Nerlens Noel

[saclare]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Well of course, but there really isn't anything else to talk about at the moment. This type of stuff at least gets August over with a little bit quicker.

I know I know haha it's a sucky time to be a basketball fan. Not much going on...

[yahyes]

The obvious for Noel to succeed is having a PG like Dennis he can get easy touches.

https://youtu.be/9tmZvGi1R30

This game says a lot about how much his value on the Mavs can be. Facing already a pelicans team with cousins and davis dominating like that says a lot. And it's getting close to showing how cheap Mark Cuban can be. Get this shit over with, cubes.




He's started his best highlights on the Mavs.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by yahyes

And it's getting close to showing how cheap Mark Cuban can be. Get this shit over with, cubes.

Mark Cuban told him to go out and sign an offer sheet and he'd match it. Nobody made him an offer. Blame the market.

$17.5m/year is a pretty generous offer for a guy who has played 193 of 255 games (75%) in his career... Only bad franchises max-out players based on potential alone. Noel hasn't EARNED that kind of money.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by yahyes

And it's getting close to showing how cheap Mark Cuban can be. Get this shit over with, cubes.

yeah...overpaying a young but still unproven injury prone player when no one else is offering money...but yeah, its Cubans fault not to shell out 20+m and ruin our cap space in 2018

Was such a nice pleasant time here without yahyes writing bs. Get this shit over with, Noel - thats the right sentence

[yahyes]

Originally Posted by sefant77

yeah...overpaying a young but still unproven injury prone player when no one else is offering money...but yeah, its Cubans fault not to shell out 20+m and ruin our cap space in 2018

Was such a nice pleasant time here without yahyes writing bs. Get this shit over with, Noel - thats the right sentence

It'll be fine if Dennis does actually have a chance getting RoY. And then the Mavs being able to get into playoffs. Which they really can with Noel at center. That right there says long term. I'd say 18m for 2 or 3 years is fair. Then it'll clear up more when Wes contract expires. I just find it ironic how cubes was sweating over deandre. When there's perhaps an even better center long term in Noel.

[sefant77]

Why its so hard to understand that this is pure business?

No one is offering him shit. He doesnt have ANY leverage. His agent doesnt since Lebron isnt on the team. He is unproven and his knees are allready a semi redflag, so any threat "im going to take the QO" is bullshit anyway and everyone knows it. With his glass knees he isnt walking away from 50+ million.

So yeah, looks like he has a fair offer (15-18m were the rumours from the beginning) on the table. Keep it on the table and just wait. Noel is the one that has to do the next move, not the Mavs. The next FA class is loaded with less money floating around and the next draft is loaded with lottery talent centers.

Its really "good luck, Noel" and not "stupid cheap Cuban"

[yahyes]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Why its so hard to understand that this is pure business?

No one is offering him shit. He doesnt have ANY leverage. His agent doesnt since Lebron isnt on the team. He is unproven and his knees are allready a semi redflag, so any threat "im going to take the QO" is bullshit anyway and everyone knows it. With his glass knees he isnt walking away from 50+ million.

So yeah, looks like he has a fair offer (15-18m were the rumours from the beginning) on the table. Keep it on the table and just wait. Noel is the one that has to do the next move, not the Mavs. The next FA class is loaded with less money floating around and the next draft is loaded with lottery talent centers.

Its really "good luck, Noel" and not "stupid cheap Cuban"

Should I be upset we didn't sign Tyson after Mavs won the finals? That's what I'm really basing it on. I hope there isn't a fall out or something. I'll feel bad for Dirk yet again.

[sefant77]

Bad comparison. We are not contending and we are not "for sure" one Nerlens Noel away from the playoffs. So again no reason to overpay and screw our 2018 max cap. Specially when Noel is going to bend at the end and take it anyway.

Wed moved into rebuilding during last season.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by yahyes

Should I be upset we didn't sign Tyson after Mavs won the finals? That's what I'm really basing it on.

[Mavs#1Fan]

Originally Posted by sefant77

And since Noel has to make up for taking the QO he would need like at least a 80-90m contract next summer....good luck with that

There's no chance the Mavs would play him enough to get the ppg & rpg numbers that Noel would need to make that much money.

I mean why play a guy that is obviously moving on at the end of the year? Zero benefit to the Mavs

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Mavs#1Fan

There's no chance the Mavs would play him enough to get the ppg & rpg numbers that Noel would need to make that much money.

I mean why play a guy that is obviously moving on at the end of the year? Zero benefit to the Mavs

Good point, but I'll take it one step further -- if he signs the QO, the Mavs will probably just trade him... No point in having a disgruntled player poison your locker room all season.

[Underdog]

In response to the rumor that Noel turned down $17.5m per year...


@CJMcCollum: 👀 My guy needs better friends and advisors in his circle

@wilsonchandler: Fuck that. Common sense. Smh

[sefant77]

Marquis Daniels @Marquis_Daniels 15 Std.vor 15 Stunden
Antwort an @CJMcCollum

that's beyond crazy ����*♂️

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Underdog

In response to the rumor that Noel turned down $17.5m per year...


@CJMcCollum: 👀 My guy needs better friends and advisors in his circle

@wilsonchandler: Fuck that. Common sense. Smh

Are they saying he is nuts for turning it down or should stay strong? This is why twitter can be misleading.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Are they saying he is nuts for turning it down or should stay strong? This is why twitter can be misleading.

95% certain that at least Chandler is saying Noel is crazy for turning down 17.5mill

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Are they saying he is nuts for turning it down or should stay strong? This is why twitter can be misleading.

I think McCollum is clearly stating that Noel is nuts, as he's talking about his "friends and advisors," rather than Mark Cuban... And Chandler's response seems a little ambiguous until you look at his career earnings and see that Noel just turned down as much money for a 4-year deal as Chandler will have made in 11 seasons after his contract expires in 2019.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Bad comparison. We are not contending and we are not "for sure" one Nerlens Noel away from the playoffs. So again no reason to overpay and screw our 2018 max cap. Specially when Noel is going to bend at the end and take it anyway.

Wed moved into rebuilding during last season.

That plus Tyson wasn't a RFA. Completely different processes and circumstances, and probably players given age and contributions.

[purplefrog]

If Noel really did turn down $17.5M per year, and I assume a four or five year contract, then he needs to come to his senses. If I am in MBT shoes then I look for a sign and trade rather than signing him to the QO. There are a least a couple of teams out there that have a "second center" with a significant multiyear contract that could be a partner. For example, the Magic have Biyombo with three years and $17M per. There were also rumors the Raptors were trying to trade Valanciunas last season. Both are young (24/25), more durable, and can rebound. Perhaps, they would be willing to take on a one year contract for Noel at $12-15M in order to get out from under the long term deal they currently have. The Magic are currently paying Biyombo + Vuvacic $30M total. The Raptors have two young centers + Ibaka and may not want to pay off the entirety of Valanciunas' contract. Mavs would get a young rebounding center under contract for three years and Noel gets a one year contract that is significantly higher than the QO and he gets to try for the max contract next year. Of course, you have to assume the Mavs see one of these guys (Biyombo Valanciunas) as worth their contracts, but to me it seems better than signing him to the QO, being a potential poison in the locker room, and seeing him walk next year.

[Melonhead]

Yeah they were all saying how crazy Noel is for turning that down.

Personally I think Mavs leaked that out to the press to put the screws on Noel. They are always tight lipped. Could work, or it could push him in the opposite direction...

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Yeah they were all saying how crazy Noel is for turning that down.

Personally I think Mavs leaked that out to the press to put the screws on Noel. They are always tight lipped. Could work, or it could push him in the opposite direction...

Well Noel threw the first punches with Happy Walters and now getting a new agent. People gotta know we had a valid offer and aren't short changing him.

But the unknown is still unknown, and we'll see a lot more of this stuff as Oct 1 approaches. Not knowing the details of such an offer is pretty important.

I do believe the FO made a solid offer around that number though. No reason you trade for him to short change him. But the market dictated his worth, and now his worth is what the Mavs are willing to pay. If he can't understand that, then it is all on him and his agent.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Well Noel threw the first punches with Happy Walters and now getting a new agent. People gotta know we had a valid offer and aren't short changing him.

But the unknown is still unknown, and we'll see a lot more of this stuff as Oct 1 approaches. Not knowing the details of such an offer is pretty important.

I do believe the FO made a solid offer around that number though. No reason you trade for him to short change him. But the market dictated his worth, and now his worth is what the Mavs are willing to pay. If he can't understand that, then it is all on him and his agent.

Right, but short changing to a $25mm/year max contract. I'm not sure his value is there for that, and it is entirely what he's been aiming for this whole time. It's all been a miscalculation from his side, be it agents, friends, or advisers. In the end, he's either playing at the $15-18mm/year mark, or he's QO bound. Risky risky for someone with his injury history.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by purplefrog

If Noel really did turn down $17.5M per year, and I assume a four or five year contract, then he needs to come to his senses. If I am in MBT shoes then I look for a sign and trade rather than signing him to the QO. There are a least a couple of teams out there that have a "second center" with a significant multiyear contract that could be a partner. For example, the Magic have Biyombo with three years and $17M per. There were also rumors the Raptors were trying to trade Valanciunas last season. Both are young (24/25), more durable, and can rebound. Perhaps, they would be willing to take on a one year contract for Noel at $12-15M in order to get out from under the long term deal they currently have. The Magic are currently paying Biyombo + Vuvacic $30M total. The Raptors have two young centers + Ibaka and may not want to pay off the entirety of Valanciunas' contract. Mavs would get a young rebounding center under contract for three years and Noel gets a one year contract that is significantly higher than the QO and he gets to try for the max contract next year. Of course, you have to assume the Mavs see one of these guys (Biyombo Valanciunas) as worth their contracts, but to me it seems better than signing him to the QO, being a potential poison in the locker room, and seeing him walk next year.

Biyombo? With his contract? Im not trading for him, im searching a stick to poke that flaming pile of contract shit away from me.

Its a waiting game for the Mavs. Offer on the table until start of training camp. If he drags it even one day into camp you give him a clear warning. If he ignores that you pull the 17.5m offer the 2nd day of camp and let him learn it the hard way.

Noel needs the Mavs more than we need him right now

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by saclare

Right, but short changing to a $25mm/year max contract. I'm not sure his value is there for that, and it is entirely what he's been aiming for this whole time. It's all been a miscalculation from his side, be it agents, friends, or advisers. In the end, he's either playing at the $15-18mm/year mark, or he's QO bound. Risky risky for someone with his injury history.

And the Mavs would be paying more than market value for a guy that currently has no market value. But yes, I think it's 15-18 or QO from the sound of it. But I think he will wise up and understand that the bird in hand like that kinda money is far better than what will be in the bush next summer.

[purplefrog]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Biyombo? With his contract? Im not trading for him, im searching a stick to poke that flaming pile of contract shit away from me.

Its a waiting game for the Mavs. Offer on the table until start of training camp. If he drags it even one day into camp you give him a clear warning. If he ignores that you pull the 17.5m offer the 2nd day of camp and let him learn it the hard way.

Noel needs the Mavs more than we need him right now

If you are willing to pay Noel $17M, then it seems to me you should be willing to pay Biyombo the same. Biyombo has played 82/81 games the past two years compared to Noel who has played 22/29. Biyombo has grabbed an average of 7.5 rebounds over those two years compared to Noel who averages 5.9. Both averaged about the same in bpg. Over this same period of time both average a little over 20 mpg. I am not a Biyombo fan, but if you are willing to pay Noel that amount in salary, then it seems logical to find a comparable center and pay him the same.

Don't get me wrong, if Noel is willing to sign for reported salary then by all means have him to put his John Hancock on the dotted line. But if he'd rather sign the QO, then trade him. Mavs should say "don't come around here no more" (and sing it in their best Tom Petty voice). If Biyombo is not your guy, then find another deal.

[sefant77]

Biyombo has terrible hands, Dampier hands. That kills our entire offense if our center isnt a lob/dish&dunk threat.

So yeah i prefer to pay Noel the same amount of money with his health issues. Or wait for the 2018 lottery before i put someone like BB on my payroll

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by purplefrog

Biyombo has played 82/81 games the past two years compared to Noel who has played 22/29.

That's actually inaccurate -- last year he played 29 games for Philly and 22 games for Dallas, for a total of 51... And the season before that he played 67 games.

But those still aren't good numbers.

[spreedom]

This off-season is really getting to us if we're saying Biyombo is in any way comparable to Nerlens as a player. I might just stay in bed until our first preseason game.

[purplefrog]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Biyombo has terrible hands, Dampier hands. That kills our entire offense if our center isnt a lob/dish&dunk threat.

So yeah i prefer to pay Noel the same amount of money with his health issues. Or wait for the 2018 lottery before i put someone like BB on my payroll

I'm sure you are correct. I just see a terrible rebounding team that desperately needs help. A problem they had last year and it still has not been addressed. Again, I'm not a Biyombo fan, just looking at rebounding and a willingness to pay a center $17M. I am also not a fan of seeing Noel with a QO in the Mavs locker room and a likelihood he will walk the following season. In addition, there are years of pent up frustration with options at the center spot. The perpetual search for a long-term option at center is at a point of intolerance for me.

[yahyes]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Bad comparison. We are not contending and we are not "for sure" one Nerlens Noel away from the playoffs. So again no reason to overpay and screw our 2018 max cap. Specially when Noel is going to bend at the end and take it anyway.

Wed moved into rebuilding during last season.

Not a bad comparison when Noel is only 23. And could easily be a long term starting center Mavs need the next 5 years. He's not going to have the Parsons dilemma IMO. Primarily cause of his real upside athletically playing center. Knowing his role much better than Tyson when healthy too. So you have to put it on FO. Especially Donnie being able to negotiate the something even close to 20mil. But guaranteeing he will get more next couple years if he takes the Mavs to the playoffs every year.

[purplefrog]

Originally Posted by Underdog

That's actually inaccurate -- last year he played 29 games for Philly and 22 games for Dallas, for a total of 51... And the season before that he played 67 games.

But those still aren't good numbers.

You're right, I looked at them too quickly.

[yahyes]

Does Dirk, Barnes, and Dennis need to call him saying there's a good chance he gets them into playoffs. And that Noel Biyombo comparison is laughable. You're looking at the new age of center in the NBA if Noel stays healthy.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by yahyes

Not a bad comparison when Noel is only 23. And could easily be a long term starting center Mavs need the next 5 years. He's not going to have the Parsons dilemma IMO. Primarily cause of his real upside athletically playing center. Knowing his role much better than Tyson when healthy too. So you have to put it on FO. Especially Donnie being able to negotiate the something even close to 20mil. But guaranteeing he will get more next couple years if he takes the Mavs to the playoffs every year.

No, you dont. And you dont have to pay Noel 20m when no one else is bidding and 17.5m is allready generous. You also dont have to pay him 20m when the QO-threat is laughable.

So blame Noel and not the FO. Noel is the idiot right now. Like everyone says on the internet and social media.

Playoffs good chance? Na, even in the best case scenario its a battle to get trashed as #8 seed. With luck trashed as #7

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by purplefrog

You're right, I looked at them too quickly.

I only noticed because I made the same mistake earlier in this thread...

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by yahyes

Does Dirk, Barnes, and Dennis need to call him saying there's a good chance he gets them into playoffs.

Making the playoffs is never guaranteed, contracts are... And frankly, his financial situation is none of their business -- these guys know better than to poke their nose into another player's contract negotiation.

[yahyes]

Originally Posted by sefant77

No, you dont. And you dont have to pay Noel 20m when no one else is bidding and 17.5m is allready generous. You also dont have to pay him 20m when the QO-threat is laughable.

So blame Noel and not the FO. Noel is the idiot right now. Like everyone says on the internet and social media.

Playoffs good chance? Na, even in the best case scenario its a battle to get trashed as #8 seed. With luck trashed as #7

It'll be all good thing when Dennis can perhaps get his first playoff experience rookie year. Noel is probably just confused. But he's in a really good scenario in Dallas with this roster. He wants to get paid I get. Just like deandre did, when Cubes was all for it giving him how much again? That guy sucks at free throws and plenty other things. Even though he's 7 foot. All we're worried about Noel is health. I see that not being much of an issue when he's only 23. Rehabbed plenty while showing a preview last stretch of this past season. Plus his weight kinda benefits prolonging his career. Reason why he should have been a top 2 draft pick.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by yahyes

Noel is probably just confused.

SMFH, that's why players have agents.

[yahyes]

Originally Posted by Underdog

SMFH, that's why players have agents.

Then it's a good thing he got another agent. I know his new agent is connected to you know who. So that'll make things more interesting don't you think?

[sefant77]

No, because his new agent is also a moron whispering bs in his ears.

Anyway...couldnt care less right now. He either takes the 17.5m the Mavs are offering or not. Then i say goodbye to him and good luck getting similar money somewhere else and find a team he would have the same impact (playbook etc)

[Melonhead]

Twitter is saying Noel signs QO and the 17m "offer" was non existent.

My summer depression has turned into full season depression knowing Noel is gone next year.

[Underdog]

@ChrisBHayne: Nerlens Noel signs 1-year, $4.1 million QO to return to Mavs, league sources tell ESPN. Reported $17M "offer " was non-existent in any form.

@BobbyMarks42: Nerlens Noel will become an unrestricted free agent in 2018. Noel must consent to any trade this season or will lose bird rights.