Offseason 2010 Thread - Page 15 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Underdog · 06-08-2010, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

thoughts?

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/maver...iedrins-anyone

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Hell no. If this is the best we can do with the DUST chip, then no, I would not be optimistic about the future. At all. This would be like Plan H.

That sounds about right...

sefant77 · 06-08-2010, 09:22 PM

Worst case move.

Or maybe in a crazy move Don wanna add a Ellis-Terry+pick swap since Curry is the new star there and i still dont see Curry and Ellis working good together.

http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade...radeid=5546412

But this would be allready stealing even if it would help the selling of the warriors franchise. Or maybe Don likes Terry too much.

grndmstr_c · 06-08-2010, 10:52 PM

When thinking about hypothetical Damp-trade proposals I try to ask myself: would the Mavs prefer this deal to one in which they simply ship Damp off to a team under the cap for a 13 million dollar trade exception? I feel pretty confident that in the case of Skin's Biedrins/Rad musing the answer would be no. I suspect the same would also be true of his AK/#9 swap from the previous page.

Rick41 · 06-09-2010, 02:24 PM

Roddy B is back in the Big D.

http://www.nba.com/mavericks/roddy.html

Livestream.

wilmtalk · 06-09-2010, 04:39 PM

I used to like Biedrins but not so much lately. If we would have had him earlier I would have liked the deal but he has spent too much time with GS and Nellie who is a center killer. Perhaps if he were to share time withHaywood it would be OK.

I also wouldn't mind if Damp would play for the min. It would be a good thing. But I mean getting DAMP TOPLAY. But one needs to consider Damps personality. He is the type who always gives the minimum effort. As a back up and for the min salary you would see an even lower level of commitment form him. Also RC is an Idiot and actually might start him since he is still living in the seventys and Damps type reflects his image of the perfect center.

KINGBEEF · 06-09-2010, 04:56 PM

There are only a few people that I want on this team when it's all said and done.

DIRK
RODDY B.
Kidd
Haywood
Marion

Everyone else is expendable in my eyes.

those in caps mean if they're not here, I will never watch a Mavs game again

quietsavant · 06-09-2010, 05:35 PM

Is it July 1st yet?

Kidd Karma · 06-09-2010, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quietsavant

Is it July 1st yet?

Not quite, but it's an early Christmas in the Devin Harris household....

tcat075 · 06-09-2010, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quietsavant

Is it July 1st yet?

Ah, yes, yes it is. Clearly, the date on your computer that says 6/9/10 is just trying to trick you. Don't believe it!

Thespiralgoeson · 06-09-2010, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KINGBEEF

There are only a few people that I want on this team when it's all said and done.

DIRK
RODDY B.
Kidd
Haywood
Marion

Everyone else is expendable in my eyes.

those in caps mean if they're not here, I will never watch a Mavs game again

So if the Mavs pulled off a S&T for Lebron, but lost Roddy in the process, you'd never watch a Mavs game again?

SMC0007 · 06-10-2010, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KINGBEEF

There are only a few people that I want on this team when it's all said and done.

DIRK
RODDY B.
Kidd
Haywood
Marion

Everyone else is expendable in my eyes.

those in caps mean if they're not here, I will never watch a Mavs game again

F Kidd and Marion as far as this goes. Those two are expandable immediately in my book.

Thespiralgoeson · 06-10-2010, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

F Kidd and Marion as far as this goes. Those two are expandable immediately in my book.

I'm inclined to agree.

KINGBEEF · 06-10-2010, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

So if the Mavs pulled off a S&T for Lebron, but lost Roddy in the process, you'd never watch a Mavs game again?

well if you put it that way, so sad Roddy B! We could've been great together but you understand this is business...

EricaLubarsky · 06-10-2010, 08:30 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVN-f...layer_embedded

anyone see this live?

jthig32 · 06-10-2010, 09:08 AM

And the undervaluing of Marion (and defense along with him) continues.

Seriously, anyone ready to kick Marion to the curb is certifiable.

SMC0007 · 06-10-2010, 10:18 AM

Bleh. Defense is good but not great. I don't know what kick to the curb even means. Tons of missed layups stick out more than anything. Anyone who thinks Marion and Kidd are on the do not trade list are certifiable.

grndmstr_c · 06-10-2010, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Bleh. Defense is good but not great. I don't know what kick to the curb even means. Tons of missed layups stick out more than anything. Anyone who thinks Marion and Kidd are on the do not trade list are certifiable.

Whatever 'kick to the curb' means, I'm pretty sure it's a different sentiment than saying 'tradable if a good deal comes along', or even, 'we should explore options for upgrading'. For example, one can make a sound argument for taking either of the latter two perspectives with regard to Kidd and Marion, whereas the first statement can be more justifiably uttered in reference to people who think that Kidd and Marion should be kicked to the curb.

jthig32 · 06-10-2010, 11:16 AM

"Expendable immediately" to me means actively looking to trade for anything resembling fair value.

And if you're looking to do so with Marion you're insane. And if you think his defense was merely "good" you're even more insane.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-10-2010, 11:44 AM

I never felt like Marion ever really got into the flow of whatever offense Rick was putting out there, regardless of his bad misses. He fell victim to taking a lesser role, thus not really getting any recognition for his defense. But the guy didn't really complain at all this season about whatever his role was. Shame that being a team player in this league doesn't get more recognition.

SMC0007 · 06-10-2010, 11:58 AM

If fair value means someone who can hit layups and chipies, playing decent defense, maybe can some 3's here and there. I am on that side of the line in the sand.

"those in caps mean if they're not here, I will never watch a Mavs game again"

^ That to me.. means that they are such an integral part of this thing winning it all, that this team wouldn't be watchable if they weren't here.

Rick41 · 06-10-2010, 12:50 PM

Dirk seems to be dating Martin and Marcus Olsson's sister, Jessica Olson.

Dirk meeting with her family (brothers) recently..

http://dallasbasketballdotcom.yuku.com/topic/45523

The good news is, she lives in Dallas... and Dirk seems happy.

jthig32 · 06-10-2010, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

If fair value means someone who can hit layups and chipies, playing decent defense, maybe can some 3's here and there. I am on that side of the line in the sand.

"those in caps mean if they're not here, I will never watch a Mavs game again"

^ That to me.. means that they are such an integral part of this thing winning it all, that this team wouldn't be watchable if they weren't here.

The original post was absurd, no argument there.

But I think you're just about as insane if you'd trade Marion for what you described above. Marion was an integral part of this team last season, and should continue to be. People forget just how well we defended the elite swing men of the NBA last season, that is almost completely due to Marion.

He's a crucial part of the team. Actively looking to trade him is ridiculous.

And despite his admittedly aggravating penchant for missing bunnes, I will take 12 ppg on 50% shooting from a player that is also giving you elite level defense while guarding players ranging in size from Monta Ellis to Chris Bosh every damn day of the week.

wilmtalk · 06-10-2010, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

So if the Mavs pulled off a S&T for Lebron, but lost Roddy in the process, you'd never watch a Mavs game again?

If it were absolutely essential to the trade then they should do it. But they would be fools if they didn't try to do everything else first. I would consider Roddy next to Dirk as the hardest player to replace. He hasn't even touched his potential which means he is at his least valuable right now. To replace Roddy type of player would be very expensive later on. The quick points are the future of the NBA and everyone is going to want one soon.
The person who is going to be expendable if we got LB is Kidd. With LeBron on the floor Kidds strengths will not be needed as much. Lebron is a playmaker who requires the ball to be in his hands. Between Lebron, Dirk and Roddy who will only improve you have three players who can create shots for themselves and others with the ball in their hands. That would relegate Kidd to a spot up shooter and that would not make up for his libility on defense. I think we are stuck with him because everyone now ( except for his rabid fans) that he is not worth his contract anymore. He could still be valuable but not as a starting point.

mac222b · 06-10-2010, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilmtalk

If it were absolutely essential to the trade then they should do it. But they would be fools if they didn't try to do everything else first. I would consider Roddy next to Dirk as the hardest player to replace. He hasn't even touched his potential which means he is at his least valuable right now. To replace Roddy type of player would be very expensive later on. The quick points are the future of the NBA and everyone is going to want one soon.
The person who is going to be expendable if we got LB is Kidd. With LeBron on the floor Kidds strengths will not be needed as much. Lebron is a playmaker who requires the ball to be in his hands. Between Lebron, Dirk and Roddy who will only improve you have three players who can create shots for themselves and others with the ball in their hands. That would relegate Kidd to a spot up shooter and that would not make up for his libility on defense. I think we are stuck with him because everyone now ( except for his rabid fans) that he is not worth his contract anymore. He could still be valuable but not as a starting point.

i know what you're saying but Kidd is not so expendable as people think. he more than earned what he made this season. he had a poor showing in the playoffs but he a great year overall. i wish that management had gotten a true backup or better yet let Roddy learn on the job 15 mins a night. we would have lost a few more games but in retrospect it would have been worth it w/ Kidd playing closer to 30 mins a night. but Kidd was stellar as was Marion.

KINGBEEF · 06-10-2010, 03:32 PM

honestly in laymen terms: As long as we have Dirk and Roddy B. everyone else can be traded. Now if Roddy's part of a deal that will land Lebron on our team, so be it. But Kidd can definitely be traded along with Marion and Haywood. I would just hate to see those guys go. That's all I was saying. Everyone else on the team I wouldn't have a problem with them being traded.

SMC0007 · 06-10-2010, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

The original post was absurd, no argument there.

But I think you're just about as insane if you'd trade Marion for what you described above. Marion was an integral part of this team last season, and should continue to be. People forget just how well we defended the elite swing men of the NBA last season, that is almost completely due to Marion.

He's a crucial part of the team. Actively looking to trade him is ridiculous.

And despite his admittedly aggravating penchant for missing bunnes, I will take 12 ppg on 50% shooting from a player that is also giving you elite level defense while guarding players ranging in size from Monta Ellis to Chris Bosh every damn day of the week.

Except in the S.A. series. Who guarded Ginobili, Parker or Hill?

Dirkadirkastan · 06-10-2010, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Except in the S.A. series. Who guarded Ginobili, Parker or Hill?

Marion. He was solely responsible for all three of those guys constantly going off all at once. It was all his fault.

tcat075 · 06-10-2010, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

Marion. He was solely responsible for all three of those guys constantly going off all at once. It was all his fault.

When JJ and JET are on the floor, he might as well have been...

SMC0007 · 06-10-2010, 08:01 PM

He has should have done better

jthig32 · 06-10-2010, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Except in the S.A. series. Who guarded Ginobili, Parker or Hill?

Marion guarded Ginobili quite a bit. He struggled the first couple of games but overall Ginobili didn't exactly have a great series.

And to my recollection Marion guarded Parker more towards the end of the series, and he did a nice job.

If you're taking the stance that Shawn Marion is not an elite defender, then you're wrong.

Thomas86 · 06-10-2010, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

The original post was absurd, no argument there.

But I think you're just about as insane if you'd trade Marion for what you described above. Marion was an integral part of this team last season, and should continue to be. People forget just how well we defended the elite swing men of the NBA last season, that is almost completely due to Marion.

He's a crucial part of the team. Actively looking to trade him is ridiculous.

And despite his admittedly aggravating penchant for missing bunnes, I will take 12 ppg on 50% shooting from a player that is also giving you elite level defense while guarding players ranging in size from Monta Ellis to Chris Bosh every damn day of the week.

Speak the truth!!

SMC0007 · 06-10-2010, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Marion guarded Ginobili quite a bit. He struggled the first couple of games but overall Ginobili didn't exactly have a great series.

And to my recollection Marion guarded Parker more towards the end of the series, and he did a nice job.

If you're taking the stance that Shawn Marion is not an elite defender, then you're wrong.

I'm taking the stance of you are over-selling/over-valuing Marion, maybe to make up for a lack of general respect that you think mavs fans should have for his good (not defensive p.o.y. caliber) defense. He's just not that good broham.

Also fwiw, Ginobili wasn't the same after his nose was smashed. It's not like Marion shut him down.

I don't want to get extreme opposites here for the sake of arguing, I just do not agree that he OR Kidd are part of the team you can't live or watch without.

jthig32 · 06-10-2010, 11:39 PM

He's obviously not untouchable by any stretch. But he's an elite level defender. Not the best, but he's absolutely in the upper echelon of swing defenders in the NBA. And I'm glad he's here.

Just go back and look at what Kobe, Carmelo and Durant did against us this year. Then remember how he guarded Monta Ellis a bunch. And others.

grndmstr_c · 06-10-2010, 11:55 PM

Kobe Bryant vs. Dallas: 16.2ppg on 46% true shooting
Carmelo Anthony vs. Dallas: 15 ppg on 40.6% true shooting
Kevin Durant vs Dallas: 22.5 ppg on 45.4% true shooting
LeBron James vs Dallas: 25 ppg on 50.9% true shooting

If you don't see what Marion did for the Mavs defensively last season you weren't paying close enough attention.

Underdog · 06-11-2010, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Kobe Bryant vs. Dallas: 16.2ppg on 46% true shooting

If you don't see what Marion did for the Mavs defensively last season you weren't paying close enough attention.

What, you don't miss this?

Or this?

Or this?

SMC0007 · 06-11-2010, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Kobe Bryant vs. Dallas: 16.2ppg on 46% true shooting
Carmelo Anthony vs. Dallas: 15 ppg on 40.6% true shooting
Kevin Durant vs Dallas: 22.5 ppg on 45.4% true shooting
LeBron James vs Dallas: 25 ppg on 50.9% true shooting

If you don't see what Marion did for the Mavs defensively last season you weren't paying close enough attention.

Lebron vs Dallas game1 he had 25pts/12a/5r. How is that not a great game? Game2 25/6 another good game.

While Kobe Bryant didn't play that well vs Dallas in his defense, he had a major blowout in one of the games and averaged less minutes vs Dal overall.

Joe Johnson vs Dal 29ppg, 2nd highest behind OKC(30), then there is a drop off vs other teams. 8ppg higher than his season avg 21ppg.

Paul Pierce avg 26.5 vs Dal, the highest of any team. His season avg was 18ppg.

D Wade vs Dal, had 1 game at 28/11r/5a

J Rich vs Dal, avg 20ppg. His avg was 15ppg

Thats just glancing at some numbers of other good players without digging to deep. Don't have the patience to see if Marion was out any of those games or if he covered them all game. A.D.D. kicked in.

jthig32 · 06-11-2010, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Lebron vs Dallas game1 he had 25pts/12a/5r. How is that not a great game?

Great? He averaged 30 ppg this season. How is 25 points from Lebron "great"?

Quote:

Game2 25/6 another good game.

His points, rebounds and assists were all below his season averages. He shot 9-23 from the field. He only had a handful of games all year where he shot worse than that. This was a bad game. Decidedly bad.

Quote:

While Kobe Bryant didn't play that well vs Dallas in his defense, he had a major blowout in one of the games and averaged less minutes vs Dal overall.

How many minutes he played does not affect how he shot. We defended Kobe better than ever this year. There is no argument.

Quote:

Joe Johnson vs Dal 29ppg, 2nd highest behind OKC(30), then there is a drop off vs other teams. 8ppg higher than his season avg 21ppg.

I can't really remember, but given the number of athletes Atlanta generally has on the floor, I'm willing to bet Marion didn't spend much time guarding him.

Quote:

Paul Pierce avg 26.5 vs Dal, the highest of any team. His season avg was 18ppg.

No real argument here. Pierce appears to have had Marion's number this year.

Quote:

D Wade vs Dal, had 1 game at 28/11r/5a

8/24 from the floor. Average game at best.

Quote:

J Rich vs Dal, avg 20ppg. His avg was 15ppg

As with Johnson, not sure how much time Marion spent guarding JRich. Not their primary offensive player.

I find it hard to believe that you're really trying to make the case that Marion didn't have a dramatic effect on the defensive end of the floor. It's silly at best.

SMC0007 · 06-11-2010, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Great? He averaged 30 ppg this season. How is 25 points from Lebron "great"?

25pts and 12 ast is not great? really? Your happy with Marions 12ppg and 50% shooting but scoff at 25/12. That figures.

Quote:

I can't really remember, but given the number of athletes Atlanta generally has on the floor, I'm willing to bet Marion didn't spend much time guarding him.

Probably not a safe bet. Why not put your best defender on him? I'm sure he guarded him or tried to. You can get away with a lesser defender on Williams. EDIT*In fact Marion was guarding Joe Johnson in the videos I just watched.

Quote:

I find it hard to believe that you're really trying to make the case that Marion didn't have a dramatic effect on the defensive end of the floor. It's silly at best.

[/QUOTE]

Ridiculous, insane, silly. I've read it all before time and again got anything different? You over-value Marion a bit imo in the same way you over-value Damp imo. Marion is a good defender, I don't think he is as "great" as you claim. I'm just not a big fan of his game overall, I grew a little tired of the lack of offense and missed short ones most would call gimmies. I would still NOT CALL HIM A PLAYER WE CAN'T LIVE or WATCH WITHOUT, which is where this originated.

mcsluggo · 06-11-2010, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

25pts and 12 ast is not great? really? Your happy with Marions 12ppg and 50% shooting but scoff at 25/12. That figures.

i am sorry... but all other arguments aside, THIS is just being willfully stupid.

Lebron James is rated on the Lebron James scale. nobody else is. Period. you should compare Lebron James' stats to Shawn Marions if and when somebody suggests trading the two players for each other (or when somebody tries to argue AGAINST that trade).

seriously.

jthig32 · 06-11-2010, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Ridiculous, insane, silly. I've read it all before time and again got anything different? You over-value Marion a bit imo in the same way you over-value Damp imo. Marion is a good defender, I don't think he is as "great" as you claim. I'm just not a big fan of his game overall, I grew a little tired of the lack of offense and missed short ones most would call gimmies. I would still NOT CALL HIM A PLAYER WE CAN'T LIVE or WATCH WITHOUT, which is where this originated.

Anything else? You mean other than taking apart your post point for point? You used slash lines without any other supporting data to argue that a player had a good game. That, alone, is enough to make your argument baseless.

The majority of elite scoring swingmen saw serious dips in their output when they played the Mavs last season. Shawn Marion is much better than a "good" defender. If you want to disagree, fine, nothing against that (although it's one of the more baseless stances around here in a while). But don't bring completely faulty logic like that post above. You'd be better off just sticking with opinion.