers, they have to trade at least one of Kanter, Oladipo and Adams. I personally don't think any of those three is irreplaceable. Adams has the most potential as a running mate with Westbrook, but he has to be better at $22M+ for each of the next three years. Personally, I think the Thunder are a better team or at least a more viable smallball team moving forward with Taj Gibson playing the five, but Adams could also make a leap next season and become a top-10 type of center. He has to be if he is going to be worth that kind of money on a team that desperately needs to create some cap flexibility moving forward.

If it was up to me, I'd salary dump Kanter if possible and get whatever kind of cap-friendly assets you can for Oladipo, and sell high on Adams if you get a good offer; to me his value is more likely to decline than increase. With that cap space, you can keep Gibson/Roberson and get in the running for a lights-out shooter like JJ Redick. You MUST put a ton of shooting around Westbrook if you want to be better than 6th in the West, and I think a full rebuild might be the most expedient route to that.

Bryan_Wilson · 04-26-2017, 06:22 PM

I'm not a RWB fan, I just rooted for him over Harden because... well Harden is a piece of shit who is rewarded for being a piece of shit. RWB clearly was trying to do too much in the 4th but reggie miller made a very obvious point during the 4th... at one time they had Adams, Roberson, and Gibson on the floor with I believe RWB and Oladipo. Seriously... to defend that lineup all u have to do is pack the paint and let them shoot jumpers. Roberson is so bad you can leave him wide open, I think him being so wide open makes him even worse than when he's being defended. Like a mental thing, where you basically show the guy up by saying, "we think you suck so bad we aren't going to guard you, and the whole world is going to watch you miss". Him being 3/21 on ft's as a wing player just makes me feel even more certain of that. Adams looked like shit this series also(hell all of their bigs looked like shit). He sometimes didn't even contest shots, gave no effort at all. He also never wanted to leave his man, maybe he didn't trust the rotation to come but he basically decided to give open layups so he could box his man out. That and he's so limited offensively already... good grief.

In the end RWB is an idiot when it comes to closing out games, we watched it time and time again with Durant with him, so when he's surrounded by 0 offensive players it's not a surprise he takes almost every shot. I would like to see him surrounded by shooters like Harden is to see if he would pass it more in the 4th, he did seem to go overboard with no Durant there. I've seen nothing from RWB though that leads me to believe he can win a ring as the best player on a team. All the passion in the world doesn't make up for the fact he has no clue how to play winning basketball when it counts. Because even with a poor roster around him, he still jacked up 18 3's as a guy who is not a good 3pt shooter. And what makes RWB good is not his 3pt shooting. The fact that the Rockets dared him to shoot and he willingly did so, just made him play into their hands and showed he has no idea how to win games consistently to me.

And I give Donovan 0 credit. They don't have much to work with but several times the lineups were very "wtf" worthy. It took several games to make the adjustment to not switch bigs onto the guards every possession. Apparently he has no concept of stretching the floor with the 1 or 2 shooters he did have available as well. Watching Donovan is why I say Mavs fans who are done with RC are spoiled.

EricaLubarsky · 04-26-2017, 09:55 PM

Hard NOT to cheer for the Celtics over the Bulls

Underdog · 04-26-2017, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Hard NOT to cheer for the Celtics over the Bulls

Buck the Fulls.

MavzMan · 04-27-2017, 08:06 AM

I really like Butler but it sure seems like every 5th game or so he will just kind of disappear offensively. And by disappear, I don't mean miss shots because even the Dirk-ster has bad nights. Butler just seems to get into a 3rd option kind of mentality. If he's really their franchise player, he can't be doing that.

EricaLubarsky · 04-27-2017, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavzMan

I really like Butler but it sure seems like every 5th game or so he will just kind of disappear offensively. And by disappear, I don't mean miss shots because even the Dirk-ster has bad nights. Butler just seems to get into a 3rd option kind of mentality. If he's really their franchise player, he can't be doing that.

I still like him and he's the only Bull I actually like. The Bulls just go away from him so much that it's hard for him to find any consistency. Wade just likes to dominate the ball and Rondo doesnt play well with him.

Melonhead · 04-27-2017, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Hard NOT to cheer for the Celtics over the Bulls

I am sick of the new narrative that Rondo is this extremely valuable dude who drives them to wins. So many variables went into both of those games.
It gave Boston a boost, maybe like to jumpstart and get them out of the haze of IT sister's death and the pressure after b2b losses. As a team youre looking for anything to jolt you. Seeing a guy exit for injuries gives you some hope, but you still have to go out and get the wins.

At the end of the day F WADE(what a pathetic performance last night) AND F RONDO(karma is a Bit..)

Melonhead · 04-27-2017, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I still like him and he's the only Bull I actually like.

I do like me some Robin Lopez. I really wanted him here a few years ago. Think he wouldve fit in well with the silliness of the Mavs promos and Dirk's sense of humor.

DevinHarriswillstart · 04-27-2017, 01:30 PM

That damn 2013 draft is just the gift that keeps on giving.

Schroder 10-18 fgs, 5-6 on threes, 29 points, 11 assists, 1 turnover...pretty much couldn't have played any better in their loss vs Washington last night.

BPo001 · 04-27-2017, 09:15 PM

Down goes Milwaukee. Derozen with the big finish to seal it.

EricaLubarsky · 04-27-2017, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

Down goes Milwaukee. Derozen with the big finish to seal it.

Letting Casey go may have been a mistake. One of the most underrated coaches in the league

Underdog · 04-27-2017, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Letting Casey go may have been a mistake. One of the most underrated coaches in the league

It's always hard to hold onto great assistants when they're offered an HC position... Pretty much all of Rick's best assistants have been poached over the years -- Casey, Stotts, even Kidd to an extent (interesting how all of them made the playoffs this year but RC didn't).

Melonhead · 04-28-2017, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

All that matters are ticket sales and ratings. As long as they stay up, then it really doesn't matter about the super teams.

So will they stay strong? I think it takes an economic hit for them to go down. Super teams have been generally good for the league...so far. Casual to lesser fans who don't care which teams win are a faction that I think we're leaving out. They're the ones who will tune in to watch the big boys play.

Around all star break NBA ratings were down 15% collectively. Mavs ratings were down 50% and Spurs were down 43%. I think overall itll be worse next season league wide. Once public sees Warriors/Cavs in the finals again, people will be even more reluctant to watch regular season. I would think by now, its recovered somewhat..

spreedom · 04-28-2017, 12:27 PM

Larry Bird steps down as President of the Pacers. Kevin Pritchard taking over.

DevinHarriswillstart · 04-28-2017, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

Larry Bird steps down as President of the Pacers. Kevin Pritchard taking over.

Weird. Didn't expect that unless I just wasn't caught up.

EricaLubarsky · 04-28-2017, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

It's always hard to hold onto great assistants when they're offered an HC position... Pretty much all of Rick's best assistants have been poached over the years -- Casey, Stotts, even Kidd to an extent (interesting how all of them made the playoffs this year but RC didn't).

Yeah, I shouldn't have said it was a mistake. More like he'll be missed, because we probably weren't ready to dump Rick and replace him with Casey. When he left as an assistant, our defense and intensity did too and what he's done for the Raptors shows that he's legitimately a top-5 coach in the league. We were lucky to have him and happy to see him find success with the Raptors. That isn't a super talented squad, but he has them playing smart and with great intensity.

Bryan_Wilson · 04-28-2017, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Weird. Didn't expect that unless I just wasn't caught up.

He's gettin the hell outta dodge before PG13 leaves and the team blows.